GITMO and Pearl Jam - a publicity stunt?
Jeanwah
Posts: 6,363
OK, I am just wondering that if you were in Philly, Ed didn't talk any politics. Which seems to becoming the norm since Obama won office. But here's what I'm wondering about...if the band has just come out in support of GITMO's closing and the relation of the closing with using music as torture, one would think it would be on the top of Eddie's mind and he would be voicing his opinion on it, at least since it's recent news, and has really got the Forums talking about it.
I can't help but wonder if it's all a publicity stunt, since Ed's known for speaking his mind...or at least he used to.
I can't help but wonder if it's all a publicity stunt, since Ed's known for speaking his mind...or at least he used to.
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ohhh that philly. the home of the killer set lists.
i wasn't at any of the shows there jeanwah, but the eddie rants seem to be getting fewer and far between, at least judging by the shows i've been to the last few years. maybe he's thinking that most of the fans just want to share in the love of the music.
Simply put: political rants by Ed these days = bad for Pearl Jam business.
I can't speculate about motives, but I never thought I'd see the day where Pearl Jam would release a commercial where they would be bouncing around on stage with Target Bullseyes all over the place. I can understand the exclusive release through the store, but I bet they could have held off on the commercial-- or at least in true Pearl Jam fashion, they should have stated that it wasn't part of the deal (whether it was or wasn't), and should have railed against it publicly-- kind of like when Ed wiped his ass with the Rolling Stone Mag with only him on the cover, when it was supposed to be the whole band. After all, the anti-marketing dollar is very marketable, to paraphrase the late, great Bill Hicks.
Though many of us could agree to dissagree I always can figure where they come out on positions.
As I've stated on the other Gitmo thread, I'm sure many could agree that fundamentally Gitmo should be shut down, the harder question becomes HOW?
I would be Shocked and Very Disappointed if it was a publicity stunt- I just can't fathom that from Pearl Jam.
I promise a way to make light...
What's saved could be one last lifetime
Fair, speedy trials, and throw the guilty into our prison system. After all, any conviction of a true terrorist would result in life in prison, if not the death penalty. It's not like they'd ever make it into our neighborhoods. Besides, if they are able to pull any bullshit even from prison (which I doubt they could), it's better that they are all spread out-- why allow them to be held together and make it easier for them to collude with each other?
Or,
Build a holding facility somewhere deep in an unpopulated section of Alaska
another good point he made is they (the terrorists) should be more worried about being in with the general prison population in the US, not us worried about them being in our prisons.....
that said i have no idea if it's a publicity stunt or not. i think maybe more towards they're giving Obama more time before they start to complain, if they ever do. this year the only thing political i heard him talk about was a local election in Seattle.
however, i was a little disappointed with the commercial and the new album, in fact i still haven't bought it yet and not sure if i will....i thought the albums Dinosaur Jr. and the Flaming Lips put out this year were far, far better
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I also think the Obama Adim has looked at the evidence we have against the Very Worst of the worst known terrorists and realized that some of these people belonged there. These prisoners were recruiting suicide bombers and planning out more cowardly attacks on civilians.
I'm all for a firing line, old west style. Not the most pc, but it would be swift and would get it over with...
I promise a way to make light...
What's saved could be one last lifetime
I know that the "business" of the band has taken front seat lately. And they've gone off course from what they were, or anyway, what Eddie was. The thing that I'm questioning is that if everything in the world is hunky dory now that Obama is in charge (what Eddie wanted), then why even bother with this "Musicians against Gitmo"? Why be a part of this, if priorities now are strictly about business, attracting a new target audience, wider publicity and being happy with the world (nothing wrong with that)? Why did they even get involved with GITMO if they're not strong on their beliefs with it, and we all know that when their opinions are strong on an issue, we hear from them about it?
I heard about them (which here means: their opinions)...from this site...is that not enough...?
and this course you speak of...what course is that...? I thought they were in it to make music and money...
Yes, they are still on the music for money course... Maybe moreso now than ever before.
I think the "course" that Jeanwah is talking about is the band that took ticketmaster to the Supreme Court, who strongly supported a 3rd party candidates (Ralph Nader) and openly spoke out against how the 2 parties were really no different. There's a video out there from 2000, which is an interview with Ed on MTV (I believe), where he talks about the 2 parties being puppets, and uses those exact words.
The course as far as elections go:
Nader (on principle) => Kerry (lesser of 2 evils) => Obama (who they seem to really love, but let's not pretend he's nearly as principled as Nader). Come to think of it, I don't recall any open endorsement for Clinton in '92-- as much as it was NO BUSH '92.
Stance on corporations:
Anti-corporate and anti-ticketmaster, against AT&T for censoring them => partnerships with Verizon and Target.
I'm not judging here, just stating facts. People change... Or maybe the anti-corporate, anti-marketing, anti-establishment image they built for themselves over the first 12 years of their career, was really a very clever, very-corporate, brilliantly-marketed, part-of-the-establishment approach, and we just didn't see it
paraphrasing Roger Waters it's easier to have all these socialist stances when you are a poor college student than when you're a millionaire
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
And you're right. People change. PJ changed. So that's why I wonder if it's a publicity stunt.
Oh, the irony!
he def appears to be on a vacation from his former self.
you're nuts. the lips album was one of the biggest letdowns of the year for me and while i was the guy saying i had no hope for backspacer being any good months ago, it turned out to be the most pleasant surprise of the year!
And I don't see Ed or the band as selling out just b/c they aren't sermonizing every night. This is a great record, what's wrong w/ being in the moment and enjoying the ride? After all the shit they have taken on over the years who can blame them?
By lending the band's name in support of Gitmo's closing it draws attention to the cause.
Hell look at the other GITMO???? thread...I'd say it worked!
Mission Accomplished
I promise a way to make light...
What's saved could be one last lifetime
How true!!!
As you get older and When you become a father and have someone that is more important to you than you could ever imagine, your out look on the world changes....
“If your young and not a Liberal you have no heart...if your older and not a Conservative you have no brain”....or something like that
If they move those terrorist to a prison in America those guys are going to wish they were being tortured with loud music and water boarding, instead of becoming some big bubbas Bitch........will you guys protest on there behalf then or is that acceptable to you?...
How about solitary confinement for them? After all, if they actually played an active role in any terrorist attack that killed multiple people, they are mass murderers. Other people who commit similar atrocities against humanity get solitary all the time.
it's acceptable. as long as they are charged and given a trial, i don't care what we do with them. it's kidnapping people and holding them without any trial or any counsel or any contact with loved ones that i find unacceptable and totally un-american. it goes against everything this country stands for.
by all means, let those that are found guilty sit in one of our prisons and pay for their crimes with hard time.
aaaah...the good ol' days...I always love the "back in my day" sort of conversations....
personally I think people attached the "anti-corporate" label to PJ vs. PJ giving themselves that label...correct me if I'm wrong, but they fought Ticketmaster because they were a monopoly, not because the were a corporation...and with ATT it was fight against censorship....not because they were a corporation...
As for Politics...peoples politics change as the grow, earn, and learn...so they supported Nadar back in the day, does that mean they have to support him forever and ever...? I think this past election he was out of touch and wasted his time...but back in the day, I supported him...
you see, times change...along with time changing, people change...it's natural...
I think folks have some sort of Ideal vision of PJ...and when the Ideal is not met, somehow folks are disappointed...in my view, that's not PJ's issue...that's issue of the person putting them on the pedestal...
i think given the nature of the philly shows, ed purposely kept politics out of it. those shows were to honor the spectrum.
given that the gitmo subject is stickied on the porch, is on the homepage, i don't see it as a publicity stunt, at all. ed and the boys need not talk about evry cause they support, every time they have a show.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Great points about the differences in anti-monopoly, censorship, versus being anti-corporate. Actual examples of PJ defining themselves as anti-corporate would be more along the lines of turning down the Viagra commercial, or them calling out some arena for having advertisements for General Motors plastered all over the place, and having them covered up / taken down. There are plenty of interviews where you do hear Ed talk about corporations as well... I cannot find that one interview I mentioned earlier.
I realize people change... I acknowledged that. It's the amount of conviction in which they make certain statements that they end up being held up on a pedestal-- because in some ways, they kind of put themselves on the pedestal. Of course, some of us hardcore fans give them the boost onto the pedestal. How many times has Ed sung "No More" since Obama has been in office? How many times a year earlier while Bush was in office? The new boss is in, and he's supposesdly promised to listen to us-- then why isn't Eddie speaking, asking, or demanding change as publicly as he used to?
In the same respect, maybe this is their move away from all of the politics and strong stances, and they just want to focus on the music. For one thing, the problem with making very loud and powerful statements is that they make can be kind of damning if your views change. If PJ were to remain politically neutral for a few years, especially through a Republican administration, they would definitely be viewed as a lot more consistent to me. No one's perfect. "I shit and I stink, I'm real, join the club!"
i bought the fixer 7" and thought the song was horrid...the b side, super sonic was better, though. i downloaded the album (as i usually do but still buy a physical copy on vinyl and convert it to a cd later) and was really disappointed, i ended up deleting it to make space not that much later....i heard the album again weeks later on a friend's ipod all the way through twice and while it was good music perse it just didn't grab my attention....i fetl bored
and it has nothing to do with sermonizing or lack of it, i don't think there's a single political song on the new Dinosaur Jr. and i thought that rocked far more than Backspacer. When Backspacer is on i feel bored and my mind drifts, which is the complete opposite with the other 2 albums i mentioned
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
great points. when i saw the Flaming Lips the other month Wayne brought up politics only once....by the way, they were pretty big supporters of Obama on their last tour....however this time he brought up how vocal they were against the war under Bush and told everyone we still have to fight just as hard if not harder to make sure Obama lives up to all the promises he made and how we need to demand the change we were promised....he received some boos and shouts to shut up
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
he probably just realized how much that song sucks. it's so bad i didn't mind that the lolla show available on itunes wasn't complete becos they cut that one
and of course its a publicity stunt. they want to drum up publicity to the torture issue, and did. the smart, correct way. seems obvious to me.
Is that how you describe his opinions on certain issues?: 'rants'?
Personally, I like listening to Ed speak and share his views on certain issues. Not only is it interesting, but he nearly always injects some humour into it, and these 'rants' help to build a rapport with the crowd and individualize every show.
If I wanted to just listen to the music then I'd stick a fucking cd on, or I'd be an Oasis fan who is content to just watch a band walk on, play the songs, and leave. But then I'd be a moron with low expectations.
or maybe i'm still just pissed for hearing an amazing Porch get ruined by a long 'get out and vote' speech mid song at Roo last year.