Barney Frank lays it down...

polaris_x

sweet adeline wrote:

how can you argue with someone who compares gassing jews to someone who wants to provide everyone with affordable health care? there is no chance of reasoned debate.

this is the crux of my point - where does she compare gassing jews to affordable health care? ... in the clip i saw - she mentions this is a nazi-style of health care which favours some people over others ... it's that initial leap that people automatically make ...

in any case - if he does answer the question - then props to him but in the orig. clip - he doesn't

sweet adeline

polaris_x wrote:

sweet adeline wrote:

how can you argue with someone who compares gassing jews to someone who wants to provide everyone with affordable health care? there is no chance of reasoned debate.

this is the crux of my point - where does she compare gassing jews to affordable health care? ... in the clip i saw - she mentions this is a nazi-style of health care which favours some people over others ... it's that initial leap that people automatically make ...

in any case - if he does answer the question - then props to him but in the orig. clip - he doesn't

if that was the her argument, it was a shitty argument. i'm sick of the dems caving to the right, you got elected to push your agenda, fucking do it.

Pepe Silvia

sweet adeline wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

sweet adeline wrote:

how can you argue with someone who compares gassing jews to someone who wants to provide everyone with affordable health care? there is no chance of reasoned debate.

this is the crux of my point - where does she compare gassing jews to affordable health care? ... in the clip i saw - she mentions this is a nazi-style of health care which favours some people over others ... it's that initial leap that people automatically make ...

in any case - if he does answer the question - then props to him but in the orig. clip - he doesn't

if that was the her argument, it was a shitty argument. i'm sick of the dems caving to the right, you got elected to push your agenda, fucking do it.

when i looked this up on youtube there was a ton from Fox, who knows how much it's pushed on radio.

my point is i'm not saying allow her an hour long interview but the point of a town hall meeting is for the constiuents to ask their elected representatives questions and receive answers. things like this just makes politics even more of a wrestling type nonsense. it's polarizing as well. now there's tons of conservatives with plenty of sound bites to play of him making fun of someone who he doesn't agree with.

i'm sure you've asked dumb questions throughout your life or done something stupid, who hasn't? but which do you learn more from; someone politely telling you where you went wrong or someone raising their voice and making fun of you? tell her how this plan isn't similar to a policy enacted by the Nazis, obviously saying it won't cut medicare wasn't enough.

i think it's bad form for an elected representative to act this way towards 1 of his constituents. answer them respectfully instead of giving your opponent a lot of sound bites, him responding respectfully wouldn't be pushed repeatedly as an example of government not listening or caring about what the public thinks. he also said something about he will only listen to those who have a vote (which i took more of him saying not special interests)...and then people ask 'how do these nuts even get these ideas!?' this is how!

again, if this was an exchange here you took out Nazi and made it something else some of you would've reported frank's post

sweet adeline

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

when i looked this up on youtube there was a ton from Fox, who knows how much it's pushed on radio.

my point is i'm not saying allow her an hour long interview but the point of a town hall meeting is for the constiuents to ask their elected representatives questions and receive answers. things like this just makes politics even more of a wrestling type nonsense. it's polarizing as well. now there's tons of conservatives with plenty of sound bites to play of him making fun of someone who he doesn't agree with.

i'm sure you've asked dumb questions throughout your life or done something stupid, who hasn't? but which do you learn more from; someone politely telling you where you went wrong or someone raising their voice and making fun of you? tell her how this plan isn't similar to a policy enacted by the Nazis, obviously saying it won't cut medicare wasn't enough.

i think it's bad form for an elected representative to act this way towards 1 of his constituents. answer them respectfully instead of giving your opponent a lot of sound bites, him responding respectfully wouldn't be pushed repeatedly as an example of government not listening or caring about what the public thinks. he also said something about he will only listen to those who have a vote (which i took more of him saying not special interests)...and then people ask 'how do these nuts even get these ideas!?' this is how!

i see your argument, but again, if you've seen clips from prior town hall meetings, you'll know what i'm talking about. elected officials (including obama) have been giving rational answers to these people for weeks now and its not getting through. it's like ron white says, "you can't fix stupid."

arthurdent

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

i think it's bad form for an elected representative to act this way towards 1 of his constituents. answer them respectfully instead of giving your opponent a lot of sound bites, him responding respectfully wouldn't be pushed repeatedly as an example of government not listening or caring about what the public thinks.

If the lady had gone into that even remotely deserving of respect, I might agree with you. But she wasn't looking for answers. She was looking to provoke a shouting match. And she got smacked down in exactly the manner that she deserved.

polaris_x

arthurdent wrote:

If the lady had gone into that even remotely deserving of respect, I might agree with you. But she wasn't looking for answers. She was looking to provoke a shouting match. And she got smacked down in exactly the manner that she deserved.

in the orig. clip - she keeps quiet while being made fun of ... i think if she was looking for a shouting match - she would have been yelling things in the mic ... but she just stood there ...

arthurdent

polaris_x wrote:

arthurdent wrote:

If the lady had gone into that even remotely deserving of respect, I might agree with you. But she wasn't looking for answers. She was looking to provoke a shouting match. And she got smacked down in exactly the manner that she deserved.

in the orig. clip - she keeps quiet while being made fun of ... i think if she was looking for a shouting match - she would have been yelling things in the mic ... but she just stood there ...

Of course she was going to keep quiet, she had just had her ass handed to her. She probably could've died of embarrassment right there. Loaded questions are like loaded weapons... they're both best handled by professionals.

JaneNY

I wonder why Godwin's law hasn't been mentioned at all - I know it originated within the context of the internet, but it might be appropriate here.

polaris_x

arthurdent wrote:

Of course she was going to keep quiet, she had just had her ass handed to her. She probably could've died of embarrassment right there. Loaded questions are like loaded weapons... they're both best handled by professionals.

having your ass handed to you is having someone prove you wrong ... i can type all day calling people stupid names ... it doesn't really mean anything in a discussion ... if she wanted a shouting match like you suggested - why wouldn't she just shout stuff back? ... maybe because she wanted an intelligent answer ...

norm

polaris_x wrote:

having your ass handed to you is having someone prove you wrong ... i can type all day calling people stupid names ... it doesn't really mean anything in a discussion ... if she wanted a shouting match like you suggested - why wouldn't she just shout stuff back? ... maybe because she wanted an intelligent answer ...

then she should have asked an intelligent question...hitler/nazi comments deserve stupid responses

blackredyellow

norm wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

having your ass handed to you is having someone prove you wrong ... i can type all day calling people stupid names ... it doesn't really mean anything in a discussion ... if she wanted a shouting match like you suggested - why wouldn't she just shout stuff back? ... maybe because she wanted an intelligent answer ...

then she should have asked an intelligent question...hitler/nazi comments deserve stupid responses

Yeah... and I'm not Jewish, but I would think that most Jewish people (like Frank) have a pretty short temper when basically being compared to Nazi's or Hitler.

polaris_x

haha ... i give up ... although i suppose it just means my point was proven ...

vduboise

From what I've seen in these town hall meetings, there are no real discussions.Its more the politicians trying to answer questions and "hecklers" not allowing them to answer by yelling and booing at them when they try. And people who genuinely want to hear what this proposed health bill has and how will it effect them, can not- because of people not allowing them to talk.

If you look at the CNN article (posted before), Frank tried to answer question but got booed and talked above. Any person, for 2 hours or more, would get frustrated with the situation. He is a person, like everyone else and he lost his cool.

If the woman had asked her question in a way that would get a real answer, then she would not have gotten the response that she did. If she had asked - "is the proposed bill going to cut medicare funding?" - then she would have gotten a better answer. Instead throwing out the nazi line- is just stirring up the shit.

norm

polaris_x wrote:

haha ... i give up ... although i suppose it just means my point was proven ...

and your point was why he didn't answer her question?

you expect a serious answer to this?

"Why are you supporting this Nazi policy?"

tell me...how would you answer that question?

Pepe Silvia

vduboise wrote:

From what I've seen in these town hall meetings, there are no real discussions.Its more the politicians trying to answer questions and "hecklers" not allowing them to answer by yelling and booing at them when they try. And people who genuinely want to hear what this proposed health bill has and how will it effect them, can not- because of people not allowing them to talk.

If you look at the CNN article (posted before), Frank tried to answer question but got booed and talked above. Any person, for 2 hours or more, would get frustrated with the situation. He is a person, like everyone else and he lost his cool.

If the woman had asked her question in a way that would get a real answer, then she would not have gotten the response that she did. If she had asked - "is the proposed bill going to cut medicare funding?" - then she would have gotten a better answer. Instead throwing out the nazi line- is just stirring up the shit.

i understand all that about the yelling and whatnot but she seemed to ask her question then remain silent, i didn't notice her yelling or shouting in the video. if he wants to go off because of that he should direct at someone acting like that. and his insults seemed more about what a stupid question he thought it was, not anger from being heckled or talked over.

but who knows, the video has edits in between his rants, who knows what happened in between, maybe they weren't even all directed at her

Pepe Silvia

norm wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

haha ... i give up ... although i suppose it just means my point was proven ...

and your point was why he didn't answer her question?

you expect a serious answer to this?

"Why are you supporting this Nazi policy?"

tell me...how would you answer that question?

to be fair her question was a lot more than that. it's still edited but i posted more of her question at the top of page 2

norm

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

norm wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

haha ... i give up ... although i suppose it just means my point was proven ...

and your point was why he didn't answer her question?

you expect a serious answer to this?

"Why are you supporting this Nazi policy?"

tell me...how would you answer that question?

to be fair her question was a lot more than that. i posted her full question at the top of page 2

well i'd love to hear it...but at the point she brings hitler into it she loses all credibility

and i am not necessarily disagreeing with the intent of the question...i think the question of why he is supporting it is valid, but if you want one to take you seriously, be serious...

polaris_x

norm wrote:

and your point was why he didn't answer her question?

you expect a serious answer to this?

"Why are you supporting this Nazi policy?"

tell me...how would you answer that question?

well ... if i knew what the nazi policy was towards health care - i would tell her the difference ... my entire point in this whole thread is just this: as soon as many of y'all here the word nazi - you're tuned out ... you are no longer listening - instead you dismiss her out of hand ... again, she could be a phd in health care policies around the world but no one would care simply because she use the word nazi ...

the crux of the issue to me is that in order for people to understand each other - we need to listen ... if you feel that she doesn't deserve to be listened to because of what she says or what she wears or anything - that is your prerogative but in a world where most of our differences are based on ignorance (see religion, human sexuality, etc.) - we could use more listening ...

Pepe Silvia

polaris_x wrote:

norm wrote:

and your point was why he didn't answer her question?

you expect a serious answer to this?

"Why are you supporting this Nazi policy?"

tell me...how would you answer that question?

well ... if i knew what the nazi policy was towards health care - i would tell her the difference ... my entire point in this whole thread is just this: as soon as many of y'all here the word nazi - you're tuned out ... you are no longer listening - instead you dismiss her out of hand ... again, she could be a phd in health care policies around the world but no one would care simply because she use the word nazi ...

the crux of the issue to me is that in order for people to understand each other - we need to listen ... if you feel that she doesn't deserve to be listened to because of what she says or what she wears or anything - that is your prerogative but in a world where most of our differences are based on ignorance (see religion, human sexuality, etc.) - we could use more listening ...

right on

sweet adeline

do the people who rail against UHC/public option plan to renounce medicare when they come of age?

that's a "socialist" program. where is the outrage from these town hallers that old people get public health care?

the fact that this has caused so much outrage makes me embarrassed to be part of this country sometimes.

town haller mentality: "i'm fine with us going into iraq and spending $10B/month killing arabs and looking for those WMD's, but $30B/year to help out our own citizens receive basic medical care? FUCK NO!!! let's riot!!!"

idiots.