Columbus Day

2

Comments

  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    Basically, the ONLY people who celebrate this are our lazy, worthless government. Heck, I even heard yesterday that since it was such a worthless holiday, some government factions have decided to just MOVE the day off to around the Christmas break.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    the main issue here is that what kids are learning in school is watered down history ...
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    polaris_x wrote:
    the main issue here is that what kids are learning in school is watered down history ...
    right. watered down and just wrong.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,959
    polaris_x wrote:
    the main issue here is that what kids are learning in school is watered down history ...


    Just wondering...at what age do you thnk children should learn of the raping, cutting off hands, etc.?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    cincybearcat wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    the main issue here is that what kids are learning in school is watered down history ...


    Just wondering...at what age do you thnk children should learn of the raping, cutting off hands, etc.?

    ha ... i dunno ... but at what age do you stop sugarcoating a not-so pretty history?
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    I like how every years, we have a Columbus Day thread where a few people (mostly non-US residents) complain about us celebrating this evil man.

    It's a low level holiday where the banks & schools are closed, there is no mail, and some companies give their employees a day off... It's nothing more at this point. Hell, I just went to Hallmark.com and searched for Columbus day, and got no results. If the greeting card industry doesn't market it, you know it's a lame holiday.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    blackredyellow wrote:
    I like how every years, we have a Columbus Day thread where a few people (mostly non-US residents) complain about us celebrating this evil man.

    It's a low level holiday where the banks & schools are closed, there is no mail, and some companies give their employees a day off... It's nothing more at this point. Hell, I just went to Hallmark.com and searched for Columbus day, and got no results. If the greeting card industry doesn't market it, you know it's a lame holiday.

    i believe the OP is american ... if you goto hallmark.com - you won't find any card for labor day either ... just because most people don't actually celectrate columbus - it still is a bit of a slap in the face to the people that were here first ...
  • he still stands
    he still stands Posts: 2,835
    I don't think it is news to most people that Columbus didn't really do much, or anything, to deserve a national holiday.

    Yes, there were Viking settlements in Newfoundland I think around 1000 CE. (Year 2706 of our Lady Discord, 969 years before the Era of Tranquility).

    There is evidence of trade between the Egyptians and Mayans (Incans?) 2000 years before that. (see coca and coffee remnants - not found outside S. America - found in Egyptian tombs)

    So, it seems that the Americas were discovered AT LEAST 500 years before Columbus and probably more like 2500 years before Columbus... not to mention the fact that people traveled across Asia 25,000 years ago and discovered the Americas.
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • Dirtie_Frank
    Dirtie_Frank Posts: 1,348
    I think the reason for the "celebration" is that he made Europe aware of the new land. Without his "discovery" many of us might not be here. Do I agree with celebrating, not sure, but hey a day off is better then a day at work.
    96 Randall's Island II
    98 CAA
    00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
    05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
    06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
    08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
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  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,959
    polaris_x wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    the main issue here is that what kids are learning in school is watered down history ...


    Just wondering...at what age do you thnk children should learn of the raping, cutting off hands, etc.?

    ha ... i dunno ... but at what age do you stop sugarcoating a not-so pretty history?


    Ummm...that's the question I just asked you. :lol:

    I get your point, I was really just wondering when some of you here would propose to teach the 100% truth.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Solat13
    Solat13 Posts: 6,996
    I'm just annoyed there was no Columbus Day parade in Philly this year which is a big Italian American holiday in South Philly. I guess after 50 years of uncontested Democratic rule (which to many here would be a utopia but in reality is the murder capital of America), the city is finally bankrupt. The New Year's Day parade and St. Patrick's Day parade were almost canceled earlier this year too. And the Steuben's Day, Pulaski Day and Puerto Rican Day parades were cut in half.
    - Busted down the pretext
    - 8/28/98
    - 9/2/00
    - 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
    - 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
    - 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
    - 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
    - 8/2/07, 8/5/07
    - 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
    - 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
    - 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
    - 9/11/11, 9/12/11
    - 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
  • he still stands
    he still stands Posts: 2,835
    cincybearcat wrote:
    I get your point, I was really just wondering when some of you here would propose to teach the 100% truth.

    I know this was for someone else... but my answer would be TODAY. Yes, including all the stuff that would be uncomfortable... as long as it is relevant.
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    he still stands wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    I get your point, I was really just wondering when some of you here would propose to teach the 100% truth.

    I know this was for someone else... but my answer would be TODAY. Yes, including all the stuff that would be uncomfortable... as long as it is relevant.

    Not at what date, but at what age? Should we teach 2nd graders about raping and pillaging?
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • tybird
    tybird Posts: 17,388
    he still stands wrote:
    I don't think it is news to most people that Columbus didn't really do much, or anything, to deserve a national holiday.

    Yes, there were Viking settlements in Newfoundland I think around 1000 CE. (Year 2706 of our Lady Discord, 969 years before the Era of Tranquility).

    There is evidence of trade between the Egyptians and Mayans (Incans?) 2000 years before that. (see coca and coffee remnants - not found outside S. America - found in Egyptian tombs)

    So, it seems that the Americas were discovered AT LEAST 500 years before Columbus and probably more like 2500 years before Columbus... not to mention the fact that people traveled across Asia 25,000 years ago and discovered the Americas.
    ...and it's possible that the Chinese were here before the Europeans....but the reason that Columbus's voyages matter is that they began the mass-movement of Europeans to the continents...and the extinction of many of the natives. Everybody else came and went without making a permanent mark (e.g. the Vikings).
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Ummm...that's the question I just asked you. :lol:

    I get your point, I was really just wondering when some of you here would propose to teach the 100% truth.

    my answer would be high school ...
  • he still stands
    he still stands Posts: 2,835
    tybird wrote:
    he still stands wrote:
    I don't think it is news to most people that Columbus didn't really do much, or anything, to deserve a national holiday.

    Yes, there were Viking settlements in Newfoundland I think around 1000 CE. (Year 2706 of our Lady Discord, 969 years before the Era of Tranquility).

    There is evidence of trade between the Egyptians and Mayans (Incans?) 2000 years before that. (see coca and coffee remnants - not found outside S. America - found in Egyptian tombs)

    So, it seems that the Americas were discovered AT LEAST 500 years before Columbus and probably more like 2500 years before Columbus... not to mention the fact that people traveled across Asia 25,000 years ago and discovered the Americas.
    ...and it's possible that the Chinese were here before the Europeans....but the reason that Columbus's voyages matter is that they began the mass-movement of Europeans to the continents...and the extinction of many of the natives. Everybody else came and went without making a permanent mark (e.g. the Vikings).

    yeah I would agree that his voyages "matter" in that regard, but I said that he "didn't really do much, or anything, to deserve a national holiday."
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • tybird
    tybird Posts: 17,388
    he still stands wrote:
    yeah I would agree that his voyages "matter" in that regard, but I said that he "didn't really do much, or anything, to deserve a national holiday."
    Take that up with the Italian-American lobby or the Roman Catholic lobby or the Knights of Columbus lobby....Most of us had no say in the matter. :twisted:
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • he still stands
    he still stands Posts: 2,835
    tybird wrote:
    he still stands wrote:
    yeah I would agree that his voyages "matter" in that regard, but I said that he "didn't really do much, or anything, to deserve a national holiday."
    Take that up with the Italian-American lobby or the Roman Catholic lobby or the Knights of Columbus lobby....Most of us had no say in the matter. :twisted:

    we don't do anything around here to make changes... we just bitch ;)
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • tybird
    tybird Posts: 17,388
    he still stands wrote:
    tybird wrote:
    he still stands wrote:
    yeah I would agree that his voyages "matter" in that regard, but I said that he "didn't really do much, or anything, to deserve a national holiday."
    Take that up with the Italian-American lobby or the Roman Catholic lobby or the Knights of Columbus lobby....Most of us had no say in the matter. :twisted:

    we don't do anything around here to make changes... we just bitch ;)
    Not bitching about anything....only reason that I was off is because Monday is my scheduled day off anyway....hell, Columbus Day is so far off the radar...that the best way to deal with it is to ignore it...just another paid "holiday" that government employees get instead of a pay raise.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • musicismylife78
    musicismylife78 Posts: 6,116
    And as I pointed out, Columbus's actions have ramifications even today. From the prison sentence of Lenoard Peltier
    I'm not seeing the link between Columbus and an FBI shootout in North Dakota


    the link between columbus and the modern day enslavement and degradation of native americans I think is pretty damn self evident.

    A society and culture that disrespects and treats native americans as less than human and worthy of being slaughtered, is the same culture whether we are in the 1400's or are in 2009.

    As I said, the Fighting Illinis and their supporters, or the supporters who think that the mascot and the dance the mascot performs are acceptable, are essentially doing the same thing that people did in Columbus' day, which is to make the Native American the other, to marginalize, trivialize and exploit the Native American culture.

    If you are willing to have a mascot and dance that completely degrades a culture, it isnt a huge leap to not care when a Native American named Leonard Peltier spends 20 plus years in jail.

    A former friend of the family who was active in trying to free Peltier once told me that she had spoken to the FBI and police involved in this case, and that they had admitted that Peltier was innocent and that they knew this, and frankly didnt care.

    The line from Columbus to the modern day, with all its capitalist exploitation, globalization, environmental degradation, is a straight line

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