Did Pearl Jam Sell-out?

SM10080

RY wrote:

Most may ignore it, but last night for the opening credits of the Yankee/Angels game Pearl Jam was featured opening the game. Normally this does not faze me; however, it was on FOX. In essence, Pearl Jam sponsored both baseball (which I am fine with) and the FOX network.

So I think they finally sold-out.

What do you all think?

This isn't the band OK'ing it. The Fixer has also been used on NFL games going in and out of commercial. The network uses the song, then pays the publishing dues.

sling

When PJ came to Portland, the lawn seats were only $29.50 plus ticket charges. I thought that was pretty damn good... It's been a LONG time since I paid that little for a concert, including for shows that were about a millionth as good as PJ's. Even the little semi-professional community orchestra I'm in charges 30 bucks a ticket.

Blind3

I could give a Rats bit about setlist set ups. It's the music that counts. I go to as many shows as I can because I love the music ...all of it. Fast or slow. Radio hit or not . It make no difference. Also, what is all this crap about selling out. Are PJ not allowed to earn a living , a good living, from the fruits of their labor ?

sharonrachel1

Sale-ing wasn't that a son by Christopher Cross?? :?: ??

... .....I love that song..... ......

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Jeanwah wrote:

Ledbetterman10 wrote:

I don't think this makes them sell-outs at all.

Here are some things that I think might make them sell-outs.

- Ten and Backspacer being downloadable albums on guitar hero
- Big Verizon text message screens at concerts last year
- The fact that they charge more than Metallica for concert tickets

"This was a while back, but just to see that the Spin Doctors had their tour sponsored by Levi's or something... I don't know anything about that band, I've never listened to their music. This was the same time we were doing the Ticketmaster stuff, and I thought, what the hell are they doing? Why would anybody want to do that? Sure, right now it's the odd band out there that does that, but I just don't want there to be a day when every band is sponsored. Hopefully in 50 years, when I check back in on society after I've left to go sleep under a tree, I won't wake up and see that it's changed like that." - Eddie Vedder 1994

"Back when we were on tour last spring,we asked everybody to take a cut (in profits) - we were taking a cut, and we said if we're gonna work with you, you have to do the same, because we're not going to take as much money from our fans as everyone would like. Ticketmaster didn't want to take a cut. We felt the service charge they were asking for was disproportionate to the ticket price we were offering. If you have a $55 Rolling Stones ticket and there's a $3-6 service charge, okay. But ours was an $18.50 ticket, and now all of a sudden it's a $24 ticket. That's not right. I just want people to be able to see our shows. It's extremely important that it's available to everyone, that if they'd like to attend, they'd be able to. Also, when you start having $50 tickets, all of a sudden you're changing your audience. And that's a frightening thought, playing only to people that can afford a $50 ticket." Eddie Vedder 1994

I wonder if EV wished he never said these things...seeing that he's totally contradicting himself now.

that was....what?....15 years ago? no one could have predicted the way things have gone. not to mention inflation. he is NOT contradicting himself in the context of the current state of affairs, only if they turned around and did what they are doing back in 1996.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A SELL-OUT. UNLESS YOU CONSIDER EVERY PERSON ON EARTH THAT COLLECTS A PAYCHEQUE EVERY TWO WEEKS A SELL-OUT, THEN I GUESS YOUR ARGUMENT HAS VALIDITY. HOWEVER, UNLESS YOU ARE UNEMPLOYED, THEN YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE.

Case fookin' closed.

sling

If you question whether Pearl Jam's sold out, please go see them live ASAP... Anybody who loves music in any way should no longer have any question whether or not they've sold out by the end of the show. It's clear that these guys are ALL about the music. Name another band or musician who's been playing for 19 years that still exposes all of their emotions - from rage to tenderness - (with about 20 other emotions in there) & really allows themselves to be vulnerable emotionally. These guys give it all of their passion & intensity - when they could so easily call it in for an hour & half & collect their money. (Can anyone say "Sting"?) But no, these guys are the real deal.

Do you know how easily they could have gone the Coldplay/U2 route at any time & made a hundred times the amount of cash they're raking in right now? They chose the other route that could keep them focused on real music & not hype. But at some point, society may change where you may not be able to continue producing & distributing your music without a few compromises. If you're about sharing your music with the world, you don't want to make yourself irrelevant by being a purist... Think if they were going to still not play any Ticketmaster venues...

Everybody's a purist when they're young... As the decades pass, you learn that small compromises aren't the worst things in the world... as long as they don't change your core being...

TMudrick

Where have you been the past 6 months with the fixer on every tv station in the country?

sling

I'm not sure if that comment's addressed to me, but I was right there gagging along with a lot of people watching those commercials with the Target logo behind the guys. But I changed my tune after going to the show last month & am giving them a pass on that now... Those are NOT a bunch of guys just trying to make a few bucks...

I've been more of a casual fan since '91, (only seen them 3 times & don't know every single song) but am now obsessed! That was the best show I've probably ever been to, out of maybe 10 a year for 2 decades. Definitely was the most "real" I've been to in a long time. These guys play like they really mean it, unlike most these days that play through layers of fakeness. Shit, Eddie Vedder bares his soul, man! And he certainly doesn't need to. Most aren't going to bother.

meme

I think they hung out in the message pit, saw the mispellings, and decided that they would amass as much money as possible to send their kids to the best schools (or lobby for better public schools).

Paul Andrews

I haven't read this entire thread so sorry if this point has been made...

It is not the 90s. Back when PJ started digital piracy was rare. If I wanted to pirate an album, I'd end up with a crappy cassette that was just no comparison to the real thing. If I wanted a good copy of an album I had to purchase the tape/record/cd. Nowadays I can get an mp3 or pirate cd that is as good as the original. I choose to purchase my music still - I have backspacer from itunes and I have the 10c CD - I've purchsed plenty of other tunes from itunes from the artists I like and support with my cash. I've had plenty of people asking me to give them a copy of backspacer and other music I have downloaded - I always refuse. Unfortunately I am in the minority. Making an album and being profitable from that is a lot harder now than it used to be.

The sad fact is that no matter how good music is - plenty of people can now get it for free and many refuse to pay a cent for it. I've seen kids with gigs of music on their ipods - all ripped off. Limewire, napster etal have changed the music landscape forever. While we all thought metallica were tightarses for suing napster, they did have a point. While was guilty of hunting down the odd song from limewire/napster (I haven't used a file sharing service in years), I still purchased cds. BUt how many bands sell millions of records like in years gone by?

This loss of revenue has forced bands to look to other ways of generating income - the same income that pays for recording studios, that pays for fan clubs, that pays the wages of the multitude of people involved in the music creation process. How many families rely on music income? The answer for many bands has been to tour more - GREAT! But this also means producing more merchandise for collectors, higher ticket prices, slicker marketing, newly forged partnerships with entities previously declared as evil or unwanted (target, ticketmaster etc).

No matter how your describe it: seling out, maximising profitability, creative marketing - whatever, it is something that has become necesary for a lot of artists and the employees they support to do in order to survive. I do not think Pearl Jam has sold out - they are doing what they need to do to survive and pay the employees and contractors who rely on them. It doesn't matter if Eddie Vedder is a millionaire - the band's cut of the profits are probably far less than what many others demand. Pearl Jam is much more than the 5 members of the band - there are plenty of members of the wider organisation that rely on Pearl Jam to support their families and I trust Pearl Jam to make ethical and just decisions that look after those they employ and contract as well as the fans.

Pearl Jam are making great music and performing way better than many other bands this deep into their careers. In order to keep doing this they need to act like a business and protect their business model. There is nothing at all wrong with this. In fact, Pearl Jam have tried to keep their business model as fan-friendly as possible. I don't hear too many people labelling Dave Grohl a sell out and what the Foo Fighters are doing is pretty much the opposite of what Nirvana claimed to stand for and the music is now very different to the first coupld of foo fighters records. Greenday are the same - a very differnt band than who produced Dookie. None of these bands are doing to their fans what KISS do (ie ripping them off), so I think calling them a sell out shows a complete lack of understanding of the complexities and difficulties of the music market in 2009.

I_GOT_no_IDea

meme wrote:

I think they hung out in the message pit, saw the mispellings, and decided that they would amass as much money as possible to send their kids to the best schools (or lobby for better public schools).

and the misspellings as well! great call though - i love your theory!

josevolution

As long as the Yankees keep winning i could give two shits as to what songs are featured on the fox network ..

RY

I really enjoyed the comments. Whether you agree or not or don't care, it is nice to see some smart people out there on both sides of the discussion.

The Juggler

its threads like this that make me want to stay away from this board. :roll:

the original poster has 2 posts.

BEAT IT

musicismylife78

The whole idea of selling out doesnt really exist anyone, or at least in the sense it did back in the early 1990's when Nirvana and Pearl Jam were coming up.

Back then, any band that did anything to appease or cater to mainstream audiences was considered a sell out. making videos, being in magazines and so on was considered verboten.

Nowadays, as I have pointed out many times, it doesnt really even matter. The big scene of the moment is the indie rock scene. Any band featured or promoted by Pitchfork, right now is the it band.

And if you look at those bands, they all cater to the mainstream and get their music out there, even in ways that 10 years ago, would have meant they would have been run out of town and their shows boycott by fans.

Death Cab one of the biggest bands right now, was featured prominently on one of the biggest teen shows of our generation The O.C. and most recently, have done a ton of press and even wrote and recorded a song for the new Twilight movie. The Shins were featured on one of the biggest movies of our generation: Garden State, and in addition did a commercial with McDonalds. Ray lamontagne, currently soundtracks a commercial with dogs featured on it. Modest Mouse recorded a song for BudWeiser, an entire movie was made that bows down and worships the indie bands of the moment was released: Nick and Norah. And tune into some tv show tonight, whether its Greys Anatomy, or The Hills, or Brothers and Sisters, or House, or One Tree Hill, and the scenes are all soundtracked by indie bands.

All that said, NONE of these bands are considered sell outs. None are considered corporate whores. None are considered bands who only care about money.

Things changed. I dont know when, or why they changed. But they did. And right now, a band can lend its songs for use in a tenny bopper tv show like The Hills, and still be respected critically and by fans.

I have pointed this out before, and its worth noting again. This idea that, in every other musical scene or movement, when that scene or movement goes mainstream and the mainstream starts using the scene to sell things and markets things, then the scene and movement dies. Its played out this way in just about every musical scene in the last 20-30 years. But with indie rock, they can sell Budweiser and write songs for Coca Cola and still the movement moves on and continues on.

Gems and Rhinestones

RY wrote:

Most may ignore it, but last night for the opening credits of the Yankee/Angels game Pearl Jam was featured opening the game. Normally this does not faze me; however, it was on FOX. In essence, Pearl Jam sponsored both baseball (which I am fine with) and the FOX network.

So I think they finally sold-out.

What do you all think?

ya they sold out.......you should stop liking them now...cancel your membership!

brandon10

musicismylife78 wrote:

The whole idea of selling out doesnt really exist anyone, or at least in the sense it did back in the early 1990's when Nirvana and Pearl Jam were coming up.

Back then, any band that did anything to appease or cater to mainstream audiences was considered a sell out. making videos, being in magazines and so on was considered verboten.

Nowadays, as I have pointed out many times, it doesnt really even matter. The big scene of the moment is the indie rock scene. Any band featured or promoted by Pitchfork, right now is the it band.

And if you look at those bands, they all cater to the mainstream and get their music out there, even in ways that 10 years ago, would have meant they would have been run out of town and their shows boycott by fans.

Death Cab one of the biggest bands right now, was featured prominently on one of the biggest teen shows of our generation The O.C. and most recently, have done a ton of press and even wrote and recorded a song for the new Twilight movie. The Shins were featured on one of the biggest movies of our generation: Garden State, and in addition did a commercial with McDonalds. Ray lamontagne, currently soundtracks a commercial with dogs featured on it. Modest Mouse recorded a song for BudWeiser, an entire movie was made that bows down and worships the indie bands of the moment was released: Nick and Norah. And tune into some tv show tonight, whether its Greys Anatomy, or The Hills, or Brothers and Sisters, or House, or One Tree Hill, and the scenes are all soundtracked by indie bands.

All that said, NONE of these bands are considered sell outs. None are considered corporate whores. None are considered bands who only care about money.

Things changed. I dont know when, or why they changed. But they did. And right now, a band can lend its songs for use in a tenny bopper tv show like The Hills, and still be respected critically and by fans.

I have pointed this out before, and its worth noting again. This idea that, in every other musical scene or movement, when that scene or movement goes mainstream and the mainstream starts using the scene to sell things and markets things, then the scene and movement dies. Its played out this way in just about every musical scene in the last 20-30 years. But with indie rock, they can sell Budweiser and write songs for Coca Cola and still the movement moves on and continues on.

I agree with most of what you are saying here. But what I expect from PJ is for them to frown upon what is going on in the industry today. To lead by example. In 10-20 years from now they would be extremely respected for it.

It was kind of what Neil Young went through in the 80s. Most acts were selling out. Neil stayed strong and garnered the respect he deserved. I feel PJ slightly slipping. They have not completely sold out. And I hope they never do. The day I hear PJ songs in comercials would be a sad day indeed.

The Juggler

brandon10 wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

The whole idea of selling out doesnt really exist anyone, or at least in the sense it did back in the early 1990's when Nirvana and Pearl Jam were coming up.

Back then, any band that did anything to appease or cater to mainstream audiences was considered a sell out. making videos, being in magazines and so on was considered verboten.

Nowadays, as I have pointed out many times, it doesnt really even matter. The big scene of the moment is the indie rock scene. Any band featured or promoted by Pitchfork, right now is the it band.

And if you look at those bands, they all cater to the mainstream and get their music out there, even in ways that 10 years ago, would have meant they would have been run out of town and their shows boycott by fans.

Death Cab one of the biggest bands right now, was featured prominently on one of the biggest teen shows of our generation The O.C. and most recently, have done a ton of press and even wrote and recorded a song for the new Twilight movie. The Shins were featured on one of the biggest movies of our generation: Garden State, and in addition did a commercial with McDonalds. Ray lamontagne, currently soundtracks a commercial with dogs featured on it. Modest Mouse recorded a song for BudWeiser, an entire movie was made that bows down and worships the indie bands of the moment was released: Nick and Norah. And tune into some tv show tonight, whether its Greys Anatomy, or The Hills, or Brothers and Sisters, or House, or One Tree Hill, and the scenes are all soundtracked by indie bands.

All that said, NONE of these bands are considered sell outs. None are considered corporate whores. None are considered bands who only care about money.

Things changed. I dont know when, or why they changed. But they did. And right now, a band can lend its songs for use in a tenny bopper tv show like The Hills, and still be respected critically and by fans.

I have pointed this out before, and its worth noting again. This idea that, in every other musical scene or movement, when that scene or movement goes mainstream and the mainstream starts using the scene to sell things and markets things, then the scene and movement dies. Its played out this way in just about every musical scene in the last 20-30 years. But with indie rock, they can sell Budweiser and write songs for Coca Cola and still the movement moves on and continues on.

I agree with most of what you are saying here. But what I expect from PJ is for them to frown upon what is going on in the industry today. To lead by example. In 10-20 years from now they would be extremely respected for it.

It was kind of what Neil Young went through in the 80s. Most acts were selling out. Neil stayed strong and garnered the respect he deserved. I feel PJ slightly slipping. They have not completely sold out. And I hope they never do. The day I hear PJ songs in comercials would be a sad day indeed.

you people need to relax. they are leading by example. they are now an indie band still putting out great music. but they want people to listen to it. so, you gotta do what you gotta do in 2009. so many people on this board think it's still 1994. get over it people. :roll:

Mad Mohab

Pearl jam arnt sellin a lot of records anymore anyway, so why all the harsh corporate shit? Thats what I don't get. I think they have to much periphery costs and mental baggage it seems in interviews from when huge. I love their last two more than anything else Ive hear lately, but why work so hard to keep up credentials then let then plummet? Why bring an american flag covered with corporate logos into mexico in irony, then support those? Are they some kind of soldiers of these compnaies or are they questioning that way of life? that kind of thing. so early am...

on a different note, found the speed of sound demo last night, sweet...