Cash for Clunkers - Bad for the environment?
know1
Posts: 6,794
Does anyone else realize that a condition of trading in your "clunker" for $4500 is that the Dealership HAS to scrap your trade in? They literally pour silicone into the engine and sell it to a junkyard.
Now I'm not sure if that's environmentally irresponsible, or just irresponsible in general, but there are a lot of vehicles that are still very nice cars or trucks that are being scrapped here.
And I do realize that one of the goals is to get more fuel efficient cars on the roads, but it just doesn't feel right to me to throw away a car that is still good.
(BTW, I'm not trading in my "clunker" it's been paid for for years and has 150K miles on it. I take great care of it and it feels like only a 2 year old car. The hit I would take in depreciation blows away the benefit of $4500).
Now I'm not sure if that's environmentally irresponsible, or just irresponsible in general, but there are a lot of vehicles that are still very nice cars or trucks that are being scrapped here.
And I do realize that one of the goals is to get more fuel efficient cars on the roads, but it just doesn't feel right to me to throw away a car that is still good.
(BTW, I'm not trading in my "clunker" it's been paid for for years and has 150K miles on it. I take great care of it and it feels like only a 2 year old car. The hit I would take in depreciation blows away the benefit of $4500).
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
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I guess it doesn't really matter anymore, since the program is out of money and has been discontinued. Good planning there. But I guess things will go more smoothly when the government takes over our health care. I'm sure it will be fully funded and well thought-out. Or not.
for the least they could possibly do
let see...private industry couldn't give cars away...the gov't steps in and suddenly car sales rise...yeah, what a failure...
CfoC was targeted and effective...and kudos for the inept gov't for keeping up with the program, tracking it so were aware when the money ran out and stop it...I guess they were 0-2... :roll:
as for the environmental worries...cars are scrapped every day...why the worry now...?
instead they went through 3 times the money in less than 1/100th of a year....if i hired a financial planner who ended up doing that, they would no longer be a financial planner.
Instead of ready, aim, fire! the gov't is doing ready, fire, aim! Which is not a smart tactic with tax payers dollars.
Anyone can make sales rise through forced deflation.
it was supposed to run until November 1, 2009...
facts do help sometimes...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
sometimes they do
you can't deny that it was poorly planned
interesting point...I suppose the environment would be better off with gas guzzlers then without gas guzzlers, at least that seems to be your point...
I can deny that...
I prefer to say it was wildly successful...
you should've done press releases for the Bush Admin.
actually, i think his 'point' is.....do we really know that it is better to get the gas guzzlers off the road and in newer cars, coupled with the amount of WASTE from these said excessed cars....OR......even being gas guzzlers would it be more environmentally effective to allow them to keep going and die their natural car death down the road? is wasting gas = to wasting all that scrap? is it better to get fuel efficient now and creat all the waste now....or hold off on the waste and burn up more fuel in the interim? it IS a good question, and 1 i don't have an answer for.
personally, in the other thread about this, someone suggested it was more about stimulating the economy and car sales than the environment, and i kinda go with that train of thought. who the fuck knows tho?
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Exactly. I'm sure the government can fix any problem in America in the short-term, simply by throwing money at it. What happens when the money runs out?
If you want something done right, don't let the government do it.
for the least they could possibly do
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/04/22 ... 2384.shtml
Or paying for extra carbon credits to be able to pollute more...
This next link is from Penn & Teller, so I don't know how true it is, but it's from their program "BULLSHIT," which goes on to explain how RECYLCLING IS BULLSHIT. Again, I don't know if this is actually true, but they make some very compelling arguments:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... shit&hl=en
...all for the sake of capitalism.
Doesn't seem like a very liberal thing to do to me...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
actually it has not been discontinued. the house (i believe) voted to infuse the program with another 2 billion bucks on either thursday or friday last week.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
this reads like than alanis morrisette tune...;)
ya know, i am a big proponent of recycling, very much so....but i have OFTEN wondered if in recycling our waste paper/glass/plastic...the amount of fuel burned to collect it, sort it, move it elsewhere, etc......does it actually DO anything positive in the long-run, or does it simply make us feel better? i just don't know....but i'd like to think it still Is a positive.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I hear you and understand the point...I guess for me, a piece of scrap is not burning fuel at rate of 15 miles per gallon...
As for recylcing: everyone would like to think of it as a positive, but what if it really isn't? What if it's actually doing more harm to the environment than good? If you haven't watched the video-- watch it. In short, the only thing worth recycling is aluminum, and it is no coincidence that you are actually PAID for your scrap aluminum unlike paper, pastic, glass, or anything else. A major reason that people recycle is because that they actually believe that they are doing good, and it makes them feel good.
I know this stuff probably gets old when I say it over and over again, but it's probably just another racket with government enforced protection. Sure, the intentions seem good, but it's really just another area where a business has used its influence to sway the government to make laws that further their own interests. The environment comes second, if at all.
"It's like 10,000 bureacrat assholes forcefully taking your hard earned money when all you need is freedom and some common sense!"
Even that's not completely black and white because it might be a 3rd car that's barely getting any use but is still drivable and not rotting somewhere and now they're getting $4500 from the government so they scrap it.
I just feel like this side of the cash for clunkers program has been kept very quiet by this administration.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
i'm touched...for the lyric dedication, and for the upgrade to 'buddy' status...;)
as ever vinny, i hear ya.....and it saddens me, b/c i really, really, really want to believe it's a positive. i'll check out the link.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I wonder how many more miles the new owners will drive now that they have a new, dependable, more fuel efficient car.
that, my friend, is a good question...
now you're just tossing in "what-if" variables...
I'll play...what if the car was getting 10 miles a gallon and burning a quart a oil every 1000 miles and it was their daily driver...I guess it would be better to scrap it...
They upped its funding actually. I don't get why people bitch about this program. In a huge 700 billion dollar stimulus package, ONE program costing 1/700th of the package has done more for our economy than anything else could possibly have accomplished... it actually worked and helped out the citizens of this country... and people are pissed becos congress didn't anticipate that it would be nearly as successful and popular as it was. Isn't congress doing something we like and appreciate for once a good thing? Would you be happier if that money went to more cow fart studies? Or are you just bitter that for once they did something that worked and it deprives you of the chance to whine about it?
alrighty, that just made me laugh....
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
as for the clunkers being traded in harming the environment...these cars will eventually go to the dump at some point...this program accelerates that
the real question is - where is the stimulus package that is going to put $4,500 cash in my hands! a trip to australia is in order!
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Another thought I had was with some of the people is maybe the reason they didn't get a new car is because they can't afford the payment and higher insurance rates. Was it smart for Dealerships/GOV Motors to extend credit to people who perhaps will default on these loans just to sell cars. Hopefully this Car Bubble wont pop.
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