Why has the word they become singular?
"If a person does not vote, they can't complain."
"Someone gets behind the wheel. They have been drinking."
The correct pronoun is he.He can't complain. He has been drinking. Is "they" the politically correct term for an individual, because "he" is too masculine? I can say "He or she" in about a second. It's three easy syllables!
Let's not forget alot.
he/she is only the correct pronoun when the sex of the subject has been identified. when the subject is nonspecific then how can the pronoun, plural or singular, be??
in your example of "If a person does not vote, they can't complain." , the they pronoun is third person. im not talking about me not voting, im not talking about you not voting, im talking about an undetermined and nonspecific someone else. therefore the use of the pronoun they is acceptable.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
All this stuff drives me absolutely nuts and, worse, it really worries me. How can grown adults not know correct grammar? I know college students planning to go to med school who talk like this - because they actually think it's correct! Even if they just don't care, I still think that's a problem. Plus, it's just painful to read and hear. I actually have to correct it in my mind when I read incorrect grammar.
For the record, I can understand typos, misspellings (I suck at spelling), and a few differences of opinion ("they" as plural, for instance, which I think is never correct) - and there are a few things that I somehow never learned in school (take vs. bring, for instance). But I think we've reached a new level of grammatical incompetence.
I went to a spa recently and the brochures were so filled with grammatical errors, formatting inconsistencies, etc. that I would have decided to not go there if it weren't for the fact that I had a gift certificate. It was so painful and I felt so bad for the owner, who actually did provide good services, that I offered to revise the brochures for free.
Here's another one that irks me: "Your call will be answered in the order it was received." Anyone else have a problem with this sentence?
...
For the record, I can understand typos, misspellings (I suck at spelling), and a few differences of opinion ("they" as plural, for instance, which I think is never correct) - and there are a few things that I somehow never learned in school (take vs. bring, for instance). But I think we've reached a new level of grammatical incompetence. ...
bob: where did those dogs go??
jenny: they ran around the corner
how is they as a plural never correct???
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
...
For the record, I can understand typos, misspellings (I suck at spelling), and a few differences of opinion ("they" as plural, for instance, which I think is never correct) - and there are a few things that I somehow never learned in school (take vs. bring, for instance). But I think we've reached a new level of grammatical incompetence. ...
bob: where did those dogs go??
jenny: they ran around the corner
how is they as a plural never correct???
Haha... SINGULAR... I meant "they" as SINGULAR is never correct (in my opinion). Figures I'd screw that up in a thread about people screwing up what they write. What can I say? It's really late here and I'm exhausted. :oops:
Haha... SINGULAR... I meant "they" as SINGULAR is never correct (in my opinion). Figures I'd screw that up in a thread about people screwing up what they write. What can I say? It's really late here and I'm exhausted. :oops:
I did that in a thread on the Porch as well. An amazingly kind person, with a great sense of humour, thoughtfully sent me a pm to let me know. After I stopped laughing, I quickly went and corrected it. :oops:
Every time I contribute to this thread, I'm thinking, "those in glass houses . . .." :?
"What the CANUCK happened?!? - Esquimalt Barber Shop
I know I'm not the only spelling and grammar dork out there....I mean, I know I don't always say or type things right myself, but this particular phrase prompted me to start a thread:
"I could care less"
Am I the only person that gets irritated when people say this?? it's "I COULDN'T care less!!"
think about it--it just makes sense....I know it HAS to drive other people crazy besides me, right???
it doth drive the dunkman insaneth
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Well, it's one thing to be tired or in a hurry and misspell something, post the wrong word, or leave a word out. It's just a message board and people will either figure out what you meant or (lucky you) point out your error. But to actually have something in print with those kinds of mistakes just blows my mind. Our local snoozepaper seems to be full of errors every day. I guess they're not 100% the paper's fault; today I saw an obituary that had the sentence: "He had a rye wit." :?
Back to those pesky apostrophes. How often have you seen our new President's name written as O'Bama? With all the debates about his birthplace, I never heard any discussion about Ireland. :roll:
I know I'm not the only spelling and grammar dork out there....I mean, I know I don't always say or type things right myself, but this particular phrase prompted me to start a thread:
"I could care less"
Am I the only person that gets irritated when people say this?? it's "I COULDN'T care less!!"
think about it--it just makes sense....I know it HAS to drive other people crazy besides me, right???
I admit that I'm kind of a snob when it comes to bad writing. It makes me cringe a little to see "your" when people mean "you're" or when they write "could of" when they mean "could have."
Since education to high school is free in the US, it just makes some people seem careless when they speak, spell, and write simple ideas poorly. :geek:
he/she is only the correct pronoun when the sex of the subject has been identified. when the subject is nonspecific then how can the pronoun, plural or singular, be??
in your example of "If a person does not vote, they can't complain." , the they pronoun is third person. im not talking about me not voting, im not talking about you not voting, im talking about an undetermined and nonspecific someone else. therefore the use of the pronoun they is acceptable.
I must have been taught a different grammar lesson than you. If there are regional or generational variations, that could explain the problem. I learned that the singular pronoun "he" is used to refer to a person of unspecified gender. It is also used when the person is known to be male. "She" is only used when a person is known to be of female gender. "He" is the default word to be used for a hypothetical individual, and the undetermined and nonspecific someone from your quote. To you, it seems wrong to assign gender to this person. To me, it seems wrong to make him plural.
When I was a child, the huge majority of all books and printed materials used the word "he" almost constantly. In my teens, the phrase "he or she" was more acceptable. Then it became common for books to alternate between both "he" and "she." (For example, a child care book would use "he" for the subject of the first chapter, "she" for the second chapter.)
In the past couple of years, I've noticed "they" replacing "he or she" in pop culture. So far, I have not seen a professionally printed book use "they" as a singular... But it's probably just a matter of time.
he/she is only the correct pronoun when the sex of the subject has been identified. when the subject is nonspecific then how can the pronoun, plural or singular, be??
in your example of "If a person does not vote, they can't complain." , the they pronoun is third person. im not talking about me not voting, im not talking about you not voting, im talking about an undetermined and nonspecific someone else. therefore the use of the pronoun they is acceptable.
I must have been taught a different grammar lesson than you. If there are regional or generational variations, that could explain the problem. I learned that the singular pronoun "he" is used to refer to a person of unspecified gender. It is also used when the person is known to be male. "She" is only used when a person is known to be of female gender. "He" is the default word to be used for a hypothetical individual, and the undetermined and nonspecific someone from your quote. To you, it seems wrong to assign gender to this person. To me, it seems wrong to make him plural.
When I was a child, the huge majority of all books and printed materials used the word "he" almost constantly. In my teens, the phrase "he or she" was more acceptable. Then it became common for books to alternate between both "he" and "she." (For example, a child care book would use "he" for the subject of the first chapter, "she" for the second chapter.)
In the past couple of years, I've noticed "they" replacing "he or she" in pop culture. So far, I have not seen a professionally printed book use "they" as a singular... But it's probably just a matter of time.
its not about assigning wrong gender... its about the use of they as a third person plural pronoun in a situation where an indefinite article, in this instance a, is used to identify the membership of a group. the person in our example is non specific, we could be talking about any person who does not vote, not a particular person who has already been identified.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
why does this thread title have a capitalised C, S and G yet the 'and' is in lower case?
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
There's some real grammar love going on in here. May I offer a suggestion? When clarifying specific rules of grammar it would be helpful (for those of us who haven't been in an English classroom in over a decade, or those of us who don't pay attention in English class because we are too busy texting things like "2g2f... lulz") if we could give specific example sentences displaying the incorrect and correct usage of the rule.
Just a thought... anyone else?
Post edited by HeavyHands on
"A lot more people are capable of being big out there that just don't give themselves a chance." -Stone Gossard
There's some real grammar love going on in here. May I offer a suggestion? When clarifying specific rules of grammar it would be helpful (for those of us who haven't been in an English classroom in over a decade, or those of us who don't pay attention in English class because we are too busy texting things like "2g2f... lulz") if we could give specific example sentences displaying the incorrect and correct usage of the rule.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Now you're making me remember why I hated telling people that I was an English teacher. It was like saying you had an STD or just got out of prison. People would say things like, "Well! I guess I'll have to watch my grammar around you!" And I'd say, "Yeah, because I'm going to give a test in 10 minutes!" Or they'd say, "I always hated English. It was my worst subject in school." Apparently I was supposed to get all Freudian and help them recover from the memories of their 7th grade English teacher.
So I usually tried to throw in a few ungrammatical bits of my own to make people feel comfortable, let them think like my hick relatives: "All that book learning and not a lick of sense."
In other words, this is the Pit, people! I don't give a shit how you post stuff here! I'm talking about how people write business letters, reports, brochures, magazine articles, books! THAT'S when all this stuff drives me crazy! :!: :ugeek:
Comments
Huh? Who doesn't know that!!? :? I thought everyone knew that! My 7 year old niece knows that!
★ 2009 - Sydney, Brisbane, Auckland, Christchurch ★
★ 2011 - EV Newcastle, Melbourne 1, Melbourne 2 ★
My friend is a teacher (grade 5) and she sent me an engagement party invite:
As you would of already heard, we got engaged
And she's teaching our youth!
★ 2009 - Sydney, Brisbane, Auckland, Christchurch ★
★ 2011 - EV Newcastle, Melbourne 1, Melbourne 2 ★
he/she is only the correct pronoun when the sex of the subject has been identified. when the subject is nonspecific then how can the pronoun, plural or singular, be??
in your example of "If a person does not vote, they can't complain." , the they pronoun is third person. im not talking about me not voting, im not talking about you not voting, im talking about an undetermined and nonspecific someone else. therefore the use of the pronoun they is acceptable.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
All this stuff drives me absolutely nuts and, worse, it really worries me. How can grown adults not know correct grammar? I know college students planning to go to med school who talk like this - because they actually think it's correct! Even if they just don't care, I still think that's a problem. Plus, it's just painful to read and hear. I actually have to correct it in my mind when I read incorrect grammar.
For the record, I can understand typos, misspellings (I suck at spelling), and a few differences of opinion ("they" as plural, for instance, which I think is never correct) - and there are a few things that I somehow never learned in school (take vs. bring, for instance). But I think we've reached a new level of grammatical incompetence.
I went to a spa recently and the brochures were so filled with grammatical errors, formatting inconsistencies, etc. that I would have decided to not go there if it weren't for the fact that I had a gift certificate. It was so painful and I felt so bad for the owner, who actually did provide good services, that I offered to revise the brochures for free.
Here's another one that irks me: "Your call will be answered in the order it was received." Anyone else have a problem with this sentence?
bob: where did those dogs go??
jenny: they ran around the corner
how is they as a plural never correct???
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Haha... SINGULAR... I meant "they" as SINGULAR is never correct (in my opinion). Figures I'd screw that up in a thread about people screwing up what they write. What can I say? It's really late here and I'm exhausted. :oops:
Every time I contribute to this thread, I'm thinking, "those in glass houses . . .." :?
it doth drive the dunkman insaneth
AHHH!! I love it!
Whatever you are, be a good one --Lincoln
Back to those pesky apostrophes. How often have you seen our new President's name written as O'Bama? With all the debates about his birthplace, I never heard any discussion about Ireland. :roll:
★ 2009 - Sydney, Brisbane, Auckland, Christchurch ★
★ 2011 - EV Newcastle, Melbourne 1, Melbourne 2 ★
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
I admit that I'm kind of a snob when it comes to bad writing. It makes me cringe a little to see "your" when people mean "you're" or when they write "could of" when they mean "could have."
Since education to high school is free in the US, it just makes some people seem careless when they speak, spell, and write simple ideas poorly. :geek:
I must have been taught a different grammar lesson than you. If there are regional or generational variations, that could explain the problem. I learned that the singular pronoun "he" is used to refer to a person of unspecified gender. It is also used when the person is known to be male. "She" is only used when a person is known to be of female gender. "He" is the default word to be used for a hypothetical individual, and the undetermined and nonspecific someone from your quote. To you, it seems wrong to assign gender to this person. To me, it seems wrong to make him plural.
When I was a child, the huge majority of all books and printed materials used the word "he" almost constantly. In my teens, the phrase "he or she" was more acceptable. Then it became common for books to alternate between both "he" and "she." (For example, a child care book would use "he" for the subject of the first chapter, "she" for the second chapter.)
In the past couple of years, I've noticed "they" replacing "he or she" in pop culture. So far, I have not seen a professionally printed book use "they" as a singular... But it's probably just a matter of time.
its not about assigning wrong gender... its about the use of they as a third person plural pronoun in a situation where an indefinite article, in this instance a, is used to identify the membership of a group. the person in our example is non specific, we could be talking about any person who does not vote, not a particular person who has already been identified.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
As long as you don't dangle your participle, it's all good.
★ 2009 - Sydney, Brisbane, Auckland, Christchurch ★
★ 2011 - EV Newcastle, Melbourne 1, Melbourne 2 ★
Just a thought... anyone else?
★ 2009 - Sydney, Brisbane, Auckland, Christchurch ★
★ 2011 - EV Newcastle, Melbourne 1, Melbourne 2 ★
I agree. I need examples.
It should be "Just a thought ... anyone else?"
:ugeek:
LOL!! I was looking at it like a title or something :-) and I don't remember what a dangling participle is **goes to look it up**
Whatever you are, be a good one --Lincoln
Now you're making me remember why I hated telling people that I was an English teacher. It was like saying you had an STD or just got out of prison. People would say things like, "Well! I guess I'll have to watch my grammar around you!" And I'd say, "Yeah, because I'm going to give a test in 10 minutes!" Or they'd say, "I always hated English. It was my worst subject in school." Apparently I was supposed to get all Freudian and help them recover from the memories of their 7th grade English teacher.
So I usually tried to throw in a few ungrammatical bits of my own to make people feel comfortable, let them think like my hick relatives: "All that book learning and not a lick of sense."
In other words, this is the Pit, people! I don't give a shit how you post stuff here! I'm talking about how people write business letters, reports, brochures, magazine articles, books! THAT'S when all this stuff drives me crazy! :!: :ugeek:
Speaking entirely for myself, of course.
ok,i dont get it.i'm dyslexic and the rules make NO sense to me.like none.people have tried again and again to explain things,but they dont stick.
although i wouldnt expect any of you to sit through a glaze technology lesson and understand whats going on.
Find be yourself.
Don't follow the herd.
Don't repeat in spite of the encores.
Be yourself.
Otherwise you'll bore us.
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
Touche.
Dunkman is in the UK, where English is spoken- Not American English.
I was trying to be funny..........obviously didn't work!!!
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me