Cash for Clunkers - Bad for the environment?

cincybearcat

inmytree wrote:

I hear you and understand the point...I guess for me, a piece of scrap is not burning fuel at rate of 15 miles per gallon...

I wonder how many more miles the new owners will drive now that they have a new, dependable, more fuel efficient car.

inmytree

cincybearcat wrote:

inmytree wrote:

I hear you and understand the point...I guess for me, a piece of scrap is not burning fuel at rate of 15 miles per gallon...

I wonder how many more miles the new owners will drive now that they have a new, dependable, more fuel efficient car.

that, my friend, is a good question...

inmytree

know1 wrote:

inmytree wrote:

I hear you and understand the point...I guess for me, a piece of scrap is not burning fuel at rate of 15 miles per gallon...

Even that's not completely black and white because it might be a 3rd car that's barely getting any use but is still drivable and not rotting somewhere and now they're getting $4500 from the government so they scrap it.

I just feel like this side of the cash for clunkers program has been kept very quiet by this administration.

now you're just tossing in "what-if" variables...

I'll play...what if the car was getting 10 miles a gallon and burning a quart a oil every 1000 miles and it was their daily driver...I guess it would be better to scrap it...

soulsinging

slightofjeff wrote:

know1 wrote:

Does anyone else realize that a condition of trading in your "clunker" for $4500 is that the Dealership HAS to scrap your trade in? They literally pour silicone into the engine and sell it to a junkyard.

Now I'm not sure if that's environmentally irresponsible, or just irresponsible in general, but there are a lot of vehicles that are still very nice cars or trucks that are being scrapped here.

And I do realize that one of the goals is to get more fuel efficient cars on the roads, but it just doesn't feel right to me to throw away a car that is still good.

(BTW, I'm not trading in my "clunker" it's been paid for for years and has 150K miles on it. I take great care of it and it feels like only a 2 year old car. The hit I would take in depreciation blows away the benefit of $4500).

I guess it doesn't really matter anymore, since the program is out of money and has been discontinued. Good planning there. But I guess things will go more smoothly when the government takes over our health care. I'm sure it will be fully funded and well thought-out. Or not.

They upped its funding actually. I don't get why people bitch about this program. In a huge 700 billion dollar stimulus package, ONE program costing 1/700th of the package has done more for our economy than anything else could possibly have accomplished... it actually worked and helped out the citizens of this country... and people are pissed becos congress didn't anticipate that it would be nearly as successful and popular as it was. Isn't congress doing something we like and appreciate for once a good thing? Would you be happier if that money went to more cow fart studies? Or are you just bitter that for once they did something that worked and it deprives you of the chance to whine about it?

decides2dream

soulsinging wrote:

slightofjeff wrote:

know1 wrote:

Does anyone else realize that a condition of trading in your "clunker" for $4500 is that the Dealership HAS to scrap your trade in? They literally pour silicone into the engine and sell it to a junkyard.

Now I'm not sure if that's environmentally irresponsible, or just irresponsible in general, but there are a lot of vehicles that are still very nice cars or trucks that are being scrapped here.

And I do realize that one of the goals is to get more fuel efficient cars on the roads, but it just doesn't feel right to me to throw away a car that is still good.

(BTW, I'm not trading in my "clunker" it's been paid for for years and has 150K miles on it. I take great care of it and it feels like only a 2 year old car. The hit I would take in depreciation blows away the benefit of $4500).

I guess it doesn't really matter anymore, since the program is out of money and has been discontinued. Good planning there. But I guess things will go more smoothly when the government takes over our health care. I'm sure it will be fully funded and well thought-out. Or not.

They upped its funding actually. I don't get why people bitch about this program. In a huge 700 billion dollar stimulus package, ONE program costing 1/700th of the package has done more for our economy than anything else could possibly have accomplished... it actually worked and helped out the citizens of this country... and people are pissed becos congress didn't anticipate that it would be nearly as successful and popular as it was. Isn't congress doing something we like and appreciate for once a good thing? Would you be happier if that money went to more cow fart studies? Or are you just bitter that for once they did something that worked and it deprives you of the chance to whine about it?

alrighty, that just made me laugh....

norm

all this is is a glorified stimulus program

as for the clunkers being traded in harming the environment...these cars will eventually go to the dump at some point...this program accelerates that

decides2dream

norm wrote:

all this is is a glorified stimulus program

as for the clunkers being traded in harming the environment...these cars will eventually go to the dump at some point...this program accelerates that

the real question is - where is the stimulus package that is going to put $4,500 cash in my hands! a trip to australia is in order!

yoke

The problem I have with this program is that its almost like forced sales. Sure its great right now for dealerships and car companies but what about the future sales? Lets look 6-12 months into the future, will anyone run out and buy a new car? People may get to the point and just wait for the government to stimulate us again.

Another thought I had was with some of the people is maybe the reason they didn't get a new car is because they can't afford the payment and higher insurance rates. Was it smart for Dealerships/GOV Motors to extend credit to people who perhaps will default on these loans just to sell cars. Hopefully this Car Bubble wont pop.

OffHeGoes29

Recycling is a big industry. I knew a guy who owned a scrap metal buisness in Phx, and made a killing (not mob related). The government is getting money for the scrap metal or selling cars whole for parts. Most of your newly manufactured metal is from recycled scrap. Granted the quality isn't as good as raw metals mined from the earth, it slows the growth of mining and thus having a lesser impact on the enviroment.

ccucf1996

Hey In my tree, is that your car in the pic? Looks like a gas guzzler.

Cosmo

Let me add some purely un-scienticic, antecdotal data into this mix...
I work in an industrial/commercial zone in Long Beach, CA.... over by the airport. There is one of those main boulevard of car dealerships along one of the main streets. I go along the perimeter road between the airport and the dealership's back lots to get to my crappy cubicle.
I saw hundreds of older cars and trucks in the back lots of the Ford, Volkswagen/Subaru and Toyota dealers with 'CFC' painted on the side or scribbled on the windshields. Those cars are NOT FOR RESALE and will be place in salvage yards. There, they will be disassembled for parts... like windshields, doors, seats, fenders, taillights, etc... for people who still have these types of vehicles... or simply placed in the crusher or shredder to be placed in bins or stacked in piles on outgoing cargo ships to China... where they will come back in the form of anything you see on a Wal-Mart shelf... including the shelf itself.
...
The bottom line... I am GLAD to see that 1986 Ford Areostar van with the huge dent, bald tires and cracked windshield in the back lot of the Subaru dealer and not trying to merge ionto the road I am on. It is purely a guess on my part, but i imagine a car that looks that crappy onthe outside, probably doesn't have the best braking system in place. I can't speak for the rest of you... but, I am glad that some of those non-roadworthy wrecks are going off of the road for good.

cincybearcat

Cosmo wrote:

...
The bottom line... I am GLAD to see that 1986 Ford Areostar van with the huge dent, bald tires and cracked windshield in the back lot of the Subaru dealer and not trying to merge ionto the road I am on. It is purely a guess on my part, but i imagine a car that looks that crappy onthe outside, probably doesn't have the best braking system in place. I can't speak for the rest of you... but, I am glad that some of those non-roadworthy wrecks are going off of the road for good.

Enough to help pay for it's replacement?

Cosmo

cincybearcat wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

...
The bottom line... I am GLAD to see that 1986 Ford Areostar van with the huge dent, bald tires and cracked windshield in the back lot of the Subaru dealer and not trying to merge ionto the road I am on. It is purely a guess on my part, but i imagine a car that looks that crappy onthe outside, probably doesn't have the best braking system in place. I can't speak for the rest of you... but, I am glad that some of those non-roadworthy wrecks are going off of the road for good.

Enough to help pay for it's replacement?

...
Value of the 1986 Ford Aerostar Van is what... 150... 200 bucks? So, the guy traded it in for a 2008 Subaru SR-Whatever... and the dealer takes 4,300 bucks off the negotiated sales price.
4,300 bucks divided by what... a couple hundred million taxpayers?
Sure... I'm willing to kick in my fair share.

cincybearcat

Cosmo wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

...
The bottom line... I am GLAD to see that 1986 Ford Areostar van with the huge dent, bald tires and cracked windshield in the back lot of the Subaru dealer and not trying to merge ionto the road I am on. It is purely a guess on my part, but i imagine a car that looks that crappy onthe outside, probably doesn't have the best braking system in place. I can't speak for the rest of you... but, I am glad that some of those non-roadworthy wrecks are going off of the road for good.

Enough to help pay for it's replacement?

...
Value of the 1986 Ford Aerostar Van is what... 150... 200 bucks? So, the guy traded it in for a 2008 Subaru SR-Whatever... and the dealer takes 4,300 bucks off the negotiated sales price.
4,300 bucks divided by what... a couple hundred million taxpayers?
Sure... I'm willing to kick in my fair share.

Yep, cause it was only 1 car. :roll:

I wish I could just print more $...this is getting old. Being responsible gets you hosed.

mca47

The fact is, it's been hugely successful on many levels.

I was never a fan of the bail-out of the auto industry, and this seem much more practical to me than just writing check to GM.
While the initial energy hit it takes to produce more cars and to destroy others, I think it's going to pay off in the long run...economically and environmentally.

cincybearcat

mca47 wrote:

The fact is, it's been hugely successful on many levels.

I was never a fan of the bail-out of the auto industry, and this seem much more practical to me than just writing check to GM.
While the initial energy hit it takes to produce more cars and to destroy others, I think it's going to pay off in the long run...economically and environmentally.

So you're saying giving away $ was successful? Thank god it worked this time. It's all a bit disheatening really.

Cosmo

cincybearcat wrote:

mca47 wrote:

The fact is, it's been hugely successful on many levels.

I was never a fan of the bail-out of the auto industry, and this seem much more practical to me than just writing check to GM.
While the initial energy hit it takes to produce more cars and to destroy others, I think it's going to pay off in the long run...economically and environmentally.

So you're saying giving away $ was successful? Thank god it worked this time. It's all a bit disheatening really.

...
What is wrong with everyone pitching in to help a FELLOW AMERICAN? The guy trading in the piece of crap? An American. Probably a taxpayer. If we can help him get out of that piece of crap mini-van... and help out and American Taxpayer who negotiated the deal for an American tax payer who own a car dealership to sell cars made by working American taxpayers... then, yeah... I have NO problem at all... helping out my fellow American.
It's not like the money we shoveled onto that tire fire in Iraq you supported from 2002 to about 2007, right? now, there are tax dollars that are never coming back.

cincybearcat

Cosmo wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

mca47 wrote:

The fact is, it's been hugely successful on many levels.

I was never a fan of the bail-out of the auto industry, and this seem much more practical to me than just writing check to GM.
While the initial energy hit it takes to produce more cars and to destroy others, I think it's going to pay off in the long run...economically and environmentally.

So you're saying giving away $ was successful? Thank god it worked this time. It's all a bit disheatening really.

...
What is wrong with everyone pitching in to help a FELLOW AMERICAN? The guy trading in the piece of crap? An American. Probably a taxpayer. If we can help him get out of that piece of crap mini-van... and help out and American Taxpayer who negotiated the deal for an American tax payer who own a car dealership to sell cars made by working American taxpayers... then, yeah... I have NO problem at all... helping out my fellow American.
It's not like the money we shoveled onto that tire fire in Iraq you supported from 2002 to about 2007, right? now, there are tax dollars that are never coming back.

It is far better than the $ spent in Iraq...far better than the banking bailout for poor lenders and idiot consumers that bit off more than they could chew...

All in all I see some value in it, I think it's kinda crap how random it, screwing people over that bought cars already. It's just on top of everything else, ya know? And the fact that it is easy to see that it would be a successful program (if success is defined by using up all the $)...it's not like it was rocket science giving away $. What the long-term effect I wonder? Will this help American car companies reposition themselves in the worl marketplace or is it another handout to a dying breed?

cincybearcat

Cosmo wrote:

...
What is wrong with everyone pitching in to help a FELLOW AMERICAN? The guy trading in the piece of crap? An American. Probably a taxpayer. If we can help him get out of that piece of crap mini-van... and help out and American Taxpayer who negotiated the deal for an American tax payer who own a car dealership to sell cars made by working American taxpayers... then, yeah... I have NO problem at all... helping out my fellow American.
It's not like the money we shoveled onto that tire fire in Iraq you supported from 2002 to about 2007, right? now, there are tax dollars that are never coming back.

What make of cars was this good on? Just the American car companies (with all the parts from mexcio)? Or also the Japanese car companies with the American parts and assembly?

OffHeGoes29

Cosmo wrote:

It's not like the money we shoveled onto that tire fire in Iraq you supported from 2002 to about 2007, right? now, there are tax dollars that are never coming back.

That tax money pays your company, who pays you....