H1N1 vaccine - Should we Leap before we Look?

OutOfBreath

Natural news also put out stuff like this:

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(NaturalNews) Everywhere in western medicine you find the Caduceus symbol: It's the staff entwined with two serpents, with wings at the top. You'll find it emblazoned on medical texts, medical school certificates, medical websites and even in hospitals and medical buildings.

But what does the symbol mean, exactly? I decided to conduct a bit of research to find out some possibilities.

The Caduceus, it turns out, was a staff carried by the Greek god Hermes. Hermes is best known as the messenger of the gods, but he is also well known as the protector of liars, gamblers and thieves. He's also prominently known as the guide of the dead.

According to Wikipedia, the name of the staff, Caduceus, is adapted from the Greek word kerukeion, which means "herald's wand" -- the staff of the public messenger. It's related to the words kerux and kerusso, which pertain to someone who announces information to the public.

From a Biblical point of view, the two serpents on the staff are, of course, symbols of evil and deception. There is a Greek myth about the two serpents on the staff which states that Tiresias found two snakes copulating and he beat to death the female snake with his staff.

So far, then, we have a staff carried by the Greek god Hermes, a protector of liars and thieves (who is also the guide of the dead), named as a staff or wand related to announcing information to the public, encircled by two serpents representing evil, and tied to yet another Greek myth about the female being beat to death.

This is the symbol of modern-day western medicine.

The evil of western medicine revealed
The part about the female being beaten to death is especially relevant, given how our male-dominated western medical system considers virtually all female physiology to be disease (pregnancy, menstruation, etc.). Women are treated like animals in many ways, through endless breast cancer screening and mandatory HPV vaccines. Female organs are considered useless or disease-ridden, such as when hysterectomies are performed to remove women's "hysteria" (madness). That's where the name "hysterectomy" actually comes from, of course.

That the two snakes representing evil would encircle the staff of public announcement could be an indication that the purpose of the staff is to announce evil (the propaganda of western medicine). At the same time, the mythological carrier of the staff is the protector of liars and thieves (the drug promoters and drug companies).

Once you understand the symbology, it becomes quite evident that this prominent symbol of western medicine was not chosen by chance: It sends a powerful subconscious message, much like the symbols of secret societies used on dollar bills, for example (the all-seeing eye floating above the pyramid on the back of the dollar bill). It might even be said that, through the repetition of this symbol which adorns the most important documents and texts used in the medical schools, doctors are, in a very true sense, being continuously indoctrinated with the powerful symbols of evil and death.

Once these impressionable young doctors graduate from their medical schools, they are given the tools of death to "treat" patients: Chemotherapy poisons, toxic pharmaceuticals, scalpels and radiation machines. They slice off women's breasts and call it "cancer prevention." They poison children's brains with chemicals and call it "medicine." They damage and destroy key organs like the heart, liver, kidneys and brain through the forced application of toxic chemotherapy agents, sometimes at gunpoint (as with the case of Daniel Hauser).

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Pity I couldn't read the rest. I'm just holding my breath for the inevitable Bilderberg/Satan/Nazi pitch.

I know that for me, I will take the word of trained doctors over some conspiracy loons when it comes to medical advice.

Peace
Dan

g under p

From Slate Magazine...



Peace

Sludge Factory

I just came across this today. I've never heard of the website before, but maybe someone from Sweden is on this board and they might have more information on how substantiated this news article is:

http://blogs.healthfreedomalliance.org/ ... ted-death/

Nurses Got Sick From the Swine Flu Vaccine in Sweden • UPDATE - 190 Adverse Reactions 1 Suspected Death
Filed Under Pandemic, Vaccines
Yesterday 30 people had been reporting to the authorities in Sweden that they experienced such severe side effects that they felt the need to contact a hospital. Today the number is 140. The swedish newspaper Expressen is the only one in Sweden reporting on these cases and as usual this is most likely only the tip of a rather large iceberg. UPDATE: According to Dagens Nyheter, the number of reported side effects are now a few hours later 190. 1 person dies after the injection but “no direct relation with the injection has been established”. The biggest medical scandal in the history of Sweden has just started.

Even so, Annika Linde, director of The Swedish Institute for Infectious Disease Control (SMI) manages to spin this into something positive by stating “The vaccine has more side effects than the normal flu vaccine. It is a sign that proves that it gives an effective protection.”

Thousands of Swedes have been vaccinated so far and the reports of side effects are “flooding in” to The Swedish Institute for Infectious Disease Control (SMI). Annika Linde: “It is obviously so that the vaccine against the swine flu results in more side effects than the normal flu vaccines. That is because the swine flu vaccine contains adjuvants, shark liver oil, which triggers the immune defense to respond. That also results in that the protection against the virus becomes better.”

Several severe cases of allergic reactions are reported to the unit for medicinal safety. “So far the reported side effects are not unexpected”, says Gunilla Sjölin Forsberg. This unit has now asked some of the many units that vaccinate to report side effects to better get a grip on the situation. This statement alone is shocking since according to normal practice, all side effects should automatically be reported - right?

A nurse who took the shot on wednesday last week is still feeling sick. She got high fever and shivers from the swine flu shot. “-I was shaking in my whole body. It was so sever that I could not even hold a glass of water in my hand.”, Lotta Lindström says.

“- I am now thinking about what it is I have been injected with. I really was affected. It feels really unpleasant.”

De blev sjuka av vaccinet - Hälsa - Expressen.se

Maria Strindlund is not so sure she made the right choice to tae the shot. She also got a severe fever and shivering reaction. “- Since I work as a nurse, I decided it was the best thing to do.”, she says. At first she felt nothing from the vaccinaton, but a few hours later the side effects kicked in. “- I got a extreme pain in my arm. I could no longer lift it.” The came the fever and the shivering. ” _ I was lying in bed shivering and was feeling very cold and stood in a hot shower to get warm.” She says many colleguse who also took the vaccine have had similar reactons. She has been taking many vaccines in the past without any reactions whatsoever.

Maria, 27: “Fick fruktansvärt ont” - Hälsa - Expressen.se

Rebecka Andersson was the first person to get the shot in Sweden. She became feverish and felt sick to her stomach from the shot. ” - I lost all energy”, she says. “-I am normally never sick so I understood it must be the vaccine.” Her class mates was vaccinated at the same time and she states that five out of nineteen also got sick from the swine flu vaccine.

Rebecka, 32: “Jag blev orkeslös” - Hälsa - Expressen.se

Lotta Lindström, a nurse, states that she got the shot a week ago and still is not well. “- It feels very worrying”, she says. “- I did not sleep anything the night after the shot since the pain in my arm was so severe.” The day after, at work, the fever came. She later had headaches. She still today, a week after the shot feels sick.

Lotta, 49: “Jag sov inte något på natten” - Hälsa - Expressen.se

Another nurse, Jennely, could hardly walk five meters after she got sick from the “swine flu” vaccination. She was completely healthy when she got the shot but the day after she had 39 degrees centigrade fever (102.2 F). “- I could hardly walk the five meters I had to the bathroom”, she says. The fever lasted for three days. sevreal of her colugueges at work had similar experiences. “- I know of at least ten that got fever , we are about 80 people at my workplace.”

Jennely, 26: “Orkade knappt gå fem meter” - Hälsa - Expressen.se

Johan Niklasson

Sludge Factory

This is interesting as a lady at the office I work at was told she had H1N1 (she's healthy and back to work now) so it would be a bit interesting if she actually didn't have it and is still susceptible to getting it later on. We did just have our seasonal flu shots here and I know she got one. Sometimes people get sick right after getting one of those, but apparently they actually did a test on her from what I understand. I don't know the details, but it sounds like they did a swab of the tissue pretty far up in her nasal cavaties. Any of the doctors or nurses on this board know if that is how they test for the H1N1?

Anyway, onto the article about how apparently the CDC says it isn't necessary to even test for H1N1 anymore (personally I think it would be a good idea to track it)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/ ... 4829.shtml

CBS) If you've been diagnosed "probable" or "presumed" 2009 H1N1 or "swine flu" in recent months, you may be surprised to know this: odds are you didn’t have H1N1 flu.

In fact, you probably didn’t have flu at all. That's according to state-by-state test results obtained in a three-month-long CBS News investigation.

The ramifications of this finding are important. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and Britain's National Health Service, once you have H1N1 flu, you're immune from future outbreaks of the same virus. Those who think they've had H1N1 flu -- but haven't -- might mistakenly presume they're immune. As a result, they might skip taking a vaccine that could help them, and expose themselves to others with H1N1 flu under the mistaken belief they won't catch it. Parents might not keep sick children home from school, mistakenly believing they've already had H1N1 flu.

Why the uncertainty about who has and who hasn't had H1N1 flu?

CBSNews.com report on H1N1

In late July, the CDC abruptly advised states to stop testing for H1N1 flu, and stopped counting individual cases. The rationale given for the CDC guidance to forego testing and tracking individual cases was: why waste resources testing for H1N1 flu when the government has already confirmed there's an epidemic?

Some public health officials privately disagreed with the decision to stop testing and counting, telling CBS News that continued tracking of this new and possibly changing virus was important because H1N1 has a different epidemiology, affects younger people more than seasonal flu and has been shown to have a higher case fatality rate than other flu virus strains.

CBS News learned that the decision to stop counting H1N1 flu cases was made so hastily that states weren't given the opportunity to provide input. Instead, on July 24, the Council for State and Territorial Epidemiologists, CSTE, issued the following notice to state public health officials on behalf of the CDC:

"Attached are the Q&As that will be posted on the CDC website tomorrow explaining why CDC is no longer reporting case counts for novel H1N1. CDC would have liked to have run these by you for input but unfortunately there was not enough time before these needed to be posted (emphasis added)."

When CDC did not provide us with the material, we filed a Freedom of Information request with the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). More than two months later, the request has not been fulfilled. We also asked CDC for state-by-state test results prior to halting of testing and tracking, but CDC was again, initially, unresponsive.


Watch CBS News Videos Online

Video above: A CBS News producer asks the director of the CDC, Dr. Thomas Frieden, for this information at a press conference on Sept. 19.

While we waited for CDC to provide the data, which it eventually did, we asked all 50 states for their statistics on state lab-confirmed H1N1 prior to the halt of individual testing and counting in July. The results reveal a pattern that surprised a number of health care professionals we consulted. The vast majority of cases were negative for H1N1 as well as seasonal flu, despite the fact that many states were specifically testing patients deemed to be most likely to have H1N1 flu, based on symptoms and risk factors, such as travel to Mexico.


(CBS)
It’s unknown what patients who tested negative for flu were actually afflicted with since the illness was not otherwise determined. Health experts say it’s assumed the patients had some sort of cold or upper respiratory infection that is just not influenza.

With most cases diagnosed solely on symptoms and risk factors, the H1N1 flu epidemic may seem worse than it is. For example, on Sept. 22, this alarming headline came from Georgetown University in Washington D.C.: "H1N1 Flu Infects Over 250 Georgetown Students."

H1N1 flu can be deadly and an outbreak of 250 students would be an especially troubling cluster. However, the number of sick students came not from lab-confirmed tests but from "estimates" made by counting "students who went to the Student Health Center with flu symptoms, students who called the H1N1 hotline or the Health Center's doctor-on-call, and students who went to the hospital's emergency room."

Without lab testing, it's impossible to know how many of the students actually had H1N1 flu. But the statistical trend indicates it was likely much fewer than 250.

CDC continues to monitor flu in general and H1N1 through "sentinels," which basically act as spot-checks to detect trends around the nation. But at least one state, California, has found value in tracking H1N1 flu in greater detail.

"What we are doing is much more detailed and expensive than what CDC wants," said Dr. Bela Matyas, California's Acting Chief of Emergency Preparedness and Response. "We're gathering data better to answer how severe is the illness. With CDC's fallback position, there are so many uncertainties with who's being counted, it's hard to know how much we're seeing is due to H1N1 flu rather than a mix of influenza diseases generally. We can tell that apart but they can't."

After our conversation with Dr. Matyas, public affairs officials with the California Department of Public Health emphasized to CBS News that they support CDC policy to stop counting individual cases, maintaining that the state has the resources to gather more specific testing data than the CDC.

Because of the uncertainties, the CDC advises even those who were told they had H1N1 to get vaccinated unless they had lab confirmation. "Persons who are uncertain about how they were diagnosed should get the 2009 H1N1 vaccine."

That's unwelcome news for a Marietta, Georgia mom whose two children were diagnosed with "probable" H1N1 flu over the summer. She hoped that would mean they wouldn't need the hastily developed H1N1 flu vaccine. However, since their cases were never confirmed with lab tests, the CDC advises they get the vaccine. "I wish they had tested and that I knew for sure whether they had it. I'm not anxious to give them an experimental vaccine if they don't need it."

Speaking to CBS' "60 Minutes," CDC Director Dr. Frieden said he has confidence that the vaccine will be safe and effective: "We're confident it will be effective we have every reason to believe that it will be safe."

However, the CDC recommendation for those who had "probable" or "presumed" H1N1 flu to go ahead and get vaccinated anyway means the relatively small proportion of those who actually did have H1N1 flu will be getting the vaccine unnecessarily. This exposes them to rare but significant side effects, such as paralysis from Guillain-Barre syndrome.

It also uses up vaccine, which is said to be in short supply. The CDC was hoping to have shipped 40 million doses by the end of October, but only about 30 million doses will be available this month.

The CDC did not response to questions from CBS News for this report.

decides2dream

In late July, the CDC abruptly advised states to stop testing for H1N1 flu, and stopped counting individual cases. The rationale given for the CDC guidance to forego testing and tracking individual cases was: why waste resources testing for H1N1 flu when the government has already confirmed there's an epidemic?



that is all kinds of fucked up.

Sludge Factory

decides2dream wrote:

In late July, the CDC abruptly advised states to stop testing for H1N1 flu, and stopped counting individual cases. The rationale given for the CDC guidance to forego testing and tracking individual cases was: why waste resources testing for H1N1 flu when the government has already confirmed there's an epidemic?



that is all kinds of fucked up.

That's what I was thinking. It just screams to me that they want to be able to cover things up just in case it really isn't the epidemic they now say it is. I would think if we are in an epidemic it would be a good idea to track things.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

a married couple that we are friends with have two kids the same age as us; one 3 year old and one 2 month old. Her father is a respected physician in Toronto. She called him for his opinion on this. He said "Health Canada tells me I have to tell all my patients to get the vaccine for H1N1, but speaking as a father/grandfather, I would not let anyone give that to my grandkids. It has quite simply not been sufficiently tested for me to be confident in its safety".

I was already somewhat apprehensive about it (as I'm always leary of taking any pharmaceuticals-I prefer my body to work it out on its own if it's not definitively life-threatening), but if a doctor of 30 years tells his own kid not to vaccinate herself or her children, then it kind of tells me I'm on the right track.

Sludge Factory

Johnny Sitar wrote:

a married couple that we are friends with have two kids the same age as us; one 3 year old and one 2 month old. Her father is a respected physician in Toronto. She called him for his opinion on this. He said "Health Canada tells me I have to tell all my patients to get the vaccine for H1N1, but speaking as a father/grandfather, I would not let anyone give that to my grandkids. It has quite simply not been sufficiently tested for me to be confident in its safety".

I was already somewhat apprehensive about it (as I'm always leary of taking any pharmaceuticals-I prefer my body to work it out on its own if it's not definitively life-threatening), but if a doctor of 30 years tells his own kid not to vaccinate herself or her children, then it kind of tells me I'm on the right track.

Yeah I hear you...but more importantly....I'm amazed at how well you handle a computer at your age.

Johnny Sitar wrote:

a married couple that we are friends with have two kids the same age as us; one 3 year old and one 2 month old.

decides2dream

Sludge Factory wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

a married couple that we are friends with have two kids the same age as us; one 3 year old and one 2 month old. Her father is a respected physician in Toronto. She called him for his opinion on this. He said "Health Canada tells me I have to tell all my patients to get the vaccine for H1N1, but speaking as a father/grandfather, I would not let anyone give that to my grandkids. It has quite simply not been sufficiently tested for me to be confident in its safety".

I was already somewhat apprehensive about it (as I'm always leary of taking any pharmaceuticals-I prefer my body to work it out on its own if it's not definitively life-threatening), but if a doctor of 30 years tells his own kid not to vaccinate herself or her children, then it kind of tells me I'm on the right track.

Yeah I hear you...but more importantly....I'm amazed at how well you handle a computer at your age.

Johnny Sitar wrote:

a married couple that we are friends with have two kids the same age as us; one 3 year old and one 2 month old.

:evil:




to be fair towards the topic tho, many a doctor will have a differing opinion on the topic. does not make one less educated or respecte, but it is definitely a topic with divisive opinions, even amongst some physicians. there usually is.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Sludge Factory wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

a married couple that we are friends with have two kids the same age as us; one 3 year old and one 2 month old. Her father is a respected physician in Toronto. She called him for his opinion on this. He said "Health Canada tells me I have to tell all my patients to get the vaccine for H1N1, but speaking as a father/grandfather, I would not let anyone give that to my grandkids. It has quite simply not been sufficiently tested for me to be confident in its safety".

I was already somewhat apprehensive about it (as I'm always leary of taking any pharmaceuticals-I prefer my body to work it out on its own if it's not definitively life-threatening), but if a doctor of 30 years tells his own kid not to vaccinate herself or her children, then it kind of tells me I'm on the right track.

Yeah I hear you...but more importantly....I'm amazed at how well you handle a computer at your age.

Johnny Sitar wrote:

a married couple that we are friends with have two kids the same age as us; one 3 year old and one 2 month old.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

decides2dream wrote:

Sludge Factory wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

a married couple that we are friends with have two kids the same age as us; one 3 year old and one 2 month old. Her father is a respected physician in Toronto. She called him for his opinion on this. He said "Health Canada tells me I have to tell all my patients to get the vaccine for H1N1, but speaking as a father/grandfather, I would not let anyone give that to my grandkids. It has quite simply not been sufficiently tested for me to be confident in its safety".

I was already somewhat apprehensive about it (as I'm always leary of taking any pharmaceuticals-I prefer my body to work it out on its own if it's not definitively life-threatening), but if a doctor of 30 years tells his own kid not to vaccinate herself or her children, then it kind of tells me I'm on the right track.

Yeah I hear you...but more importantly....I'm amazed at how well you handle a computer at your age.

Johnny Sitar wrote:

a married couple that we are friends with have two kids the same age as us; one 3 year old and one 2 month old.

:evil:




to be fair towards the topic tho, many a doctor will have a differing opinion on the topic. does not make one less educated or respecte, but it is definitely a topic with divisive opinions, even amongst some physicians. there usually is.

I would have to agree. I didn't mean to imply that he's more respected than others, nor that any pro-vaccine doctor is a Dr Nick Riviera (Hi Everybody! Hi Dr Nick!). I'll readily admit I was happy that a doctor shared my opinion on the matter, and I'm using that to make myself feel better about my decision!

Sludge Factory

Woah! Finland isn't too worried and in my opinion seem to be using more common sense than some "other" countries:

http://newsroom.finland.fi/stt/showarti ... up=General


REPEAT: Finland downgrades swine influenza

23.7.2009 at 15:30

Finnish health authorities said in a statement Wednesday that swine influenza would be downgraded as a threat given that the bulk of patients appeared to recover well without medication or hospital care.

The health ministry and the National Institute for Health and Welfare (THL) added that swine flu would be removed from a list of diseases considered dangerous to the public in general on Thursday.

Although the reclassification means that the treatment of swine flu patients will no longer be free, future vaccination programmes will continue to be paid by the government.

THL has confirmed 155 swine flu cases. No one has died of the virus in Finland.

The statement added that the authorities would shift from a containment phase to one characterised by the prevention of serious swine flu cases.

Sludge Factory

Sludge Factory wrote:

Woah! Finland isn't too worried and in my opinion seem to be using more common sense than some "other" countries:

http://newsroom.finland.fi/stt/showarti ... up=General


REPEAT: Finland downgrades swine influenza

23.7.2009 at 15:30

Finnish health authorities said in a statement Wednesday that swine influenza would be downgraded as a threat given that the bulk of patients appeared to recover well without medication or hospital care.

The health ministry and the National Institute for Health and Welfare (THL) added that swine flu would be removed from a list of diseases considered dangerous to the public in general on Thursday.

Although the reclassification means that the treatment of swine flu patients will no longer be free, future vaccination programmes will continue to be paid by the government.

THL has confirmed 155 swine flu cases. No one has died of the virus in Finland.

The statement added that the authorities would shift from a containment phase to one characterised by the prevention of serious swine flu cases.

This is old news...apparently they ARE worried...now.

http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/htimes/dome ... emic-.html

_

decides2dream wrote:

In late July, the CDC abruptly advised states to stop testing for H1N1 flu, and stopped counting individual cases. The rationale given for the CDC guidance to forego testing and tracking individual cases was: why waste resources testing for H1N1 flu when the government has already confirmed there's an epidemic?



that is all kinds of fucked up.

I just want to point out that we really DON'T HAVE the public health resources to test every case of influenza-like illness. I know our state lab is overwhelmed just trying to keep up with all the flu tests that are recommended (for inpatients, etc.).

decides2dream

scb wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

In late July, the CDC abruptly advised states to stop testing for H1N1 flu, and stopped counting individual cases. The rationale given for the CDC guidance to forego testing and tracking individual cases was: why waste resources testing for H1N1 flu when the government has already confirmed there's an epidemic?



that is all kinds of fucked up.

I just want to point out that we really DON'T HAVE the public health resources to test every case of influenza-like illness. I know our state lab is overwhelmed just trying to keep up with all the flu tests that are recommended (for inpatients, etc.).

however, to state it as a point of policy - NOT to count....whether it is entirely feasible or not....still fucked up imo. that said, i also don't view it all as some great gov't conspiracy either. :P

i got my seasonal flu shot this morning.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

my wife, my 3 year old daughter, and myself are getting the H1 shot today. We decided we have to protect our 3 month old daughter who can't get the shot and doesn't have a fully developed immune system yet.

RideRick

Sorry to waken everybody up...

we are some weeks later now... how is everybody doing.

In the Netherlands the Media is getting everybody scared by large numbers of death.

As far as i know it ain't that big of a deal.
I decided i won't take a vaccine due to too less information what it will do with you.
Can't believe we all going to die.
Those who die of it would probably also died with a normal flue. 99% is already very weak before they got hit by the SwineFlu.
Remember the BirdFlu some years ago? We should be dead already if you believed the media and goverments back then.
What will be happening in 2 years, a CatFlu?
Come on people... don't believe the hype....

Jeanwah

RideRick wrote:

Sorry to waken everybody up...

we are some weeks later now... how is everybody doing.

In the Netherlands the Media is getting everybody scared by large numbers of death.

As far as i know it ain't that big of a deal.
I decided i won't take a vaccine due to too less information what it will do with you.
Can't believe we all going to die.
Those who die of it would probably also died with a normal flue. 99% is already very weak before they got hit by the SwineFlu.
Remember the BirdFlu some years ago? We should be dead already if you believed the media and goverments back then.
What will be happening in 2 years, a CatFlu?
Come on people... don't believe the hype....

Since Obama and the NY governor declared a "swine flu emergency", nothing else has really been said. It's not even talked about in my social circles, it's almost as if we all know that it's not the scare that the media is making it out to be. There are cases of swine flu locally...but they're pretty mild.