Final UN Gaza Report
Byrnzie
Posts: 21,037
I wonder if we'll get to see the Israeli leadership sent to the International War Crimes Tribunal at the Hague?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/se ... rael-hamas
UN Gaza report accuses Israel and Hamas of war crimes
15 September 2009
Inquiry into Gaza conflict singles out Israeli policy towards Palestinians for most serious condemnation
Israel's offensive against Gaza last January was "a deliberately disproportionate attack designed to punish, humiliate and terrorise a civilian population", for which some Israelis should face "individual criminal responsibility", a UN investigation has found.
The inquiry, led by the former South African judge Richard Goldstone, concluded that both the Israeli military and Hamas committed war crimes and possible crimes against humanity during the three-week conflict, but singled out Israel and its policy towards the Palestinians of Gaza for the most serious condemnation. The inquiry rejected Israel's argument that the war was a response to Palestinian rocket fire and therefore an act of self-defence.
In a 575-page report (pdf), released tonight, the inquiry said Israel should be required to investigate the allegations raised and if it fails to do so the case should be passed to the prosecutor of the international criminal court. It accused Israel of "grave breaches" of the fourth Geneva convention and of a war crime for using Palestinians as human shields during the fighting.
Israel refused to co-operate with the inquiry, arguing that the UN human rights council, which commissioned the study, is biased against Israel. "Both the mandate of the mission and the resolution establishing it prejudged the outcome of any investigation, gave legitimacy to the Hamas terrorist organisation and disregarded the deliberate Hamas strategy of using Palestinian civilians as cover for launching terrorist attacks," the Israeli foreign ministry said.
But Goldstone, who is Jewish and has strong links with Israel, defended the work of the four-person team. "There should be no impunity for international crimes that are committed," he said. "It's very important that justice should be done."
He rejected any suggestion of bias: "To accuse me of being anti-Israel is ridiculous." He said it was in the interests of both Israel and the Palestinians for the truth to be established.
Goldstone's team looked in detail at 36 incidents during the war. It studied the deaths of 22 members of the Samouni family who, following instructions from Israeli soldiers, were sheltering in a house in Zeitoun, east of Gaza City. The house was then hit by Israeli fire. The killings were a grave breach of the fourth Geneva convention, the inquiry said.
It found seven incidents in which civilians were shot while leaving their homes, waving white flags and sometimes following instructions from Israeli soldiers.
A "direct and intentional attack" on the al-Quds hospital, in the south of Gaza City, which left the building seriously damaged and forced the evacuation of patients, may amount to a war crime.
The report was critical of Palestinian armed groups, saying their rocket fire did not distinguish between civilian and military targets in Israel, caused terror among civilians and amounted to war crimes and possible crimes against humanity.
It said Gilad Shalit, the Israeli soldier captured near Gaza more than three years ago, should be released.'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/se ... rael-hamas
UN Gaza report accuses Israel and Hamas of war crimes
15 September 2009
Inquiry into Gaza conflict singles out Israeli policy towards Palestinians for most serious condemnation
Israel's offensive against Gaza last January was "a deliberately disproportionate attack designed to punish, humiliate and terrorise a civilian population", for which some Israelis should face "individual criminal responsibility", a UN investigation has found.
The inquiry, led by the former South African judge Richard Goldstone, concluded that both the Israeli military and Hamas committed war crimes and possible crimes against humanity during the three-week conflict, but singled out Israel and its policy towards the Palestinians of Gaza for the most serious condemnation. The inquiry rejected Israel's argument that the war was a response to Palestinian rocket fire and therefore an act of self-defence.
In a 575-page report (pdf), released tonight, the inquiry said Israel should be required to investigate the allegations raised and if it fails to do so the case should be passed to the prosecutor of the international criminal court. It accused Israel of "grave breaches" of the fourth Geneva convention and of a war crime for using Palestinians as human shields during the fighting.
Israel refused to co-operate with the inquiry, arguing that the UN human rights council, which commissioned the study, is biased against Israel. "Both the mandate of the mission and the resolution establishing it prejudged the outcome of any investigation, gave legitimacy to the Hamas terrorist organisation and disregarded the deliberate Hamas strategy of using Palestinian civilians as cover for launching terrorist attacks," the Israeli foreign ministry said.
But Goldstone, who is Jewish and has strong links with Israel, defended the work of the four-person team. "There should be no impunity for international crimes that are committed," he said. "It's very important that justice should be done."
He rejected any suggestion of bias: "To accuse me of being anti-Israel is ridiculous." He said it was in the interests of both Israel and the Palestinians for the truth to be established.
Goldstone's team looked in detail at 36 incidents during the war. It studied the deaths of 22 members of the Samouni family who, following instructions from Israeli soldiers, were sheltering in a house in Zeitoun, east of Gaza City. The house was then hit by Israeli fire. The killings were a grave breach of the fourth Geneva convention, the inquiry said.
It found seven incidents in which civilians were shot while leaving their homes, waving white flags and sometimes following instructions from Israeli soldiers.
A "direct and intentional attack" on the al-Quds hospital, in the south of Gaza City, which left the building seriously damaged and forced the evacuation of patients, may amount to a war crime.
The report was critical of Palestinian armed groups, saying their rocket fire did not distinguish between civilian and military targets in Israel, caused terror among civilians and amounted to war crimes and possible crimes against humanity.
It said Gilad Shalit, the Israeli soldier captured near Gaza more than three years ago, should be released.'
Post edited by Unknown User on
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and for anyone who is going to argue that number of deaths isn't the issue.. well bullshit.. 13 Palestinians die each couple of days
And just 3 Israeli civilians died. Ten were IDF soldiers, four of whom were killed by friendly fire. 3 Israeli civilians were killed compared with approx 950 Palestinian civilians, 400 of whom were children. But we're expected to view the situation as being a struggle between equals on a level playing field, not as one modern army committing a massacre against a defenseless civilian population.
And you're right about the media being afraid to criticize Israel. Every time the BBC mentions the settlements being illegal under international law they always feel the need to add 'but Israel disputes this'. As if Israel disputing international law is relevant?
I love this: Everyone is biased against Israel.. It's their response to every criticism. ironic that the Hamas use of civilians as human shields is used as an excuse to bomb and shoot unarmed civilians in their homes, no?
The thing is, the Israeli's have provided no evidence that Hamas used civilians as human shields. No evidence whatsoever. Israel, on the other had, blatantly used Palestinian civilians as human shields. And If I'm wrong about this then anybody can feel free to correct me.
Israel also accused Hezbollah of using human shields during it's bombardment of Lebanon in 2006, but investigators found zero evidence of this.
Honest question. For me the answer is an easy one. It's just 1 part of a much larger messed up story though.
Firstly, it depends on what you mean by 'used'. Used in what way?
Secondly, this issue comes down to a burden of responsibility. Perhaps it's passed you by that 1.5 million people have been imprisoned and collectively punished for voting for the wrong party. Perhaps it passed you by that the Israeli army broke the ceasefire on November 4th 2008 and then in January of this year carried out a massacre of a defenseless civilian population.
You see, the blockade of Gaza is illegal under international law. So is the 40 year occupation.
So I'm not sure I quite understand the motives behind your question. Maybe you can elaborate for me?
No they didn't.
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/former ... nkelstein/
NORMAN FINKELSTEIN: Well, the record is fairly clear. You can find it on the Israeli website, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs website...that Hamas had adhered to the ceasefire from June 17th until November 4th. On November 4th...The record is clear: Israel broke the ceasefire by going into the Gaza and killing six or seven Palestinian militants. At that point—and now I’m quoting the official Israeli website—Hamas retaliated or, in retaliation for the Israeli attack, then launched the missiles.
Now, as to the reason why, the record is fairly clear as well. According to Ha’aretz, Defense Minister Barak began plans for this invasion before the ceasefire even began. In fact, according to yesterday’s Ha’aretz, the plans for the invasion began in March. And the main reasons for the invasion, I think, are twofold. Number one, as Mr. Indyk I think correctly points out, to enhance what Israel calls its deterrence capacity, which in layman’s language basically means Israel’s capacity to terrorize the region into submission. After their defeat in July 2006 in Lebanon, they felt it important to transmit the message that Israel is still a fighting force, still capable of terrorizing those who dare defy its word.
And the second main reason for the attack is because Hamas was signaling that it wanted a diplomatic settlement of the conflict along the June 1967 border. That is to say, Hamas was signaling they had joined the international consensus, they had joined most of the international community, overwhelmingly the international community, in seeking a diplomatic settlement. And at that point, Israel was faced with what Israelis call a Palestinian peace offensive. And in order to defeat the peace offensive, they sought to dismantle Hamas.
What civilians? When?
why did Israel go into Gaza and kill six or seven militants?
You go ahead and tell me. Provide some evidence. And when you've done that, kindly address the fact that the invasion of Gaza had already been planned in March of 2008.
Edit: Here, I'll help you out:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/no ... lestinians
'A four-month ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza was in jeopardy today after Israeli troops killed six Hamas gunmen in a raid into the territory.
Hamas responded by firing a wave of rockets into southern Israel, although no one was injured. The violence represented the most serious break in a ceasefire agreed in mid-June, yet both sides suggested they wanted to return to atmosphere of calm.
Israeli troops crossed into the Gaza Strip late last night near the town of Deir al-Balah. The Israeli military said the target of the raid was a tunnel that they said Hamas was planning to use to capture Israeli soldiers positioned on the border fence 250m away. Four Israeli soldiers were injured in the operation, two moderately and two lightly, the military said...'
The Israeli military said that Hamas was 'planning' to use a tunnel and capture some soldiers.
So, where's the evidence? There isn't any. And none has ever been produced. Israel broke the ceasefire. Period.
Shit, even the Israeli's themselves admit that they broke the ceasefire, but once again Jlew knows better.
the evidence is the tunnel. have I seen it with my own eyes? no I haven't. so I guess it must be made up. :roll: is anyone surprised that Israel took action to stop an illegal tunnel from being dug?
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... t-lead.htm
On 04 November 2008 Israel raided the Gaza Strip in order to thwart the threat of a tunnel being dug by the Gaza border, killing at least 6 Palestinians. This incident is apparently the "incursion" that HAMAS took as the reason for ending the truce. Hamas retaliated with rocket fire. On 12 November 2008, IDF Paratroopers Brigade forces identified a number of armed gunmen attempting to plant an explosive device next to the security fence in the central Gaza Strip. The gunmen exchanged fire with the IDF forces that arrived at the scene. The IDF had recently identified a significant rise in attempts to place explosive devices on the security fence of the Gaza Strip in an attempt to target forces in the area.
From 04 November through 18 December 2008, Hamas and affiliated Palestinian terrorist groups fired 213 rockets and 126 mortar shells into Israel. More than 20 Kassam rockets were fired at southern Israel from Gaza on Wednesday 17 December 2008. In response to the continuous rocket fire from the Gaza Strip upon Israeli territory, IDF forces carried out four aerial strikes against terrorist targets in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday 17 December 2008.
as shown on this board ... showing sympathy to the palestinian plight is akin to loving terrorists ... as like so many other things in this world - we've been brainwashed to believe that it's all the "terrorists" fault ...
this shit has been going on for decades ... well before the existence of hamas or the voting in of hamas ...
The fact that there was a tunnel under the Gaza strip was a good enough reason to break the ceasefire, in your opinion?
Do you know how many tunnels there are in and around the Gaza strip?
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=97933336
'There are literally hundreds, perhaps a thousand tents strung out all along the border across several miles. Each tent represents a tunnel that all day, every day is hauling goods across from Egypt, everything from small refrigerators to cattle to cigarettes to gasoline. And the hum of the generators, the cacophonous hum, is incessant. As you walk here, it's just a tent city. An entire city has essentially sprouted up here along the Egypt-Gaza border, a city committed to smuggling.'
You see, you may not be aware of it, but there's been an illegal blockade of the Gaza strip by Israel since Hamas were voted into power in a free and democratic election in 2006. The blockade has been described as a crime against humanity by every human rights organization and the U.N. The tunnels are the only way for the 1.5 million residents to survive.
Oh, and did you actually read the article I posted at the top of this thread?
The U.N '...inquiry rejected Israel's argument that the war was a response to Palestinian rocket fire and therefore an act of self-defence.'
"as seen on this board" ? what the hell are you talking about?
the only way there will be peace is when Hamas is gone and Israel stops expanding settlements. neither of which seems to be anytime soon.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n01/roy_01_.html
no I don't think its a good enough reason. but it sure was for Israel. maybe Hamas shouldn't have given them a reason to break the ceasefire.
quite the conundrum isnt it? those same tunnels are used to smuggle weapons as well.
Hamas didn't exist in 1948. It didn't exist in 1967 either.
They didn't. There was no reason for Israel to break the ceasefire, other than that they'd been planning a full-scale invasion of Gaza over the previous six months.
dude ... the evidence is OVERWHELMING ... anyone who honestly reads even the base literature on this conflict should understand by now that everything starts and ends with the israelis ... anyone who thinks that "both sides" are equally wrong either choose to ignore this information or don't value human life equally ...
this is the worst present day crime against humanity second only to the iraq war and darfur ...
well they exist now don't they? and its my opinion that Israel will never have friendly relations with them, and visa versa
the tunnel is the reason whether you like it or not.
Israel will never have friendly relations with any Palestinian leadership that doesn't give Israel everything it wants. I.e, control of the entire West bank and all of the land stretching from the Jordan river to the Mediterranean sea.
A very good article here on Israel's blocking any chance of a peaceful settlement for the past 40 years:
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n16/sieg01_.html
The Great Middle East Peace Process Scam
Henry Siegman
'...Palestinian moderates will never prevail over those considered extremists, since what defines moderation for Olmert is Palestinian acquiescence in Israel’s dismemberment of Palestinian territory. In the end, what Olmert and his government are prepared to offer Palestinians will be rejected by Abbas no less than by Hamas, and will only confirm to Palestinians the futility of Abbas’s moderation and justify its rejection by Hamas. Equally illusory are Bush’s expectations of what will be achieved by the conference he recently announced would be held in the autumn (it has now been downgraded to a ‘meeting’). In his view, all previous peace initiatives have failed largely, if not exclusively, because Palestinians were not ready for a state of their own. The meeting will therefore focus narrowly on Palestinian institution-building and reform, under the tutelage of Tony Blair, the Quartet’s newly appointed envoy.
In fact, all previous peace initiatives have got nowhere for a reason that neither Bush nor the EU has had the political courage to acknowledge. That reason is the consensus reached long ago by Israel’s decision-making elites that Israel will never allow the emergence of a Palestinian state which denies it effective military and economic control of the West Bank. To be sure, Israel would allow – indeed, it would insist on – the creation of a number of isolated enclaves that Palestinians could call a state, but only in order to prevent the creation of a binational state in which Palestinians would be the majority.
The Middle East peace process may well be the most spectacular deception in modern diplomatic history. Since the failed Camp David summit of 2000, and actually well before it, Israel’s interest in a peace process – other than for the purpose of obtaining Palestinian and international acceptance of the status quo – has been a fiction that has served primarily to provide cover for its systematic confiscation of Palestinian land and an occupation whose goal, according to the former IDF chief of staff Moshe Ya’alon, is ‘to sear deep into the consciousness of Palestinians that they are a defeated people’...
hey Napoleon, nice to see the tough guy chime in.. any more threats to meet in person? :roll:
I'm not defending Israel....it's merely my opinion that there will never be peace as long as Hamas is in power. I never said I agree with that.
Israel condemns UN's Gaza report
Wednesday, 16 September 2009
The report accuses Israel of failing to protect civilian targets in Gaza
Israel has strongly criticised a UN human rights report into alleged war crimes during the Gaza conflict.
The report said both the Israeli army and Palestinian militants committed war crimes and possible crimes against humanity during fighting in January.
The report "was flawed from A-to-Z", the UN panel was "biased" and some of its findings "ludicrous", said Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev.
The report called for fresh war crimes inquiries under international scrutiny.
It said said Israel's "Operation Cast Lead", launched in response to militant rocket fire, used disproportionate firepower against the densely populated Gaza Strip and disregarded the likelihood of civilian deaths.
The militant group Hamas criticised parts of the report alleging it fired rockets at Israel without distinguishing between military targets and the civilian population.
Speaking to the BBC, Mr Regev said the panel was "born in sin" because "even the UN" considers the Human Rights Council which commissioned the report "to have a one-side anti-Israeli agenda".
He also cast doubt on the impartiality of the four-judge panel, led by South African Richard Goldstone, based on comments one of its members had made before the inquiry.
Mr Regev charged that evidence collected in public hearings in the Gaza Strip, where he said witnesses were subject to intimidation from the militant Hamas movement, had the validity of a "show trial".
And he rejected the panel's recommendation that the UN Security Council should call on Israel to fully investigate possible violations by its forces, or face possible referral to the International Criminal Court.
"In the last six months, the investigations Israel has done into its troops' behaviour in the Gaza Strip is 1,000 times more serious than this investigation," Mr Regev said.
Hamas officials welcomed the Goldstone report's unusually harsh condemnation of Israel, but rejected criticism of itself.
"The Palestinian people and the Palestinian resistance were in a position of self-defence and not of attack," said senior Hamas official Ismail Haniya.
"One cannot compare the simple capabilities of the resistance with the great strength of the occupation," he said.
Israel did not co-operate with the commission and its members had to enter the Gaza Strip from the border, which is under Egyptian supervision.
At the Israeli Foreign Ministry, a spokesman said a diplomatic offensive was being planned to block possible referral of Israeli commanders or officials to the ICC.
The Israeli military has conducted investigations into some claims of human rights violations that have found no systematic wrongdoing. Some cases remain pending.
Palestinians and human rights groups say more than 1,400 Gazans were killed in the violence between 27 December and 16 January, though Israel puts the figure at 1,166. Three Israeli civilians and 10 Israeli soldiers were also killed.
Mr Goldstone urged "fair-minded people" to read the 574-page report and "at the end of it, point out where it failed to be objective or even-handed".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/se ... rimes-gaza
'...Israel is concerned that, when the UN human rights council discusses the report later this month, it could agree to pass it to the UN security council. The security council could then decide to pass the findings on to the international criminal court, where arrest warrants could be issued ahead of prosecutions.
Israel's deputy foreign minister, Danny Ayalon, who is on a visit to Washington, said he would meet the US ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice, to minimise the impact of the report before it reaches the UN security council. Other senior figures from the Israeli government are expected to begin a round of telephone calls with ministers from other governments, particularly the five permanent members of the security council, to head off any decision that might lead to prosecutions. The Ha'aretz newspaper said priority calls would go out to EU nations, in the hope of influencing the debate at the UN human rights council in Geneva.
The 575-page UN report said that Israeli military personnel should face "individual criminal responsibility" for grave breaches of the laws of war. Although critical of both sides, it singled out Israel and its policy towards the Palestinians of Gaza for the most serious condemnation. It accused Israeli troops of using Palestinians as human shields, a war crime, and said the long Israeli economic blockade of Gaza amounted to "collective punishment intentionally inflicted by the government of Israel on the people of the Gaza Strip".
It recommended that the UN security council should require Israel to investigate the allegations raised, and if it failed to do so within six months the case should be passed to the prosecutor of the international criminal court. Each country that is a high contracting party to the Geneva conventions had a duty to search for and prosecute those responsible, it said.
The inquiry rejected Israel's argument that the war was a response to Palestinian rocket fire and therefore an act of self-defence. Instead, it found the war was "a deliberately disproportionate attack designed to punish, humiliate and terrorise a civilian population". Israeli actions depriving Gazans of means of subsistence, employment, housing and water, and denying their freedom of movement "could lead a competent court to find that the crime of persecution, a crime against humanity, had been committed", it said.
UN Inquiry Finds Israel “Punished and Terrorized” Palestinian Civilians, Committed War Crimes During Gaza Assault
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Thanks. I hadn't seen this.
I asked you before to explain what you mean. Please go ahead and point out to me where Hamas used human shields. Secondly, point out to me where I justified it. Thanks.
In the meantime, serious people on the board may like to read the following:
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/9/16/u ... nished_and
UN Inquiry Finds Israel “Punished and Terrorized” Palestinian Civilians, Committed War Crimes During Gaza Assault
NORMAN FINKELSTEIN: Well, the report is the last in a large number of reports that have been issued on the Gaza massacre. There were two significant reports issued by Amnesty International, five reports issued by Human Rights Watch, and a whole slew of Israeli-based human rights organizations have issued reports. But this was the most awaited report of all of them. It was commissioned by the UN Human Rights Council. And Richard Goldstone, as you mentioned in your own introductory remarks, is a significant international figure, legal figure.
So the report basically is consistent with the findings of the other human rights organizations, that Israel targeted civilians, Israel targeted civilians who were carrying white flags, Israel systematically targeted the Palestinian infrastructure. The findings were consistent with those of the other human rights organizations: Israel is guilty of a very significant number of war crimes. And also, the findings which were—other reports, the same conclusions, that the Palestinians were not using hospitals to hide Hamas officials. There’s no evidence that the ambulances Israel targeted were carrying Hamas militants or ammunition. And most significantly, in terms of the coverage during the Gaza massacre, the report found, as did Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, there’s no evidence whatsoever—and I would want to underline that—there’s no evidence whatsoever that Hamas was guilty of human shielding. But on the other hand, there is significant evidence, actually copious evidence, that Israel was guilty of human shielding.
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'