would the concept of MAD work with iran and isreal

Byrnzie

Drowned Out wrote:

I think you'll also find that Iran has been gunning for the West for much longer than 30 years. I don't blame them.

Gunning for the West how? By minding their own business and not engaging in any wars of aggression?

NoK

It wont work because the israelis are certain Iran would never deal it a complete destructive blow as this will mean they will wipe out the Palestinians too, the same people they are fighting for. This is why the israelis will continue to have the upper hand as long as they hold the Palestinians hostage. This adds to reasons why israelis dont want a two state solution. If they are to define their borders and shift all Palestinians to Palestine then they will lose that upper hand. A one state solution is out of the question as that would mean a Palestinian majority. So they will continue to delay until combining the two populations under a one state solution will lead to a significant jewish majority.

Drowned Out

Byrnzie wrote:

Drowned Out wrote:

I think you'll also find that Iran has been gunning for the West for much longer than 30 years. I don't blame them.

Gunning for the West how? By minding their own business and not engaging in any wars of aggression?

Exactly. Minding their own busines = not part of the corporate agenda = threat to the empire = gunning for the west. See how that works? How dare they.

Commy

wouldn't it makemore sense to disarm everybody? rather than everyone having the power to possibly end the human race, i'd rather they didn't.

at the least we need to get those weapons out of the Israelis hands, they have shown they really don't give a fuck about civilians.

and MAD may have kept the war cold, but hundreds of billions of dollars were pissed away in those nuke programs, probably trillions.

catefrances

what is this cold war of which you all speak???

Commy

that misconception that gave the west an excuse to do all sorts of terrible things around the world

NoK

catefrances wrote:

what is this cold war of which you all speak???

One fought under refrigeration I'm assuming

catefrances

Commy wrote:

that misconception that gave the west an excuse to do all sorts of terrible things around the world

aaah right. that. i dont believe in the cold war anyways for that exact reason. not so cold when youre playing wizards chess with smaller nations.

fife

Commy wrote:

wouldn't it makemore sense to disarm everybody? rather than everyone having the power to possibly end the human race, i'd rather they didn't.

at the least we need to get those weapons out of the Israelis hands, they have shown they really don't give a fuck about civilians.

and MAD may have kept the war cold, but hundreds of billions of dollars were pissed away in those nuke programs, probably trillions.

i agree it would be better for no-one to have nukes but i don't see that happenning anytime in the future .

pateljam

Not that there is any proof to this... but I think that Iran would launch the nukes... So "No" MAD would with work in the middle east...

Commy

pateljam wrote:

Not that there is any proof to this... but I think that Iran would launch the nukes... So "No" MAD would with work in the middle east...

eh. the saying power corrupts comes from the idea that any institution invairaibly subscribes to the idea that it must protect itself first -even putting that idea above all others. its why even a noble intentioned group like PETA has now become more worried about its own relevancy than saving animals. power corrupts- in every case.


and a nuke launched from Iran towards Israel would mean the complete destruction of Iran a short time later. so the nature of power would prevent this from happening....even IF the suicide bombing style of Islam were to somehow take power in Iran.


A more likely scenario- if Iran had few nukes lying around, would be for Israel to launch first, as it is ruled by fear, and it has already shown it doesn't give a fuck about civilians. and probably has the technology to counter a few nukes in the air.

i don't see either scenario playing out. they'll turn iran into a desert and call it peace, long before iran gets a nuke.

fuck

pateljam wrote:

Not that there is any proof to this... but I think that Iran would launch the nukes... So "No" MAD would with work in the middle east...

Not that there is any proof to this... but I think we may have a war between goblins and dragons on our hands soon enough...

Byrnzie

pateljam wrote:

Not that there is any proof to this... but I think that Iran would launch the nukes... So "No" MAD would with work in the middle east...

Not that there is any proof to this... but I am the King of Swaziland.

NoK

_outlaw wrote:

Not that there is any proof to this... but I think we may have a war between goblins and dragons on our hands soon enough...

Mate I told you that in confidence..

catefrances

Byrnzie wrote:

pateljam wrote:

Not that there is any proof to this... but I think that Iran would launch the nukes... So "No" MAD would with work in the middle east...

Not that there is any proof to this... but I am the King of Swaziland.

yuo know that makes you my husband... well one of them anyway. ive been ruling swaziland for a few years now

and i do have proof.

Byrnzie

catefrances wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

pateljam wrote:

Not that there is any proof to this... but I think that Iran would launch the nukes... So "No" MAD would with work in the middle east...

Not that there is any proof to this... but I am the King of Swaziland.

yuo know that makes you my husband... well one of them anyway. ive been ruling swaziland for a few years now

and i do have proof.

Great, I've got some shirts that need ironing. Also, whilst you're up, put the kettle on and make me a cup of coffee.

catefrances

Byrnzie wrote:

catefrances wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

Not that there is any proof to this... but I am the King of Swaziland.

yuo know that makes you my husband... well one of them anyway. ive been ruling swaziland for a few years now

and i do have proof.

Great, I've got some shirts that need ironing. Also, whilst you're up, put the kettle on and make me a cup of coffee.

clearly youre not taking your medication.

NoK

I don't know if this is true as it has been declared a lie by Iran and Israel but if true it would be a small window into what really goes on behind the scenes.

http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/NewsD ... 5700291E4E

Spokeswoman: Israeli, Iranian Officials Held Talks on Nukes

A representative of Israel's Atomic Energy Commission held several meetings with an Iranian official to discuss nuclear issues in the region, the commission's spokeswoman said on Thursday.
The spokeswoman declined to give details of the meetings, but the Haaretz daily said the officials discussed the chances of declaring the Middle East a nuclear-free zone.

"There were several meetings between a representative of our commission and an Iranian official in a regional context," spokeswoman Yael Doron told Agence France Presse.

"These meetings were held behind closed doors," she said, adding that they were organized by Australia.

She declined to give further details of the talks, the first between the two archfoes to be officially disclosed since the shah of Iran was deposed in 1979.

The newspaper said Meirav Zafary-Odiz, director of policy and arms control for the Israeli nuclear agency, and Ali Asghar Soltanieh, Iran's delegate to the International Atomic Energy Agency, met several times in Cairo at the end of September.

However, Iran's atomic energy organization denied that Iranian and Israeli experts held secret talks, state television's website reported.

"This lie is a kind of psychological operation designed to affect the constant success of Iran's dynamic diplomacy in the Geneva and Vienna meetings," the organization's spokesman, Ali Shirzadian, was quoted as saying.

Israel, the sole if undeclared nuclear-armed state in the Middle East, has never ruled out a resort to military action to stop Iran's nuclear drive which the West suspects is aimed at making nuclear weapons but Tehran insists is only for peaceful ends.(AFP)

Byrnzie

NoK wrote:

I don't know if this is true as it has been declared a lie by Iran and Israel but if true it would be a small window into what really goes on behind the scenes.

http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/NewsD ... 5700291E4E

Spokeswoman: Israeli, Iranian Officials Held Talks on Nukes

A representative of Israel's Atomic Energy Commission held several meetings with an Iranian official to discuss nuclear issues in the region, the commission's spokeswoman said on Thursday.
The spokeswoman declined to give details of the meetings, but the Haaretz daily said the officials discussed the chances of declaring the Middle East a nuclear-free zone.

"There were several meetings between a representative of our commission and an Iranian official in a regional context," spokeswoman Yael Doron told Agence France Presse.

"These meetings were held behind closed doors," she said, adding that they were organized by Australia.

She declined to give further details of the talks, the first between the two archfoes to be officially disclosed since the shah of Iran was deposed in 1979.

The newspaper said Meirav Zafary-Odiz, director of policy and arms control for the Israeli nuclear agency, and Ali Asghar Soltanieh, Iran's delegate to the International Atomic Energy Agency, met several times in Cairo at the end of September.

However, Iran's atomic energy organization denied that Iranian and Israeli experts held secret talks, state television's website reported.

"This lie is a kind of psychological operation designed to affect the constant success of Iran's dynamic diplomacy in the Geneva and Vienna meetings," the organization's spokesman, Ali Shirzadian, was quoted as saying.

Israel, the sole if undeclared nuclear-armed state in the Middle East, has never ruled out a resort to military action to stop Iran's nuclear drive which the West suspects is aimed at making nuclear weapons but Tehran insists is only for peaceful ends.(AFP)

I doubt very much that Israel would relinquish it's nuclear arsenal. Why would they? How would they benefit from disarmament? And what could Iran offer in return?
Israel is an expansionist militaristic nation, not a nation interested in peace with it's neighbours.

NoK

Byrnzie wrote:

I doubt very much that Israel would relinquish it's nuclear arsenal. Why would they? How would they benefit from disarmament? And what could Iran offer in return?
Israel is an expansionist militaristic nation, not a nation interested in peace with it's neighbours.

I agree but what I am more interested in is whether or not they actually met. I mean if they spew all this hatred against each other in public then meet in private it really gives you a good idea how "serious" the hatred they spew is. In reality, there is a chance it could be all for show. It reminds me of Fisk back in the 80-90's uncovering secret meetings between israel and Hamas.