I'm sorry gimmiesometruth.......I must have misunderstood when cosmo called me an idiot twice in one post.....all you got to do is read between the lines man.
if you would read your initial 2 posts in this thread, see if you can figure out where and why people are coming at you so hard. you posted with that typical right wing condecending know it all tone bashing obama and his wife. that is why i jumped in. you obviously wanted people to stroke your ego and tell you how different things would be, but if mccain had won, things would be far far worse on a global scale.
I don't need to read my initial 2 posts in this thread, I wrote them.
no problem. i was just trying to help you see why people are owning you all over this thread right now. stay in the dark if you want to, i am done trying to help you then.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
well, our president would be the scumbag douche, who voted against a bill to deny defense contracts to companies that deny rape victims the right to seek redress in a court of law......
I'm sorry gimmiesometruth.......I must have misunderstood when cosmo called me an idiot twice in one post.....all you got to do is read between the lines man.
if you would read your initial 2 posts in this thread, see if you can figure out where and why people are coming at you so hard. you posted with that typical right wing condecending know it all tone bashing obama and his wife. that is why i jumped in. you obviously wanted people to stroke your ego and tell you how different things would be, but if mccain had won, things would be far far worse on a global scale.
Obamas wife diserves to be bashed. Our first lady says that for the first time in her life she is proud of the u.s and that was last year and none of you have a problem with that. That's more scarey than her actually saying it. And it's not "know it all tone bashing". There opinions, everybody has a right to have them, although if you're a republican I am starting to wonder.
so that is her opinion. she deserves to be bashed for her opinion but you deserve to be spared bashing for yours???? interesting... i do not have a problem with what she said. have you walked in her shoes? absolutely not. neither have i and i can understand her point. if you can't understand why she would feel that way then you have your head in the sand.
by the way, can you tell that i am not a republican? if you think that i am again, you have your head in the sand.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
well, our president would be the scumbag douche, who voted against a bill to deny defense contracts to companies that deny rape victims the right to seek redress in a court of law......
well, our president would be the scumbag douche, who voted against a bill to deny defense contracts to companies that deny rape victims the right to seek redress in a court of law......
lovely.
ooohhhhhh! so that's why he lost. Now I get it.
say what?
your thread wasn't about why he lost, it was about IF he won the election.
well, our president would be the scumbag douche, who voted against a bill to deny defense contracts to companies that deny rape victims the right to seek redress in a court of law......
lovely.
ooohhhhhh! so that's why he lost. Now I get it.
he lost when he picked palin as a running mate. this vote was just recently. last week i think. please try to keep up. see the other thread.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I'm sorry gimmiesometruth.......I must have misunderstood when cosmo called me an idiot twice in one post.....all you got to do is read between the lines man.
...
Well... the Michelle Obama remark was pretty idiotic. I mean, come on... even you have to agree with that. Because seriously, the First Lady is what... the President's wife. That's all she is.
And the part about drilling for oil... here. It's called a 'Strategic Reserve' for a reason. Our military runs on oil. The Alaskan Strategic reserve is to protect us in case we have to go to war with the big boys... The (former) Soviet Union or China. Trying to snag the Middle East Oil Reserves would be difficult.. especially since it is on the other side of the planet. Russia has the world's Largest oil reserves. And if you don't think that both of those nations could be future threats... well... I guess only an idiot would think that.
So... to use our strategic oil reserves just so you could continue to waste away the commercially available oil in drive thryu burger joint lines because you are too lazy to park the car and walk 20 feet... instead of cutting back on waste is... well... what else do you call it?
...
I think you use these remarks to avoid facing the other thing I asked. You focus on the lamest things and play 'Victim' and avoid facing the fact that your opinions are not based on reality or facts.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
well, our president would be the scumbag douche, who voted against a bill to deny defense contracts to companies that deny rape victims the right to seek redress in a court of law......
lovely.
ooohhhhhh! so that's why he lost. Now I get it.
he lost when he picked palin as a running mate. this vote was just recently. last week i think. please try to keep up. see the other thread.
you know gimme, somehow i don't think that fox news would've reported on that, so i'm not surprised some people are unaware of it.
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g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
I didn't vote for Obama, but I have to believe more positive will come from his being president than from McCain. McCain would not have done anything drastically different than what Obama is doing, but he would have driven the Republican party further into the ground. He was probably less conservative than Bush, who is left of center and what this country needs is an actual conservative Republican president and if it means we have endure a radical administration for another 3 years to wake up and see that, then so be it.
I didn't vote for him either based more on my whole disgust on our American political system and the exclusion of D. Kucinich. A true conservative would never win an election in this country anymore or he could by the appearance of being like Bush left of center.
Just by the way McCain ran his campaign his Presidency would be by now AT BEST a clusterfuck. A word coined by one of our posters here on AMT. Never heard it before but it fits McCain.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I didn't vote for Obama, but I have to believe more positive will come from his being president than from McCain. McCain would not have done anything drastically different than what Obama is doing, but he would have driven the Republican party further into the ground. He was probably less conservative than Bush, who is left of center and what this country needs is an actual conservative Republican president and if it means we have endure a radical administration for another 3 years to wake up and see that, then so be it.
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I believe anyone facing the horrendous shape the Bush Administration left in its wake would be doing the same things as Obama. There was no choice in the Banks and Wall Street. Let them fail and what would the consequences have been? Failed banks with no insurance. and what is Wall street? It is the Capital of Capitalism. With Obama bailing them out... he is trying to save a Capitalistic system. How does that make him anything other than a Capitalist?
And General Motors and Chrysler... let them fail and what about all of those layed off employees? and it wouldn't be just them... what about the smaller companies thay make the steering wheels, tail light lenses, rims, tires and air filters? And not just them... what about all of the retail companies that all of these people use?
There was no choice... we had to shore them up because doing nothing and letting them fail would have been far worse.
...
And remember... we didn't BUY the banks, brokerage firms, insruance and auto companies... they have to pay us back.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
And if we can recall... McCain suspended his campaign until this economic crisis is over.
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How did THAT pan out?
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The sad part of it all... I liked McCain. The McCain of 2000 that knew that the Religious Right (Falwell, Robertson) was not the way to go. The revised McCain, ver.2008, was just a lacky dog following in the footsteps of G.W. Bush. Need proof? Sarah Palin.
I rest my case.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I don't know what the outcome would have been, but I don't believe that bailing out the banks and GM & Chrysler is 'saving a capitalist system.' Letting them fail would have been the capitalist thing to do. I, for one, will never buy a car from one of these makers unless it is a 2008 or older model. Government takeover does not = Capitalism
I don't know what the outcome would have been, but I don't believe that bailing out the banks and GM & Chrysler is 'saving a capitalist system.' Letting them fail would have been the capitalist thing to do. I, for one, will never buy a car from one of these makers unless it is a 2008 or older model. Government takeover does not = Capitalism
so you would have let everything fail? the banks, the auto companies, the stock market?? sorry but if you would have let them all fail i think that may be the most selfish and unrealistic position i have ever read on this forum. and that is saying a lot because i have read a lot of messed up thing on here the last 8 years....
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I didn't vote for Obama, but I have to believe more positive will come from his being president than from McCain. McCain would not have done anything drastically different than what Obama is doing, but he would have driven the Republican party further into the ground. He was probably less conservative than Bush, who is left of center and what this country needs is an actual conservative Republican president and if it means we have endure a radical administration for another 3 years to wake up and see that, then so be it.
i think an acutal conservative republican as president in this day and age would be the most devestating thing to happen to this country, especially the middle and lower classes, in the history of this country. for way too many reasons to list right now.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I don't know what the outcome would have been, but I don't believe that bailing out the banks and GM & Chrysler is 'saving a capitalist system.' Letting them fail would have been the capitalist thing to do. I, for one, will never buy a car from one of these makers unless it is a 2008 or older model. Government takeover does not = Capitalism
...
What would happen to you if your bank failed... and there was no insurance to cover your losses? What would you do if your credit card wasn't worth the plastic it was made of? What would happen to you if your 401K was worthless?
My guess... you'd be in a whole lot of hurt with the rest of us. You wouldn't be buying food, let alone, a new car.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
If McCain won, America would be very much the way it is today! You aren't trying to distract us by arguing that Republicans are different than Democrats, are you? They are the same! Left politicians and Right politicians are both owned by the banks and corporations, the military industrial complex. It's divide and conquer.
The "new" president is carrying out the policies of the "old" president: He is continuing the PATRIOT Act, he reauthorised the yearly State of Emergency in place since September of 2001. He is fighting the same wars. Obama said he would do away with Bush's dictatorial Signing Statements... until he signed one. He broke his campaign promises about taxes and giving Congress five days to read bills before they are voted on.
... we didn't BUY the banks, brokerage firms, insruance and auto companies... they have to pay us back.
The banks are not going to pay "us" back. They robbed us of 23 trillion dollars! I've been seeing the term Banksters in use all over the internet media. It's perfectly apt. And catchier than 'Big Pharma' or 'Obamacare.'
I don't know what the outcome would have been, but I don't believe that bailing out the banks and GM & Chrysler is 'saving a capitalist system.' Letting them fail would have been the capitalist thing to do. I, for one, will never buy a car from one of these makers unless it is a 2008 or older model. Government takeover does not = Capitalism
Just buy a Ford, they didn't take any of our money and are doing fine.
........#1 Socialism and Marxism would not even be an issue. #2 We would not have spent almost 900 Bil. that has done nearly nothing. #3 In my opinion, Unemployment wouldn't be reaching 10%, and if it was, it would be without #2. #4 We would have a first lady that has ALWAYS been proud of her country. #5 A comander in chief that knows what he's doing when it comes to war (Obama is dropping more bombs and killing more civ. than Bush has in 3 yrs).#6 No radical czars running the white house. #7 More bipartisan gov't. #8 Have a treasurer of state that has paid his taxes. #9 Wouldn't be printing money to cause inflation. #10 We would be drilling our own oil.
1) Are you aware of what socialism really is? If you think this is socialism, than you are very misinformed. There's a great article by the guy that ran as the Socialist candidate for President in 2008 stating why Barack Obama isn't a socialist. That might help you form a more rounded opinion than the "Democrats=communist, socialist, facist" bullshit you're being spoon fed.
2) You really think John McCain, who voted for TARP, would have just let the auto industry collapse? What would that have done to our recession? Easy. It's then a depression. He would have done the exact same thing.
3) See number 2
4) Do you always take everything out of context? There isn't a sweeter, more caring person that I've ever met than Michelle Obama. (I'm pretty sure we'd have a pill pusher actually as a First Lady. )
5) Did you just make this up on the spot? Do you think McCain would be DECREASING the troop size in Afghanistan and Iraq? No. He was all on board for the surge in Iraq. Granted, it's made the situation better by some account, but that country is still in total chaos.
6) Bush had more czars, soooo...and what can be more radical than a "faith czar"?
7) I'll give you this one? Why? Because it would HAVE to be more bi-partisan. The Democrats controll both chambers by a large margin. If a Republican were in the White House, there would HAVE to be more bi-partisanship. However, before you start casting stones. What has the GOP congress done to even give the slightest impression to be somewhat bi-pratisan? Nothing. After 6 months, they've FINALLY put together a health care "reform" bill that covers a whopping 3 million more Americans.
8) Your only knock on Geithner is that he didn't pay his taxes? You're quite informed aren't you?
9) I'll admit I have no right talking on this one. I'm not too well read on this.
........#1 Socialism and Marxism would not even be an issue. #2 We would not have spent almost 900 Bil. that has done nearly nothing. #3 In my opinion, Unemployment wouldn't be reaching 10%, and if it was, it would be without #2. #4 We would have a first lady that has ALWAYS been proud of her country. #5 A comander in chief that knows what he's doing when it comes to war (Obama is dropping more bombs and killing more civ. than Bush has in 3 yrs).#6 No radical czars running the white house. #7 More bipartisan gov't. #8 Have a treasurer of state that has paid his taxes. #9 Wouldn't be printing money to cause inflation. #10 We would be drilling our own oil.
1) Are you aware of what socialism really is? If you think this is socialism, than you are very misinformed. There's a great article by the guy that ran as the Socialist candidate for President in 2008 stating why Barack Obama isn't a socialist. That might help you form a more rounded opinion than the "Democrats=communist, socialist, facist" bullshit you're being spoon fed.
2) You really think John McCain, who voted for TARP, would have just let the auto industry collapse? What would that have done to our recession? Easy. It's then a depression. He would have done the exact same thing.
3) See number 2
4) Do you always take everything out of context? There isn't a sweeter, more caring person that I've ever met than Michelle Obama. (I'm pretty sure we'd have a pill pusher actually as a First Lady. )
5) Did you just make this up on the spot? Do you think McCain would be DECREASING the troop size in Afghanistan and Iraq? No. He was all on board for the surge in Iraq. Granted, it's made the situation better by some account, but that country is still in total chaos.
6) Bush had more czars, soooo...and what can be more radical than a "faith czar"?
7) I'll give you this one? Why? Because it would HAVE to be more bi-partisan. The Democrats controll both chambers by a large margin. If a Republican were in the White House, there would HAVE to be more bi-partisanship. However, before you start casting stones. What has the GOP congress done to even give the slightest impression to be somewhat bi-pratisan? Nothing. After 6 months, they've FINALLY put together a health care "reform" bill that covers a whopping 3 million more Americans.
8) Your only knock on Geithner is that he didn't pay his taxes? You're quite informed aren't you?
9) I'll admit I have no right talking on this one. I'm not too well read on this.
10) DRILL BABY DRILL! DRILL BABY DRILL!
you really should come around more often. this post is right on.
........#1 Socialism and Marxism would not even be an issue. #2 We would not have spent almost 900 Bil. that has done nearly nothing. #3 In my opinion, Unemployment wouldn't be reaching 10%, and if it was, it would be without #2. #4 We would have a first lady that has ALWAYS been proud of her country. #5 A comander in chief that knows what he's doing when it comes to war (Obama is dropping more bombs and killing more civ. than Bush has in 3 yrs).#6 No radical czars running the white house. #7 More bipartisan gov't. #8 Have a treasurer of state that has paid his taxes. #9 Wouldn't be printing money to cause inflation. #10 We would be drilling our own oil.
First off, every single one of our presidents, as well as the majority of our Congress have been FASCISTS going back for decades. Fascism = the merger of corporation and state. Name one president, or one Congress that has done anything to stop this-- THEY HAVEN'T. I'm not for socialism at all, except if the people choose it for themselves on local levels, such as having a town fire department. Socialism requires eliminating profit. There is not one federal agency that doesn't serve as a buffer for profit to be made SOMEWHERE. The government itself may be broke (but rich at the same time, since they technically can print all the money they want), but their cronies aren't. Now on to your points:
1) I explained this one already.
2) Bullshit. McCain voted for TARP, and would have had his own stimulus that simply would have went into the hands of the groups of his own choosing.
3) Free Market Economists have estimated the current unemployment closer to 20%, and this phony system of boom and bust created by the Fed would have any president staring down the barrel of 20% unemployment. Why? It has little to do with the president... It has everything to do with an unstable monetary system, which is backed only by CONFIDENCE, and all the while, mainstream media, which is taken far too seriously in this country, is PERPETUATING PANIC IN A CONFIDENCE-BASED SYSTEM.
4) I don't want anyone I know to be blindly proud of anything our country, or any country does. Nazi Germany was full of overly proud people who supported genocide. Call a spade a spade at all times. When we're doing right, pat ourselves on the back. When we're fucking up, stop fucking up and fix it.
5) "A Commander In Chief who knows what he's doing when it comes to war" would also know that engaging and escalating senseless wars (Iraq initially, and now definitely Afghanistan) bankrupts the country, and only promotes further hate towards our country. Some intervention in Afghanistan may have been necessary, but it should have been handled swiftly, legally (declare war through Congress), and the rest of the funding for the war should have been used to improve intelligence against people who want to harm us, and could also be used to help get us out of every other SOVEREIGN nation in which we are not wanted, to help prevent future disdain towards America and its imperialist foreign policy.
6) You're right-- we would have REACTIONARY Czars instead of RADICAL ones. In my eyes, a czar is a czar, and tyranny is tyranny.
7) Bi-Partisanship has been at an all time high for decades! As far as I can tell, both the Democrats and the Republicans may appear to have different stances on some issues, but they always seem to agree that fucking the American people, as well as whoever we're bombing at the moment is top priority! I long for the days of real partisanship where no new laws get passed due to true stalemate. Maybe then we wouldn't have trillions of dollars of infation coming down the pike courtesy of "stimulus," ready to implode the dollar at any moment in the not-so-distant future.
8) The Secretary of the Treasury didn't pay taxes for what were obvious reasons to him. He was in the IMF and President of the New York Fed. Any money that man pays to government ultimately ends up in his pocket anyway.
9) As long as The Federal Reserve exists, and our money is not backed by any kind of hard commodity, and bank notes are issued as official currency, money will ALWAYS be printed, and it will ALWAYS cause inflation. The increase in the supply of money IS INFLATION. Price inflation is a direct result of that.
10) That depends on Congress. Also, just because we'd tap our reserves here, doesn't mean we wouldn't be invading other countries for their reserves as well, because hey, you can never have enough "black gold."
And I see it coming... Before you call me a "lib," I'm not. I voted for Chuck Baldwin in the last election, the Constitution Party candidate. I live in NY, which always goes Democrat in a presidential election. My vote is just as wasted on a Republican, especially a Republican like McCain who DOES NOT stand for the core principles of that party at all.
If there was one benefit to electing McCain, it's that this country would be sick of following the rhetoric and supporting the actions of another rich old white dude, and may have made some real progress in dissenting against the same horrible policies that each president brings us. The president of this country is merely the salesman for the people who own him. Obama is ten times the salesman that McCain would have been, and that's exactly what I don't like about him being my president. I feel half of this country would follow that man into hell if he was directed to bring us there, where people would have told McCain to FUCK OFF already after 8 years of Bush.
i will tell you what you are obviously wanting to hear...
if mccain would have won:
1. everything would have fixed itself and we all would have lived happily ever after
the answers to all of your questions are unknowable. that is like asking what would have happened if jfk, mlk, rfk, all lived complete and long lives.
there not questions.....they're opinions, and pretty knowing opinions at that. I'll admit, McCain was for stimulus but not nearly as much because he didn't want any pork in his plan, and maybe the oil thing is questionable because of the high sulphur content makes it very expensive to refine....but other than that, it's pretty acurate.
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How's that latest 'Smashmouth' CD?
baaaa haaa haaaaaa....it took me a minute, but I got it...
I voted McCain, but I don't think he would of done any better or worse then Obama at this point. I think McCain would have reacted quicker with a better direction concerning A-stan, but thats about it. I was pretty happy about our choices for Pres this time around, and reguardless who would of won, I think America is better off then before. Its still early, the economy and Iraq/A-stan are not simple issues, its going to take time.
we need to make him spell 'babies', then we'll know for sure
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
........#1 Socialism and Marxism would not even be an issue. #2 We would not have spent almost 900 Bil. that has done nearly nothing. #3 In my opinion, Unemployment wouldn't be reaching 10%, and if it was, it would be without #2. #4 We would have a first lady that has ALWAYS been proud of her country. #5 A comander in chief that knows what he's doing when it comes to war (Obama is dropping more bombs and killing more civ. than Bush has in 3 yrs).#6 No radical czars running the white house. #7 More bipartisan gov't. #8 Have a treasurer of state that has paid his taxes. #9 Wouldn't be printing money to cause inflation. #10 We would be drilling our own oil.
#1 no, because we were socialist long before obama took office
#2 doubtful. the first bailout was signed by dubya, so the republicans were as ok with bailouts as obama
#3 the hell it wouldn't. how would mccain have stopped there? there isn't shit the president could've done about that.
#4 i couldnt give 2 shits about the first lady
#5 being a POW doesn't mean you know how to run a war, anymore more than me making a sandwich for lunch means i know how to farm. they both have advisors to make those calls
#6 uh, you're wrong. obama has one more czar than bush did, we've had czars for years. surely you've heard of the drug czar?
#7 hahahahahahaha. that's pretty fucking laughable. the republicans were in charge for 8 years and they sure as hell weren't playing bipartisan
#8 i'll grant you that, it's shitty.
#9 i think the fed can just about do what it damn well pleases on that count, so obama and mccain dont matter
#10 and when that oil ran out, we'd be sitting here with 40% unemployment while china and europe rule the world becos they perfected green technologies first and we'd be sitting here like chumps with a bunch of cars that don't run and no jobs becos we let everyone else pounce on the production of the technology of the future. i'll take our current energy policy any day.
I didn't vote for Obama, but I have to believe more positive will come from his being president than from McCain. McCain would not have done anything drastically different than what Obama is doing, but he would have driven the Republican party further into the ground. He was probably less conservative than Bush, who is left of center and what this country needs is an actual conservative Republican president and if it means we have endure a radical administration for another 3 years to wake up and see that, then so be it.
bush was LEFT of center? the guy that mobilized congress for terry schaivo becos of his religion? the guy that told africa they couldnt have condoms becos it's against the bible? the guy that halted cutting edge medical research becos it's against the bible? the guy that, when a report found abstinence only sex ed didnt work and was a waste of our tax money... chose to cut funding to the study rather than re-evaluate the program, becos of the bible?
he was a right wing evangelical moron. mccain is definitely more moderate, but no way is bush left of center.
Comments
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
well, our president would be the scumbag douche, who voted against a bill to deny defense contracts to companies that deny rape victims the right to seek redress in a court of law......
lovely.
so that is her opinion. she deserves to be bashed for her opinion but you deserve to be spared bashing for yours???? interesting... i do not have a problem with what she said. have you walked in her shoes? absolutely not. neither have i and i can understand her point. if you can't understand why she would feel that way then you have your head in the sand.
by the way, can you tell that i am not a republican? if you think that i am again, you have your head in the sand.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
ooohhhhhh! so that's why he lost. Now I get it.
your thread wasn't about why he lost, it was about IF he won the election.
glad we cleared that up.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Well... the Michelle Obama remark was pretty idiotic. I mean, come on... even you have to agree with that. Because seriously, the First Lady is what... the President's wife. That's all she is.
And the part about drilling for oil... here. It's called a 'Strategic Reserve' for a reason. Our military runs on oil. The Alaskan Strategic reserve is to protect us in case we have to go to war with the big boys... The (former) Soviet Union or China. Trying to snag the Middle East Oil Reserves would be difficult.. especially since it is on the other side of the planet. Russia has the world's Largest oil reserves. And if you don't think that both of those nations could be future threats... well... I guess only an idiot would think that.
So... to use our strategic oil reserves just so you could continue to waste away the commercially available oil in drive thryu burger joint lines because you are too lazy to park the car and walk 20 feet... instead of cutting back on waste is... well... what else do you call it?
...
I think you use these remarks to avoid facing the other thing I asked. You focus on the lamest things and play 'Victim' and avoid facing the fact that your opinions are not based on reality or facts.
Hail, Hail!!!
I didn't vote for him either based more on my whole disgust on our American political system and the exclusion of D. Kucinich. A true conservative would never win an election in this country anymore or he could by the appearance of being like Bush left of center.
Just by the way McCain ran his campaign his Presidency would be by now AT BEST a clusterfuck. A word coined by one of our posters here on AMT. Never heard it before but it fits McCain.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
you are definitely right TA. everyone knows palin is the darling of the fox network
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I believe anyone facing the horrendous shape the Bush Administration left in its wake would be doing the same things as Obama. There was no choice in the Banks and Wall Street. Let them fail and what would the consequences have been? Failed banks with no insurance. and what is Wall street? It is the Capital of Capitalism. With Obama bailing them out... he is trying to save a Capitalistic system. How does that make him anything other than a Capitalist?
And General Motors and Chrysler... let them fail and what about all of those layed off employees? and it wouldn't be just them... what about the smaller companies thay make the steering wheels, tail light lenses, rims, tires and air filters? And not just them... what about all of the retail companies that all of these people use?
There was no choice... we had to shore them up because doing nothing and letting them fail would have been far worse.
...
And remember... we didn't BUY the banks, brokerage firms, insruance and auto companies... they have to pay us back.
Hail, Hail!!!
...
How did THAT pan out?
...
The sad part of it all... I liked McCain. The McCain of 2000 that knew that the Religious Right (Falwell, Robertson) was not the way to go. The revised McCain, ver.2008, was just a lacky dog following in the footsteps of G.W. Bush. Need proof? Sarah Palin.
I rest my case.
Hail, Hail!!!
you are definitely right TA. everyone knows palin is the darling of the fox network
And Obama is the darling of every other.
And Obama is the darling of every other.[/quote]
yeah so what is your point? and how is it relevent to how things would be different if mccain had won?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
i think an acutal conservative republican as president in this day and age would be the most devestating thing to happen to this country, especially the middle and lower classes, in the history of this country. for way too many reasons to list right now.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
What would happen to you if your bank failed... and there was no insurance to cover your losses? What would you do if your credit card wasn't worth the plastic it was made of? What would happen to you if your 401K was worthless?
My guess... you'd be in a whole lot of hurt with the rest of us. You wouldn't be buying food, let alone, a new car.
Hail, Hail!!!
The "new" president is carrying out the policies of the "old" president: He is continuing the PATRIOT Act, he reauthorised the yearly State of Emergency in place since September of 2001. He is fighting the same wars. Obama said he would do away with Bush's dictatorial Signing Statements... until he signed one. He broke his campaign promises about taxes and giving Congress five days to read bills before they are voted on.
The banks are not going to pay "us" back. They robbed us of 23 trillion dollars! I've been seeing the term Banksters in use all over the internet media. It's perfectly apt. And catchier than 'Big Pharma' or 'Obamacare.'
Just buy a Ford, they didn't take any of our money and are doing fine.
Rush and Beck would be on his ass for not nuking Iran yet and not kicking out all the dirty Mexicans yet.
The liberal pundits would be saying the same things that we heard from 2000 - 2008.
I would be sitting here typing basically the same thing, and thinking to myself the same thing; "why do people still think it matters?"
1) Are you aware of what socialism really is? If you think this is socialism, than you are very misinformed. There's a great article by the guy that ran as the Socialist candidate for President in 2008 stating why Barack Obama isn't a socialist. That might help you form a more rounded opinion than the "Democrats=communist, socialist, facist" bullshit you're being spoon fed.
2) You really think John McCain, who voted for TARP, would have just let the auto industry collapse? What would that have done to our recession? Easy. It's then a depression. He would have done the exact same thing.
3) See number 2
4) Do you always take everything out of context? There isn't a sweeter, more caring person that I've ever met than Michelle Obama. (I'm pretty sure we'd have a pill pusher actually as a First Lady. )
5) Did you just make this up on the spot? Do you think McCain would be DECREASING the troop size in Afghanistan and Iraq? No. He was all on board for the surge in Iraq. Granted, it's made the situation better by some account, but that country is still in total chaos.
6) Bush had more czars, soooo...and what can be more radical than a "faith czar"?
7) I'll give you this one? Why? Because it would HAVE to be more bi-partisan. The Democrats controll both chambers by a large margin. If a Republican were in the White House, there would HAVE to be more bi-partisanship. However, before you start casting stones. What has the GOP congress done to even give the slightest impression to be somewhat bi-pratisan? Nothing. After 6 months, they've FINALLY put together a health care "reform" bill that covers a whopping 3 million more Americans.
8) Your only knock on Geithner is that he didn't pay his taxes? You're quite informed aren't you?
9) I'll admit I have no right talking on this one. I'm not too well read on this.
10) DRILL BABY DRILL! DRILL BABY DRILL!
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
First off, every single one of our presidents, as well as the majority of our Congress have been FASCISTS going back for decades. Fascism = the merger of corporation and state. Name one president, or one Congress that has done anything to stop this-- THEY HAVEN'T. I'm not for socialism at all, except if the people choose it for themselves on local levels, such as having a town fire department. Socialism requires eliminating profit. There is not one federal agency that doesn't serve as a buffer for profit to be made SOMEWHERE. The government itself may be broke (but rich at the same time, since they technically can print all the money they want), but their cronies aren't. Now on to your points:
1) I explained this one already.
2) Bullshit. McCain voted for TARP, and would have had his own stimulus that simply would have went into the hands of the groups of his own choosing.
3) Free Market Economists have estimated the current unemployment closer to 20%, and this phony system of boom and bust created by the Fed would have any president staring down the barrel of 20% unemployment. Why? It has little to do with the president... It has everything to do with an unstable monetary system, which is backed only by CONFIDENCE, and all the while, mainstream media, which is taken far too seriously in this country, is PERPETUATING PANIC IN A CONFIDENCE-BASED SYSTEM.
4) I don't want anyone I know to be blindly proud of anything our country, or any country does. Nazi Germany was full of overly proud people who supported genocide. Call a spade a spade at all times. When we're doing right, pat ourselves on the back. When we're fucking up, stop fucking up and fix it.
5) "A Commander In Chief who knows what he's doing when it comes to war" would also know that engaging and escalating senseless wars (Iraq initially, and now definitely Afghanistan) bankrupts the country, and only promotes further hate towards our country. Some intervention in Afghanistan may have been necessary, but it should have been handled swiftly, legally (declare war through Congress), and the rest of the funding for the war should have been used to improve intelligence against people who want to harm us, and could also be used to help get us out of every other SOVEREIGN nation in which we are not wanted, to help prevent future disdain towards America and its imperialist foreign policy.
6) You're right-- we would have REACTIONARY Czars instead of RADICAL ones. In my eyes, a czar is a czar, and tyranny is tyranny.
7) Bi-Partisanship has been at an all time high for decades! As far as I can tell, both the Democrats and the Republicans may appear to have different stances on some issues, but they always seem to agree that fucking the American people, as well as whoever we're bombing at the moment is top priority! I long for the days of real partisanship where no new laws get passed due to true stalemate. Maybe then we wouldn't have trillions of dollars of infation coming down the pike courtesy of "stimulus," ready to implode the dollar at any moment in the not-so-distant future.
8) The Secretary of the Treasury didn't pay taxes for what were obvious reasons to him. He was in the IMF and President of the New York Fed. Any money that man pays to government ultimately ends up in his pocket anyway.
9) As long as The Federal Reserve exists, and our money is not backed by any kind of hard commodity, and bank notes are issued as official currency, money will ALWAYS be printed, and it will ALWAYS cause inflation. The increase in the supply of money IS INFLATION. Price inflation is a direct result of that.
10) That depends on Congress. Also, just because we'd tap our reserves here, doesn't mean we wouldn't be invading other countries for their reserves as well, because hey, you can never have enough "black gold."
And I see it coming... Before you call me a "lib," I'm not. I voted for Chuck Baldwin in the last election, the Constitution Party candidate. I live in NY, which always goes Democrat in a presidential election. My vote is just as wasted on a Republican, especially a Republican like McCain who DOES NOT stand for the core principles of that party at all.
If there was one benefit to electing McCain, it's that this country would be sick of following the rhetoric and supporting the actions of another rich old white dude, and may have made some real progress in dissenting against the same horrible policies that each president brings us. The president of this country is merely the salesman for the people who own him. Obama is ten times the salesman that McCain would have been, and that's exactly what I don't like about him being my president. I feel half of this country would follow that man into hell if he was directed to bring us there, where people would have told McCain to FUCK OFF already after 8 years of Bush.
baaaa haaa haaaaaa....it took me a minute, but I got it...
nice work....
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
we need to make him spell 'babies', then we'll know for sure
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
#1 no, because we were socialist long before obama took office
#2 doubtful. the first bailout was signed by dubya, so the republicans were as ok with bailouts as obama
#3 the hell it wouldn't. how would mccain have stopped there? there isn't shit the president could've done about that.
#4 i couldnt give 2 shits about the first lady
#5 being a POW doesn't mean you know how to run a war, anymore more than me making a sandwich for lunch means i know how to farm. they both have advisors to make those calls
#6 uh, you're wrong. obama has one more czar than bush did, we've had czars for years. surely you've heard of the drug czar?
#7 hahahahahahaha. that's pretty fucking laughable. the republicans were in charge for 8 years and they sure as hell weren't playing bipartisan
#8 i'll grant you that, it's shitty.
#9 i think the fed can just about do what it damn well pleases on that count, so obama and mccain dont matter
#10 and when that oil ran out, we'd be sitting here with 40% unemployment while china and europe rule the world becos they perfected green technologies first and we'd be sitting here like chumps with a bunch of cars that don't run and no jobs becos we let everyone else pounce on the production of the technology of the future. i'll take our current energy policy any day.
bush was LEFT of center? the guy that mobilized congress for terry schaivo becos of his religion? the guy that told africa they couldnt have condoms becos it's against the bible? the guy that halted cutting edge medical research becos it's against the bible? the guy that, when a report found abstinence only sex ed didnt work and was a waste of our tax money... chose to cut funding to the study rather than re-evaluate the program, becos of the bible?
he was a right wing evangelical moron. mccain is definitely more moderate, but no way is bush left of center.