Kiss & Ace Frehley - debate with a friend

iamrockmusic

Gossard_Is_God wrote:

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

So my friend is trying to convince me that Ace Frehley influenced 99% of guitarist in rock music today.
And that Kiss had a massive influence in all metal bands today.

I told him no way.
Opinions?

This is Correct!!!!!!

You agree that KISS and Ace were big influences? Or you think their contribution to music history has been minimal?

fanch75

Kenny Olav wrote:

I can't even think of one Ace Frehley solo that I would consider impressive. They had a few fun songs, and that's about it.

This statement hurts me.

fanch75

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

So my friend is trying to convince me that Ace Frehley influenced 99% of guitarist in rock music today.
And that Kiss had a massive influence in all metal bands today.

I told him no way.
Opinions?

99%? I would just say, "Come on, son. Chiiiild, please."

Ace is a guitar GOD and no doubt did he influence a lot of people to play guitar in the late 80's and 90's. Today, I don't know. But Kiss rule and ACE has tons of soul is his playing.

Ace is not a lyricist nor is he known for being a prolific songwriter...but he's known for some great solos and for writing some great songs. Kiss (as Gene, Paul, Pe-*cough*-ter, and ACE), were and still are legends. Their new album totally captures what they set out for, which is a rock and roll 70's vibe that doesn't sound like it was recorded in the 70's. It's great. Ace's latest solo album (released last month) is great, too.

g under p

FLdrummerboy wrote:

Jennytree wrote:

Maybe they did influence 99% of people... it is possible for someone to be influenced by more than one person!

I agree with this, I don't think the original poster meant that 99% of guitarists were ONLY influenced by Ace. I think 99% is probably a high number, but Ace's influence is widespread for sure.

I also agree with the poster that said people either get KISS or they don't. I think it really comes down to when you grew up and what KISS was at that point in their history. If you were born in the early to mid 70s (like me), and you liked rock music, KISS was a band that you knew about and probably liked, if not for the music, then for the image. I was Ace Frehley for halloween in 1980, at the age of 5. I love Les Pauls because that's what Ace played. I started playing guitar years later, partly because I loved Ace (and other guitarists too). And I'm not the only person that felt this way. It was only after I realized that I SUCK at guitar that I picked up drumsticks for the first time, but I digress.

Remember, you don't have to like a band to acknowledge their mark in music. KISS took live shows to an unprecedented level, the makeup and costumes, the lighting, the pyro, all of it. They really did take all that stuff to a higher level than anyone else, and in some cases, they invented it. As much as I love KISS, they don't consistently write amazing songs, but back in the day, the most talented guy in the bunch from a pure playing standpoint was definitely Ace. Loads of musicians have counted him as an influence and while I agree that Sabbath was the biggest influence on metal bands, I would bet that if you asked almost any metal guitarist what they think of Ace, they'd have only good things to say. Guys from Pearl Jam, Skid Row, Pantera, Guns N Roses, and everywhere in between have openly acknowledged their love of KISS and the influence that Ace had on their playing.

By the way, Ace's new CD, Anomaly, is actually really good. And I'm going to see KISS in Tampa this coming Wednesday. But I'm not interested in their new CD. I just want to go see a show like only KISS can put on, even if it's only 2 of the original members.

Exactly, back in the summer of 1979 I saw my first real rock concert and it was KISS at the Cap Centre Md. Even though I wasn't a KISS fan or even a real rock fan than but after seeing that show I was hooked on rock music from that night till now. The staging, the lights, props, explosions volume levels stuff falling from the ceiling was simply amazing to me in my youth. It was 2 shows of this and they rocked the house. I haven't seen them since and they were just here on Wednesday to a half emty crowd of faithful fans Verizon Center in DC. A look back on that stage.. http://www.kissfanshop.de/KissTours/1977USA.htm

They do write some basic songs but to me *Beth* stands out still to this day. That's where I see KISS's influence on rock music comes to more than their influence on other guitarists/musicians. They put a hell of a show if you like that kind of rock today.

Peace

fanch75

FLdrummerboy wrote:

By the way, Ace's new CD, Anomaly, is actually really good. And I'm going to see KISS in Tampa this coming Wednesday. But I'm not interested in their new CD.

First, Ace's new CD Anomaly is great. You are correct.

Second, you should be very interested in KISS's new CD, Sonic Boom. It is great; they were " in the zone" while writing this one, because I expected it to be uninspired and to suck. It's very inspired and is very, very good.

Back_Pedal

Kiss makes me want to set myself on fire.

dcfaithful

Back_Pedal wrote:

Kiss makes me want to set myself on fire.

All the more treason to get front row seats at a KISS concert!!!

dcfaithful

g under p wrote:

Exactly, back in the summer of 1979 I saw my first real rock concert and it was KISS at the Cap Centre Md. Even though I wasn't a KISS fan or even a real rock fan than but after seeing that show I was hooked on rock music from that night till now. The staging, the lights, props, explosions volume levels stuff falling from the ceiling was simply amazing to me in my youth. It was 2 shows of this and they rocked the house. I haven't seen them since and they were just here on Wednesday to a half emty crowd of faithful fans Verizon Center in DC. A look back on that stage.. http://www.kissfanshop.de/KissTours/1977USA.htm

They do write some basic songs but to me *Beth* stands out still to this day. That's where I see KISS's influence on rock music comes to more than their influence on other guitarists/musicians. They put a hell of a show if you like that kind of rock today.

Peace

Awesome link!! Thx!

The only thing I don't like about KISS shows, even though I understand why, is that they have one setlist for the entire tour...but, I do understand that they do this because the whole show is scripted...the lights, the effects, the smoke, fire, explosions, etc... are probably all synchronized perfectly with the songs...which I assume takes a lot of work and they don't want to have to do it differently every night.

iamrockmusic

dcfaithful wrote:

Awesome link!! Thx!

The only thing I don't like about KISS shows, even though I understand why, is that they have one setlist for the entire tour...but, I do understand that they do this because the whole show is scripted...the lights, the effects, the smoke, fire, explosions, etc... are probably all synchronized perfectly with the songs...which I assume takes a lot of work and they don't want to have to do it differently every night.

True, very true. I generally hate it when bands only have one setlist for a whole tour. Rush does the same thing and it makes me nutty because I would go see multiple Rush shows in a tour if I knew I was going to hear more songs each night. Yet, even though I love KISS, I don't mind that they only have one setlist because I'm simply not going to follow them around on tour. At the end of the day, maybe back to my original point, with all the spectacle of a KISS show, it melts your brain when you're there, but if you see it night after night, it probably loses its luster. So I still feel like I get my money's worth and then some...

At the same time, they've been around long enough that if they wanted to, they could easily have different sets each night without too much filler. Hmmmm... maybe you're right...

dcfaithful

FLdrummerboy wrote:

dcfaithful wrote:

Awesome link!! Thx!

The only thing I don't like about KISS shows, even though I understand why, is that they have one setlist for the entire tour...but, I do understand that they do this because the whole show is scripted...the lights, the effects, the smoke, fire, explosions, etc... are probably all synchronized perfectly with the songs...which I assume takes a lot of work and they don't want to have to do it differently every night.

True, very true. I generally hate it when bands only have one setlist for a whole tour. Rush does the same thing and it makes me nutty because I would go see multiple Rush shows in a tour if I knew I was going to hear more songs each night. Yet, even though I love KISS, I don't mind that they only have one setlist because I'm simply not going to follow them around on tour. At the end of the day, maybe back to my original point, with all the spectacle of a KISS show, it melts your brain when you're there, but if you see it night after night, it probably loses its luster. So I still feel like I get my money's worth and then some...

At the same time, they've been around long enough that if they wanted to, they could easily have different sets each night without too much filler. Hmmmm... maybe you're right...

Yeah, all so true...I wouldn't follow KISS because it would just take the thrill away from it...

g under p

dcfaithful wrote:

FLdrummerboy wrote:

dcfaithful wrote:

Awesome link!! Thx!

The only thing I don't like about KISS shows, even though I understand why, is that they have one setlist for the entire tour...but, I do understand that they do this because the whole show is scripted...the lights, the effects, the smoke, fire, explosions, etc... are probably all synchronized perfectly with the songs...which I assume takes a lot of work and they don't want to have to do it differently every night.

True, very true. I generally hate it when bands only have one setlist for a whole tour. Rush does the same thing and it makes me nutty because I would go see multiple Rush shows in a tour if I knew I was going to hear more songs each night. Yet, even though I love KISS, I don't mind that they only have one setlist because I'm simply not going to follow them around on tour. At the end of the day, maybe back to my original point, with all the spectacle of a KISS show, it melts your brain when you're there, but if you see it night after night, it probably loses its luster. So I still feel like I get my money's worth and then some...

At the same time, they've been around long enough that if they wanted to, they could easily have different sets each night without too much filler. Hmmmm... maybe you're right...

Yeah, all so true...I wouldn't follow KISS because it would just take the thrill away from it...

I was going to say RUSH does the same thing in having a set setlist throughout certain sections of tours leg. I've seen them over 30 times since Grace Under Pressure but even with that stiffness with their setlist i still can't get enough. In it's own way each show I can find something new which has challenged my knowledge of their songs which goes along with what new lighting effect they've come up with.

Peace

fanch75

Child, please. C'mon, son!

dcfaithful

Fanch, have you heard the new KISS? Any good? My friend is a die-hard and he says it's bad ass...sounds like something from the 70's (specifically Love Gun) era...

iamrockmusic

My 2 cents here... I have not heard the whole album more than once, but I really liked it. Sounds very modern, but classic at the same time and the quality of the songs is solid. Plus, I have 2 friends that are die-hard KISS fans (more than me) who both say that this is their best album since the original lineup was together. They played Modern Day Delilah (new track) at the show in Tampa last week and it's heavy and very cool... Plus, for once, KISS seem to be getting universally good reviews in the press for the new album; even SPIN gave it good marks. When you combine that with the value: $12 for the new disc, yet ANOTHER greatest hits collection from KISS, and a live DVD from South America last year, that's a great deal... Shows that KISS really is a band all about the fans... I would have expected them to charge $30 for a set like that...

dcfaithful

FLdrummerboy wrote:

My 2 cents here... I have not heard the whole album more than once, but I really liked it. Sounds very modern, but classic at the same time and the quality of the songs is solid. Plus, I have 2 friends that are die-hard KISS fans (more than me) who both say that this is their best album since the original lineup was together. They played Modern Day Delilah (new track) at the show in Tampa last week and it's heavy and very cool... Plus, for once, KISS seem to be getting universally good reviews in the press for the new album; even SPIN gave it good marks. When you combine that with the value: $12 for the new disc, yet ANOTHER greatest hits collection from KISS, and a live DVD from South America last year, that's a great deal... Shows that KISS really is a band all about the fans... I would have expected them to charge $30 for a set like that...

Damn, I was unaware of the deal you get for $12. Is it being sold exclusively @ Wal-Mart? For some reason I thought I had heard that...

iamrockmusic

Yep, they did a Wal-Mart exclusive... Of course, KISS being KISS, the record sale is tied into all kinds of other KISS products: belt buckles, shirts, halloween masks, etc, etc...

You can buy the CD on Wal-Mart's website too, if you're like me and can't stand actually walking into one of their stores... But then you miss the majesty of the KISS Korners... :shock:

dcfaithful

FLdrummerboy wrote:

Yep, they did a Wal-Mart exclusive... Of course, KISS being KISS, the record sale is tied into all kinds of other KISS products: belt buckles, shirts, halloween masks, etc, etc...

You can buy the CD on Wal-Mart's website too, if you're like me and can't stand actually walking into one of their stores... But then you miss the majesty of the KISS Korners... :shock:

The Wal-Mart exclusive sucks...but I'll probably do it. I also can't stand to walk into a store...but I in general hate to give them my money, but they'll get me with this I guess.

...and the KISS Korner...how the hell could I pass that up.

iamrockmusic

dcfaithful wrote:

FLdrummerboy wrote:

Yep, they did a Wal-Mart exclusive... Of course, KISS being KISS, the record sale is tied into all kinds of other KISS products: belt buckles, shirts, halloween masks, etc, etc...

You can buy the CD on Wal-Mart's website too, if you're like me and can't stand actually walking into one of their stores... But then you miss the majesty of the KISS Korners... :shock:

The Wal-Mart exclusive sucks...but I'll probably do it. I also can't stand to walk into a store...but I in general hate to give them my money, but they'll get me with this I guess.

...and the KISS Korner...how the hell could I pass that up.

Marketing geniuses, those boys in KISS... See? They even will get you and me to walk into a store that we hate... :twisted:

fanch75

dcfaithful wrote:

Fanch, have you heard the new KISS? Any good? My friend is a die-hard and he says it's bad ass...sounds like something from the 70's (specifically Love Gun) era...

Yes, it is a very good, solid album. Much of it has that 70's sound, without the album being re-writes of any of those albums from the era. There are a few tunes that echo 80's & 90's era Kiss (Stand, Modern Day Delilah, Say Yeah), but generally it is a 70's-sounding album. THey really did what they set out to do, and it really surpased my expectations - I expected it to suck. But, it very much does not.

dcfaithful

fanch75 wrote:

dcfaithful wrote:

Fanch, have you heard the new KISS? Any good? My friend is a die-hard and he says it's bad ass...sounds like something from the 70's (specifically Love Gun) era...

Yes, it is a very good, solid album. Much of it has that 70's sound, without the album being re-writes of any of those albums from the era. There are a few tunes that echo 80's & 90's era Kiss (Stand, Modern Day Delilah, Say Yeah), but generally it is a 70's-sounding album. THey really did what they set out to do, and it really surpased my expectations - I expected it to suck. But, it very much does not.

Just got this two days ago. I'm loving it...sounds like good, classic KISS. Tommy Thayer's guitar playing is unreal...sounds very great with the rest of the band...he really nailed the KISS sound...