god question

dunkman

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-p ... 281616.stm

Can i ask a religious person their explanation for why their god allows his creation, i.e. the planet, to kill his other creations... via the method of Tsunami?

I'm genuinely interested to see if there is a theological explanation as to why innocent people would be killed by an earthquake causing a huge tsunami.

I understand that things like murder, rape, etc happen as a consequence of 'free will'... but this seems arbitrary... random... not as a result of man itself.

Hitch-Hiker

I'm not particularly religious, but I know my granny would say something along the lines of God works in mysterious ways. The beauty of most beliefs is you can twist them to any situation and allows the deity to remain omnipotent.

surfanddestroy

I wouldn't say mysterious ways, it's more along the lines of fucked up ways.

FinsburyParkCarrots

This is a good question. It's interesting that the decline of the Catholic church in the late middle ages pretty much corresponded with the rise of the Black Death. While people were mortally ill and seeking a divine explanation for pandemics and nature in disorder, the Church did a lot of hmmm-ing and haaaa-ing and coming up with the vague excuse that it was probably God's will for something or other. Many people got pissed off with the Church as a result.

Over the next couple of centuries, there's evidence of people suspecting supernatural causes of things going wrong in the natural world, or the role of the divine figure of the monarch in the disruption of natural order. In a lot of Shakespeare, you see fictional representations of natural disturbance, plague and pestilence attributed to the tragic downfall of corrupt kings, but such beliefs were paganistic rather than Christian in approach.

RGarabed21

Hitch-Hiker wrote:

I'm not particularly religious, but I know my granny would say something along the lines of God works in mysterious ways. The beauty of most beliefs is you can twist them to any situation and allows the deity to remain omnipotent.

Sick Tattoo Hitch-Hiker!
Sorry, completely off topic carry on...

he still stands

It seems that most 'religious' people see God as an all-powerful omnipotent 'Grandfather' or old man in the sky sitting in the clouds. To me that is silly. I think it is also silly to think that God "shakes the earth" or causes natural phenomenon on earth. I also think it is silly to think that God allows those phenomena to occur and could stop them if she pleased... but allows people to die. I don't know if there are gods or a singular God... but evidence points me to think that there is some sort of higher entity or creator. I do not "believe" in God, but then again I don't "believe" in anything except Optimism and the Love for my wife and son.

This scenario reminds me of a scene from my favorite movie (The Ninth Configuration):

Colonel Kane: You're convinced that God is dead because there's evil in the world.
Captain Cutshaw: Correct.
Colonel Kane: Then why don't you think He's alive because of the goodness in the world?

pandora

I consider myself spiritual not religious so I'm probably not qualified but the way I feel is
thru all the terrible things that happen there is the opportunity for good and it comes and it connects more than all the bad ever could. Its the opportunity to LOVE which is the most powerful thing in our universe and it is GOD intention to have us connect and love and learn compassion.

dunkman

pandora wrote:

I consider myself spiritual not religious so I'm probably not qualified but the way I feel is
thru all the terrible things that happen there is the opportunity for good and it comes and it connects more than all the bad ever could. Its the opportunity to LOVE which is the most powerful thing in our universe and it is GOD intention to have us connect and love and learn compassion.

what good can come from 170+ people dying randomly because of where there mother and father decided to live?

pandora

the good comes when you reach out to them

know1

I think only God can answer why God does things....and perhaps we wouldn't understand the answer anyway.

One question that I think about with my miniscule human logic is this: What if "IT" isn't really about our gone-in-a-flash lives here on earth. After all, everyone dies so the plan must be that our human lives will end.

dunkman

pandora wrote:

the good comes when you reach out to them

you do realise that entire families have been obliterated and that thousands of people have no home and are in danger of starvation, dysentery, etc..

what good will it do them when they have lost 4 of their kids for me to send them £10?

when 'we' reach out to them? where's god? he could have reached out to them before his planet killed them... as we apparently have 'free will' then any good shown to these victims is as a result of this 'free will' and therefore nothing to do with god.

he still stands

It sure seems that when people are so damn sure that God doesn't exist it is just as foolish (or more) than the absolute believer. Both are fanatical.

None of us know. Anyone who claims to know is either trying to sell you something or is full of shit. Which one is it???

soulsinging

know1 wrote:

What if "IT" isn't really about our gone-in-a-flash lives here on earth.

Pretty much nailed it. We're of no more consequence than a random blade of grass or Mt Himalaya and the delusion that we are is just our human mind projecting our own self importance and attributes onto "God" in order to justify and lend authority to our pretty arbitrary social, moral, and political philosophies.

pandora

dunkman wrote:

pandora wrote:

the good comes when you reach out to them

you do realise that entire families have been obliterated and that thousands of people have no home and are in danger of starvation, dysentery, etc..

what good will it do them when they have lost 4 of their kids for me to send them £10?

when 'we' reach out to them? where's god? he could have reached out to them before his planet killed them... as we apparently have 'free will' then any good shown to these victims is as a result of this 'free will' and therefore nothing to do with god.

Of course I realize this is horrible as they all are and my point is from horrific events come the people who actually help those living thru it. Each day we have an opportunity to help, to be kind and compassionate, to grow from our tragedies and those of others. You call it free will(I actually believe all is fixed but thats a different discussion) to choose to embrace and love but I believe the ? was why would God allow these events to happen and from my lifes experience it is to bring us together that is Gods plan to connect us.And that out of all the bad comes some good.

dunkman

pandora wrote:

Of course I realize this is horrible as they all are and my point is from horrific events come the people who actually help those living thru it. Each day we have an opportunity to help, to be kind and compassionate, to grow from our tragedies and those of others. You call it free will(I actually believe all is fixed but thats a different discussion) to choose to embrace and love but I believe the ? was why would God allow these events to happen and from my lifes experience it is to bring us together that is Gods plan to connect us.And that out of all the bad comes some good.

so your belief is that god randomly kills people using an underwater earthquake which causes a tidal wave in order to connect us?

what good can come out of 100s+ of people dying for no reason?

so how long will it take god's random slaughter of innocents before we all 'connect'... Pompeii was covered by volcanic ash some 2000+ years ago... hundreds died... no lesson learned? and if it is his aim to 'connect' us via the method of natural destruction then its a poor communication method... its only because of modern advancements that we know these poor people even died... some 3000 years ago this exact event could have happened and the vast majority of the world would have literally no idea it even happened.. how would that 'connect' us?

he still stands

soulsinging wrote:

know1 wrote:

What if "IT" isn't really about our gone-in-a-flash lives here on earth.

Pretty much nailed it. We're of no more consequence than a random blade of grass or Mt Himalaya and the delusion that we are is just our human mind projecting our own self importance and attributes onto "God" in order to justify and lend authority to our pretty arbitrary social, moral, and political philosophies.

I agree. Some of these guys need to watch "The Universe" on NatGeo to get a feeling of how insignficant we are in the grand scheme of the universe - which is just one in the infinite multiverse, according to most quantum physicists. We are no more important than a single-cell organism, but remember, no less important than anything else either. And another thing... how can we know about miracles without tragedies? They are one and the same.

pandora

maybe you believe you do not have an afterlife. I am sure I do so death is not the end for me and when I do leave this world the connection I have made to others and the love that is within me is all I will take with me.
The love that is shared is the love I will keep. I believe this to be true for all.
This is the connection- lets say you know me - you know my pain -something unjust and unfair or unspeakable
has happened to me and you understand this and connect with me - you truly help me through something awful- and love is the by product this is the connection- this is the good that comes from something awful.

dunkman

pandora wrote:

maybe you believe you do not have an afterlife. I am sure I do so death is not the end for me and when I do leave this world the connection I have made to others and the love that is within me is all I will take with me.
The love that is shared is the love I will keep. I believe this to be true for all.
This is the connection- lets say you know me - you know my pain -something unjust and unfair or unspeakable
has happened to me and you understand this and connect with me - you truly help me through something awful- and love is the by product this is the connection- this is the good that comes from something awful.

thanks, but no thanks. that in no way answered my initial question of why would a compassionate, loving, omnipotent god allow his creation of earth, clearly flawed at best, to kill random innocents.

god created this earth apparently. this same earth that through a design fault has managed to kill 200 people on a tiny set of islands in the middle of the ocean.

this doesnt seem odd?

pandora

its ok to die who knows that better than God
and its very ok for you to be angry that innocent people leave this world because you care- that is good-
that in itself is the good coming out of the bad

decides2dream

he still stands wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

know1 wrote:

What if "IT" isn't really about our gone-in-a-flash lives here on earth.

Pretty much nailed it. We're of no more consequence than a random blade of grass or Mt Himalaya and the delusion that we are is just our human mind projecting our own self importance and attributes onto "God" in order to justify and lend authority to our pretty arbitrary social, moral, and political philosophies.

I agree. Some of these guys need to watch "The Universe" on NatGeo to get a feeling of how insignficant we are in the grand scheme of the universe - which is just one in the infinite multiverse, according to most quantum physicists. We are no more important than a single-cell organism, but remember, no less important than anything else either. And another thing... how can we know about miracles without tragedies? They are one and the same.

these are my thoughts as well.
don't know how that fits necessarily into the whole 'god question' though i do believe it probably could be used both for and against the idea of a god. of course, it's also a very simplistic question for what really is a complex idea. 'god' means many things to many different people. do i believe in one supreme entity lauding over life? hmmmm....on the fence about that one. do i believe in some universal lifeforce that connects us all? probably a lot more likely. life, of ALL organisms, is certainly more highly interconnected/dependent than we can even imagine. so in that sense, one who may believe in god might believe in his/her/it's support of LIFE first and foremost, and through devestation comes renewal of life. of course, this doesn't fit all that tidily into the whole idea that we are made in his image and he gave us dominion over the earth, we're his favorites, etc.....but not all faiths or people who believe in god, believe in that one idea of god. also, god has gotten a bit of a PR makeover ...as he was once represented as a lot more badass than loving/forgiving....bottomline, it's faith...and none of us will "know" until we are dead, that's a certainty. tho if you don't believe in an afterlife (and even if ya do) and indeed one never comes, well yea...SOL, you'll never know, as you won't have after-death consciousness to know it was all BS.

OffHeGoes29

Is this another "I hate God because my life sucks" thread?