British View of their Nat'l Health System

Gern Blansten

Having now spent 4 years under the wing of the UK's National Healthcare System (NHS) I can only look back across the ocean in complete wonder at my compatriots who have somehow managed to be beguiled and sold against their own best interests with the prospect of nationalized health coverage. At its most distilled, how can guaranteed healthcare coverage be viewed as anything BUT a positive? It is a progressive and empowering perspective that we as a population put our health as a top priority--no matter who you are or how much you make. That really is the psychological or philosophical difference between the US and Western Europe--that healthcare is a right and that the government IS accountable for providing for it's people.

When I first came to the UK it was hard to adjust to the fact that when you went to the doctor, no money was exchanged. No matter what you were seen for, you never had to have your checkbook at hand. I used to go up to the window somewhat sheepishly, because I simply couldn't get it through my head that I could just walk out the door after treatment.
I had a daughter over here. And while I was expecting I received a medical exemption card that entitled me to free prescriptions, dental care, eye examinations for the duration of my pregnancy and up to one year after the birth of my child. ZERO out of pocket expense for a new mother. Children of course are always free for medical, dental, and vision care--up the the age of 16 (and older for full time students). Absolutely ZERO out of pocket expenses for childrens healthcare.

When I was diagnosed with cancer I admittedly wondered if I would find my NHS care to be secondary to what I would have received in the US. I did my research online and found that my treatment plan was identical to what I could have expected in the States. There was no waiting in line, with my treatment starting the week after my diagnosis. Along with my routine care there were big tests like MRI's and x-rays. I went through chemotherapy, surgery and radiotherapy. All of this expensive care, and each time, leaving leaving the hospital afterwards with my bank account intact. Not a single penny out of pocket. ZERO.

The only expense I have had for my extensive medical care is the rather modest 'co-pay' that is charged for prescription medication. It has risen slightly in the years I've been here, but at it's current price of £7.10 it amounts to approximately $11. It's the same price no matter what your medication. And if it's dispensed in a 3-month or 6-month refill, the price is always the same, £7.10.

I can't possibly imagine what my co-pay and insurance costs would have been if I'd still been working in the US, but I'm DAMN sure it wouldn't have been zero. I'm certain I would have had farther to travel for treatment, and had to endure endless paperwork and red tape with the insurance companies during an already traumatic and grueling time of my life.

So how is it that the American political machine has poisoned the minds of it's citizens to believe that they should not be entitled to guaranteed healthcare as a requirement of good government? They use scare tactics to make it seem like HEALTH coverage would be less than what it is under current insurance plans "do you really want the government determining your treatment" (as if the 47 million uninsured could have it worse than having NO coverage???)
.....but is it really any better to have your health care coverage dictated by private insurance companies--whose offices aren't elected and you can never hope to have any significant influence over their policies? Insurance companies already deny coverage for specific treatments. Insurance companies already ration healthcare. They already determine YOUR treatment based on the financial bottom line...Would it not be in everyone's best interest to exert some control over those in power of those decisions, and vote for accessibility AND accountability?

Congress has taken an important first step by providing over a billion dollars for Comparative Effectiveness Research, to better target treatment plans for patient benefit and hopefully cut wasteful & ineffective healthcare procedures/spending. With this tool, it could be a starting point for health care reform and a way forward for more effective health care.

This is from a former USA citizen who is a friend of mine...interesting

scouser tommy

yeah , people complain and moan about it like most things you take for granted but when tit comes down to it we wouldn't swop it for the world

Commy

as 1 of the 47 million without.,..i'd take commie pinko socialized health care over nothing any day.

Byrnzie

It always worked o.k for me.

If you pay taxes then the very least you should get back from those payments is health care. Otherwise, what are you paying taxes for? Where is all that money going?

yogibare

I'm willing to be taxed for this health insurance. There is no way in hell that I'll be taxed any where near what I pay in premiums per year, and for LOUSY Insurance.

g under p

Commy wrote:

as 1 of the 47 million without.,..i'd take commie pinko socialized health care over nothing any day.

Here, here I agree. Part of what kills many Americans in extreme health crisis is the stress/worry over insurance paper work and what kind of extreme hit there will be on one's bank account. The system sucks however we NEVER EVER have any problems sending a trillion dollars on 2 endless wars check that occupations fighting the endless myth of war on terror.

Peace

nuffingman

The NHS gets a terrible bollocking sometimes in the press over here but I think we all know we're pretty lucky.

The only thing I complain about is the unbelievably crap pay nurses receive. A lot of them are on the breadline.

Pepe Silvia

yogibare wrote:

I'm willing to be taxed for this health insurance. There is no way in hell that I'll be taxed any where near what I pay in premiums per year, and for LOUSY Insurance.

exactly, you pay a ridiculous bi-weekly premium, that goes up ever year, on top of deductibles, copays, limits on what they will cover and how much they will cover it.....

the last job i had insurance with got it from blue cross & blue shield. forgot how much i paid each check but the only options were single and family. on top of that we had a deductible of $1,500 for a single person and $3,000 for a family. we ALSO had a deductible towards prescriptions for the same amount before they would cover anything. but it gets better, even if you managed to spend $1,500 or $3,000 on prescriptions in less than a year, because you can't carry it over, if i spent $1,400 that year it would be meaningless come January, we STILL had to pay full price for drugs and submit the receipt to the insurance company and wait a few weeks to be mailed a check reimbursing you.

what a scam. i don't see how that is easier than having a system the pharmacy can check and say 'they will cover this much', it seems like it's more work for the insurance company to hire someone to process these claims then have a check printed and mailed out. i'm sure they were just hoping it would be like rebated where people lose things or don't mail it out in time

WaveCameCrashin

g under p wrote:

Commy wrote:

as 1 of the 47 million without.,..i'd take commie pinko socialized health care over nothing any day.

Here, here I agree. Part of what kills many Americans in extreme health crisis is the stress/worry over insurance paper work and what kind of extreme hit there will be on one's bank account. The system sucks however we NEVER EVER have any problems sending a trillion dollars on 2 endless wars check that occupations fighting the endless myth of war on terror.

Peace

Oh give me a break with comparing the wars with Health care reform. that's a stupid comparrison and you know it. I have never met anybody who thinks that. You wanna drive down the cost of Health care ? It's simple... Let consumers purchase Health Ins. across state lines and let the FREE MARKET do the rest. Prices would plummet over night. But Instead we have a bill that's 1,900 pages and all i'ts going to do is force us to buy Ins through the Gov. sooner or later.
And if you honestly think our Gov can run our Health care system you are sadly mistaken and are in for a rude awakening..

gimmesometruth27

if we had not spent trillions in those wars we could have given everyone health insurance for no out of pocket money and had money left for other things. that is not a stupid comparison. it is only stupid if you are pro war and anti government, which is a paradox in itself because it is government money funding these occupations. by selling insurance across state lines prices are not going to plummet overnight.

Byrnzie

prfctlefts wrote:

And if you honestly think our Gov can run our Health care system you are sadly mistaken and are in for a rude awakening..

Our government, along with governments all over the world, have done a good enough job of running our health care system, so why should yours be any different? What are you so afraid of?

brandon10

Byrnzie wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

And if you honestly think our Gov can run our Health care system you are sadly mistaken and are in for a rude awakening..

Our government, along with governments all over the world, have done a good enough job of running our health care system, so why should yours be any different? What are you so afraid of?

Ya, it's pretty funny how Arericans are always "were number 1!, were number 1!". But as soon as it becomes about the government running health care, it becomes "we suck, we can't do it".

Commy

prfctlefts wrote:

g under p wrote:

Commy wrote:

as 1 of the 47 million without.,..i'd take commie pinko socialized health care over nothing any day.

Here, here I agree. Part of what kills many Americans in extreme health crisis is the stress/worry over insurance paper work and what kind of extreme hit there will be on one's bank account. The system sucks however we NEVER EVER have any problems sending a trillion dollars on 2 endless wars check that occupations fighting the endless myth of war on terror.

Peace

Oh give me a break with comparing the wars with Health care reform. that's a stupid comparrison and you know it. I have never met anybody who thinks that. You wanna drive down the cost of Health care ? It's simple... Let consumers purchase Health Ins. across state lines and let the FREE MARKET do the rest. Prices would plummet over night. But Instead we have a bill that's 1,900 pages and all i'ts going to do is force us to buy Ins through the Gov. sooner or later.
And if you honestly think our Gov can run our Health care system you are sadly mistaken and are in for a rude awakening..

not to mention the hundreds of billions in corporate handouts every year.

its a valid comparison prfectlefts.


many people don't mind their money being used to take lives, but when it comes to saving them they're up in arms. its sign of how indoctrinated americans really are.


in the US its ok to kill, but not to care.

Heatherj43

I love when people who have national health care tell americans it isn't this big scary thing that doesn't work. I am an american and I want us to have national health care. We already do in some forms, like medicare and medicaid, which both work wonderfully. I am sick of hearing how they think the U.S. gov. will screw it up, etc. I get medicare, along with prescriotion coverage. Both work great, way better than when I had Blue Cross/Blue Shield or H.A.P. When they first put the prescription paln into works, it did suck. It had a few kinks that had to be worked out, but it didn't take them long at all to get it almost perfect. I say "almost" because for me it works 100 % correct, but there may be a few people for whom it hasn't worked so well for.

I could go on and on about the insurances I paid for through the years and how they do not work and how they can't hold a candle to medicare, but I won't for now. I just hope we do get it and then the proof will be in the pudding.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Canada's healthcare system is socialized, so it's free. But you have to wait 18 hours in the hospital to get a knife taken out of your back.

Socialized healthcare, at least in Canada, has it's flaws, for sure, but it's still a much better option than NO healthcare.

I can only guess that it's the selfish SOB's that have their own insurance through work or can afford it privately that whine about having to pay for the common man's healthcare. Every man, woman and child deserves healthcare. Healthcare based on your bank account is ludicrous. There can be no debate on that, IMHO.

In Canada, no one that I know bitches about some homeless guy getting treatment, saying that he doesn't deserve it. How callous.

And yes, the war/healthcare comparison is valid, because it's about fiscal prioritizing, and the US government is worried more about global perception than local health. It's absolutely dumb and I sometimes can't even believe there is even a debate about it.

TriumphantAngel

prfctlefts wrote:

Oh give me a break with comparing the wars with Health care reform. that's a stupid comparrison and you know it. I have never met anybody who thinks that.

just because you have not met anyone who thinks like that, i can assure you that does not make you right, and it's far from a stupid comparison. i work in the health industry, and know plenty of people who think like that because we are exposed everyday to the clusterfuck that we operate under now.

if we stop war and occupation, then that = more money for health care, employment and education.

it's not rocket science.

polaris_x

health care and war - where are the similarities? ... profit for large corporations who have significant influence in gov't policy ... corporations that pay out disproportionate compensation to executives while really not providing a service to the taxpayers ...

surfanddestroy

I hate our British health care and am so fed up with having to pay for something I do not receive.

VINNY GOOMBA

When will we get health care that works in this country? The answer is: whenever the empire collapses. Whatever country replaces our empire status will surely be the ones whose health care system goes down the toilet.

Let's face it, our country funds EVERYTHING the government does with AIR. Nothing. Totally fiat. Created on a computer screen courtesy of the Federal Reserve, and whatever dealings they make with other foreign central banks. This process pays for the wars, it pays for welfare, for roads to be paved, for the post office, everything really. Collecting taxes is more of an attempt curb the effects of inflation than it actually does pay for any of the services that we expect from government-- yet simultaneously, it drives prices up, as businesses deal with a higher bottomline because we are all so heavily taxed for money that took no effort to create. My point is, we "print" money for EVERYTHING, and have proven time and time again that we don't care, or are ingorant to the fact that our entire economy is a house of cards ready to collapse because of it. Why would paying for everyone's medical bills through the same process be such a big deal?

The answer is simple: The people who run our country do not care about us, as it is not in their best interests to do so. Our government is THE MOB (not in the literal La Cosa Nostra sense, but their operations are identical), and they only protect and take care of their top earners: No bid construction and defense contracts, and major bank bailouts are glaring examples. Paying for everyone's health care on top of that would probably be the 10-ton anvil that broke the already-stressed camel's back (it won't be cheap-- it would probably take a trillion dollars annually), and would probably force the rest of the world to lose confidence in our currency (and thus our empire) and dump it completely. Believe it or not, there is more confidence, and thus more strength in this phony confidence-based system when the mob boss rules with an iron fist. Showing compassion for our own people or for anyone else, coupled with another few trillion dollars created from thin air are two signs of weakness that the family cannot afford to show its rivals. For these reasons, it makes more sense to further expand the empire, than to concentrate our money and our resources where it is best for us.

I don't favor a universal health care system-- but I'd rather we end the empire and inject money into our economy through a "medical-industrial complex" than the current military-industrial complex. However, I say this with about as much enthusiasm as a staunch Libertarian (or any third party person) having to choose between a Democrat and a Republican. Don't get me wrong, as Commy said, I'd rather see money going to help people rather than hurt them, but I also feel that this is just another place where we're going to get milked-- simply because an un-ending phony money supply will still be available, and it will eventually be unsustainable.

I do believe that the free-market could and should deliver the best possible care to the people of this country if it were actually allowed to operate. To make this happen, we would have to end the empire, realize that most practices by insurance and banking are actually fraudulent-- and should be outlawed, tort reform is enacted, and income taxes should be abolished-- or if not abolished, medical expenses should be 100% tax-deductible.

Gern Blansten

surfanddestroy wrote:

I hate our British health care and am so fed up with having to pay for something I do not receive.

yeah....I hate paying for roads that I never drive on too

we should do away with that

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Kel Varnsen

surfanddestroy wrote:

I hate our British health care and am so fed up with having to pay for something I do not receive.

You kind of do recieve something though. I mean I live in Canada, and I go to the doctor maybe once a year. So if you look at it your way yes what I pay totally outweighs what I receive. On the other hand I know if I get in a car accident or something else where I require emergency care, I know that there are hospitals and doctors and such available and ready to treat me. So in that respect I don't mind paying to ensure that when I need them those people will be there. I mean in one way it is kind of like paying the cable bill. I don't watch TV 24 hours a day, but I like knowing that when I turn my TV on that service will be provided to me.

Gern Blansten

Kel Varnsen wrote:

surfanddestroy wrote:

I hate our British health care and am so fed up with having to pay for something I do not receive.

You kind of do recieve something though. I mean I live in Canada, and I go to the doctor maybe once a year. So if you look at it your way yes what I pay totally outweighs what I receive. On the other hand I know if I get in a car accident or something else where I require emergency care, I know that there are hospitals and doctors and such available and ready to treat me. So in that respect I don't mind paying to ensure that when I need them those people will be there. I mean in one way it is kind of like paying the cable bill. I don't watch TV 24 hours a day, but I like knowing that when I turn my TV on that service will be provided to me.

exactly....health care is inevitable at some point

surfanddestroy

Gern Blansten wrote:

yeah....I hate paying for roads that I never drive on too

we should do away with that

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I pay my national insurance every month and its not cheap, I have anthma so I have to pay for my prescription every month, it took me years to get a dentist on the NHS and now when I go I have to pay each visit, I moved home and have now received a letter from my doctor saying I am now outside of his area and will have to find myself a new doctor. This is easier said than done as they are all full and therefore not taking on new patients.

I suggest you get your facts before making stupid :roll: at me.

Shawshank

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

When will we get health care that works in this country? The answer is: whenever the empire collapses. Whatever country replaces our empire status will surely be the ones whose health care system goes down the toilet.

Let's face it, our country funds EVERYTHING the government does with AIR. Nothing. Totally fiat. Created on a computer screen courtesy of the Federal Reserve, and whatever dealings they make with other foreign central banks. This process pays for the wars, it pays for welfare, for roads to be paved, for the post office, everything really. Collecting taxes is more of an attempt curb the effects of inflation than it actually does pay for any of the services that we expect from government-- yet simultaneously, it drives prices up, as businesses deal with a higher bottomline because we are all so heavily taxed for money that took no effort to create. My point is, we "print" money for EVERYTHING, and have proven time and time again that we don't care, or are ingorant to the fact that our entire economy is a house of cards ready to collapse because of it. Why would paying for everyone's medical bills through the same process be such a big deal?

The answer is simple: The people who run our country do not care about us, as it is not in their best interests to do so. Our government is THE MOB (not in the literal La Cosa Nostra sense, but their operations are identical), and they only protect and take care of their top earners: No bid construction and defense contracts, and major bank bailouts are glaring examples. Paying for everyone's health care on top of that would probably be the 10-ton anvil that broke the already-stressed camel's back (it won't be cheap-- it would probably take a trillion dollars annually), and would probably force the rest of the world to lose confidence in our currency (and thus our empire) and dump it completely. Believe it or not, there is more confidence, and thus more strength in this phony confidence-based system when the mob boss rules with an iron fist. Showing compassion for our own people or for anyone else, coupled with another few trillion dollars created from thin air are two signs of weakness that the family cannot afford to show its rivals. For these reasons, it makes more sense to further expand the empire, than to concentrate our money and our resources where it is best for us.

I don't favor a universal health care system-- but I'd rather we end the empire and inject money into our economy through a "medical-industrial complex" than the current military-industrial complex. However, I say this with about as much enthusiasm as a staunch Libertarian (or any third party person) having to choose between a Democrat and a Republican. Don't get me wrong, as Commy said, I'd rather see money going to help people rather than hurt them, but I also feel that this is just another place where we're going to get milked-- simply because an un-ending phony money supply will still be available, and it will eventually be unsustainable.

I do believe that the free-market could and should deliver the best possible care to the people of this country if it were actually allowed to operate. To make this happen, we would have to end the empire, realize that most practices by insurance and banking are actually fraudulent-- and should be outlawed, tort reform is enacted, and income taxes should be abolished-- or if not abolished, medical expenses should be 100% tax-deductible.

Absolutely DEAD ON with that. People love the dream of having "free" health care, and unfortunately they are under the delusion we can afford it. It's not that we actually can't afford it, it's that our government is so corrupt (on both sides) that their actions will not allow us to afford it. If you want to enact a trillion dollar health care system, find a trillion dollars in our budget to cut. As a father of a child who has a heart condition that prevents him from being insured, trust me, I know how badly health insurance is needed by many people in this country. I'm going to end up paying for my son's heart surgery out of my own pocket in the next year or so. I'm just fortunate enough that I'm able to do so. I can't imagine the stress of a family that has no chance of being able to afford it.

This bullshit money factory, known as the Fed, that has increased our money supply by over 120% in just the last year, is going to destroy us. I'm sure that's good news for some of you, but I happen to love this country, just not the people running it (and I'm not talking about Obama, this goes way back many administrations, especially Bush with his infinite increase in spending). We had some of our worst inflation back when Carter was president, and interest rates were going crazy. Banks use those interest rates to help control that flow of money, and pull some of that excess cash out of circulation which helps keep the dollar strong. When Carter was president we only had a 13% increase in the money supply. What the hell do people think is going to happen when this new influx finally starts to hit in the next year or two? They won't be able to raise interest rates enough.

nuffingman

surfanddestroy wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

yeah....I hate paying for roads that I never drive on too

we should do away with that

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I pay my national insurance every month and its not cheap, I have anthma so I have to pay for my prescription every month, it took me years to get a dentist on the NHS and now when I go I have to pay each visit, I moved home and have now received a letter from my doctor saying I am now outside of his area and will have to find myself a new doctor. This is easier said than done as they are all full and therefore not taking on new patients.

I suggest you get your facts before making stupid :roll: at me.

Yeah I agree our system isn't perfect, but if you have a bad accident or became seriously ill you'll be taken in and cared for. They won't be asking for insurance details or presenting you with a bill.

The NHS can't be totally free it has to be paid for somehow, that's why we pay National Insurance and Income Tax. I'd rather our system than many others.

Re going to the dentist and paying each visit, try going private as I once did and seeing how much it costs.

surfanddestroy

nuffingman wrote:

Yeah I agree our system isn't perfect, but if you have a bad accident or became seriously ill you'll be taken in and cared for. They won't be asking for insurance details or presenting you with a bill.

The NHS can't be totally free it has to be paid for somehow, that's why we pay National Insurance and Income Tax. I'd rather our system than many others.

Re going to the dentist and paying each visit, try going private as I once did and seeing how much it costs.

I also have health and life insurance as I had to take them out when I got my mortgage.

I am not asking for it to be totally free but if I am paying as much as I am for NI and Income Tax then I expect to get my prescriptions free.

I know going private is expencsive but I shouldn't have to go down that route and shouldnt have to pay each visit as I am already paying for it through my NI & Income Tax.

nuffingman

surfanddestroy wrote:

I also have health and life insurance as I had to take them out when I got my mortgage.

I am not asking for it to be totally free but if I am paying as much as I am for NI and Income Tax then I expect to get my prescriptions free.

I know going private is expencsive but I shouldn't have to go down that route and shouldnt have to pay each visit as I am already paying for it through my NI & Income Tax.

Drug companies are in the business for profit. If you had to pay for some of the drugs at the correct rate you'd be paying a lot more than £7.10. Your NI & Income Tax isn't covering it all.

If we had all our prescription and dental charges free NI would rocket.

Having to pay for health insurance for your mortgage is a bummer but that's not anything to do with the NHS.

Gern Blansten

surfanddestroy wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

yeah....I hate paying for roads that I never drive on too

we should do away with that

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I pay my national insurance every month and its not cheap, I have anthma so I have to pay for my prescription every month, it took me years to get a dentist on the NHS and now when I go I have to pay each visit, I moved home and have now received a letter from my doctor saying I am now outside of his area and will have to find myself a new doctor. This is easier said than done as they are all full and therefore not taking on new patients.

I suggest you get your facts before making stupid :roll: at me.

come on....how much do you pay for your prescription?

I pay $950/month for insurance with a $5,500 deductible...

Heatherj43

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

When will we get health care that works in this country? The answer is: whenever the empire collapses. Whatever country replaces our empire status will surely be the ones whose health care system goes down the toilet.

Let's face it, our country funds EVERYTHING the government does with AIR. Nothing. Totally fiat. Created on a computer screen courtesy of the Federal Reserve, and whatever dealings they make with other foreign central banks. This process pays for the wars, it pays for welfare, for roads to be paved, for the post office, everything really. Collecting taxes is more of an attempt curb the effects of inflation than it actually does pay for any of the services that we expect from government-- yet simultaneously, it drives prices up, as businesses deal with a higher bottomline because we are all so heavily taxed for money that took no effort to create. My point is, we "print" money for EVERYTHING, and have proven time and time again that we don't care, or are ingorant to the fact that our entire economy is a house of cards ready to collapse because of it. Why would paying for everyone's medical bills through the same process be such a big deal?

The answer is simple: The people who run our country do not care about us, as it is not in their best interests to do so. Our government is THE MOB (not in the literal La Cosa Nostra sense, but their operations are identical), and they only protect and take care of their top earners: No bid construction and defense contracts, and major bank bailouts are glaring examples. Paying for everyone's health care on top of that would probably be the 10-ton anvil that broke the already-stressed camel's back (it won't be cheap-- it would probably take a trillion dollars annually), and would probably force the rest of the world to lose confidence in our currency (and thus our empire) and dump it completely. Believe it or not, there is more confidence, and thus more strength in this phony confidence-based system when the mob boss rules with an iron fist. Showing compassion for our own people or for anyone else, coupled with another few trillion dollars created from thin air are two signs of weakness that the family cannot afford to show its rivals. For these reasons, it makes more sense to further expand the empire, than to concentrate our money and our resources where it is best for us.

I don't favor a universal health care system-- but I'd rather we end the empire and inject money into our economy through a "medical-industrial complex" than the current military-industrial complex. However, I say this with about as much enthusiasm as a staunch Libertarian (or any third party person) having to choose between a Democrat and a Republican. Don't get me wrong, as Commy said, I'd rather see money going to help people rather than hurt them, but I also feel that this is just another place where we're going to get milked-- simply because an un-ending phony money supply will still be available, and it will eventually be unsustainable.

I do believe that the free-market could and should deliver the best possible care to the people of this country if it were actually allowed to operate. To make this happen, we would have to end the empire, realize that most practices by insurance and banking are actually fraudulent-- and should be outlawed, tort reform is enacted, and income taxes should be abolished-- or if not abolished, medical expenses should be 100% tax-deductible.

I find it interesting that you said we should change from a military-industrial complex to a medical-industrial complex. In the years Reagan was president he put more money into the military than all the other presidents combined from the beginning of the U.S.A. That is ridiculous. Many say he had to because of the cold war. Well, I was raised during the time we were told the Russians were going to bomb us and they had missiles that could come all the way from there to various locations here. Also, that we had the same missiles and it was just a matter of who pushed some button first. We would have bomb drills at school, where we had to "hide like a turtle", curl up in a ball under our desks.
This was in case the bombs from Russia were coming. As a child I see nothing "cold" about the war they threatened us with. Oh, and it was my gov. threatening us.
I knew where all the bomb shelters were and many people had their own in their yard.
That was all B.S. and an excuse to put so much money into the military. I hate that today we call it the "cold war". The U.S. had their citizens scared to death.
Now I have learned that Russia was so poor that they couldn't keep up with the maintenance of their weapons and couldn't attack us.
The money we put into the military could easily pay for what we really need as far as a military structure and pay for universal health care.

_Crazy_Mary_

Here's how I see the proposed national healthcare in America.
Obama has said it will be budget neutral and won't cost us anything extra. How can you give healthcare to everybody and it not cost anything? Unless you force the doctor's to accept less pay in which case the doctor's will give up their practice. Then we have less doctors and more patients. How can it work?

Shawshank

_Crazy_Mary_ wrote:

Here's how I see the proposed national healthcare in America.
Obama has said it will be budget neutral and won't cost us anything extra. How can you give healthcare to everybody and it not cost anything? Unless you force the doctor's to accept less pay in which case the doctor's will give up their practice. Then we have less doctors and more patients. How can it work?

Another valid point that many people choose to ignore for the most part.