Final UN Gaza Report

ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
edited September 2009 in A Moving Train
I wonder if we'll get to see the Israeli leadership sent to the International War Crimes Tribunal at the Hague?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/se ... rael-hamas

UN Gaza report accuses Israel and Hamas of war crimes
15 September 2009


Inquiry into Gaza conflict singles out Israeli policy towards Palestinians for most serious condemnation

Israel's offensive against Gaza last January was "a deliberately disproportionate attack designed to punish, humiliate and terrorise a civilian population", for which some Israelis should face "individual criminal responsibility", a UN investigation has found.

The inquiry, led by the former South African judge Richard Goldstone, concluded that both the Israeli military and Hamas committed war crimes and possible crimes against humanity during the three-week conflict, but singled out Israel and its policy towards the Palestinians of Gaza for the most serious condemnation. The inquiry rejected Israel's argument that the war was a response to Palestinian rocket fire and therefore an act of self-defence.

In a 575-page report (pdf), released tonight, the inquiry said Israel should be required to investigate the allegations raised and if it fails to do so the case should be passed to the prosecutor of the international criminal court. It accused Israel of "grave breaches" of the fourth Geneva convention and of a war crime for using Palestinians as human shields during the fighting.

Israel refused to co-operate with the inquiry, arguing that the UN human rights council, which commissioned the study, is biased against Israel. "Both the mandate of the mission and the resolution establishing it prejudged the outcome of any investigation, gave legitimacy to the Hamas terrorist organisation and disregarded the deliberate Hamas strategy of using Palestinian civilians as cover for launching terrorist attacks," the Israeli foreign ministry said.

But Goldstone, who is Jewish and has strong links with Israel, defended the work of the four-person team. "There should be no impunity for international crimes that are committed," he said. "It's very important that justice should be done."

He rejected any suggestion of bias: "To accuse me of being anti-Israel is ridiculous." He said it was in the interests of both Israel and the Palestinians for the truth to be established.

Goldstone's team looked in detail at 36 incidents during the war. It studied the deaths of 22 members of the Samouni family who, following instructions from Israeli soldiers, were sheltering in a house in Zeitoun, east of Gaza City. The house was then hit by Israeli fire. The killings were a grave breach of the fourth Geneva convention, the inquiry said.

It found seven incidents in which civilians were shot while leaving their homes, waving white flags and sometimes following instructions from Israeli soldiers.

A "direct and intentional attack" on the al-Quds hospital, in the south of Gaza City, which left the building seriously damaged and forced the evacuation of patients, may amount to a war crime.


The report was critical of Palestinian armed groups, saying their rocket fire did not distinguish between civilian and military targets in Israel, caused terror among civilians and amounted to war crimes and possible crimes against humanity.

It said Gilad Shalit, the Israeli soldier captured near Gaza more than three years ago, should be released.'
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • NoKNoK Posts: 824
    What is sad is that every time they mention israeli war crimes they always have tag it to Hamas war crimes as a way of avoiding being called anti-Semitic.. I don't understand how killing 1300+ Palestinians is comparable to 13 israelis (some of which were friendly fire).. its always the case in any report from mainstream media.. either its Palestinians committing crimes or both sides committing crimes.. you rarely if ever here sole criticism of the israeli side.. and when you do the whole world erupts about those remarks..

    and for anyone who is going to argue that number of deaths isn't the issue.. well bullshit.. 13 Palestinians die each couple of days
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    NoK wrote:
    What is sad is that every time they mention israeli war crimes they always have tag it to Hamas war crimes as a way of avoiding being called anti-Semitic.. I don't understand how killing 1300+ Palestinians is comparable to 13 israelis (some of which were friendly fire).. its always the case in any report from mainstream media.. either its Palestinians committing crimes or both sides committing crimes.. you rarely if ever here sole criticism of the israeli side.. and when you do the whole world erupts about those remarks..

    and for anyone who is going to argue that number of deaths isn't the issue.. well bullshit.. 13 Palestinians die each couple of days

    And just 3 Israeli civilians died. Ten were IDF soldiers, four of whom were killed by friendly fire. 3 Israeli civilians were killed compared with approx 950 Palestinian civilians, 400 of whom were children. But we're expected to view the situation as being a struggle between equals on a level playing field, not as one modern army committing a massacre against a defenseless civilian population.

    And you're right about the media being afraid to criticize Israel. Every time the BBC mentions the settlements being illegal under international law they always feel the need to add 'but Israel disputes this'. As if Israel disputing international law is relevant?
  • Byrnzie wrote:
    NoK wrote:
    What is sad is that every time they mention israeli war crimes they always have tag it to Hamas war crimes as a way of avoiding being called anti-Semitic.. I don't understand how killing 1300+ Palestinians is comparable to 13 israelis (some of which were friendly fire).. its always the case in any report from mainstream media.. either its Palestinians committing crimes or both sides committing crimes.. you rarely if ever here sole criticism of the israeli side.. and when you do the whole world erupts about those remarks..

    and for anyone who is going to argue that number of deaths isn't the issue.. well bullshit.. 13 Palestinians die each couple of days

    And just 3 Israeli civilians died. Ten were IDF soldiers, four of whom were killed by friendly fire. 3 Israeli civilians were killed compared with approx 950 Palestinian civilians, 400 of whom were children. But we're expected to view the situation as being a struggle between equals on a level playing field, not as one modern army committing a massacre against a defenseless civilian population.

    And you're right about the media being afraid to criticize Israel. Every time the BBC mentions the settlements being illegal under international law they always feel the need to add 'but Israel disputes this'. As if Israel disputing international law is relevant?
    How does that happen without intent?


    I love this:
    "Both the mandate of the mission and the resolution establishing it prejudged the outcome of any investigation, gave legitimacy to the Hamas terrorist organisation and disregarded the deliberate Hamas strategy of using Palestinian civilians as cover for launching terrorist attacks," the Israeli foreign ministry said.
    Everyone is biased against Israel.. It's their response to every criticism. ironic that the Hamas use of civilians as human shields is used as an excuse to bomb and shoot unarmed civilians in their homes, no?
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Everyone is biased against Israel.. It's their response to every criticism. ironic that the Hamas use of civilians as human shields is used as an excuse to bomb and shoot unarmed civilians in their homes, no?

    The thing is, the Israeli's have provided no evidence that Hamas used civilians as human shields. No evidence whatsoever. Israel, on the other had, blatantly used Palestinian civilians as human shields. And If I'm wrong about this then anybody can feel free to correct me.

    Israel also accused Hezbollah of using human shields during it's bombardment of Lebanon in 2006, but investigators found zero evidence of this.
  • Do you really think that civilians are not being used by Hamas?

    Honest question. For me the answer is an easy one. It's just 1 part of a much larger messed up story though.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Do you really think that civilians are not being used by Hamas?

    Honest question. For me the answer is an easy one. It's just 1 part of a much larger messed up story though.

    Firstly, it depends on what you mean by 'used'. Used in what way?

    Secondly, this issue comes down to a burden of responsibility. Perhaps it's passed you by that 1.5 million people have been imprisoned and collectively punished for voting for the wrong party. Perhaps it passed you by that the Israeli army broke the ceasefire on November 4th 2008 and then in January of this year carried out a massacre of a defenseless civilian population.

    You see, the blockade of Gaza is illegal under international law. So is the 40 year occupation.

    So I'm not sure I quite understand the motives behind your question. Maybe you can elaborate for me?
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Hamas broke the cease fire in 08. and its nice to see you justifying the use of civilians as human shields. you call them martyrs right?
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Hamas broke the cease fire in 08.

    No they didn't.

    http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/former ... nkelstein/
    NORMAN FINKELSTEIN: Well, the record is fairly clear. You can find it on the Israeli website, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs website...that Hamas had adhered to the ceasefire from June 17th until November 4th. On November 4th...The record is clear: Israel broke the ceasefire by going into the Gaza and killing six or seven Palestinian militants. At that point—and now I’m quoting the official Israeli website—Hamas retaliated or, in retaliation for the Israeli attack, then launched the missiles.

    Now, as to the reason why, the record is fairly clear as well. According to Ha’aretz, Defense Minister Barak began plans for this invasion before the ceasefire even began. In fact, according to yesterday’s Ha’aretz, the plans for the invasion began in March. And the main reasons for the invasion, I think, are twofold. Number one, as Mr. Indyk I think correctly points out, to enhance what Israel calls its deterrence capacity, which in layman’s language basically means Israel’s capacity to terrorize the region into submission. After their defeat in July 2006 in Lebanon, they felt it important to transmit the message that Israel is still a fighting force, still capable of terrorizing those who dare defy its word.

    And the second main reason for the attack is because Hamas was signaling that it wanted a diplomatic settlement of the conflict along the June 1967 border. That is to say, Hamas was signaling they had joined the international consensus, they had joined most of the international community, overwhelmingly the international community, in seeking a diplomatic settlement. And at that point, Israel was faced with what Israelis call a Palestinian peace offensive. And in order to defeat the peace offensive, they sought to dismantle Hamas.
    jlew24asu wrote:
    and its nice to see you justifying the use of civilians as human shields.

    What civilians? When?
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:

    No they didn't.

    http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/former ... nkelstein/
    NORMAN FINKELSTEIN: Well, the record is fairly clear. You can find it on the Israeli website, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs website...that Hamas had adhered to the ceasefire from June 17th until November 4th. On November 4th...The record is clear: Israel broke the ceasefire by going into the Gaza and killing six or seven Palestinian militants.

    why did Israel go into Gaza and kill six or seven militants?
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    why did Israel go into Gaza and kill six or seven militants?

    You go ahead and tell me. Provide some evidence. And when you've done that, kindly address the fact that the invasion of Gaza had already been planned in March of 2008.

    Edit: Here, I'll help you out:


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/no ... lestinians
    'A four-month ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza was in jeopardy today after Israeli troops killed six Hamas gunmen in a raid into the territory.

    Hamas responded by firing a wave of rockets into southern Israel, although no one was injured. The violence represented the most serious break in a ceasefire agreed in mid-June, yet both sides suggested they wanted to return to atmosphere of calm.

    Israeli troops crossed into the Gaza Strip late last night near the town of Deir al-Balah. The Israeli military said the target of the raid was a tunnel that they said Hamas was planning to use to capture Israeli soldiers positioned on the border fence 250m away. Four Israeli soldiers were injured in the operation, two moderately and two lightly, the military said...'


    The Israeli military said that Hamas was 'planning' to use a tunnel and capture some soldiers.

    So, where's the evidence? There isn't any. And none has ever been produced. Israel broke the ceasefire. Period.
    Shit, even the Israeli's themselves admit that they broke the ceasefire, but once again Jlew knows better.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    why did Israel go into Gaza and kill six or seven militants?

    You go ahead and tell me. Provide some evidence. And when you've done that, kindly address the fact that the invasion of Gaza had already been planned in March of 2008.

    Edit: Here, I'll help you out:


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/no ... lestinians
    'A four-month ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza was in jeopardy today after Israeli troops killed six Hamas gunmen in a raid into the territory.

    Hamas responded by firing a wave of rockets into southern Israel, although no one was injured. The violence represented the most serious break in a ceasefire agreed in mid-June, yet both sides suggested they wanted to return to atmosphere of calm.

    Israeli troops crossed into the Gaza Strip late last night near the town of Deir al-Balah. The Israeli military said the target of the raid was a tunnel that they said Hamas was planning to use to capture Israeli soldiers positioned on the border fence 250m away. Four Israeli soldiers were injured in the operation, two moderately and two lightly, the military said...'


    The Israeli military said that Hamas was 'planning' to use a tunnel and capture some soldiers.

    So, where's the evidence? There isn't any. And none has ever been produced. Israel broke the ceasefire. Period.
    Shit, even the Israeli's themselves admit that they broke the ceasefire, but once again Jlew knows better.

    the evidence is the tunnel. have I seen it with my own eyes? no I haven't. so I guess it must be made up. :roll: is anyone surprised that Israel took action to stop an illegal tunnel from being dug?

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... t-lead.htm

    On 04 November 2008 Israel raided the Gaza Strip in order to thwart the threat of a tunnel being dug by the Gaza border, killing at least 6 Palestinians. This incident is apparently the "incursion" that HAMAS took as the reason for ending the truce. Hamas retaliated with rocket fire. On 12 November 2008, IDF Paratroopers Brigade forces identified a number of armed gunmen attempting to plant an explosive device next to the security fence in the central Gaza Strip. The gunmen exchanged fire with the IDF forces that arrived at the scene. The IDF had recently identified a significant rise in attempts to place explosive devices on the security fence of the Gaza Strip in an attempt to target forces in the area.

    From 04 November through 18 December 2008, Hamas and affiliated Palestinian terrorist groups fired 213 rockets and 126 mortar shells into Israel. More than 20 Kassam rockets were fired at southern Israel from Gaza on Wednesday 17 December 2008. In response to the continuous rocket fire from the Gaza Strip upon Israeli territory, IDF forces carried out four aerial strikes against terrorist targets in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday 17 December 2008.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    i've come to the conclusion that the only people that can fix this are jewish people on the outside ... men like finkelstein ...

    as shown on this board ... showing sympathy to the palestinian plight is akin to loving terrorists ... as like so many other things in this world - we've been brainwashed to believe that it's all the "terrorists" fault ...

    this shit has been going on for decades ... well before the existence of hamas or the voting in of hamas ...
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    the evidence is the tunnel. have I seen it with my own eyes? no I haven't. so I guess it must be made up. :roll: is anyone surprised that Israel took action to stop an illegal tunnel from being dug?

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... t-lead.htm

    On 04 November 2008 Israel raided the Gaza Strip in order to thwart the threat of a tunnel being dug by the Gaza border, killing at least 6 Palestinians. This incident is apparently the "incursion" that HAMAS took as the reason for ending the truce. Hamas retaliated with rocket fire. On 12 November 2008, IDF Paratroopers Brigade forces identified a number of armed gunmen attempting to plant an explosive device next to the security fence in the central Gaza Strip. The gunmen exchanged fire with the IDF forces that arrived at the scene. The IDF had recently identified a significant rise in attempts to place explosive devices on the security fence of the Gaza Strip in an attempt to target forces in the area.

    From 04 November through 18 December 2008, Hamas and affiliated Palestinian terrorist groups fired 213 rockets and 126 mortar shells into Israel. More than 20 Kassam rockets were fired at southern Israel from Gaza on Wednesday 17 December 2008. In response to the continuous rocket fire from the Gaza Strip upon Israeli territory, IDF forces carried out four aerial strikes against terrorist targets in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday 17 December 2008.

    The fact that there was a tunnel under the Gaza strip was a good enough reason to break the ceasefire, in your opinion?

    Do you know how many tunnels there are in and around the Gaza strip?

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=97933336
    'There are literally hundreds, perhaps a thousand tents strung out all along the border across several miles. Each tent represents a tunnel that all day, every day is hauling goods across from Egypt, everything from small refrigerators to cattle to cigarettes to gasoline. And the hum of the generators, the cacophonous hum, is incessant. As you walk here, it's just a tent city. An entire city has essentially sprouted up here along the Egypt-Gaza border, a city committed to smuggling.'

    You see, you may not be aware of it, but there's been an illegal blockade of the Gaza strip by Israel since Hamas were voted into power in a free and democratic election in 2006. The blockade has been described as a crime against humanity by every human rights organization and the U.N. The tunnels are the only way for the 1.5 million residents to survive.

    Oh, and did you actually read the article I posted at the top of this thread?
    The U.N '...inquiry rejected Israel's argument that the war was a response to Palestinian rocket fire and therefore an act of self-defence.'
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    polaris_x wrote:
    i've come to the conclusion that the only people that can fix this are jewish people on the outside ... men like finkelstein ...

    as shown on this board ... showing sympathy to the palestinian plight is akin to loving terrorists ... as like so many other things in this world - we've been brainwashed to believe that it's all the "terrorists" fault ...

    this shit has been going on for decades ... well before the existence of hamas or the voting in of hamas ...

    "as seen on this board" ? what the hell are you talking about?

    the only way there will be peace is when Hamas is gone and Israel stops expanding settlements. neither of which seems to be anytime soon.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Good article here on the effects of the criminal Israeli blockade:

    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n01/roy_01_.html
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:

    The fact that there was a tunnel under the Gaza strip was a good enough reason to break the ceasefire, in your opinion?

    no I don't think its a good enough reason. but it sure was for Israel. maybe Hamas shouldn't have given them a reason to break the ceasefire.
    Byrnzie wrote:

    Do you know how many tunnels there are in and around the Gaza strip?

    You see, you may not be aware of it, but there's been an illegal blockade of the Gaza strip by Israel since Hamas were voted into power in a free and democratic election in 2006. The blockade has been described as a crime against humanity by every human rights organization and the U.N. The tunnels are the only way for the 1.5 million residents to survive.

    quite the conundrum isnt it? those same tunnels are used to smuggle weapons as well.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    the only way there will be peace is when Hamas is gone and Israel stops expanding settlements. neither of which seems to be anytime soon.

    Hamas didn't exist in 1948. It didn't exist in 1967 either.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited September 2009
    jlew24asu wrote:
    maybe Hamas shouldn't have given them a reason to break the ceasefire.

    They didn't. There was no reason for Israel to break the ceasefire, other than that they'd been planning a full-scale invasion of Gaza over the previous six months.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    jlew24asu wrote:
    "as seen on this board" ? what the hell are you talking about?

    the only way there will be peace is when Hamas is gone and Israel stops expanding settlements. neither of which seems to be anytime soon.

    dude ... the evidence is OVERWHELMING ... anyone who honestly reads even the base literature on this conflict should understand by now that everything starts and ends with the israelis ... anyone who thinks that "both sides" are equally wrong either choose to ignore this information or don't value human life equally ...

    this is the worst present day crime against humanity second only to the iraq war and darfur ...
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    the only way there will be peace is when Hamas is gone and Israel stops expanding settlements. neither of which seems to be anytime soon.

    Hamas didn't exist in 1948. It didn't exist in 1967 either.

    well they exist now don't they? and its my opinion that Israel will never have friendly relations with them, and visa versa
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    maybe Hamas shouldn't have given them a reason to break the ceasefire.

    They didn't. There was no reason for Israel to break the ceasefire, other than that they'd been planning a full-scale invasion of Gaza over the previous six months.

    the tunnel is the reason whether you like it or not.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    well they exist now don't they? and its my opinion that Israel will never have friendly relations with them, and visa versa

    Israel will never have friendly relations with any Palestinian leadership that doesn't give Israel everything it wants. I.e, control of the entire West bank and all of the land stretching from the Jordan river to the Mediterranean sea.

    A very good article here on Israel's blocking any chance of a peaceful settlement for the past 40 years:

    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n16/sieg01_.html

    The Great Middle East Peace Process Scam
    Henry Siegman


    '...Palestinian moderates will never prevail over those considered extremists, since what defines moderation for Olmert is Palestinian acquiescence in Israel’s dismemberment of Palestinian territory. In the end, what Olmert and his government are prepared to offer Palestinians will be rejected by Abbas no less than by Hamas, and will only confirm to Palestinians the futility of Abbas’s moderation and justify its rejection by Hamas. Equally illusory are Bush’s expectations of what will be achieved by the conference he recently announced would be held in the autumn (it has now been downgraded to a ‘meeting’). In his view, all previous peace initiatives have failed largely, if not exclusively, because Palestinians were not ready for a state of their own. The meeting will therefore focus narrowly on Palestinian institution-building and reform, under the tutelage of Tony Blair, the Quartet’s newly appointed envoy.

    In fact, all previous peace initiatives have got nowhere for a reason that neither Bush nor the EU has had the political courage to acknowledge. That reason is the consensus reached long ago by Israel’s decision-making elites that Israel will never allow the emergence of a Palestinian state which denies it effective military and economic control of the West Bank. To be sure, Israel would allow – indeed, it would insist on – the creation of a number of isolated enclaves that Palestinians could call a state, but only in order to prevent the creation of a binational state in which Palestinians would be the majority.

    The Middle East peace process may well be the most spectacular deception in modern diplomatic history. Since the failed Camp David summit of 2000, and actually well before it, Israel’s interest in a peace process – other than for the purpose of obtaining Palestinian and international acceptance of the status quo – has been a fiction that has served primarily to provide cover for its systematic confiscation of Palestinian land and an occupation whose goal, according to the former IDF chief of staff Moshe Ya’alon, is ‘to sear deep into the consciousness of Palestinians that they are a defeated people’...
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Hamas broke the cease fire in 08. and its nice to see you justifying the use of civilians as human shields. you call them martyrs right?
    for a second, let's assume you are right and let's pretend that Hamas did break the ceasefire--a ceasefire that Israel never adhered to from the beginning since they never loosened the blockade. Why is that relevant to the massacre that took place considering it was planned 3 months before the ceasefire was even agreed to? Also, it's funny to see your obsession with how peace is not possible with Hamas. Why don't you address the fact that Hamas has called for a two-state solution on the 1967 borders which will include stopping ALL attacks on Israel, and yet Israel has repeatedly ignored this? Of course you will never acknowledge these points because they completely dismantle your arguments. Your ineptness in discussing this issue properly continues to bore me.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    _outlaw wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Hamas broke the cease fire in 08. and its nice to see you justifying the use of civilians as human shields. you call them martyrs right?
    for a second, let's assume you are right and let's pretend that Hamas did break the ceasefire--a ceasefire that Israel never adhered to from the beginning since they never loosened the blockade. Why is that relevant to the massacre that took place considering it was planned 3 months before the ceasefire was even agreed to? Also, it's funny to see your obsession with how peace is not possible with Hamas. Why don't you address the fact that Hamas has called for a two-state solution on the 1967 borders which will include stopping ALL attacks on Israel, and yet Israel has repeatedly ignored this? Of course you will never acknowledge these points because they completely dismantle your arguments. Your ineptness in discussing this issue properly continues to bore me.


    hey Napoleon, nice to see the tough guy chime in.. any more threats to meet in person? :roll:

    I'm not defending Israel....it's merely my opinion that there will never be peace as long as Hamas is in power. I never said I agree with that.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8259025.stm

    Israel condemns UN's Gaza report
    Wednesday, 16 September 2009


    The report accuses Israel of failing to protect civilian targets in Gaza

    Israel has strongly criticised a UN human rights report into alleged war crimes during the Gaza conflict.

    The report said both the Israeli army and Palestinian militants committed war crimes and possible crimes against humanity during fighting in January.

    The report "was flawed from A-to-Z", the UN panel was "biased" and some of its findings "ludicrous", said Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev.

    The report called for fresh war crimes inquiries under international scrutiny.

    It said said Israel's "Operation Cast Lead", launched in response to militant rocket fire, used disproportionate firepower against the densely populated Gaza Strip and disregarded the likelihood of civilian deaths.

    The militant group Hamas criticised parts of the report alleging it fired rockets at Israel without distinguishing between military targets and the civilian population.


    Speaking to the BBC, Mr Regev said the panel was "born in sin" because "even the UN" considers the Human Rights Council which commissioned the report "to have a one-side anti-Israeli agenda".


    He also cast doubt on the impartiality of the four-judge panel, led by South African Richard Goldstone, based on comments one of its members had made before the inquiry.

    Mr Regev charged that evidence collected in public hearings in the Gaza Strip, where he said witnesses were subject to intimidation from the militant Hamas movement, had the validity of a "show trial".

    And he rejected the panel's recommendation that the UN Security Council should call on Israel to fully investigate possible violations by its forces, or face possible referral to the International Criminal Court.

    "In the last six months, the investigations Israel has done into its troops' behaviour in the Gaza Strip is 1,000 times more serious than this investigation," Mr Regev said.

    Hamas officials welcomed the Goldstone report's unusually harsh condemnation of Israel, but rejected criticism of itself.

    "The Palestinian people and the Palestinian resistance were in a position of self-defence and not of attack," said senior Hamas official Ismail Haniya.

    "One cannot compare the simple capabilities of the resistance with the great strength of the occupation," he said.

    Israel did not co-operate with the commission and its members had to enter the Gaza Strip from the border, which is under Egyptian supervision.

    At the Israeli Foreign Ministry, a spokesman said a diplomatic offensive was being planned to block possible referral of Israeli commanders or officials to the ICC.

    The Israeli military has conducted investigations into some claims of human rights violations that have found no systematic wrongdoing. Some cases remain pending.

    Palestinians and human rights groups say more than 1,400 Gazans were killed in the violence between 27 December and 16 January, though Israel puts the figure at 1,166. Three Israeli civilians and 10 Israeli soldiers were also killed.

    Mr Goldstone urged "fair-minded people" to read the 574-page report and "at the end of it, point out where it failed to be objective or even-handed".
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited September 2009
    Looks like behind all the usual bluster about bias, one-sidedness, and playing the victim card, the Israeli leadership are shitting themselves:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/se ... rimes-gaza

    '...Israel is concerned that, when the UN human rights council discusses the report later this month, it could agree to pass it to the UN security council. The security council could then decide to pass the findings on to the international criminal court, where arrest warrants could be issued ahead of prosecutions.

    Israel's deputy foreign minister, Danny Ayalon, who is on a visit to Washington, said he would meet the US ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice, to minimise the impact of the report before it reaches the UN security council. Other senior figures from the Israeli government are expected to begin a round of telephone calls with ministers from other governments, particularly the five permanent members of the security council, to head off any decision that might lead to prosecutions. The Ha'aretz newspaper said priority calls would go out to EU nations, in the hope of influencing the debate at the UN human rights council in Geneva.

    The 575-page UN report said that Israeli military personnel should face "individual criminal responsibility" for grave breaches of the laws of war. Although critical of both sides, it singled out Israel and its policy towards the Palestinians of Gaza for the most serious condemnation. It accused Israeli troops of using Palestinians as human shields, a war crime, and said the long Israeli economic blockade of Gaza amounted to "collective punishment intentionally inflicted by the government of Israel on the people of the Gaza Strip".

    It recommended that the UN security council should require Israel to investigate the allegations raised, and if it failed to do so within six months the case should be passed to the prosecutor of the international criminal court. Each country that is a high contracting party to the Geneva conventions had a duty to search for and prosecute those responsible, it said.

    The inquiry rejected Israel's argument that the war was a response to Palestinian rocket fire and therefore an act of self-defence. Instead, it found the war was "a deliberately disproportionate attack designed to punish, humiliate and terrorise a civilian population". Israeli actions depriving Gazans of means of subsistence, employment, housing and water, and denying their freedom of movement "could lead a competent court to find that the crime of persecution, a crime against humanity, had been committed", it said.
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    Superior interview with Norman Finkelstein today on Democracy Now on the UN Gaza Report...check it out by watching, listening or reading.

    UN Inquiry Finds Israel “Punished and Terrorized” Palestinian Civilians, Committed War Crimes During Gaza Assault
    AMY GOODMAN: Israel’s response to the Goldstone report. Your response, Norman Finkelstein?


    NORMAN FINKELSTEIN: Well, Richard Goldstone is a very respected jurist, and he also has a long record of being very supportive of Israel. If I’m not mistaken, he sits on the Hebrew University of Jerusalem board of directors.


    Now, when the UN Human Rights Council asked Goldstone to chair the mission, originally his mandate was just to investigate Israeli crimes. He himself said he couldn’t fulfill that mandate, unless it was modified and included crimes on all sides. The Human Rights Council said, “Fine. We’ll modify the mandate, and we’ll accept your terms.” At that point, Richard Goldstone accepted to head the mission.


    So you have to ask yourself the question: if what the gentleman said were true, why did Goldstone accept? If it were so biased, he always had the option of saying no. Why would a well-known supporter of Israel have accepted that mandate if it were biased against Israel?



    AMY GOODMAN: What do you think, Norman Finkelstein, are the limitations of the report?


    NORMAN FINKELSTEIN: The main limitation of the report is it’s all cast in the language of violations of the laws of war. And the fundamental fact about what happened in Gaza is it wasn’t a war. There was no war in Gaza. That’s the main misunderstanding about what happened there. In fact, one of Israel’s leading strategic analysts, he said—after what happened in Gaza, he said the one mistake Israelis are making is that there was a war there. He said there was no war. There were no battles in Gaza.


    The picture is fairly clear. Israel flew about 3,000 sorties over Gaza. Every plane came back. None was damaged. None was downed. There was no fighting in Gaza. If you read the reports that were issued by the—the testimonies of the Israeli soldiers, the one consistent theme in all of the testimonies was they never met any Hamas militants, they never engaged in any battles. Some of the Israeli soldiers expressed exasperation: “We came here to fight. We’re not fighting anyone.” There was no—there were no battles. There were no Hamas militants in the field. The basic fact was, as a couple of Israeli soldiers said—one of them said, “This was like PlayStation, a computer game.” Another Israeli soldier said, literally—I’m quoting exactly, almost word for word—he said, “It was like a child with a magnifying glass burning ants.” That’s what Gaza was like.


    One soldier after another, literally—I wish listeners would just bring up the report. It’s called “Breaking the Silence.” And then, under—enter under the search mechanism, just enter the word “insane.” One soldier after another after another after another said Israel used insane amounts of firepower. Insane amounts of firepower. There were no soldiers, no battles, but they’re using insane amounts of firepower. One soldier said—two soldiers, actually, talked about how the ground was trembling because of all the bombing and all of the missiles and all of the rockets. Another said that “We were told—even though we were firing in the distance, we were told to evacuate the houses we were in, because the shaking from the distance was going to cause the house to collapse over our heads.”


    It was a massacre in Gaza. And you don’t really see that, because they’re measuring everything against what they call the laws of war. But you’re applying laws of war to a massacre. There was no war there.


    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    g under p wrote:
    Superior interview with Norman Finkelstein today on Democracy Now on the UN Gaza Report...check it out by watching, listening or reading.

    Thanks. I hadn't seen this.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    its nice to see you justifying the use of civilians as human shields.

    I asked you before to explain what you mean. Please go ahead and point out to me where Hamas used human shields. Secondly, point out to me where I justified it. Thanks.

    In the meantime, serious people on the board may like to read the following:

    http://www.democracynow.org/2009/9/16/u ... nished_and

    UN Inquiry Finds Israel “Punished and Terrorized” Palestinian Civilians, Committed War Crimes During Gaza Assault

    NORMAN FINKELSTEIN: Well, the report is the last in a large number of reports that have been issued on the Gaza massacre. There were two significant reports issued by Amnesty International, five reports issued by Human Rights Watch, and a whole slew of Israeli-based human rights organizations have issued reports. But this was the most awaited report of all of them. It was commissioned by the UN Human Rights Council. And Richard Goldstone, as you mentioned in your own introductory remarks, is a significant international figure, legal figure.

    So the report basically is consistent with the findings of the other human rights organizations, that Israel targeted civilians, Israel targeted civilians who were carrying white flags, Israel systematically targeted the Palestinian infrastructure. The findings were consistent with those of the other human rights organizations: Israel is guilty of a very significant number of war crimes. And also, the findings which were—other reports, the same conclusions, that the Palestinians were not using hospitals to hide Hamas officials. There’s no evidence that the ambulances Israel targeted were carrying Hamas militants or ammunition. And most significantly, in terms of the coverage during the Gaza massacre, the report found, as did Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, there’s no evidence whatsoever—and I would want to underline that—there’s no evidence whatsoever that Hamas was guilty of human shielding. But on the other hand, there is significant evidence, actually copious evidence, that Israel was guilty of human shielding.
  • http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/ma ... ory-byline
    An IDF squad leader is quoted in the daily newspaper Ha'aretz as saying his soldiers interpreted the rules to mean "we should kill everyone there [in the centre of Gaza]. Everyone there is a terrorist."
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
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