British View of their Nat'l Health System

Gern Blansten

Kel Varnsen wrote:

surfanddestroy wrote:

I hate our British health care and am so fed up with having to pay for something I do not receive.

You kind of do recieve something though. I mean I live in Canada, and I go to the doctor maybe once a year. So if you look at it your way yes what I pay totally outweighs what I receive. On the other hand I know if I get in a car accident or something else where I require emergency care, I know that there are hospitals and doctors and such available and ready to treat me. So in that respect I don't mind paying to ensure that when I need them those people will be there. I mean in one way it is kind of like paying the cable bill. I don't watch TV 24 hours a day, but I like knowing that when I turn my TV on that service will be provided to me.

exactly....health care is inevitable at some point

surfanddestroy

Gern Blansten wrote:

yeah....I hate paying for roads that I never drive on too

we should do away with that

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I pay my national insurance every month and its not cheap, I have anthma so I have to pay for my prescription every month, it took me years to get a dentist on the NHS and now when I go I have to pay each visit, I moved home and have now received a letter from my doctor saying I am now outside of his area and will have to find myself a new doctor. This is easier said than done as they are all full and therefore not taking on new patients.

I suggest you get your facts before making stupid :roll: at me.

Shawshank

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

When will we get health care that works in this country? The answer is: whenever the empire collapses. Whatever country replaces our empire status will surely be the ones whose health care system goes down the toilet.

Let's face it, our country funds EVERYTHING the government does with AIR. Nothing. Totally fiat. Created on a computer screen courtesy of the Federal Reserve, and whatever dealings they make with other foreign central banks. This process pays for the wars, it pays for welfare, for roads to be paved, for the post office, everything really. Collecting taxes is more of an attempt curb the effects of inflation than it actually does pay for any of the services that we expect from government-- yet simultaneously, it drives prices up, as businesses deal with a higher bottomline because we are all so heavily taxed for money that took no effort to create. My point is, we "print" money for EVERYTHING, and have proven time and time again that we don't care, or are ingorant to the fact that our entire economy is a house of cards ready to collapse because of it. Why would paying for everyone's medical bills through the same process be such a big deal?

The answer is simple: The people who run our country do not care about us, as it is not in their best interests to do so. Our government is THE MOB (not in the literal La Cosa Nostra sense, but their operations are identical), and they only protect and take care of their top earners: No bid construction and defense contracts, and major bank bailouts are glaring examples. Paying for everyone's health care on top of that would probably be the 10-ton anvil that broke the already-stressed camel's back (it won't be cheap-- it would probably take a trillion dollars annually), and would probably force the rest of the world to lose confidence in our currency (and thus our empire) and dump it completely. Believe it or not, there is more confidence, and thus more strength in this phony confidence-based system when the mob boss rules with an iron fist. Showing compassion for our own people or for anyone else, coupled with another few trillion dollars created from thin air are two signs of weakness that the family cannot afford to show its rivals. For these reasons, it makes more sense to further expand the empire, than to concentrate our money and our resources where it is best for us.

I don't favor a universal health care system-- but I'd rather we end the empire and inject money into our economy through a "medical-industrial complex" than the current military-industrial complex. However, I say this with about as much enthusiasm as a staunch Libertarian (or any third party person) having to choose between a Democrat and a Republican. Don't get me wrong, as Commy said, I'd rather see money going to help people rather than hurt them, but I also feel that this is just another place where we're going to get milked-- simply because an un-ending phony money supply will still be available, and it will eventually be unsustainable.

I do believe that the free-market could and should deliver the best possible care to the people of this country if it were actually allowed to operate. To make this happen, we would have to end the empire, realize that most practices by insurance and banking are actually fraudulent-- and should be outlawed, tort reform is enacted, and income taxes should be abolished-- or if not abolished, medical expenses should be 100% tax-deductible.

Absolutely DEAD ON with that. People love the dream of having "free" health care, and unfortunately they are under the delusion we can afford it. It's not that we actually can't afford it, it's that our government is so corrupt (on both sides) that their actions will not allow us to afford it. If you want to enact a trillion dollar health care system, find a trillion dollars in our budget to cut. As a father of a child who has a heart condition that prevents him from being insured, trust me, I know how badly health insurance is needed by many people in this country. I'm going to end up paying for my son's heart surgery out of my own pocket in the next year or so. I'm just fortunate enough that I'm able to do so. I can't imagine the stress of a family that has no chance of being able to afford it.

This bullshit money factory, known as the Fed, that has increased our money supply by over 120% in just the last year, is going to destroy us. I'm sure that's good news for some of you, but I happen to love this country, just not the people running it (and I'm not talking about Obama, this goes way back many administrations, especially Bush with his infinite increase in spending). We had some of our worst inflation back when Carter was president, and interest rates were going crazy. Banks use those interest rates to help control that flow of money, and pull some of that excess cash out of circulation which helps keep the dollar strong. When Carter was president we only had a 13% increase in the money supply. What the hell do people think is going to happen when this new influx finally starts to hit in the next year or two? They won't be able to raise interest rates enough.

nuffingman

surfanddestroy wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

yeah....I hate paying for roads that I never drive on too

we should do away with that

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I pay my national insurance every month and its not cheap, I have anthma so I have to pay for my prescription every month, it took me years to get a dentist on the NHS and now when I go I have to pay each visit, I moved home and have now received a letter from my doctor saying I am now outside of his area and will have to find myself a new doctor. This is easier said than done as they are all full and therefore not taking on new patients.

I suggest you get your facts before making stupid :roll: at me.

Yeah I agree our system isn't perfect, but if you have a bad accident or became seriously ill you'll be taken in and cared for. They won't be asking for insurance details or presenting you with a bill.

The NHS can't be totally free it has to be paid for somehow, that's why we pay National Insurance and Income Tax. I'd rather our system than many others.

Re going to the dentist and paying each visit, try going private as I once did and seeing how much it costs.

surfanddestroy

nuffingman wrote:

Yeah I agree our system isn't perfect, but if you have a bad accident or became seriously ill you'll be taken in and cared for. They won't be asking for insurance details or presenting you with a bill.

The NHS can't be totally free it has to be paid for somehow, that's why we pay National Insurance and Income Tax. I'd rather our system than many others.

Re going to the dentist and paying each visit, try going private as I once did and seeing how much it costs.

I also have health and life insurance as I had to take them out when I got my mortgage.

I am not asking for it to be totally free but if I am paying as much as I am for NI and Income Tax then I expect to get my prescriptions free.

I know going private is expencsive but I shouldn't have to go down that route and shouldnt have to pay each visit as I am already paying for it through my NI & Income Tax.

nuffingman

surfanddestroy wrote:

I also have health and life insurance as I had to take them out when I got my mortgage.

I am not asking for it to be totally free but if I am paying as much as I am for NI and Income Tax then I expect to get my prescriptions free.

I know going private is expencsive but I shouldn't have to go down that route and shouldnt have to pay each visit as I am already paying for it through my NI & Income Tax.

Drug companies are in the business for profit. If you had to pay for some of the drugs at the correct rate you'd be paying a lot more than £7.10. Your NI & Income Tax isn't covering it all.

If we had all our prescription and dental charges free NI would rocket.

Having to pay for health insurance for your mortgage is a bummer but that's not anything to do with the NHS.

Gern Blansten

surfanddestroy wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

yeah....I hate paying for roads that I never drive on too

we should do away with that

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I pay my national insurance every month and its not cheap, I have anthma so I have to pay for my prescription every month, it took me years to get a dentist on the NHS and now when I go I have to pay each visit, I moved home and have now received a letter from my doctor saying I am now outside of his area and will have to find myself a new doctor. This is easier said than done as they are all full and therefore not taking on new patients.

I suggest you get your facts before making stupid :roll: at me.

come on....how much do you pay for your prescription?

I pay $950/month for insurance with a $5,500 deductible...

Heatherj43

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

When will we get health care that works in this country? The answer is: whenever the empire collapses. Whatever country replaces our empire status will surely be the ones whose health care system goes down the toilet.

Let's face it, our country funds EVERYTHING the government does with AIR. Nothing. Totally fiat. Created on a computer screen courtesy of the Federal Reserve, and whatever dealings they make with other foreign central banks. This process pays for the wars, it pays for welfare, for roads to be paved, for the post office, everything really. Collecting taxes is more of an attempt curb the effects of inflation than it actually does pay for any of the services that we expect from government-- yet simultaneously, it drives prices up, as businesses deal with a higher bottomline because we are all so heavily taxed for money that took no effort to create. My point is, we "print" money for EVERYTHING, and have proven time and time again that we don't care, or are ingorant to the fact that our entire economy is a house of cards ready to collapse because of it. Why would paying for everyone's medical bills through the same process be such a big deal?

The answer is simple: The people who run our country do not care about us, as it is not in their best interests to do so. Our government is THE MOB (not in the literal La Cosa Nostra sense, but their operations are identical), and they only protect and take care of their top earners: No bid construction and defense contracts, and major bank bailouts are glaring examples. Paying for everyone's health care on top of that would probably be the 10-ton anvil that broke the already-stressed camel's back (it won't be cheap-- it would probably take a trillion dollars annually), and would probably force the rest of the world to lose confidence in our currency (and thus our empire) and dump it completely. Believe it or not, there is more confidence, and thus more strength in this phony confidence-based system when the mob boss rules with an iron fist. Showing compassion for our own people or for anyone else, coupled with another few trillion dollars created from thin air are two signs of weakness that the family cannot afford to show its rivals. For these reasons, it makes more sense to further expand the empire, than to concentrate our money and our resources where it is best for us.

I don't favor a universal health care system-- but I'd rather we end the empire and inject money into our economy through a "medical-industrial complex" than the current military-industrial complex. However, I say this with about as much enthusiasm as a staunch Libertarian (or any third party person) having to choose between a Democrat and a Republican. Don't get me wrong, as Commy said, I'd rather see money going to help people rather than hurt them, but I also feel that this is just another place where we're going to get milked-- simply because an un-ending phony money supply will still be available, and it will eventually be unsustainable.

I do believe that the free-market could and should deliver the best possible care to the people of this country if it were actually allowed to operate. To make this happen, we would have to end the empire, realize that most practices by insurance and banking are actually fraudulent-- and should be outlawed, tort reform is enacted, and income taxes should be abolished-- or if not abolished, medical expenses should be 100% tax-deductible.

I find it interesting that you said we should change from a military-industrial complex to a medical-industrial complex. In the years Reagan was president he put more money into the military than all the other presidents combined from the beginning of the U.S.A. That is ridiculous. Many say he had to because of the cold war. Well, I was raised during the time we were told the Russians were going to bomb us and they had missiles that could come all the way from there to various locations here. Also, that we had the same missiles and it was just a matter of who pushed some button first. We would have bomb drills at school, where we had to "hide like a turtle", curl up in a ball under our desks.
This was in case the bombs from Russia were coming. As a child I see nothing "cold" about the war they threatened us with. Oh, and it was my gov. threatening us.
I knew where all the bomb shelters were and many people had their own in their yard.
That was all B.S. and an excuse to put so much money into the military. I hate that today we call it the "cold war". The U.S. had their citizens scared to death.
Now I have learned that Russia was so poor that they couldn't keep up with the maintenance of their weapons and couldn't attack us.
The money we put into the military could easily pay for what we really need as far as a military structure and pay for universal health care.

_Crazy_Mary_

Here's how I see the proposed national healthcare in America.
Obama has said it will be budget neutral and won't cost us anything extra. How can you give healthcare to everybody and it not cost anything? Unless you force the doctor's to accept less pay in which case the doctor's will give up their practice. Then we have less doctors and more patients. How can it work?

Shawshank

_Crazy_Mary_ wrote:

Here's how I see the proposed national healthcare in America.
Obama has said it will be budget neutral and won't cost us anything extra. How can you give healthcare to everybody and it not cost anything? Unless you force the doctor's to accept less pay in which case the doctor's will give up their practice. Then we have less doctors and more patients. How can it work?

Another valid point that many people choose to ignore for the most part.

Gern Blansten

_Crazy_Mary_ wrote:

Here's how I see the proposed national healthcare in America.
Obama has said it will be budget neutral and won't cost us anything extra. How can you give healthcare to everybody and it not cost anything? Unless you force the doctor's to accept less pay in which case the doctor's will give up their practice. Then we have less doctors and more patients. How can it work?

what?

we ALL pay for healthcare now....either through health insurance premiums or through taxes or through higher pass through costs

And come on....a doctor will quit his practice? to do what?

Ignorance is bliss I guess....

Heatherj43

_Crazy_Mary_ wrote:

Here's how I see the proposed national healthcare in America.
Obama has said it will be budget neutral and won't cost us anything extra. How can you give healthcare to everybody and it not cost anything? Unless you force the doctor's to accept less pay in which case the doctor's will give up their practice. Then we have less doctors and more patients. How can it work?

The doctors currently take less pay to those with various health care plans. They have arrangements with the ones they accept. But, go in and see one without any insurance and you won't get the discounts health care plans get. You will pay more.