Chemtrails: Conspiracy "Theory" No Longer

Pepe Silvia

NoK wrote:

weenie wrote:

Since we were working for a federal agency, maybe they figured that gave them the right. They did pay us a shitload of money to be there 12 hrs a day, 7 days a week afterall......... :?

Taking the theory a step further.. having you there for 12 hrs a day 7 days a week would be their way of monitoring the progression and whatever you were actually doing inside was a cover to keep you occupied.

i remember seeing something about a guy who developed cancer, he says from exposure working long hours/days at area 51 and had his court case dismissed because you can't sue the federal government and area 51 doesn't officially exist

weenie

When you work as an intermittent employee of the Federal Government, you are barely one step up from slave labor. Not only are you unable to sue the Federal Government, they weren't required to provide workers compensation insurance coverage for us. They also made up their own rules about overtime and holiday pay. Don't get me wrong, we were paid well, for our 84 (YES 84) hours per week, but the way they calculated overtime, especially around holidays, was mind boggling. If we worked 12 hours on a holiday, and often we did, they were not required to pay us overtime for the extra four hours. Don't ask me to explain it, I argued with them time and again and I STILL don't get it. :shock:

arthurdent

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

i remember seeing something about a guy who developed cancer, he says from exposure working long hours/days at area 51 and had his court case dismissed because you can't sue the federal government and area 51 doesn't officially exist

I hear working with Dr. Manhattan has the same effect :roll:

DriftingByTheStorm

arthurdent wrote:

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

i remember seeing something about a guy who developed cancer, he says from exposure working long hours/days at area 51 and had his court case dismissed because you can't sue the federal government and area 51 doesn't officially exist

I hear working with Dr. Manhattan has the same effect :roll:

You can roll your eyes at chemtrails all day long for what i care,
but you are rolling your eyes now at someone who developed cancer and may die thanks to their loyal service to their country? And in trying to right a wrong, they receive a slap in the face from the same?

THAT i take offense to.
My longtime girlfriend's father is dead.
He worked for the NTSB for almost his entire life.
He was a high level investigator for air crashes,
and he developed an extremely rare form of leukemia that the doctors suspect he got from exposure to specific haz-mat materials that came from working around a GOVERNMENT airplane crash.

The government totally fucked him, and his wife, along with his 3 children.
All she got was a lousy two-bit monthly check that amounts to squat.
No apology. No payout. No nothing. Just a small fraction of his salary.
A drop in the bucket.

His family received a life time of deprivation from their father.
And my girlfriend is permanently traumatized from changing her own dad's bed pan, wiping his ass, and watching him die in inglorious fashion for simply doing his job for his country.

If you think the US government doesn't shrug off responsibility for their own fuck ups more often than not, you are seriously avoiding the truth.

I don't even understand what the fuck you're rolling your eyes at.
But without meaning to you have done a good job of getting me boiled.

nice job.

TriumphantAngel

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

arthurdent wrote:

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

i remember seeing something about a guy who developed cancer, he says from exposure working long hours/days at area 51 and had his court case dismissed because you can't sue the federal government and area 51 doesn't officially exist

I hear working with Dr. Manhattan has the same effect :roll:

You can roll your eyes at chemtrails all day long for what i care,
but you are rolling your eyes now at someone who developed cancer and may die thanks to their loyal service to their country? And in trying to right a wrong, they receive a slap in the face from the same?

THAT i take offense to.
My longtime girlfriend's father is dead.
He worked for the NTSB for almost his entire life.
He was a high level investigator for air crashes,
and he developed an extremely rare form of leukemia that the doctors suspect he got from exposure to specific haz-mat materials that came from working around a GOVERNMENT airplane crash.

The government totally fucked him, and his wife, along with his 3 children.
All she got was a lousy two-bit monthly check that amounts to squat.
No apology. No payout. No nothing. Just a small fraction of his salary.
A drop in the bucket.

His family received a life time of deprivation from their father.
And my girlfriend is permanently traumatized from changing her own dad's bed pan, wiping his ass, and watching him die in inglorious fashion for simply doing his job for his country.

If you think the US government doesn't shrug off responsibility for their own fuck ups more often than not, you are seriously avoiding the truth.

I don't even understand what the fuck you're rolling your eyes at.
But without meaning to you have done a good job of getting me boiled.

nice job.

That's awful drifting. I'm sorry you and your girl, and her family are going through that.

arthurdent

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

arthurdent wrote:

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

i remember seeing something about a guy who developed cancer, he says from exposure working long hours/days at area 51 and had his court case dismissed because you can't sue the federal government and area 51 doesn't officially exist

I hear working with Dr. Manhattan has the same effect :roll:

You can roll your eyes at chemtrails all day long for what i care,
but you are rolling your eyes now at someone who developed cancer and may die thanks to their loyal service to their country? And in trying to right a wrong, they receive a slap in the face from the same?

THAT i take offense to.
My longtime girlfriend's father is dead.
He worked for the NTSB for almost his entire life.
He was a high level investigator for air crashes,
and he developed an extremely rare form of leukemia that the doctors suspect he got from exposure to specific haz-mat materials that came from working around a GOVERNMENT airplane crash.

The government totally fucked him, and his wife, along with his 3 children.
All she got was a lousy two-bit monthly check that amounts to squat.
No apology. No payout. No nothing. Just a small fraction of his salary.
A drop in the bucket.

His family received a life time of deprivation from their father.
And my girlfriend is permanently traumatized from changing her own dad's bed pan, wiping his ass, and watching him die in inglorious fashion for simply doing his job for his country.

If you think the US government doesn't shrug off responsibility for their own fuck ups more often than not, you are seriously avoiding the truth.

I don't even understand what the fuck you're rolling your eyes at.
But without meaning to you have done a good job of getting me boiled.

nice job.

wow! the sympathy card. well played. Now, if I continue to beat you upside the head with my clue-by-four I'll just come across as a bigger ass than the one I really am. Having dealt with my own mother's disability for the past 10 years, I can certainly sympathize with what your girlfriend has gone through. But let's not cloud the issue of your mythical "chemtrails" with that, shall we. We're talking apples and oranges here.

arthurdent

weenie wrote:

One day there was a criss-cross pattern, like a checkerboard, of what I called CON trails. Wondering why they were in a criss-cross pattern, I said something out loud. I was told that what I was seeing were CHEM trails and no one really knew what the trails contained, but everyone had their own theory.

This criss-cross patterning across the sky continued to be created every day for about a week then abruptly stopped. A few weeks later, they would appear again. This went on for about 4 months. Since then, I have met other people in Austin who recall the incident - mainly because the criss-cross pattern was so unusual. There were no air shows in the area etc. at the time.

Whoever it was, and whatever they were doing, was deliberate. Whether it was the dispersal of something to affect weather, something to make us all calm, something to make us all sick, I don't know. But clearly it was deliberate and many people witnessed it over a 3 - 4 month period of time.

or it could have been nothing more than pesticides to control mosquitos... which tend to multiply in standing water. Like after a HURRICANE, for example. You know, I've heard that malaria can be a pretty nasty little bug. :roll:

weenie

arthurdent wrote:

weenie wrote:

One day there was a criss-cross pattern, like a checkerboard, of what I called CON trails. Wondering why they were in a criss-cross pattern, I said something out loud. I was told that what I was seeing were CHEM trails and no one really knew what the trails contained, but everyone had their own theory.

This criss-cross patterning across the sky continued to be created every day for about a week then abruptly stopped. A few weeks later, they would appear again. This went on for about 4 months. Since then, I have met other people in Austin who recall the incident - mainly because the criss-cross pattern was so unusual. There were no air shows in the area etc. at the time.

Whoever it was, and whatever they were doing, was deliberate. Whether it was the dispersal of something to affect weather, something to make us all calm, something to make us all sick, I don't know. But clearly it was deliberate and many people witnessed it over a 3 - 4 month period of time.

or it could have been nothing more than pesticides to control mosquitos... which tend to multiply in standing water. Like after a HURRICANE, for example. You know, I've heard that malaria can be a pretty nasty little bug. :roll:

Could be. I'd be surprised to see mosquitos hatching in 30 - 40 degree weather though. :roll:

NoK

weenie wrote:

arthurdent wrote:

weenie wrote:

One day there was a criss-cross pattern, like a checkerboard, of what I called CON trails. Wondering why they were in a criss-cross pattern, I said something out loud. I was told that what I was seeing were CHEM trails and no one really knew what the trails contained, but everyone had their own theory.

This criss-cross patterning across the sky continued to be created every day for about a week then abruptly stopped. A few weeks later, they would appear again. This went on for about 4 months. Since then, I have met other people in Austin who recall the incident - mainly because the criss-cross pattern was so unusual. There were no air shows in the area etc. at the time.

Whoever it was, and whatever they were doing, was deliberate. Whether it was the dispersal of something to affect weather, something to make us all calm, something to make us all sick, I don't know. But clearly it was deliberate and many people witnessed it over a 3 - 4 month period of time.

or it could have been nothing more than pesticides to control mosquitos... which tend to multiply in standing water. Like after a HURRICANE, for example. You know, I've heard that malaria can be a pretty nasty little bug. :roll:

Could be. I'd be surprised to see mosquitos hatching in 30 - 40 degree weather though. :roll:

What is funny is that he/she thinks it is a normal thing to spray a city full of people with pesticides to control mosquitos. Like pesticides haven't been shown to cause say cancer, immunodeficiency disorders and ... so on and so forth..

weenie

NoK wrote:

weenie wrote:

arthurdent wrote:

or it could have been nothing more than pesticides to control mosquitos... which tend to multiply in standing water. Like after a HURRICANE, for example. You know, I've heard that malaria can be a pretty nasty little bug. :roll:

Could be. I'd be surprised to see mosquitos hatching in 30 - 40 degree weather though. :roll:

What is funny is that he/she thinks it is a normal thing to spray a city full of people with pesticides to control mosquitos. Like pesticides haven't been shown to cause say cancer, immunodeficiency disorders and ... so on and so forth..

Tru Dat!

darthvedder81

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

This is old news in conspiracy circles, but looking at some videos i haven't seen and thought i'd pass it on.

Local News Station Confirms Barium Salts In Chemtrails
High level barium exposure can lead to depletion of immune function.
And boy wouldn't that go hand in hand with a pandemic illness and mass casualties (ie. population reduction) ?

Here is a link to a PDF Summary of a Council on Foreign Relations Symposium on Global Geo-engineering which proves that the CFR is actively involved in discussing chemtrail like phenomena, as witnessed in the FIRST line of the summary:
"There are a variety of strategies, such as injecting light-reflecting particles into the stratosphere...

Hmm.
Curious.
The CFR is thinking about injecting the atmosphere with tiny particles?
Hmm.

Actual Photographs of a Chemtrail Plane's Equipment - Inside & Out ... crazy shit.

German Expose on German Military Chemtrails

This one is actually my favorite, because it shows in one single camera shot the difference between what anyone who remembers as pre-millenium "contrails" and the new "chemtrails". Remember when trails behind planes actually used to DISAPPEAR in short order? Nope. Not anymore. Why is that?
Chemtrails vs. contrails

So,
i guess the question i would pose, is
does this disturb anyone here?

Unfortunately, i'm pretty sure i can guess the average response.
"Dude, the government is just trying to save you from death by manipulating the weather so that you can live your life in bliss. They just don't want to tell you, because you would freak out. Don't you know about the global warmings?"

Yeah, thats right.
Everything is cool, as long as it is for the environment.
Right?

You leftys and your psychotic, baseless conspiracy theories provide me with endless entertainment. Don't stop calling into "Coast to Coast AM" and for the love of God (or your alternative deity of choice) keep watching the skies!!

DriftingByTheStorm

darthvedder81 wrote:

You leftys and your psychotic, baseless conspiracy theories provide me with endless entertainment. Don't stop calling into "Coast to Coast AM" and for the love of God (or your alternative deity of choice) keep watching the skies!!

Most of the nitwit, hopelessly lost in establishment, obama cock sucking, "please please rape me more, take more of my money, give me less, 'socialize' me, and make me a slave under the guise of loving me and having compassion and 'hope' and change your underpants" dilf-nus motherfuckers on this board are "leftys".

I just LOVE being lumped in with "that" crowd.
:roll: :roll:

ledvedderman

darthvedder81 wrote:

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

This is old news in conspiracy circles, but looking at some videos i haven't seen and thought i'd pass it on.

Local News Station Confirms Barium Salts In Chemtrails
High level barium exposure can lead to depletion of immune function.
And boy wouldn't that go hand in hand with a pandemic illness and mass casualties (ie. population reduction) ?

Here is a link to a PDF Summary of a Council on Foreign Relations Symposium on Global Geo-engineering which proves that the CFR is actively involved in discussing chemtrail like phenomena, as witnessed in the FIRST line of the summary:
"There are a variety of strategies, such as injecting light-reflecting particles into the stratosphere...

Hmm.
Curious.
The CFR is thinking about injecting the atmosphere with tiny particles?
Hmm.

Actual Photographs of a Chemtrail Plane's Equipment - Inside & Out ... crazy shit.

German Expose on German Military Chemtrails

This one is actually my favorite, because it shows in one single camera shot the difference between what anyone who remembers as pre-millenium "contrails" and the new "chemtrails". Remember when trails behind planes actually used to DISAPPEAR in short order? Nope. Not anymore. Why is that?
Chemtrails vs. contrails

So,
i guess the question i would pose, is
does this disturb anyone here?

Unfortunately, i'm pretty sure i can guess the average response.
"Dude, the government is just trying to save you from death by manipulating the weather so that you can live your life in bliss. They just don't want to tell you, because you would freak out. Don't you know about the global warmings?"

Yeah, thats right.
Everything is cool, as long as it is for the environment.
Right?

You leftys and your psychotic, baseless conspiracy theories provide me with endless entertainment. Don't stop calling into "Coast to Coast AM" and for the love of God (or your alternative deity of choice) keep watching the skies!!

Are you shitting me? Us lefties have nothing to do with this horse shit

DriftingByTheStorm

ledvedderman wrote:

darthvedder81 wrote:

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

This is old news in conspiracy circles, but looking at some videos i haven't seen and thought i'd pass it on.

Local News Station Confirms Barium Salts In Chemtrails
High level barium exposure can lead to depletion of immune function.
And boy wouldn't that go hand in hand with a pandemic illness and mass casualties (ie. population reduction) ?

Here is a link to a PDF Summary of a Council on Foreign Relations Symposium on Global Geo-engineering which proves that the CFR is actively involved in discussing chemtrail like phenomena, as witnessed in the FIRST line of the summary:
"There are a variety of strategies, such as injecting light-reflecting particles into the stratosphere...

Hmm.
Curious.
The CFR is thinking about injecting the atmosphere with tiny particles?
Hmm.

Actual Photographs of a Chemtrail Plane's Equipment - Inside & Out ... crazy shit.

German Expose on German Military Chemtrails

This one is actually my favorite, because it shows in one single camera shot the difference between what anyone who remembers as pre-millenium "contrails" and the new "chemtrails". Remember when trails behind planes actually used to DISAPPEAR in short order? Nope. Not anymore. Why is that?
Chemtrails vs. contrails

So,
i guess the question i would pose, is
does this disturb anyone here?

Unfortunately, i'm pretty sure i can guess the average response.
"Dude, the government is just trying to save you from death by manipulating the weather so that you can live your life in bliss. They just don't want to tell you, because you would freak out. Don't you know about the global warmings?"

Yeah, thats right.
Everything is cool, as long as it is for the environment.
Right?

You leftys and your psychotic, baseless conspiracy theories provide me with endless entertainment. Don't stop calling into "Coast to Coast AM" and for the love of God (or your alternative deity of choice) keep watching the skies!!

Are you shitting me? Us lefties have nothing to do with this horse shit

Uh oh.
Fight fight fight fight!

Tenzing N.

As a proffessional pilot I consider it my obligation to address these types of issues whenever I can. If you'll remember I solved some JFK jr. questions for you all a year or so back.

I don't know where to begin on this one so I invite you to ask any questions you would like.

Let me start by stating this however:

Although I can NOT speak on past or present "experiments" I can, with 100% certainty, assure you there are no such thing as "chemtrails".

The problem with this type of theory is that it deals with an area of technology and science that few people have much expertise in (aviation).

So please, let me help you and you can move on to some other theory. I promise I will not be demeaning- I understand this is complex and has plenty of room for conspiracy. Ask away...

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

Tenzing N. wrote:

As a proffessional pilot I consider it my obligation to address these types of issues whenever I can. If you'll remember I solved some JFK jr. questions for you all a year or so back.

I don't know where to begin on this one so I invite you to ask any questions you would like.

Let me start by stating this however:

Although I can NOT speak on past or present "experiments" I can, with 100% certainty, assure you there are no such thing as "chemtrails".

The problem with this type of theory is that it deals with an area of technology and science that few people have much expertise in (aviation).

So please, let me help you and you can move on to some other theory. I promise I will not be demeaning- I understand this is complex and has plenty of room for conspiracy. Ask away...

he's one of them! get him!

weenie

Tenzing N. wrote:

As a proffessional pilot I consider it my obligation to address these types of issues whenever I can. If you'll remember I solved some JFK jr. questions for you all a year or so back.

I don't know where to begin on this one so I invite you to ask any questions you would like.

Let me start by stating this however:

Although I can NOT speak on past or present "experiments" I can, with 100% certainty, assure you there are no such thing as "chemtrails".

The problem with this type of theory is that it deals with an area of technology and science that few people have much expertise in (aviation).

So please, let me help you and you can move on to some other theory. I promise I will not be demeaning- I understand this is complex and has plenty of room for conspiracy. Ask away...

Okay, I'll bite.....
So what's your knowledge of the checkerboard patterns that appear; what's causing them and why are planes flying in cris-crossing patterns?

Tenzing N.

This is a long explaination so bear with me...

First, thank you for your question. This actually gives me the chance to answer two phenomena in one answer. Along with the "criss-crossing" pattern there seems to be another common peice of "evidence" and that is the presence of parrallel lines. I'll explain the parrallel lines and then relate the criss-cross pattern to that explaination.

First, let me remind you that the atmoshere is not at all homogenous, which is to say that what you feel at ground level is not at all what is happening at 1,000 feet and certainly not what is happening at 40,000 feet. That being said, the wind speed at the altitude most commercial aircraft operate (between 20,000 feet and 40,000 feet) is typically moving between 30 mph and 180 mph. This wind generally flows form west to east over North America. Unless there are clouds at these levels this wind is obviously invisible. Even if there are clouds at these levels the motion is difficult to detect due to its distance form the observer (nearly 8 miles away vertically). Additionally the air at these levels tends to be very stable (especially laterally) and contrails that are produced stay together well. So now you can look up in the sky and realize you are seeing a constantly moving body of air. All aircraft operate in this moving air.
Typically aircraft try thier best to fly directly form departure to destination directly, saving time and gas. With today's technology we are able to do this but usually Air Traffic Control (ATC) requires us to fly on what are called "Jet Routes". These Jet Routes are usually hundreds of miles long and are defined by drawing a line between points such as VORs or intersections. We use navigation equipment to fly very precisely along these routes to avoid hitting other aircraft. You can imagine these as highways in the sky. They are published on maps which we use. As pilots we are tasked with keeping on the route but ATC is required to keep a certain amount of space between the aircraft travelling along the same routes. This space is measured in intervals of time. For instance aircraft B can be no closer than 3 minutes behind aircraft A. ATC maintains these gaps by telling us to adjust our speed. On busy routes there may be several aircraft on this route, each equally spaced.
Now assume all of these aircraft are making a contrail and assume the contrails are in an airmass that permits them to last quite a while (persistant). If there was no wind at that altitude the contrails would all just pile up on top of each other and the observer below would only see "one" apperent contrail, regardless of how many aircraft traversed that route. I will tell you, however, that I have never seen a calm wind at high altitude.
One could also suppose that if the aircraft were flying directly into the wind then the contrails would be blown directly behind the aircraft and again give the appearance of only one contrail. I will also say that almost always the wind blows at an angle to the path that the plane is flying. This is called a crosswind. As the aircraft flies it lays down the contrail and that contrail is pushed to the side by the wind, moving it further and further away as time goes by. The next aircraft comes along the same route and lays down its own contrail which is also moved away to the side by the wind. So on and so on for each subsequent aircraft as they travel down the route. So you can imagine that after say 5 aircraft travel that route in a crosswind there would be 5 distinct contrails, all in a row, as viewed from below.
If you would like to simulate this simply take a blank sheet of paper. With your left hand slowly move the paper from left to right across a table. Holding a pen or pencil with your right hand, make a vertical line, not allowing your right hand to move left or right at all. If you do this 5 times you will have 5 parrallel lines. It's hard to do, however.
So that explains the parrallel lines. If you would like to make a criss-cross pattern simply have a perpendicular route that intersects that previous route. (There are several East-west routes that cross North-South routes all over the country.) Apply the same explaination and you would see a criss-cross pattern. Or if you want a simple pattern just have a couple perpendicular routes that overly that initial route and you would have a simple criss-cross.
The main take-away here is that there are many perfectly normal things that are taking place in the sky that most people aren't aware of.

Next question?

weenie

Great response. Instead of taking a condescending approach, you took the time to provide experiential evidence in answer to my question. I appreciate that and wish more individuals on this board saw fit to respond in kind. Instead, they choose to make themselves appear "knowledgeable" while providing no support for their position. So, THANK YOU!

Next question - What causes some "contrails/chemtrails" to retain their form and remain visible for such long periods of time as opposed to other "contrails/chemtrails"?

Tenzing N.

Again- great question. This is an important one because it seems to be the basis for the entire chemtrail theory.

Let me give it a shot...

First, I'd like you to imagine contrails as a mathematic equation. In order for contrails to appear you need a perfectly balanced equation. Let's look at some of the variables.

You need moisture. I'm sure you're aware that the atmosphere all around you is full of moisture. You only notice it when it's humid out or when you see a cloud. In order for this moisture to become visible you need to cool the air mass its in to its dewpoint.

Second you need something for the moisture in the air to cling to. Without some sort of particle present the water molecules can't condense on anything no matter how cool the air gets. These are condensation nuclei.

Third you need the correct temperature. If it's too warm the airmass will never cool to the dew point and the moisture will never condense and become visible.

If any of these variables are absent or out of proportion the moisture will not become visible.

No lets look at what you might call a "normal" contrail. These are the types that form and then rapidly dissipate behind the aircraft. The aircraft is flying around in super cool air so that variable is already present. As a byproduct of combustion the aircraft engines are producing several things. Two of those things are CO2 and water vapor. So now you have the moisture present as well. The third thing these engines produce are little yucky bits of fine particulates as the result of incomplete combustion. (They are the leftovers of the combustion process.) So now you have something for the water molecules to condense upon, the condensation nuclei. Now you have all the necessary ingredients... but only for a few seconds. Remember, these "equations" are very well balanced and if you lose one thing it goes awry and the contrails disappear.

The problem with these types of contrails is that they exist in very dry air. The air at altitude is very cold and can not hold very much moisture. As soon as the contrails form they are immediately turned to ice crystals and these crystals quickly sublimate (turn directly to vapor again). There isn’t enough water vapor present to replace the sublimating ice crystals and the contrail goes away.

Now- if you could somehow replace that moisture you would rebalance the equation and the contrail would persist indefinitely.

If you’ll notice most chemtrail advocates have made the correlation between an increase in chemtrail activity and the subsequent bad weather that follows. This relationship does exist but the chemtrail people have it backwards. The persistent contrails are caused by the weather system, not the other way around. These weather systems, called lows, are represented by the big L on the weather maps. They move around the world lifting large amounts of air and moisture high up into the atmosphere. These systems cause clouds, rain and storms. Ahead of these systems the air at the altitude commercial aircraft operate is filled with moisture. It’s just not visible (yet). So now you have moisture present, cold air present but no particles for this moisture to cling to and condense upon so it stays invisible. If you fly an aircraft through this area you introduce large amounts of particulate for the moisture to condense on and you get contrails. The difference now is that when the ice crystals sublimate there is plenty of moisture present to replace it. In fact, the act of sublimation cools the particle down and new water molecules are attracted, thus perpetuating the process. (It goes on and on until something comes along to disrupt the equation.)

I Hope that all makes sense. The main thing I want you to remember is this: If you look up and see a short contrail it means the air at that altitude is too dry and the contrail falls apart. If you see a long contrail the air is just right to keep the contrail going. In fact, the short contrails shouldn’t be considered contrails at all.

Next question?