Why is Obama called a socialist?

cincybearcat

JR8805 wrote:

Obama is called a socialist so that it can be implied he is a communist because the socialist name-callers know most Americans don't know a socialist from a screw driver, and that works in their favor.

Isn't a socialist a kind of screwdriver...the one with the funny head?

Cosmo

cincybearcat wrote:

JR8805 wrote:

Obama is called a socialist so that it can be implied he is a communist because the socialist name-callers know most Americans don't know a socialist from a screw driver, and that works in their favor.

Isn't a socialist a kind of screwdriver...the one with the funny head?

...
I always thought a 'socialist' was one of those fancy pants guys... that wears Seersucker suits to the Kentucky Derby and goes to the opera and has a membership to the country club.
...
Like, did you ever read that book, 'The Outsiders'? There was this battle between the Greasers and the Socialists... which seems kind of unfair because Greasers usually fight dirty.
Then again, the socialists have dads who are lawyers and judges who can lock them up.

_Crazy_Mary_

socialism is the means of producing and distributing goods owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy

*the multi-billion dollar stimulus package
*obama's health plan

aren't at least these two things somewhat socialistic?

tinkerbell

redrock wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

to me the ironic thing is that the people calling obama a socialist appear to have no idea what they are talking about. calling names just to call names and incite fear it seems to me.

Those calling him a socialist definitely do not know what socialism is. And only in the US could the word 'socialist' incite fear!

From the outside looking in there seems to be a hell of a lot of fear about everything in the US. The saying that ignorance is bliss has a flip side - fear is ignorance

Commy

_Crazy_Mary_ wrote:

socialism is the means of producing and distributing goods owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy

*the multi-billion dollar stimulus package
*obama's health plan

aren't at least these two things somewhat socialistic?

so everything paid for with tax dolalrs is socialist? we put money into a pool, which the gov't then spend as it sees fits. on programs. military, roads, etc

Cosmo

_Crazy_Mary_ wrote:

socialism is the means of producing and distributing goods owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy

*the multi-billion dollar stimulus package
*obama's health plan

aren't at least these two things somewhat socialistic?

...
The Stimulus package is going to infrastructure projects, such a highways and bridges... and levees and storm drains. Actually, a socialist project is the interstate highway system. When you see the interstate sign... such as I-5 through California... it means it gets federal funding (which also explains how Hawaii can have interstate highways over there). So, with the money... we get freeways and bridges.
The Heatlh Care Plan? Which Health Care plan? The ones in the House or the ones in the Senate? And i don't think they have passed, yet.
...
Other socialist entities... the military and the postal service. The Government plans and controls the military by not allowing them to purchase things such as Kalashnikov Rifles or MiG-29 Fighters.
And a Socialist program... Medicare.

OutOfBreath

_Crazy_Mary_ wrote:

socialism is the means of producing and distributing goods owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy

*the multi-billion dollar stimulus package
*obama's health plan

aren't at least these two things somewhat socialistic?

You mustn't confuse capitalism with a dash of social responsibility for socialism.

The stimulus package is first and foremost to save the current capitalist system, and from what I've gleaned of the Obama health plan, there ain't no revolution there either. In other words, continuing the status quo of state-based capitalism pretty much. (Which is the capitalism we've pretty much always had, at least on a soceital level)

Socialism as a system is something far more than taxing capitalism. In the developed world at least, we have pretty much leftie capitalism and rightie capitalism. In both instances there is taxation and public programs, they just differ on what programs, and to a really tiny extent how much to tax. But it's capitalism alright. America barely even have leftie capitalists as it is. Obama is pretty centrist really. Only in America can he get the "socialist" sticker attached to him. Pretty much everywhere else he would have passed for a conservative.

Peace
Dan

aerial

OutOfBreath wrote:

_Crazy_Mary_ wrote:

socialism is the means of producing and distributing goods owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy

*the multi-billion dollar stimulus package
*obama's health plan

aren't at least these two things somewhat socialistic?

You mustn't confuse capitalism with a dash of social responsibility for socialism.

The stimulus package is first and foremost to save the current capitalist system, and from what I've gleaned of the Obama health plan, there ain't no revolution there either. In other words, continuing the status quo of state-based capitalism pretty much. (Which is the capitalism we've pretty much always had, at least on a soceital level)

Socialism as a system is something far more than taxing capitalism. In the developed world at least, we have pretty much leftie capitalism and rightie capitalism. In both instances there is taxation and public programs, they just differ on what programs, and to a really tiny extent how much to tax. But it's capitalism alright. America barely even have leftie capitalists as it is. Obama is pretty centrist really. Only in America can he get the "socialist" sticker attached to him. Pretty much everywhere else he would have passed for a conservative.

Peace
Dan

Capitalism would be letting these companies fail....not giving them money so government can control them, which is socialism.

Staceb10

He may not be an actual socialist but he has socliast tendencies.. all his spread the wealth talk and the government controlled healthcare plan. I didn't vote for him but I have been willing to give him a chance to see what he does. Of course I'm still waiting because he hasn't really done anything yet except win the Nobel prize for being popular.

polaris_x

aerial wrote:

Capitalism would be letting these companies fail....not giving them money so government can control them, which is socialism.

guess George W. Bush is a socialist!!!

OutOfBreath

Capitalism would be letting these companies fail....not giving them money so government can control them, which is socialism.

Socialism is something far more and different than bailing out failing capitalist structures. A true socialist approach would actually be to let them fail and hope they dragged capitalism down with it. Socialism does not equate a slightly greater state control in the capitalist structure. Socialism is another system altogether.

So the bailout is to save capitalism from itself, and thus a status quo capitalism-friendly move. Obama is merely more of a left-capitalist than his predecessor, but definitely undoubtedly a firm capitalist, as is most of the political spectrum in most countries these days. Democrats are capitalists, as are republicans. Their only beef is what percentile of the system the government should be involved in.

I'm not saying socialism would be much better and whatnot, just clarifying what it really means. Obama isn't one, and he doesn't even have tendencies in that direction. No american president for decades have had so.

Peace
Dan

Cosmo

Staceb10 wrote:

He may not be an actual socialist but he has socliast tendencies.. all his spread the wealth talk and the government controlled healthcare plan. I didn't vote for him but I have been willing to give him a chance to see what he does. Of course I'm still waiting because he hasn't really done anything yet except win the Nobel prize for being popular.

...
See... that's the paradox.
I have heard and read about Obama doing all sorts of things that are driving the country over the cliff... then, I hear about him doing nothing for the past 9 months.
As for Health Care. It is not a government takover of Health Care, it is a reform act to make it easier for americans to gain access to health care. The people who are most against it are the Health Care Insurers, who regulate themselves, and the people who support those insurance companies.

aerial

They should be fixing what we have instead of creating another system which is bound to have it's own share of problems and cost us more money. From what I have heard we will be making payments on this health care plan for two years before it even goes into affect.

gimmesometruth27

aerial wrote:

They should be fixing what we have instead of creating another system which is bound to have it's own share of problems and cost us more money. From what I have heard we will be making payments on this health care plan for two years before it even goes into affect.

way to think positive. doesn't the bill have to pass through congress first? this bill was just announced today and i have not heard anything about having to pay for 2 years before it take effect. if you do not want a public option then OPT the hell out of it.... its an OPTION, and it is an easy choice, if it will not help your family then keep what you already have...

_Crazy_Mary_

polaris_x wrote:

guess George W. Bush is a socialist!!!

you're right. Bush is a socialist. Obama is closer to communist.

brandon10

_Crazy_Mary_ wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

guess George W. Bush is a socialist!!!

you're right. Bush is a socialist. Obama is closer to communist.

And Mary is crazy.

he still stands

I don't know... alot of things Bush did reminded me of a Orwellian totalitarian dictator... secret surveillance, secret prisons with no rights, eternal war for peace -- the ends always justified the means. But since he made it easier for corporations to run the country into the cellar, he is a "capitalist."

polaris_x

_Crazy_Mary_ wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

guess George W. Bush is a socialist!!!

you're right. Bush is a socialist. Obama is closer to communist.

alrighty then :?

can you explain how obama is even remotely close to being a communist?

_Crazy_Mary_

polaris_x wrote:

alrighty then :?

can you explain how obama is even remotely close to being a communist?

sorry, I was only kind of joking about Obama, though I'm sure if he had his way he might be... But I do agree with you about Bush

Commy

aerial wrote:

They should be fixing what we have instead of creating another system which is bound to have it's own share of problems and cost us more money. From what I have heard we will be making payments on this health care plan for two years before it even goes into affect.

if you're worried about spending you should the know the US spends more on violence and military than the rest of the planet combined. more than all of europe, CHina Russia south america, more than all of them put together.


is it only when some of that money starts to benefit the majority in the united states do you take offense?

if its used to kill its ok, but when its used to save lives its socialism? how does that work?