The whole idea of selling out doesnt really exist anyone, or at least in the sense it did back in the early 1990's when Nirvana and Pearl Jam were coming up.
Back then, any band that did anything to appease or cater to mainstream audiences was considered a sell out. making videos, being in magazines and so on was considered verboten.
Nowadays, as I have pointed out many times, it doesnt really even matter. The big scene of the moment is the indie rock scene. Any band featured or promoted by Pitchfork, right now is the it band.
And if you look at those bands, they all cater to the mainstream and get their music out there, even in ways that 10 years ago, would have meant they would have been run out of town and their shows boycott by fans.
Death Cab one of the biggest bands right now, was featured prominently on one of the biggest teen shows of our generation The O.C. and most recently, have done a ton of press and even wrote and recorded a song for the new Twilight movie. The Shins were featured on one of the biggest movies of our generation: Garden State, and in addition did a commercial with McDonalds. Ray lamontagne, currently soundtracks a commercial with dogs featured on it. Modest Mouse recorded a song for BudWeiser, an entire movie was made that bows down and worships the indie bands of the moment was released: Nick and Norah. And tune into some tv show tonight, whether its Greys Anatomy, or The Hills, or Brothers and Sisters, or House, or One Tree Hill, and the scenes are all soundtracked by indie bands.
All that said, NONE of these bands are considered sell outs. None are considered corporate whores. None are considered bands who only care about money.
Things changed. I dont know when, or why they changed. But they did. And right now, a band can lend its songs for use in a tenny bopper tv show like The Hills, and still be respected critically and by fans.
I have pointed this out before, and its worth noting again. This idea that, in every other musical scene or movement, when that scene or movement goes mainstream and the mainstream starts using the scene to sell things and markets things, then the scene and movement dies. Its played out this way in just about every musical scene in the last 20-30 years. But with indie rock, they can sell Budweiser and write songs for Coca Cola and still the movement moves on and continues on.
I agree with most of what you are saying here. But what I expect from PJ is for them to frown upon what is going on in the industry today. To lead by example.In 10-20 years from now they would be extremely respected for it.
It was kind of what Neil Young went through in the 80s. Most acts were selling out. Neil stayed strong and garnered the respect he deserved. I feel PJ slightly slipping. They have not completely sold out. And I hope they never do. The day I hear PJ songs in comercials would be a sad day indeed.
you people need to relax. they are leading by example. they are now an indie band still putting out great music. but they want people to listen to it. so, you gotta do what you gotta do in 2009. so many people on this board think it's still 1994. get over it people. :roll:
Expensive concert tickets and letting a crappy tv show like Cold Case use a bunch of your songs isn't leading by example in 1994 or 2014. Like I said earlier, I don't think they have sold out. But they are starting to do things that point in that direction.
the question though, becomes, why act like they did 20 years ago?
I have enormous respect for the Neil Youngs and Fugazi's and Tom Waits of the world who refuse to do anything that caters or cow tows to the mainstream. Those bands deserve our respect.
But I also see the other side of the coin. While bands like I just mentioned are special and worthy of our undying love and support, I see nothing wrong with bands who use commercial means to promote their music.
This was often a major problem for the uber Rage Against the machine fans. This was a band who obviously were Marxist anarchist radicals, who despised everything capitalism stood for, yet here they were on Sony records, and promoting their product on TRL. Very few people could understand that. And I think the reason they did all that was because they felt their message was important, and if they had done the Fugazi method, thousands of people would have heard their music, as opposed to the millions, tens of millions even who heard it by them being on Sony Records.
I think that applies to PJ and the other bands I mentioned in my other post. The goal of every band is to have as many people hear their music as possible.
the question though, becomes, why act like they did 20 years ago?
I have enormous respect for the Neil Youngs and Fugazi's and Tom Waits of the world who refuse to do anything that caters or cow tows to the mainstream. Those bands deserve our respect.
But I also see the other side of the coin. While bands like I just mentioned are special and worthy of our undying love and support, I see nothing wrong with bands who use commercial means to promote their music.
This was often a major problem for the uber Rage Against the machine fans. This was a band who obviously were Marxist anarchist radicals, who despised everything capitalism stood for, yet here they were on Sony records, and promoting their product on TRL. Very few people could understand that. And I think the reason they did all that was because they felt their message was important, and if they had done the Fugazi method, thousands of people would have heard their music, as opposed to the millions, tens of millions even who heard it by them being on Sony Records.
I think that applies to PJ and the other bands I mentioned in my other post. The goal of every band is to have as many people hear their music as possible.
Great point.
I think Pearl Jam 2009 epitomizes this idea completely. They want their music out there, they want to sell a lot of records (yes and make money), and they want to put on kick ass concerts in major markets..
So they have to deal with at least 1 big box store, they have to use whatever means of promotion that are available, Conan, Target commercial, Verizon, Rock band, and others.
They MUST get in bed with ticketmaster and live nation in order to sell tickets to places we want to see them play.
I'm ok with all of that. Before Sony did it all for them, they fought and lost to TM, and when they were the biggest band in the world not only did they not have to put any effort into promoting themselves, they actually made every effort to pull back.
That is not the case today.
On a scale of 1-10 of whoring themselves out, I would put them at like a 2 or 3.
to answer the original question in my opinion: NO.
the landscape has changed considerably since they first broke out of the gates. i still think they're making great choices. i could go on & on, but i don't see the point. some people see it one way, and some see it the other way.
What no one is talking about, is the reason many bands these days are selling their music to commercials and tv shows.
Its directly related to filesharing and illegal downloading.
Back in the day, a Pearl Jam, or whoever could rely on cd sales as a serious and important revenue stream. They would make a ton of money from cd sales. Now its common knowledge, that every single major release by any band, is often times available on the internet, for free, and often times the album leaks well before the official release date.
So bands need to make up for that lost cash. Isaac Brock of Modest Mouse and Kevin Barnes of Of Montreal have suggested these are reasons why bands sell their music to commercials and what not.
And it would be different if these bands were making their music watered down, or crappy, or dumbed down, in order to appeal to mainstream audiences.
But these songs are almost always written before the commercials are even thought of. Sam Beam did an M and M commercial, and the Postal Service had their music featured on a USPS commercial, but it wasnt like the M and M company and USPS made them tone down the music, or rewrite the music.
Additionally, PJ has changed. They have grown up. Back in 1991 did any of you think the band would be releasing an album with strings and have a new album that is primarily made up of love songs? Or how about the fact that the new album is completely lacking in the politics and social commentary that have been a huge part of the bands existance? Even more, who would have thought, as was the case in interviews leading up to Avocado's release, that the band would actually want the album to be commercially successful and sell a ton of records? How about the idea that Backspacer is the most pop and accessible album the band has released maybe ever, and at least since Ten? Appearing on SNL in 2006, and cohosting the show with Lindsay Lohan? The point is, the band changed. Whether thats good or bad is your opinion, but their is no doubt the Ed of 1991 is way different from the Ed of 2009.
It's MUCH more about the benjamins than it has ever been. They could tour with much cheaper ticket prices and still make a nice profit but they choose to charge as much as they possibly can for tickets. I think they are right around the point where they can still sell out shows but once their tickets hit $100, they will have trouble with ticket sales.
They sold out the o2 in about 10 mins, so is suppose they have!
Eastern Creek 95,Syd 1 98,Bris 2 98, Syd 1&2 03, Reading Fest 06, Bris 1 06, London 09, Hyde Park 10, Gold Coast BDO 14 Budapest 22 Krakow 22 Amsterdam 22 St Paul 1&2 23 Chicago 1&2 23 Chicago 1&2 24 New York 1 24 Philly 1&2 24 Boston 1&2 24 Gold Coast 24 Melbourne 1 24 Sydney 1&2 24
Comments
Expensive concert tickets and letting a crappy tv show like Cold Case use a bunch of your songs isn't leading by example in 1994 or 2014. Like I said earlier, I don't think they have sold out. But they are starting to do things that point in that direction.
I have enormous respect for the Neil Youngs and Fugazi's and Tom Waits of the world who refuse to do anything that caters or cow tows to the mainstream. Those bands deserve our respect.
But I also see the other side of the coin. While bands like I just mentioned are special and worthy of our undying love and support, I see nothing wrong with bands who use commercial means to promote their music.
This was often a major problem for the uber Rage Against the machine fans. This was a band who obviously were Marxist anarchist radicals, who despised everything capitalism stood for, yet here they were on Sony records, and promoting their product on TRL. Very few people could understand that. And I think the reason they did all that was because they felt their message was important, and if they had done the Fugazi method, thousands of people would have heard their music, as opposed to the millions, tens of millions even who heard it by them being on Sony Records.
I think that applies to PJ and the other bands I mentioned in my other post. The goal of every band is to have as many people hear their music as possible.
Great point.
I think Pearl Jam 2009 epitomizes this idea completely. They want their music out there, they want to sell a lot of records (yes and make money), and they want to put on kick ass concerts in major markets..
So they have to deal with at least 1 big box store, they have to use whatever means of promotion that are available, Conan, Target commercial, Verizon, Rock band, and others.
They MUST get in bed with ticketmaster and live nation in order to sell tickets to places we want to see them play.
I'm ok with all of that. Before Sony did it all for them, they fought and lost to TM, and when they were the biggest band in the world not only did they not have to put any effort into promoting themselves, they actually made every effort to pull back.
That is not the case today.
On a scale of 1-10 of whoring themselves out, I would put them at like a 2 or 3.
Kiss being a 10 and Fugazi's being a 1.
Get over it people, they are doing fine.
the landscape has changed considerably since they first broke out of the gates. i still think they're making great choices. i could go on & on, but i don't see the point. some people see it one way, and some see it the other way.
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www.cluthe.com
Its directly related to filesharing and illegal downloading.
Back in the day, a Pearl Jam, or whoever could rely on cd sales as a serious and important revenue stream. They would make a ton of money from cd sales. Now its common knowledge, that every single major release by any band, is often times available on the internet, for free, and often times the album leaks well before the official release date.
So bands need to make up for that lost cash. Isaac Brock of Modest Mouse and Kevin Barnes of Of Montreal have suggested these are reasons why bands sell their music to commercials and what not.
And it would be different if these bands were making their music watered down, or crappy, or dumbed down, in order to appeal to mainstream audiences.
But these songs are almost always written before the commercials are even thought of. Sam Beam did an M and M commercial, and the Postal Service had their music featured on a USPS commercial, but it wasnt like the M and M company and USPS made them tone down the music, or rewrite the music.
Additionally, PJ has changed. They have grown up. Back in 1991 did any of you think the band would be releasing an album with strings and have a new album that is primarily made up of love songs? Or how about the fact that the new album is completely lacking in the politics and social commentary that have been a huge part of the bands existance? Even more, who would have thought, as was the case in interviews leading up to Avocado's release, that the band would actually want the album to be commercially successful and sell a ton of records? How about the idea that Backspacer is the most pop and accessible album the band has released maybe ever, and at least since Ten? Appearing on SNL in 2006, and cohosting the show with Lindsay Lohan? The point is, the band changed. Whether thats good or bad is your opinion, but their is no doubt the Ed of 1991 is way different from the Ed of 2009.
It said "Life is nothing but a dream."
I've spent so many years in question
To find I'd known this all along.
It said "Life is nothing but a dream."
I've spent so many years in question
To find I'd known this all along.
It doesn't mean a thing to me
And it's about time you see
Things ain't like they used to be" - (black keys)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3QrS3yePl8
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com