America is presently housing a terrorist known for blowing up a Cuban airliner, amongst other crimes.
But then I suppose we shouldn't apply the same standard here and say that America should therefore be bombed and occupied.
...
No. I... ME... COSMO... believes we should turn the hijacker over to Cuban authorities.
But, if Cuba wants to try to send over their Cuban Air Force P-51s on bombing raids and their Naval landing forces to occupy Arizona... they are welcome to.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
So, yeah... the only open diplomatic channel was used and the Taliban refused to comply and offered to try Bin Laden in Islamic Court in Afghanistan... a court system that is probably not one of gleeming examples of justice, in my opinion.
Of course. Because, as we all know well enough, the United States court system is a "gleeming example of justice."
So, yeah... the only open diplomatic channel was used and the Taliban refused to comply and offered to try Bin Laden in Islamic Court in Afghanistan... a court system that is probably not one of gleeming examples of justice, in my opinion.
Of course. Because, as we all know well enough, the United States court system is a "gleeming example of justice."
...
If given the choice... I'll take Orange County Superior Court over Taliban Shiria Law Tribunals.
But, you are more than welcome to try theirs.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
They went through the only country with diplomatic ties to Afghanistan, Pakistan (who, originally set-up the Taliban in Afghanistan after the Soviet Union withdrew its forces in the early 90s(?) to talk to Taliban leaders to turn over Bin Laden and open their trainning camps for inspection. Up to September 11, 2001... there were only 3 countries with diplomatic ties to Afghanistan... Saudi Arabia and U.A.E. (or was it Qutar?) cut their ties after the attacks in New York and Washington, D.C.
Remember, the Taliban was set up by Pakistani Intelligence services as a safe house for Islamic fundamentalist to deal with thier own internal problems with them. The Taliban set up a fundamentalist state under Shiria Law.
So, yeah... the only open diplomatic channel was used and the Taliban refused to comply and offered to try Bin Laden in Islamic Court in Afghanistan... a court system that is probably not one of gleeming examples of justice, in my opinion. What was negotiated between the two.. i have no idea. But, that channel was used.
...
Yeah... I was paying attention to all of this and supported this action...
But, not anymore. I feel it is a lost cause and a basket case. I feel we might have had greater success, had we 'Stayed The Course' in Afghanistan, instead of going after Saddam Hussein. But now.. it is so fucked up... there's nothing we can do to help.
Futhermore... I believe the United States now needs to pay restitution to both Afghanistan and Iraq for shitting all over the place and making it even worse than it was when we went in there. We should be held responsible and accountable for our actions. Back in 2002... I felt differnt about Afghanistan. Today, I say it's time to bring our troops home... and pay for the damages we've inflicted of those countries. If it bankrupts us... well... we should of thought of that in 2003.
'...Mohabbat says the Taliban were flown to Quetta in two C-130s. There they agreed to the three demands sought by the US team: 1. Immediate handover of bin Laden; 2. Extradition of foreigners in Al Qaeda who were wanted in their home countries; 3. shut-down of bin Laden's bases and training camps. Mohabbat says the Taliban agreed to all three demands.
This meeting in Quetta was reported in carefully vague terms by Pizzey on September 25, where Mohabbat was mentioned by name. He tells us that the Bush administration was far more exercised by this story than by any other event in the whole delayed and ultimately abandoned schedule of killing Osama.
On October 18, Mohabbat tells us, he was invited to the US embassy in Islamabad and told that "there was light at the end of the tunnel for him", which translated into an invitation to occupy the role later assigned to Karzai. Mohabbat declined, saying he had no desire for the role of puppet and probable fall guy.
A few days later the Pizzey story was aired and Mohabbat drew the ire of the Bush administration where he already had an enemy in the form of Zalmay Khalilzad, appointed on September 22 as the US special envoy to Afghanistan. After giving him a dressing down, US officials told Mohabbat the game had changed, and he should tell the Taliban the new terms: surrender or be killed. Mohabbat declined to be the bearer of this news and went off the US government payroll.
Towards the end of that same month of October, 2001 Mohabbat was successfully negotiating with the Taliban for the release of Heather Mercer (acting in a private capacity at the request of her father) when the Taliban once again said they would hand over Osama Bin Laden unconditionally. Mohabbat tells us he relayed the offer to David Donahue, the US consulate general in Islamabad. He was told, in his words,that "the train had moved". Shortly thereafter the US bombing of Afghanistan began.
In December Mohabbat was in Pakistan following with wry amusement the assault on Osama bin Laden's supposed mountain redoubt in Tora Bora, in the mountains bordering Pakistan. At the time he said, he informed US embassy officials the attack was a waste of time. Taliban leaders had told him that Bin Laden was nowhere near Tora Bora but in Waziristan. Knowing that the US was monitoring his cell phone traffic, Osama had sent a decoy to Tora Bora.
From the documents he's supplied us and from his detailed account we regard Kabir Mohabbat's story as credible and are glad to make public his story of the truly incredible failure of the Bush administration to accept the Taliban's offer to eliminate Bin Laden. As a consequence of this failure more than 3,000 Americans and thousands of Afghans died. Mohabbat himself narrowly escaped death on two occasions when Al Qaeda, apprised of his role, tried to kill him. In Kabul in February, 2001, a bomb was detonated in his hotel in Kabul. Later that year, in July, a hand grenade thrown in his room in a hotel in Kandahar failed to explode.
He told his story to the 9/11 Commission (whose main concern, he tells us, was that he not divulge his testimony to anyone else), also to the 9/11 Families who were pursuing a lawsuit based on the assumption of US intelligence blunders by the FBI and CIA. He says his statements were not much use to the families since his judgment was, and still remains, that it was not intelligence failures that allowed the 9/11 attacks, but criminal negligence by the Bush administration.'
Well it all depends... If Italy openly ran terrorist trainning facilities that propigated groups that had global reach... and the rest of the world community used up its diplomatic resources and Italy continued to host the ones who freely claimed credit for the attacks and continued to fund their terrorist facilities... then, I guess my answer would be... Yes. The United States along with their European and NATO Allies would be left with no other alternative than use of military force.
So are you saying that the U.S government used up it's diplomatic resources with regards to the Taliban? If so, please elaborate.
...
They went through the only country with diplomatic ties to Afghanistan, Pakistan (who, originally set-up the Taliban in Afghanistan after the Soviet Union withdrew its forces in the early 90s(?) to talk to Taliban leaders to turn over Bin Laden and open their trainning camps for inspection. Up to September 11, 2001... there were only 3 countries with diplomatic ties to Afghanistan... Saudi Arabia and U.A.E. (or was it Qutar?) cut their ties after the attacks in New York and Washington, D.C.
Remember, the Taliban was set up by Pakistani Intelligence services as a safe house for Islamic fundamentalist to deal with thier own internal problems with them. The Taliban set up a fundamentalist state under Shiria Law.
So, yeah... the only open diplomatic channel was used and the Taliban refused to comply and offered to try Bin Laden in Islamic Court in Afghanistan... a court system that is probably not one of gleeming examples of justice, in my opinion. What was negotiated between the two.. i have no idea. But, that channel was used.
...
Yeah... I was paying attention to all of this and supported this action...
But, not anymore. I feel it is a lost cause and a basket case. I feel we might have had greater success, had we 'Stayed The Course' in Afghanistan, instead of going after Saddam Hussein. But now.. it is so fucked up... there's nothing we can do to help.
Futhermore... I believe the United States now needs to pay restitution to both Afghanistan and Iraq for shitting all over the place and making it even worse than it was when we went in there. We should be held responsible and accountable for our actions. Back in 2002... I felt differnt about Afghanistan. Today, I say it's time to bring our troops home... and pay for the damages we've inflicted of those countries. If it bankrupts us... well... we should of thought of that in 2003.
Anyway, this is all beside the point. I've already shown elsewhere that the U.S intended to attack Afghanistan about 3 years prior to 9/11. 9/11 simply gave them the excuse they'd been looking for.
'...Mohabbat says the Taliban were flown to Quetta in two C-130s. There they agreed to the three demands sought by the US team: 1. Immediate handover of bin Laden; 2. Extradition of foreigners in Al Qaeda who were wanted in their home countries; 3. shut-down of bin Laden's bases and training camps. Mohabbat says the Taliban agreed to all three demands.
This meeting in Quetta was reported in carefully vague terms by Pizzey on September 25, where Mohabbat was mentioned by name. He tells us that the Bush administration was far more exercised by this story than by any other event in the whole delayed and ultimately abandoned schedule of killing Osama.
On October 18, Mohabbat tells us, he was invited to the US embassy in Islamabad and told that "there was light at the end of the tunnel for him", which translated into an invitation to occupy the role later assigned to Karzai. Mohabbat declined, saying he had no desire for the role of puppet and probable fall guy.
A few days later the Pizzey story was aired and Mohabbat drew the ire of the Bush administration where he already had an enemy in the form of Zalmay Khalilzad, appointed on September 22 as the US special envoy to Afghanistan. After giving him a dressing down, US officials told Mohabbat the game had changed, and he should tell the Taliban the new terms: surrender or be killed. Mohabbat declined to be the bearer of this news and went off the US government payroll.
Towards the end of that same month of October, 2001 Mohabbat was successfully negotiating with the Taliban for the release of Heather Mercer (acting in a private capacity at the request of her father) when the Taliban once again said they would hand over Osama Bin Laden unconditionally. Mohabbat tells us he relayed the offer to David Donahue, the US consulate general in Islamabad. He was told, in his words,that "the train had moved". Shortly thereafter the US bombing of Afghanistan began.
In December Mohabbat was in Pakistan following with wry amusement the assault on Osama bin Laden's supposed mountain redoubt in Tora Bora, in the mountains bordering Pakistan. At the time he said, he informed US embassy officials the attack was a waste of time. Taliban leaders had told him that Bin Laden was nowhere near Tora Bora but in Waziristan. Knowing that the US was monitoring his cell phone traffic, Osama had sent a decoy to Tora Bora.
From the documents he's supplied us and from his detailed account we regard Kabir Mohabbat's story as credible and are glad to make public his story of the truly incredible failure of the Bush administration to accept the Taliban's offer to eliminate Bin Laden. As a consequence of this failure more than 3,000 Americans and thousands of Afghans died. Mohabbat himself narrowly escaped death on two occasions when Al Qaeda, apprised of his role, tried to kill him. In Kabul in February, 2001, a bomb was detonated in his hotel in Kabul. Later that year, in July, a hand grenade thrown in his room in a hotel in Kandahar failed to explode.
He told his story to the 9/11 Commission (whose main concern, he tells us, was that he not divulge his testimony to anyone else), also to the 9/11 Families who were pursuing a lawsuit based on the assumption of US intelligence blunders by the FBI and CIA. He says his statements were not much use to the families since his judgment was, and still remains, that it was not intelligence failures that allowed the 9/11 attacks, but criminal negligence by the Bush administration.'
...
That verifies my statement that the U.S. went through the only diplomatic channel that existed.
I'm not arguing what went on in those negotiations... I was not privy to them. It was 'The Decider' that made that call. And yes... he is responsible for making that call. And yes... I supported President Bush in the Afghanistan campaign. Had you given me this information in 2002... i might have felt differently. What took you so long? It does me no good 7 years after the fact.
...
But whatever Bush decided on, it still does NOT nullify the United States justification for actions against the Taliban government of Afghanistan. Was it the right thing to do... military force in Afghanistan... in 2001/2002? I believed so (except for the alliance we made with the Opium Warlords (a.k.a. 'The Northern Alliance') because they have the words, 'Opium', 'War' and 'Lords' right there in their job titles).
...
And why are we even debating this? I'm not defending the Bush Administration... I'm saying that the Taliban ruled Afghanistan holds a great deal of responsible for their actions... that of trainning and hosting Al qaeda, who, in turn, had the global reach to hit us. Are you arguing that they were merely unwitting, innocent landlords in this?
...
I didn't think so.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
So, yeah... the only open diplomatic channel was used and the Taliban refused to comply and offered to try Bin Laden in Islamic Court in Afghanistan... a court system that is probably not one of gleeming examples of justice, in my opinion.
Of course. Because, as we all know well enough, the United States court system is a "gleeming example of justice."
...
If given the choice... I'll take Orange County Superior Court over Taliban Shiria Law Tribunals.
But, you are more than welcome to try theirs.
I'm sure these guys would've given anything to be tried in Afghanistan, or any other country for that matter.
Well it all depends... If Italy openly ran terrorist trainning facilities that propigated groups that had global reach... and the rest of the world community used up its diplomatic resources and Italy continued to host the ones who freely claimed credit for the attacks and continued to fund their terrorist facilities... then, I guess my answer would be... Yes. The United States along with their European and NATO Allies would be left with no other alternative than use of military force.
So are you saying that the U.S government used up it's diplomatic resources with regards to the Taliban? If so, please elaborate.
And NO... I do not believe that America... or anyone is 'Above The Law'. Which one of my comments/statements triggered this question?
Your comment/statement that says that the U.S had the right to bomb the shit out of Afghanistan, and occupy their land in order to apprehend some Saudi Arabians who were allegedly responsible for a crime committed in America.
who also received a large sum of money from the head of the ISI a few days before.....
also US tax money helped build many of those terrorist training camps....in fact before the CIA and a few other countries started funding bin laden he was in a different group, then with his skill in training and construction ties we pumped him full of money to build training camps to fight the soviets.....funny how things come full circle, kinds like Israel helping us sell Iran thousands of missiles and now they say Iran is supplying rockets to Palestinians
but back to the point, what's wrong with asking for proof? if some country demanded an american for a crime wouldn't we ask for proof or would we just say ok, here ya go! ?
and yes, we harbor terrorists who blew up planes, assassinated leaders and refuse to extradite him.
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
"Prosecutors never argued that the charity, the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, or any of its officials were ever involved in violence, either through funding it or directly participating in it. Instead, they told the jury that the charity sent money to schools, hospitals and social welfare programs that were controlled by Hamas, a group listed as a terrorist organization by the US State Department since 1995.
Edward Abington, the former number two intelligence official at the State Department (and ex-US consul in Jerusalem), told jurors he was never told that the Palestinian charity committees supported by Holy Land were part of Hamas in the daily intelligence briefings he received. In fact, these same charities, or "zakat committees," still receive donations from the U.S. Agency for International Development and the International Red Cross."
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Comments
No. I... ME... COSMO... believes we should turn the hijacker over to Cuban authorities.
But, if Cuba wants to try to send over their Cuban Air Force P-51s on bombing raids and their Naval landing forces to occupy Arizona... they are welcome to.
Hail, Hail!!!
If given the choice... I'll take Orange County Superior Court over Taliban Shiria Law Tribunals.
But, you are more than welcome to try theirs.
Hail, Hail!!!
http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn11012004.html
How Bush Was Offered Bin Laden and Blew It
'...Mohabbat says the Taliban were flown to Quetta in two C-130s. There they agreed to the three demands sought by the US team: 1. Immediate handover of bin Laden; 2. Extradition of foreigners in Al Qaeda who were wanted in their home countries; 3. shut-down of bin Laden's bases and training camps. Mohabbat says the Taliban agreed to all three demands.
This meeting in Quetta was reported in carefully vague terms by Pizzey on September 25, where Mohabbat was mentioned by name. He tells us that the Bush administration was far more exercised by this story than by any other event in the whole delayed and ultimately abandoned schedule of killing Osama.
On October 18, Mohabbat tells us, he was invited to the US embassy in Islamabad and told that "there was light at the end of the tunnel for him", which translated into an invitation to occupy the role later assigned to Karzai. Mohabbat declined, saying he had no desire for the role of puppet and probable fall guy.
A few days later the Pizzey story was aired and Mohabbat drew the ire of the Bush administration where he already had an enemy in the form of Zalmay Khalilzad, appointed on September 22 as the US special envoy to Afghanistan. After giving him a dressing down, US officials told Mohabbat the game had changed, and he should tell the Taliban the new terms: surrender or be killed. Mohabbat declined to be the bearer of this news and went off the US government payroll.
Towards the end of that same month of October, 2001 Mohabbat was successfully negotiating with the Taliban for the release of Heather Mercer (acting in a private capacity at the request of her father) when the Taliban once again said they would hand over Osama Bin Laden unconditionally. Mohabbat tells us he relayed the offer to David Donahue, the US consulate general in Islamabad. He was told, in his words,that "the train had moved". Shortly thereafter the US bombing of Afghanistan began.
In December Mohabbat was in Pakistan following with wry amusement the assault on Osama bin Laden's supposed mountain redoubt in Tora Bora, in the mountains bordering Pakistan. At the time he said, he informed US embassy officials the attack was a waste of time. Taliban leaders had told him that Bin Laden was nowhere near Tora Bora but in Waziristan. Knowing that the US was monitoring his cell phone traffic, Osama had sent a decoy to Tora Bora.
From the documents he's supplied us and from his detailed account we regard Kabir Mohabbat's story as credible and are glad to make public his story of the truly incredible failure of the Bush administration to accept the Taliban's offer to eliminate Bin Laden. As a consequence of this failure more than 3,000 Americans and thousands of Afghans died. Mohabbat himself narrowly escaped death on two occasions when Al Qaeda, apprised of his role, tried to kill him. In Kabul in February, 2001, a bomb was detonated in his hotel in Kabul. Later that year, in July, a hand grenade thrown in his room in a hotel in Kandahar failed to explode.
He told his story to the 9/11 Commission (whose main concern, he tells us, was that he not divulge his testimony to anyone else), also to the 9/11 Families who were pursuing a lawsuit based on the assumption of US intelligence blunders by the FBI and CIA. He says his statements were not much use to the families since his judgment was, and still remains, that it was not intelligence failures that allowed the 9/11 attacks, but criminal negligence by the Bush administration.'
Anyway, this is all beside the point. I've already shown elsewhere that the U.S intended to attack Afghanistan about 3 years prior to 9/11. 9/11 simply gave them the excuse they'd been looking for.
That verifies my statement that the U.S. went through the only diplomatic channel that existed.
I'm not arguing what went on in those negotiations... I was not privy to them. It was 'The Decider' that made that call. And yes... he is responsible for making that call. And yes... I supported President Bush in the Afghanistan campaign. Had you given me this information in 2002... i might have felt differently. What took you so long? It does me no good 7 years after the fact.
...
But whatever Bush decided on, it still does NOT nullify the United States justification for actions against the Taliban government of Afghanistan. Was it the right thing to do... military force in Afghanistan... in 2001/2002? I believed so (except for the alliance we made with the Opium Warlords (a.k.a. 'The Northern Alliance') because they have the words, 'Opium', 'War' and 'Lords' right there in their job titles).
...
And why are we even debating this? I'm not defending the Bush Administration... I'm saying that the Taliban ruled Afghanistan holds a great deal of responsible for their actions... that of trainning and hosting Al qaeda, who, in turn, had the global reach to hit us. Are you arguing that they were merely unwitting, innocent landlords in this?
...
I didn't think so.
Hail, Hail!!!
http://www.alternet.org/story/108740/
who also received a large sum of money from the head of the ISI a few days before.....
also US tax money helped build many of those terrorist training camps....in fact before the CIA and a few other countries started funding bin laden he was in a different group, then with his skill in training and construction ties we pumped him full of money to build training camps to fight the soviets.....funny how things come full circle, kinds like Israel helping us sell Iran thousands of missiles and now they say Iran is supplying rockets to Palestinians
but back to the point, what's wrong with asking for proof? if some country demanded an american for a crime wouldn't we ask for proof or would we just say ok, here ya go! ?
and yes, we harbor terrorists who blew up planes, assassinated leaders and refuse to extradite him.
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
disgusting
"Prosecutors never argued that the charity, the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, or any of its officials were ever involved in violence, either through funding it or directly participating in it. Instead, they told the jury that the charity sent money to schools, hospitals and social welfare programs that were controlled by Hamas, a group listed as a terrorist organization by the US State Department since 1995.
Edward Abington, the former number two intelligence official at the State Department (and ex-US consul in Jerusalem), told jurors he was never told that the Palestinian charity committees supported by Holy Land were part of Hamas in the daily intelligence briefings he received. In fact, these same charities, or "zakat committees," still receive donations from the U.S. Agency for International Development and the International Red Cross."
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'