THE Drummer will be decided

LastExitBJPLastExitBJP Posts: 79
edited November 2008 in The Porch
I beleive how Cameron does on the rumored re-release (if it happens) will put an end to the squabble over who Pearl Jam's best drummer is. For some reason no one cares about Jack (my PJ fav drummer), but rather the attention goes to either Dave A (what ever happend to Crusen anyway?) or Matt C. I don't think Matt can surpass Dave on the re-release, but if he does, we all need to take a moment to agree with Ed when he takes the time to kiss Matt's butt during shows.
On a side note, does anyone think, again if this does happen, that it will be a huge slap in the face to Dave? I mean, the guy proababley gets no credit for his work (it's because of him that we have "Go."), and now PJ is taking his work on Ten and rehashing it. I have a theory that says it's because of Dave that they waited so long to play "Leash" again. Maybe it's the same for "Deep." Possibly making a new release may have the plus of being able to play it live again.
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  • maybe im mistaken, but i dont think its being re-recorded. just remastered or remixed.
    Jam out with your clam out.
  • Brisk.Brisk. Posts: 11,561
    Dave's style is so so dam good.

    Cameron is just brilliant too, just jesus christ pose it.

    Those 2 are the best imo.
  • youngsteryoungster Posts: 6,576
    long red wrote:
    maybe im mistaken, but i dont think its being re-recorded. just remastered or remixed.

    Yeah, that's what I heard too. Remastered with Brendan O'Brian behind the board is the rumor I heard.
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  • A few points:

    *A lot of people care about Jack and his contributions to the band.
    *The re-release of Ten will not be a re-recording of Ten, but possibly a remix, which are two different things.
    *Dave Krusen drummed on Ten, not Dave Abbruzzese.

    That is all.
    Can't escape from the common rule...
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  • 12345AGNST112345AGNST1 Posts: 4,906
    I WISH they were rerecording Ten. I'm pretty sure its only a remix though.
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  • ugh.... seriously.... they're pulling a George Lucas with ten?
  • pjfan020pjfan020 Posts: 426
    ugh.... seriously.... they're pulling a George Lucas with ten?

    I love ten and listen to it just as much as the other albums. I don't hate the audio quality but it could use a lot of work. Eliminating half the reverb on the album will do wonders alone!
    "Tonight we're just gonna play you some good old American Rock and Roll." tom petty-7-15-05
  • dcfaithfuldcfaithful Posts: 13,076
    A few points:

    *A lot of people care about Jack and his contributions to the band.
    *The re-release of Ten will not be a re-recording of Ten, but possibly a remix, which are two different things.
    *Dave Krusen drummed on Ten, not Dave Abbruzzese.

    That is all.

    I care about Jack. His drumming was monumental, and I personally love his drumming with Pearl Jam. As much as I dig Matt Cameron, there is something I hear on Jack's studio cuts, and live playing that I just can't get enough of.
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  • dcfaithfuldcfaithful Posts: 13,076
    I WISH they were rerecording Ten. I'm pretty sure its only a remix though.

    Why though? Let's use the already recorded Ten to remember how Ed's voice was BEFORE he began wasting it on fucking cigarettes...

    that being said, i'll vote for a remaster.
    7/2/06 - Denver, CO
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  • Surf RiderSurf Rider Posts: 813
    edited March 2009
    The game is over guys, sorry but Dave has been cut, sent back to the minors and he will always be the guy who didn't have the talent to continue with the growth of Pearl Jam.
    Post edited by Surf Rider on
  • LikeAnOceanLikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    I beleive how Cameron does on the rumored re-release (if it happens) will put an end to the squabble over who Pearl Jam's best drummer is. For some reason no one cares about Jack (my PJ fav drummer), but rather the attention goes to either Dave A (what ever happend to Crusen anyway?) or Matt C. I don't think Matt can surpass Dave on the re-release, but if he does, we all need to take a moment to agree with Ed when he takes the time to kiss Matt's butt during shows.
    On a side note, does anyone think, again if this does happen, that it will be a huge slap in the face to Dave? I mean, the guy proababley gets no credit for his work (it's because of him that we have "Go."), and now PJ is taking his work on Ten and rehashing it. I have a theory that says it's because of Dave that they waited so long to play "Leash" again. Maybe it's the same for "Deep." Possibly making a new release may have the plus of being able to play it live again.
    They will just remix it.. see the Rearviewmirror remixes.
  • A re-recording could be fucking phenomenal. To hear Pearl Jam's debut album rerecorded in the studio 17 years and various emotions and life changes later would probably blow some fucking minds around here. I think it would be as monumental to us now as it was back then.

    That being said, I think Riot Act was, in a way, a 10-year nod to 10.

    I also think Ed's voice is holding up very well for his age and occupation. With as much energy and emotion as he constantly puts out on stage, he shouldn't really have a voice.

    And there should be no question as to has been the best drummer for PJ. Matt has tenure. He is a madman on the skins and, unlike what I have heard from Jack, he can actually keep rhythm.
    Chicago 8-23-09

  • PJAMEDVED wrote:
    The game is over guys, sorry but Dave has been cut, sent back to the minors and he will always be the guy who didn't have the talent to continue with the growth of Pearl Jam.


    I hardly think Dave was cut because of his lack of talent or growth.
  • I hardly think Dave was cut because of his lack of talent or growth.


    you can hardly it all you want but Jeff said if the band wanted to try a song in a different way, Dave didn't know how to say......play a song with a WHO feel. Jeff said he only knew how to play 1 way. He didn't have the musical knowledge the other guys had. This isn't coming from my mind, Jeff Ament said it, so take it up with him.
  • you know what dave would have been awesome to see in pj? grohl.
  • PJAMEDVED wrote:
    you can hardly it all you want but Jeff said if the band wanted to try a song in a different way, Dave didn't know how to say......play a song with a WHO feel. Jeff said he only knew how to play 1 way. He didn't have the musical knowledge the other guys had. This isn't coming from my mind, Jeff Ament said it, so take it up with him.

    This is what Jeff said: "Dave was a different egg for sure. There were a lot of things, personality wise, where I didn't see eye to eye with him. He was more comfortable being a rock star than the rest of us. Partying, girls, cars. I don't know if anyone was in the same space. Also, with Dave, musically, when you'd say, "I want this to sound more like the Buzzcocks," I don't think he related to that at all. He was a technical guy, and we all played by feeling, or by seeing bands." Source: http://www.fivehorizons.com/archive/articles/spin801.shtml

    This was Dave A's response in this article - http://www.dallasobserver.com/1996-10-24/news/un-rock-star/1:

    "Jeff Ament said I was living like a rock star," Abbruzzese says with a chuckle. "That still conjures up complete belly laughter from me." He can't help deriding his former colleagues as "un-rock-stars."

    Also in the same article:

    Fans speculated everything: Abbruzzese had a personal conflict with Vedder; his aggressive drumming style wasn't in sync with the sound that the rest of the band wanted on the next album; Abbruzzese's "Texas, pickup-truck personality" (he drives a truck and owns a couple of guns) clashed with Vedder's politically correct sensibilities; Abbruzzese wanted to tour rather than waste time taking on Ticketmaster; the Pearl Jam drummer had disagreed with his bandmates about the cover art for the band's second album; Vedder conspired all along to replace Abbruzzese with friend Jack Irons (now the band's drummer), formerly with Los Angeles funk rockers the Red Hot Chili Peppers. Basically every theory was present except the second gunman on the grassy knoll.

    Abbruzzese says that he can't pinpoint why he was let go. He's certain, however, that his dismissal had nothing to do with the quality of his drumming talents--an assessment many fans and industry insiders share. Nor did he think anything was wrong with his relationship with the others in the group. But in interviews after Abbruzzese's departure, Gossard revealed--in Musician magazine particularly--that the climate within the band leading up to Abbruzzese's firing was "complex," and that the band members were unable to find a "balance, a mutual respect for each other."

    Poor communication within the band was a problem, Abbruzzese admits. It may explain why he was blindsided by his firing. The best hypothesis is that he was oblivious to a growing personality conflict between himself and the other members of the band. The bad mojo probably reached its critical mass somewhere between late 1993 and toward the middle of 1994--between the release of the band's second album, Vs., and while they worked on their third, Vitalogy.

    In a candid moment, Abbruzzese remembers times when Vedder threw water bottles at him in fits of frustration. He never took any of Vedder's behavior personally, Abbruzzese says, because he never imagined that Vedder meant it as a personal affront--just a professional dispute. Now--he says with an incredulous snort--he wonders if it was indeed the former. In a later discussion, he's more subdued when talking about his ex-bandmates, saying only that Vedder struck him as "intense" when they first met.

    Gossard, though, made an effort to credit Abbruzzese with the development of Pearl Jam during its formative years. Ever the diplomat, he even went so far as to thank the band's ex-drummer at the Grammy Awards this year when the band won album of the year for Vitalogy, the second and last album Abbruzzese worked on. (McCready could be heard tiredly muttering "jeez...." under his breath when Gossard mentioned Abbruzzese.)

    Abbruzzese says he has no regrets or grudges. "With all the time that's passed, I look back and think, it sure was great and sure was a lot of fun," he says. "And I learned a lot and still haven't stopped learning.

    "I can definitely step back now and say that I might not have been the right guy for those guys all along. But at the same time, I can tell you with all honesty that they weren't the right guys for me, either, and I don't feel bad about that."
    Can't escape from the common rule...
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  • you know what dave would have been awesome to see in pj? grohl.
    INDEED!!!!!!!!!!! There would have been NO question as to the best Seattle band had Grohl joined PJ instead of Nirvana. Dave Grohl is the Paul McCartney of our generation, super successful in his original band but also creatively and commercially successful with another band.
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  • Also, with Dave, musically, when you'd say, "I want this to sound more like the Buzzcocks," I don't think he related to that at all. He was a technical guy, and we all played by feeling, or by seeing bands." ."


    Yes, that's the comment I was talking about. It's been a long time since I read that. I wasn't even sure if it was Jeff or Mike who said it. Thank you.
  • PJAMEDVED wrote:
    Exactly!


    The OP thinks Dave was drumming on TEN, which makes this post 118% worthless..

    No offence but now you've finished showing off your knowledge that Dave K played on Ten, it's worth noting that nowhere does the OP say he thinks Dave A played on the album. He even says "(What happened to Dave Krusen?)". All he says is that he admires Dave's work and without him, we wouldn't have 'Go'. 'Go' is on Vs. anyway.

    Edit: He does seem to contradict himself at the end, saying that 'Dave's work will be re-done by Matt'.. but I think it's just him getting confused between the Dave's for a moment.
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  • HermanBloomHermanBloom Posts: 1,764
    Dave had a great sound and excellent mixture of symbols that worked well with the music. Not a huge fan of Jack. The bottom line is Matt is a legend and one of the all time great rock drummers; there is nothing really to discuss.
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  • Niko80Niko80 Posts: 1,595
    It’s important to consider what Dave A did with Krusens work on the stage. Dave A reinvented and improved. That’s why I consider Dave to be a contributing force not to the album ten, but to the success of ten.

    After all, Pearl Jam drew its fans mostly because they developed a HUGE street buzz about being the hottest live show around. This street buzz took them to the top of Seattle and Seattle went global with the success of grunge. It is stupid and ignorant to not acknowledge Dave’s importance behind the pj drum kit. He appealed to so many people.

    I say Dave was more important than we think. He also wrote Go, huge track!
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  • I'm excited to hear more info about the re-release.
    I'm spinning, oh, I'm spinning

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  • Gonzo1977Gonzo1977 Posts: 1,696
    Ahh...The Great Pearl Jam Drummer Debate:

    If technical studio drumming is your thing...you're obviously going to lean towards Dave A. Although I believe that Matt is way more of a technically sound drummer.

    I agree with a previous poster that the band would have chosen Matt over Dave A from the very start.

    Let's not forget that Matt drummed on their first demo. If Matt hadn't been in Soundgarden he would easily gotten the job.

    I've got nothing against Dave A. I quite enjoyed his work with the band.

    "GO" is one of the coolest songs the band has ever recorded.

    But I could tell from the very start that there was a real tension between Dave and Eddie. I didn't notice so much the tension between Dave and Jeff Ament...their issues were likely more on a musical level than personal.

    But if you go back to some of the early shows you'll see that there was hardly any interaction between Eddie and Dave on stage. Eddie hardly ever acknowledged Dave. If you look at shows with Jack and Matt, you'll always see Eddie interacting with them and feeding off their energy. Eddie and Dave were completly different people and at a time when the band was trying to make a break in a different direction...this tension probably boiled over and became quite uncomfortable for both.

    And Let's face it...regardless of whether Dave and Eddie got along...Jeff and Dave didn't get along...THAT'S HUGE.

    If your drummer and your bass player aren't getting along...well...It's safe to say that one of them is not going to be long for the band...and we all know that if the axe was going to drop on someone...it sure as hell wasn't going to be Jeff Ament that got the boot.

    Matt is the perfect drummer for Pearl Jam. He brings a great dynamic to the group. He gets along great with the band, he contributes muscially, and he's held in very high regard with both Eddie and Jeff. He may not be as original as Jack Irons...but he's got some serious chops. And when it comes to technical drumming...he's miles ahead and in a completly different league than Dave A.
  • EP1973EP1973 Posts: 112
    If music is to be taken seriously as an art, there is no need in re-doing an album that has already been done. No one has put eyebrows on the Mona Lisa or re sculpted the Thinker... Leave "Ten" alone...if not you'll end up with some mess like the Ozzy remasters...er..re-recordings.
  • 12345AGNST112345AGNST1 Posts: 4,906
    EP1973 wrote:
    If music is to be taken seriously as an art, there is no need in re-doing an album that has already been done. No one has put eyebrows on the Mona Lisa or re sculpted the Thinker... Leave "Ten" alone...if not you'll end up with some mess like the Ozzy remasters...er..re-recordings.

    Not when its Brendan O Brien doing it!
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  • Brisk.Brisk. Posts: 11,561
    you know what dave would have been awesome to see in pj? grohl.

    Why? he isn't good at the drums.
  • 12345AGNST112345AGNST1 Posts: 4,906
    Off topic: Why was my "matt cameron is a f*ckin beast" thread deleted?
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  • Brisk.Brisk. Posts: 11,561
    Off topic: Why was my "matt cameron is a f*ckin beast" thread deleted?

    you serious???

    I did ponder as to where it had gone.
  • Gonzo1977Gonzo1977 Posts: 1,696
    I BrisK I wrote:
    Why? he isn't good at the drums.


    I've got 4 words for you...

    SONGS FOR THE DEAF
  • I BrisK I wrote:
    Why? he isn't good at the drums.


    true. he isnt the best drummer, but his energy on stage is unreal. i also love his song writing.
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