Kiss & Ace Frehley - debate with a friend

Thoughts_Arrive

So my friend is trying to convince me that Ace Frehley influenced 99% of guitarist in rock music today.
And that Kiss had a massive influence in all metal bands today.

I told him no way.
Opinions?

catefrances

and hendrix only influenced the remaining 1%. even i know that doesnt sound right.

titchinello

poeple say that it was eddie van halen, some say it was jimmy paige, some say robert johnson or chuck berry,

truth is there are lots of guitarts that have inspired future guitarists and so on, so in my opinion, there is no one real inspirational guitart. if that makes any sense

Thoughts_Arrive

The debate is getting heated, I was called a tool for dissing Kiss.

dcfaithful

I can be found advocating KISS on this board. I like 'em, but it sounds like your friend takes KISS way more seriously than they really are meant to be. Ace is awesome, no doubt...but I don't think KISS has been that influential on metal bands:

If any ONE band (of course there are more than one) can be noted for having the heaviest influence on metal, I would vote Black Sabbath.

KISS did a favor for rock n' roll, but their impact wasn't that huge...

DewieCox

Ace inspired as many people to pick up the guitar as anybody.

When it comes to the music, not so much.

jimed14

I agree with the last two statements, pretty much what I would have said.

intodeep

jimed14 wrote:

I agree with the last two statements, pretty much what I would have said.

I'll piggy back on this too as i don't have much else to offer that was not said in those two.

Cosmo

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

So my friend is trying to convince me that Ace Frehley influenced 99% of guitarist in rock music today.
And that Kiss had a massive influence in all metal bands today.

I told him no way.
Opinions?

...
if this were true... wouldn't 99% of metal bands sound like KIZZ?

Get_Right

Well
I would not say that kiss had a strictly musical influence
I dont think there are two many musicians out there that emulate the the musical styling of kiss

but I would say they made a lot of people want to become rock stars (ask a 13 year old in 1980 what they want to be when they grow up-a member of kiss was probably pretty high on the list) and to have more elaborate concert effects
they did make going to a show about more than just music

tybird

No way, eh.....anybody influencing 99% of anything is quite a stretch.

kenny olav

I can't even think of one Ace Frehley solo that I would consider impressive. They had a few fun songs, and that's about it.

Evacuation Rules

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

The debate is getting heated, I was called a tool for dissing Kiss.

Kiss totally blows. They were the Poison/Bon Jovi of the 70's. The only tool in this situation is your friend.

RD171825

Your friend has no credibility simply because he likes Kiss.

DewieCox

Evacuation Rules wrote:

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

The debate is getting heated, I was called a tool for dissing Kiss.

Kiss totally blows. They were the Poison/Bon Jovi of the 70's.

I think that's overstating it quite a bit.

dcfaithful

DewieCox wrote:

Evacuation Rules wrote:

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

The debate is getting heated, I was called a tool for dissing Kiss.

Kiss totally blows. They were the Poison/Bon Jovi of the 70's.

I think that's overstating it quite a bit.

I'd agree, but people have a love/hate relationship with KISS...not very many "I like em" fans. I think KISS is a band that you either get it or you don't I guess.

jimed14

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl2ZzDpSrKw

Jennytree

Maybe they did influence 99% of people... it is possible for someone to be influenced by more than one person!

iamrockmusic

Jennytree wrote:

Maybe they did influence 99% of people... it is possible for someone to be influenced by more than one person!

I agree with this, I don't think the original poster meant that 99% of guitarists were ONLY influenced by Ace. I think 99% is probably a high number, but Ace's influence is widespread for sure.

I also agree with the poster that said people either get KISS or they don't. I think it really comes down to when you grew up and what KISS was at that point in their history. If you were born in the early to mid 70s (like me), and you liked rock music, KISS was a band that you knew about and probably liked, if not for the music, then for the image. I was Ace Frehley for halloween in 1980, at the age of 5. I love Les Pauls because that's what Ace played. I started playing guitar years later, partly because I loved Ace (and other guitarists too). And I'm not the only person that felt this way. It was only after I realized that I SUCK at guitar that I picked up drumsticks for the first time, but I digress.

Remember, you don't have to like a band to acknowledge their mark in music. KISS took live shows to an unprecedented level, the makeup and costumes, the lighting, the pyro, all of it. They really did take all that stuff to a higher level than anyone else, and in some cases, they invented it. As much as I love KISS, they don't consistently write amazing songs, but back in the day, the most talented guy in the bunch from a pure playing standpoint was definitely Ace. Loads of musicians have counted him as an influence and while I agree that Sabbath was the biggest influence on metal bands, I would bet that if you asked almost any metal guitarist what they think of Ace, they'd have only good things to say. Guys from Pearl Jam, Skid Row, Pantera, Guns N Roses, and everywhere in between have openly acknowledged their love of KISS and the influence that Ace had on their playing.

By the way, Ace's new CD, Anomaly, is actually really good. And I'm going to see KISS in Tampa this coming Wednesday. But I'm not interested in their new CD. I just want to go see a show like only KISS can put on, even if it's only 2 of the original members.

dcfaithful

FLdrummerboy wrote:

Jennytree wrote:

Maybe they did influence 99% of people... it is possible for someone to be influenced by more than one person!

I agree with this, I don't think the original poster meant that 99% of guitarists were ONLY influenced by Ace. I think 99% is probably a high number, but Ace's influence is widespread for sure.

I also agree with the poster that said people either get KISS or they don't. I think it really comes down to when you grew up and what KISS was at that point in their history. If you were born in the early to mid 70s (like me), and you liked rock music, KISS was a band that you knew about and probably liked, if not for the music, then for the image. I was Ace Frehley for halloween in 1980, at the age of 5. I love Les Pauls because that's what Ace played. I started playing guitar years later, partly because I loved Ace (and other guitarists too). And I'm not the only person that felt this way. It was only after I realized that I SUCK at guitar that I picked up drumsticks for the first time, but I digress.

Remember, you don't have to like a band to acknowledge their mark in music. KISS took live shows to an unprecedented level, the makeup and costumes, the lighting, the pyro, all of it. They really did take all that stuff to a higher level than anyone else, and in some cases, they invented it. As much as I love KISS, they don't consistently write amazing songs, but back in the day, the most talented guy in the bunch from a pure playing standpoint was definitely Ace. Loads of musicians have counted him as an influence and while I agree that Sabbath was the biggest influence on metal bands, I would bet that if you asked almost any metal guitarist what they think of Ace, they'd have only good things to say. Guys from Pearl Jam, Skid Row, Pantera, Guns N Roses, and everywhere in between have openly acknowledged their love of KISS and the influence that Ace had on their playing.

By the way, Ace's new CD, Anomaly, is actually really good. And I'm going to see KISS in Tampa this coming Wednesday. But I'm not interested in their new CD. I just want to go see a show like only KISS can put on, even if it's only 2 of the original members.

Great post, with all the right points being made. like I said, you like KISS or you don't, but the fact that they definitely changed the idea of a concert experience can't be ignored.

Have fun seeing them in Tampa! (shouldn't be too hard ) I really wish they'd make it to SLC...I can't afford to go see them in Vegas

Gossard_Is_God

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

So my friend is trying to convince me that Ace Frehley influenced 99% of guitarist in rock music today.
And that Kiss had a massive influence in all metal bands today.

I told him no way.
Opinions?

This is Correct!!!!!!

iamrockmusic

Gossard_Is_God wrote:

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

So my friend is trying to convince me that Ace Frehley influenced 99% of guitarist in rock music today.
And that Kiss had a massive influence in all metal bands today.

I told him no way.
Opinions?

This is Correct!!!!!!

You agree that KISS and Ace were big influences? Or you think their contribution to music history has been minimal?

fanch75

Kenny Olav wrote:

I can't even think of one Ace Frehley solo that I would consider impressive. They had a few fun songs, and that's about it.

This statement hurts me.

fanch75

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

So my friend is trying to convince me that Ace Frehley influenced 99% of guitarist in rock music today.
And that Kiss had a massive influence in all metal bands today.

I told him no way.
Opinions?

99%? I would just say, "Come on, son. Chiiiild, please."

Ace is a guitar GOD and no doubt did he influence a lot of people to play guitar in the late 80's and 90's. Today, I don't know. But Kiss rule and ACE has tons of soul is his playing.

Ace is not a lyricist nor is he known for being a prolific songwriter...but he's known for some great solos and for writing some great songs. Kiss (as Gene, Paul, Pe-*cough*-ter, and ACE), were and still are legends. Their new album totally captures what they set out for, which is a rock and roll 70's vibe that doesn't sound like it was recorded in the 70's. It's great. Ace's latest solo album (released last month) is great, too.

g under p

FLdrummerboy wrote:

Jennytree wrote:

Maybe they did influence 99% of people... it is possible for someone to be influenced by more than one person!

I agree with this, I don't think the original poster meant that 99% of guitarists were ONLY influenced by Ace. I think 99% is probably a high number, but Ace's influence is widespread for sure.

I also agree with the poster that said people either get KISS or they don't. I think it really comes down to when you grew up and what KISS was at that point in their history. If you were born in the early to mid 70s (like me), and you liked rock music, KISS was a band that you knew about and probably liked, if not for the music, then for the image. I was Ace Frehley for halloween in 1980, at the age of 5. I love Les Pauls because that's what Ace played. I started playing guitar years later, partly because I loved Ace (and other guitarists too). And I'm not the only person that felt this way. It was only after I realized that I SUCK at guitar that I picked up drumsticks for the first time, but I digress.

Remember, you don't have to like a band to acknowledge their mark in music. KISS took live shows to an unprecedented level, the makeup and costumes, the lighting, the pyro, all of it. They really did take all that stuff to a higher level than anyone else, and in some cases, they invented it. As much as I love KISS, they don't consistently write amazing songs, but back in the day, the most talented guy in the bunch from a pure playing standpoint was definitely Ace. Loads of musicians have counted him as an influence and while I agree that Sabbath was the biggest influence on metal bands, I would bet that if you asked almost any metal guitarist what they think of Ace, they'd have only good things to say. Guys from Pearl Jam, Skid Row, Pantera, Guns N Roses, and everywhere in between have openly acknowledged their love of KISS and the influence that Ace had on their playing.

By the way, Ace's new CD, Anomaly, is actually really good. And I'm going to see KISS in Tampa this coming Wednesday. But I'm not interested in their new CD. I just want to go see a show like only KISS can put on, even if it's only 2 of the original members.

Exactly, back in the summer of 1979 I saw my first real rock concert and it was KISS at the Cap Centre Md. Even though I wasn't a KISS fan or even a real rock fan than but after seeing that show I was hooked on rock music from that night till now. The staging, the lights, props, explosions volume levels stuff falling from the ceiling was simply amazing to me in my youth. It was 2 shows of this and they rocked the house. I haven't seen them since and they were just here on Wednesday to a half emty crowd of faithful fans Verizon Center in DC. A look back on that stage.. http://www.kissfanshop.de/KissTours/1977USA.htm

They do write some basic songs but to me *Beth* stands out still to this day. That's where I see KISS's influence on rock music comes to more than their influence on other guitarists/musicians. They put a hell of a show if you like that kind of rock today.

Peace

fanch75

FLdrummerboy wrote:

By the way, Ace's new CD, Anomaly, is actually really good. And I'm going to see KISS in Tampa this coming Wednesday. But I'm not interested in their new CD.

First, Ace's new CD Anomaly is great. You are correct.

Second, you should be very interested in KISS's new CD, Sonic Boom. It is great; they were " in the zone" while writing this one, because I expected it to be uninspired and to suck. It's very inspired and is very, very good.

Back_Pedal

Kiss makes me want to set myself on fire.

dcfaithful

Back_Pedal wrote:

Kiss makes me want to set myself on fire.

All the more treason to get front row seats at a KISS concert!!!

dcfaithful

g under p wrote:

Exactly, back in the summer of 1979 I saw my first real rock concert and it was KISS at the Cap Centre Md. Even though I wasn't a KISS fan or even a real rock fan than but after seeing that show I was hooked on rock music from that night till now. The staging, the lights, props, explosions volume levels stuff falling from the ceiling was simply amazing to me in my youth. It was 2 shows of this and they rocked the house. I haven't seen them since and they were just here on Wednesday to a half emty crowd of faithful fans Verizon Center in DC. A look back on that stage.. http://www.kissfanshop.de/KissTours/1977USA.htm

They do write some basic songs but to me *Beth* stands out still to this day. That's where I see KISS's influence on rock music comes to more than their influence on other guitarists/musicians. They put a hell of a show if you like that kind of rock today.

Peace

Awesome link!! Thx!

The only thing I don't like about KISS shows, even though I understand why, is that they have one setlist for the entire tour...but, I do understand that they do this because the whole show is scripted...the lights, the effects, the smoke, fire, explosions, etc... are probably all synchronized perfectly with the songs...which I assume takes a lot of work and they don't want to have to do it differently every night.

iamrockmusic

dcfaithful wrote:

Awesome link!! Thx!

The only thing I don't like about KISS shows, even though I understand why, is that they have one setlist for the entire tour...but, I do understand that they do this because the whole show is scripted...the lights, the effects, the smoke, fire, explosions, etc... are probably all synchronized perfectly with the songs...which I assume takes a lot of work and they don't want to have to do it differently every night.

True, very true. I generally hate it when bands only have one setlist for a whole tour. Rush does the same thing and it makes me nutty because I would go see multiple Rush shows in a tour if I knew I was going to hear more songs each night. Yet, even though I love KISS, I don't mind that they only have one setlist because I'm simply not going to follow them around on tour. At the end of the day, maybe back to my original point, with all the spectacle of a KISS show, it melts your brain when you're there, but if you see it night after night, it probably loses its luster. So I still feel like I get my money's worth and then some...

At the same time, they've been around long enough that if they wanted to, they could easily have different sets each night without too much filler. Hmmmm... maybe you're right...

dcfaithful

FLdrummerboy wrote:

dcfaithful wrote:

Awesome link!! Thx!

The only thing I don't like about KISS shows, even though I understand why, is that they have one setlist for the entire tour...but, I do understand that they do this because the whole show is scripted...the lights, the effects, the smoke, fire, explosions, etc... are probably all synchronized perfectly with the songs...which I assume takes a lot of work and they don't want to have to do it differently every night.

True, very true. I generally hate it when bands only have one setlist for a whole tour. Rush does the same thing and it makes me nutty because I would go see multiple Rush shows in a tour if I knew I was going to hear more songs each night. Yet, even though I love KISS, I don't mind that they only have one setlist because I'm simply not going to follow them around on tour. At the end of the day, maybe back to my original point, with all the spectacle of a KISS show, it melts your brain when you're there, but if you see it night after night, it probably loses its luster. So I still feel like I get my money's worth and then some...

At the same time, they've been around long enough that if they wanted to, they could easily have different sets each night without too much filler. Hmmmm... maybe you're right...

Yeah, all so true...I wouldn't follow KISS because it would just take the thrill away from it...