I think many of us just need to calm the fuck down about the Vault thing. There should be some trust credits built up right about now. (Not saying that everyone is all worked up, but I just feel it tensing up a bit, it's going to be okay, and even though it's not a promise I can really make, I'm going to. It's going to be okay, I promise.)
not with live vault shows, they dont have many credits built up. 12/31/92 freebie w/ Avocado, MTV Unplugged and Drop in the Park were all flawed, IMO. that being said, I'm hoping they do these vault shows right and make sure they are complete, unedited and available in a lossless format (FLAC). Please!
and I think what you look at as "tensing up" is just excitement. I was excited too, then I realized that I should remember those last three releases and not get my hopes up. let's hope these vault are similar to the tour bootlegs they have done a great job with, and they are the first step in MANY vault shows being released.
[/quote]
not with live vault shows, they dont have many credits built up. 12/31/92 freebie w/ Avocado, MTV Unplugged and Drop in the Park were all flawed, IMO. that being said, I'm hoping they do these vault shows right and make sure they are complete, unedited and available in a lossless format (FLAC). Please!
and I think what you look at as "tensing up" is just excitement. I was excited too, then I realized that I should remember those last three releases and not get my hopes up. let's hope these vault are similar to the tour bootlegs they have done a great job with, and they are the first step in MANY vault shows being released.[/quote]
Interesting, how is the 12/31 and Drop in the Park flawed? I know about Unplugged.
the band is deciding whether to play outdoor amphitheaters or arenas
Just want the band to know that Minneapolis has two new great stadiums that would love to have their concert cherries popped next year: The Twins' Target Field and the University of Minnesota's new Football Stadium
Seattle 8/91, MPLS 3/92, St Paul 8/92, Denver 6/95, Missoula 6/98, MPLS 6/98, Albuquerque 10/00, Seattle 12/02, St Paul 6/03, Thunder Bay 9/05, DC 5/06, St Paul x2 6/06, Vancouver (EV) 4/08, DC 6/08, Chicago x2 8/09, KC 5/10, MPLS (EV) 7/11, Chicago 7/13, St Paul 10/14, Santiago 11/15, Missoula 8/18, Denver 9/22, Saint Paul 8/23, Saint Paul 9/23, Auckland, NZ x2 11/24
I like that they are considering taking it inside for a 2010 tour as opposed to the amphitheaters.
Me too. I've always preferred indoor shows for MANY reasons. I like the odd outdoor show in the summer (Toronto will be fun!) but if I had to pick one or the other I would pick an arena show without a second of thought...
1996: Toronto
1998: Barrie
2000: Saratoga Springs
2003: Buffalo, Toronto
2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto
2006: Toronto x2, Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Gorge #1
2007: London, Dusseldorf, Vic, Lolla
2008: WPB, Tampa, DC, MSG x2, Hartford, Boston x2, Beacon
2009: Toronto, Chicago x2, Seattle x2, LA #3&4, San Diego, Philly x4
2010: Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford
2011: Montreal, Toronto x2, Hamilton
2012: Missoula
2013: London, Wrigley, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Hartford, Dallas, OKC
"The group remains a huge touring draw and A-list festival headliner, having grossed nearly $42 million from 51 shows reported to Billboard Boxscore from 2006 to 2008."
I am really curious as to how the apologists who defend the high ticket prices will respond to that glaring statistic.
A bunch of cool news in there. I can't wait for the vault.
I don't think anybody said Pearl Jam was poor. Ticket prices are high because that's the going rate in this day and age.
That said, grossing $42 million and netting $42 million are two different things. I'd be interested to see how much they actually MADE touring. Obviously, it's considerably less than $42 million.
I'm sure they did just fine and about 1000x's more fine than any of the people paying $90 to see them. And I wouldn't say people said the band was poor but the tone of certain posts when trying to justify high ticket prices for the band and Eddie were pretty comical and they border on calling them poor. Some people just refuse to admit that the band are driven by money now. I don't blame them but I do think there is a happy medium where you take care of your fans at the same time as taking care of your checking account.
And to the people wigging out about the vault....aren't 97% of the shows Pearl Jam have played available in some form or another in the trading community? It's not worth stressing over. Deep breaths...it'll be fine
I'm sure they did just fine and about 1000x's more fine than any of the people paying $90 to see them. And I wouldn't say people said the band was poor but the tone of certain posts when trying to justify high ticket prices for the band and Eddie were pretty comical and they border on calling them poor. Some people just refuse to admit that the band are driven by money now. I don't blame them but I do think there is a happy medium where you take care of your fans at the same time as taking care of your checking account.
And to the people wigging out about the vault....aren't 97% of the shows Pearl Jam have played available in some form or another in the trading community? It's not worth stressing over. Deep breaths...it'll be fine
I think I can safely say I agree with everything in this post.
And I'm hoping they pick some cool shows for the vault that are not already available in soundboard, but I know almost every show is out there anyway so just hoping for some good ones.
I'm sure they did just fine and about 1000x's more fine than any of the people paying $90 to see them.
Well, no shit. I'm sure the owner of the local car dealership is better off than me, too. Should he be morally obligated to sell me a car for half price, you know, just cuz ?
And I wouldn't say people said the band was poor but the tone of certain posts when trying to justify high ticket prices for the band and Eddie were pretty comical and they border on calling them poor. Some people just refuse to admit that the band are driven by money now.
I think "driven by money" is a little melodramatic, don't you? It's not like they are charging $300. They are charging what the market dictates. So what? It's not out of line with other arena rock shows.
I don't blame them but I do think there is a happy medium where you take care of your fans at the same time as taking care of your checking account.
What do you mean take care of the fans? Practically every show I've been to has been sold out, so *somebody* is buying these tickets. There are plenty of fans who are being "taken care of." I just don't see why the band should feel obligated slash their ticket prices to below market value just because some people can't afford them. They should cut you a break, just to be a pal? That's kind of stupid, frankly. This argument wouldn't work anywhere else, with any other good or any other service. I don't know why people think this argument works here.
The tickets cost what they cost. If you want to pay that much, you do. If you don't, you don't. When my wife wants to go see "Little Shop of Horrors" or "Lion King" or some other piece of Broadway shit when it comes through town, I decide if I've got $100 a pop to spend on tickets, or not. There's no getting on the "Little Shop of Horrors" message board and moaning about the high ticket prices. I either pay them or I don't. And if I don't, someone else will.
In the same sense, there's no "defending" Pearl Jam ticket prices. They just are what they are. It's what happens when rock bands get older, and their fan base gets older and (ostensibly) gets real jobs and can afford a higher priced ticket. The Who aren't charging $15 anymore, either.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
so after being in full blown baseball trade deadline and Red Sox game mode (Sox win, hell yeah) ... I finally read this ... GREAT STUFF ...
.... and has pointed out a few pages back, this didn't pass me by ...
Also on tap is a headlining slot Oct. 4 at the Austin City Limits festival, plus a run of shows in Australia, New Zealand and Hawaii in November and December.
mmmm, winter vacation!!!
I can't imagine one person on this board being bitter right now.
(well ... except for the Philly fans waiting for a 3rd show, of course.)
"You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
yeah hawaii is intriguing....kicking myself for not going in 06....pearl jam and U2 and hawaii!!!
i'm a shithead :twisted: :ugeek:
exactly how I feel looking back on it ...
granted, I alreday had a trip to Brazil in October of that year planned and booked when I found out about Hawaii ... but, I should have made PJ/U2 work ....
comrades in shitheaddom.
"You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
yeah hawaii is intriguing....kicking myself for not going in 06....pearl jam and U2 and hawaii!!!
i'm a shithead :twisted: :ugeek:
exactly how I feel looking back on it ...
granted, I alreday had a trip to Brazil in October of that year planned and booked when I found out about Hawaii ... but, I should have made PJ/U2 work ....
comrades in shitheaddom.
yeah i just didn't want/have the money....i've been trying to stop living off credit for the last several years and i didn't want to do it then
Interesting, how is the 12/31 and Drop in the Park flawed? I know about Unplugged.
12/31 was a below average recording, one that was already circulating amongst the trading community for many years. when I'm getting a show directly from the band, as incentive to pay more and order the album from the fan club, rather than buying the same album for a cheaper price at a store, I expect it to be a professionally recorded show.
Drop in the Park is missing songs (Sonic Reducer and RITFW). there are also fades between songs. no good.
some of you may flame me (flame on) or think I'm being picky and should just be grateful, but this is a band that has a history of valuing live recordings. I would not have paid for these things had I known about these flaws, and that makes me feel ripped off.
it's like hiring a world renown chef to prepare your dinner and he or she brings out frozen pizza.
it's like hiring a world renown chef to prepare your dinner and he or she brings out frozen pizza.
Didnt you know it wasn't delivery, it was Digiornos?
Yeah - lame joke. I know what you mean though. The real question I have now is how can the TC not give any incentive to preorder the CD through them where with Target you can get TWO live concertns AND the entire album on Rockband? That's just seeming odd to me.
Well, no shit. I'm sure the owner of the local car dealership is better off than me, too. Should he be morally obligated to sell me a car for half price, you know, just cuz ?
I think "driven by money" is a little melodramatic, don't you? It's not like they are charging $300. They are charging what the market dictates. So what? It's not out of line with other arena rock shows.
I don't blame them but I do think there is a happy medium where you take care of your fans at the same time as taking care of your checking account.
What do you mean take care of the fans? Practically every show I've been to has been sold out, so *somebody* is buying these tickets. There are plenty of fans who are being "taken care of." I just don't see why the band should feel obligated slash their ticket prices to below market value just because some people can't afford them. They should cut you a break, just to be a pal? That's kind of stupid, frankly. This argument wouldn't work anywhere else, with any other good or any other service. I don't know why people think this argument works here.
The tickets cost what they cost. If you want to pay that much, you do. If you don't, you don't. When my wife wants to go see "Little Shop of Horrors" or "Lion King" or some other piece of Broadway shit when it comes through town, I decide if I've got $100 a pop to spend on tickets, or not. There's no getting on the "Little Shop of Horrors" message board and moaning about the high ticket prices. I either pay them or I don't. And if I don't, someone else will.
In the same sense, there's no "defending" Pearl Jam ticket prices. They just are what they are. It's what happens when rock bands get older, and their fan base gets older and (ostensibly) gets real jobs and can afford a higher priced ticket. The Who aren't charging $15 anymore, either.
There is a huge difference between your used car dealership making 6 figures a year and PJ making $42 MILLION. He isn't morally obligated to sell you at a discount but I doubt that he went public with interviews in the 90's saying fuck ticketmaster, I love Fugazi and $15 tickets, it's all about keeping ticket prices low, etc.
They aren't charging $300 because very very few people would pay $300. $200 poster books, $40 tshirts, $35 posters, $80 tickets for Eddie sitting by himself on stage for 2 hours....they ARE driven by money. When you make $42 million, you can probably afford to lower some of your prices a bit. And their prices are in line by certain shows (Bruce, The Stones) but definitely out of line when you compare them to other contemporaries closer to them in success and relevance (Radiohead, Green Day, etc.) Even Metallica is cheaper than them and they have a very sick stage setup. Actually, Bruce had $19.67 tickets for the spectrum shows.
By taking care of the fans, I mean not charging the maximum amount. I would say they are on the cusp of the amount of money they can charge and sell out. After service charges, Philly tickets were a little more than $90. I don't think they sell out 2 shows if they are $110 each. There is NO REASON why Spectrum tickets that cost $40 in 2003 should be $90 in 2009 OTHER than the band wants the money. As I said...that is fine. We pay it, it's their choice but people can't continue to say they are a "band of the people" and it's all about the fans. It is clearly about the money at this point. More power to them.
What a fucking awesome article. Really summed up so many things that were in question.
And by in question I mean by the Premature Ejaculators who whined and cried about the target deal.
I mean nothing will change. NOTHING WILL CHANGE. Despite how awesome this band is, and how awesome the Ten Club treats us, and how much of a bargain the cost of membership is, how reasonable the ticket prices are in this day in age (or at least how the ticket price should be easily understood by anyone with 1/2 a brain), no matter where or how much, or how often they tour, the Negative Anger, No Perspective, Spouting Jackamoes, will still verbally puke all over these message boards.
It is truly a sickening thing to witness.
Thank you Pearl Jam and Ten Club for what has already been an amazing 2009, and it hasn't even really started to get good yet.
Now I hand this thread back to the majority of Fans who appreciate everything that the article spoke about, and to the vocal minority of Loudmouth no nothings who want to sully these boards with their glazed over angry view of the world (and band) that is out to get them.
WOOOOO, this article is brilliant!!!
I am excited about all the fantastic news (especially Rock Band DLC), and I am really looking forward to seeing the European dates in 2010!
This must be an incredible year for all PJ fans!
Budapest.Budapest.Arnhem.Antwerpen.Vienna.Madrid.Katowice.Nova_rock.Nijmegen.Rotterdam.Berlin.Dublin.Belfast.London.Venice.Prague.Stockholm.Copenhagen.Vienna.Leeds.Milton_keynes.Padova.Prague.Seattle1.Seattle2.Chicago1.Budapest.Cracow.Vienna..>>>LONDON.BERLIN1.BERLIN2 Eddie: Dublin & London
holy shit!! there was a whole lotta goodness in that there little interview!.....and backspacer dropping on Rockband on release day?! didn't see that coming! cool!
2010 = Boston & NY shows!!!
shit is getting hot in the kitchen baby..bring on the Philly shows!! ...in 3 months
i think i may have to install a fire poll in my house too, going to my bathroom downstairs....because i almost shit myself when i read this article!....thanks for posting!!
Several things came to mind here..
First off, here we have confirmation from Stone that - yes, you doubters - the band has always had their own profits in mind, and simply didn't have the know-how!
Second, the band's distribution method (exclusive with Target) IS actually mildly revolutionary! I didn't know about this, but that article really made it sound like this is a very respected decision from the industry, which is great to hear.
Third, lean and mean. Need I say more?
Fourth, I guess we know what happened to the vault! Very smart way of actually implementing it... this way, Pearl Jam can probably hand Target a bunch of paper slips to put in the bag of each album sold with a code, rather than printing this album in four or five different versions. I hope Ten Club remembers to treat us (as they always do!) to something special too - even those of us who bought the LPs
Finally..
Bring it on
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
"The group remains a huge touring draw and A-list festival headliner, having grossed nearly $42 million from 51 shows reported to Billboard Boxscore from 2006 to 2008."
I am really curious as to how the apologists who defend the high ticket prices will respond to that glaring statistic.
A bunch of cool news in there. I can't wait for the vault.
I really don't know enough about this, but here's my opinion. Scalpers are prominent now that, should an artist price tickets too low, when the demand is too great, I would think that scalpers would catch onto this, buy tons of tickets, and resell away at higher prices. Obviously this doesn't sound right, but I'd say true market price, the price which Pearl Jam SHOULD be selling tickets at to maximize profit, is probably the average cost for a sold out show including all money spent on tickets - including both primary and secondary markets, and then work their ticket prices up and down from this average - include many cheapie seats, and some pricier ones. If the band could've charged $90 'back in the day' for a ticket - who's to say they wouldn't have?
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
The band finally took the plunge this spring when it made all of the songs from "Ten" available for download on "Rock Band" the same day the reissue hit stores. Curtis declined to discuss sales, but sources at MTV say the "Ten" songs have generated more than 850,000 downloads.
holy shit! i wonder if thats individual song downloads or for the entire ten album d/l for rb. either way, WOW! and very cool about backspacer and the target rb dlc.
Curtis says the plan for 2010 touring is still coming together and that the band is deciding whether to play outdoor amphitheaters or arenas, which it prefers.
Play as many arenas as you want, but just make sure you PLAY ALPINE!!!
1998: East Troy 2000: East Troy, Rosemont 2003: Champaign 2006: Chicago (UC), Milwaukee 2007: Chicago (Lolla) 2009: Chicago (UC), Chicago (UC) 2010: Noblesville 2011: East Troy (PJ20), East Troy (PJ20) 2013: Chicago (WF), Seattle 2014: St. Louis 2016: Chicago (WF), Chicago (WF) 2018: Chicago (WF), Chicago (WF) 2022: St. Louis 2023: Chicago (UC), Chicago (UC) 2024: Chicago (WF), Chicago (WF)
Interesting, how is the 12/31 and Drop in the Park flawed? I know about Unplugged.
12/31 was a below average recording, one that was already circulating amongst the trading community for many years. when I'm getting a show directly from the band, as incentive to pay more and order the album from the fan club, rather than buying the same album for a cheaper price at a store, I expect it to be a professionally recorded show.
Drop in the Park is missing songs (Sonic Reducer and RITFW). there are also fades between songs. no good.
some of you may flame me (flame on) or think I'm being picky and should just be grateful, but this is a band that has a history of valuing live recordings. I would not have paid for these things had I known about these flaws, and that makes me feel ripped off.
it's like hiring a world renown chef to prepare your dinner and he or she brings out frozen pizza.
Agree with you 100%. Having said that, I will be shocked if all 11 choices are FLAC. Not that this band hasn't given enough already...
And we were promised the vault back before the 2005 tour, and there's only about a handful of vault shows, and of that handful ONE is FLAC (1/14/95), and it was basically used as a test before the '06 tour for those boots. I can remember drooling over the newsletter when I read that Brett was going to dig into the vault. All I could think about were shows like The Orpheum (4/12/94), Slim's Cafe (5/13/93), Greek Theater (10/31/93), and on and on. Personally, I have standards like a lot of folks here in regards to quality, but I'll take what I can get...as long as they sound better than 12/31.
There is a huge difference between your used car dealership making 6 figures a year and PJ making $42 MILLION. He isn't morally obligated to sell you at a discount but I doubt that he went public with interviews in the 90's saying fuck ticketmaster, I love Fugazi and $15 tickets, it's all about keeping ticket prices low, etc.
They aren't charging $300 because very very few people would pay $300. $200 poster books, $40 tshirts, $35 posters, $80 tickets for Eddie sitting by himself on stage for 2 hours....they ARE driven by money. When you make $42 million, you can probably afford to lower some of your prices a bit. And their prices are in line by certain shows (Bruce, The Stones) but definitely out of line when you compare them to other contemporaries closer to them in success and relevance (Radiohead, Green Day, etc.) Even Metallica is cheaper than them and they have a very sick stage setup. Actually, Bruce had $19.67 tickets for the spectrum shows.
By taking care of the fans, I mean not charging the maximum amount. I would say they are on the cusp of the amount of money they can charge and sell out. After service charges, Philly tickets were a little more than $90. I don't think they sell out 2 shows if they are $110 each. There is NO REASON why Spectrum tickets that cost $40 in 2003 should be $90 in 2009 OTHER than the band wants the money. As I said...that is fine. We pay it, it's their choice but people can't continue to say they are a "band of the people" and it's all about the fans. It is clearly about the money at this point. More power to them.
I know it isn't the central figure to your argument, but (again) Pearl Jam did not MAKE $42 million last year. I'm sure they made a hefty penny. I'm not arguing that. But it's difficult to discuss an issue like this with some who shows very little grasp of basic economic terms.
The $42 million is what they GROSSED. Essentially, that's the amount of tickets they sold. That $42 million gets cut about 90,000 ways before it winds up in Eddie Vedder's pocket.
Now that we've got that out of the way ... we're just going to have to agree to disagree. To me, "driven by money" means "all I care about is money." And I don't get that vibe from this band at all. If the fan base dried up overnight, I believe Ed would still play music for his own cathartic benefit in his basement, whether or not he made money off of it or not.
Also, have you checked out the amount of money these guys give away each year, both individually and as a group? Seems like if it were "all about money," they'd hold on to a little more of it for themselves, eh?
Essentially, your argument boils down to the same old rich-person penis envy that is ruining America on a broader scale. "Wah! You're rich, and I'm not. You should cut me a break and give me something for less than it's worth. C'mon, you can afford it! Wah!"
Frankly, your claim that it is "clearly only about money at this point" is just as silly as those who would argue that Pearl Jam is a "band of the people" (what in the fuck does that even mean?). It's a ridiculous, over-the-top extreme, and ridiculous, over-the-top extremes almost never paint an accurate portrait of the truth. There can't be any middle ground here? Really? They've either got to give their art away for substantially less than it's worth, or they've got to be money-grubbing douchebags?
How about, they are charging a premium now to recoup all of the money left on the table when they were charging well below the market rate in the 90s? How about they are an admittedly expensive concert ticket, but they still do things to take care of and appreciate their fan base?
Or does it have to be all or none, black and white? They are either philanthropists or they are fan-gouging assholes?
Pearl Jam did their part in the 90s to keep costs low. Now, those days are gone. It seems silly to hold them to a standard set 15 years ago, just like it would be silly for others to hold you or I to a standard set 15 years ago. Times change. People change. It's time to move on and stop living in the past.
Anyway, enjoy your Fugazi show. I'm sure it will be worth every penny.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Pearl Jam did their part in the 90s to keep costs low. Now, those days are gone. It seems silly to hold them to a standard set 15 years ago, just like it would be silly for others to hold you or I to a standard set 15 years ago. Times change. People change. It's time to move on and stop living in the past.
Anyway, enjoy your Fugazi show. I'm sure it will be worth every penny.
Perfectly put - great post.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
All of the people who bashed the band on here when news of the Target deal broke are eating crow now. Goes to show you that you shouldn't jump to conclusions until you have ALL OF THE FACTS!!!
Releasing the album simply through Pearl Jam's Ten Club fan organization was out of the question, according to Curtis and Anthony, simply because of logistics. Target ultimately got the nod because, Anthony says, "in our discussions with the big-box retailers, they were really the only one that understood the band's philosophy and the need to take care of the Ten Club and the indies and hit other distribution platforms."
Curtis concurs. "I got a call from someone at Best Buy after the Target deal was announced, saying, 'Why did we not get this?' " he says. "And it was because they would not even entertain the thought of taking care of these other platforms."
I'm not eating crow at all. Target still gets an great exclusive included with the disc, which screws the independents even more than they already are screwed. Not surprised really, but just put this in perspective. I'm glad that the band is still reaching out to independent stores, but i would be shocked if 1/100th or their sales come from them. Fans of the band, even if they support the independent philosophy, will still buy the album at Target for the downloads.
That being said, I agree there is a lot of cool news in this article and I am excited for the album and the Chicago shows!
Interesting, how is the 12/31 and Drop in the Park flawed? I know about Unplugged.
12/31 was a below average recording, one that was already circulating amongst the trading community for many years. when I'm getting a show directly from the band, as incentive to pay more and order the album from the fan club, rather than buying the same album for a cheaper price at a store, I expect it to be a professionally recorded show.
Drop in the Park is missing songs (Sonic Reducer and RITFW). there are also fades between songs. no good.
some of you may flame me (flame on) or think I'm being picky and should just be grateful, but this is a band that has a history of valuing live recordings. I would not have paid for these things had I known about these flaws, and that makes me feel ripped off.
it's like hiring a world renown chef to prepare your dinner and he or she brings out frozen pizza.
Thanks. Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to argue I just didn't know that about 12/31 and Drop in the Park. I listened to 12/31 maybe once or twice and Drop in the Park is on my ipod, but I haven't looked closely to see if songs are missing.
I agree with you, I didn't like that Unplugged was missing songs. If they want to sell something with missing songs, fine, but you need to let people know when they are buying it. This has been beaten to death, but Unplugged was really lame because they hyped it as including "Oceans" which was unaired, failing to mention
that song(s) were left off and Ed talking between songs.
Back to the thread: I am very excited about the album and this article. I have really liked what I have heard so far from the album and like "The fixer" more every time I hear it.
We seem to forget that 1995 Pearl Jam didn't care so much about money because they didn't have families. Ed never thought he live long, and so on.. Now not only are they making money for themselves, but their children and their children's children.. Not to mention the hundreds of people who work for them, set up the tour, board moderators, merch, and so on..
Their careers won't be forever. We'll be lucky to get another 10 years out of them. I'm sure they are saving up as much money as they can for their families and retirement.
Comments
not with live vault shows, they dont have many credits built up. 12/31/92 freebie w/ Avocado, MTV Unplugged and Drop in the Park were all flawed, IMO. that being said, I'm hoping they do these vault shows right and make sure they are complete, unedited and available in a lossless format (FLAC). Please!
and I think what you look at as "tensing up" is just excitement. I was excited too, then I realized that I should remember those last three releases and not get my hopes up. let's hope these vault are similar to the tour bootlegs they have done a great job with, and they are the first step in MANY vault shows being released.
Posters for Sale: http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/117469/posters-for-sale
T-Shirts for Sale: http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/149289/pj-t-shirt-trade-or-sale
not with live vault shows, they dont have many credits built up. 12/31/92 freebie w/ Avocado, MTV Unplugged and Drop in the Park were all flawed, IMO. that being said, I'm hoping they do these vault shows right and make sure they are complete, unedited and available in a lossless format (FLAC). Please!
and I think what you look at as "tensing up" is just excitement. I was excited too, then I realized that I should remember those last three releases and not get my hopes up. let's hope these vault are similar to the tour bootlegs they have done a great job with, and they are the first step in MANY vault shows being released.[/quote]
Interesting, how is the 12/31 and Drop in the Park flawed? I know about Unplugged.
Just want the band to know that Minneapolis has two new great stadiums that would love to have their concert cherries popped next year: The Twins' Target Field and the University of Minnesota's new Football Stadium
Pearl Jam is the band for the job!
http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/min/ball ... t_view.jsp
http://stadium.gophersports.com/?DB_OEM_ID=8400
I like that they are considering taking it inside for a 2010 tour as opposed to the amphitheaters.
I'm sure they did just fine and about 1000x's more fine than any of the people paying $90 to see them. And I wouldn't say people said the band was poor but the tone of certain posts when trying to justify high ticket prices for the band and Eddie were pretty comical and they border on calling them poor. Some people just refuse to admit that the band are driven by money now. I don't blame them but I do think there is a happy medium where you take care of your fans at the same time as taking care of your checking account.
And to the people wigging out about the vault....aren't 97% of the shows Pearl Jam have played available in some form or another in the trading community? It's not worth stressing over. Deep breaths...it'll be fine
And I'm hoping they pick some cool shows for the vault that are not already available in soundboard, but I know almost every show is out there anyway so just hoping for some good ones.
Well, no shit. I'm sure the owner of the local car dealership is better off than me, too. Should he be morally obligated to sell me a car for half price, you know, just cuz ?
I think "driven by money" is a little melodramatic, don't you? It's not like they are charging $300. They are charging what the market dictates. So what? It's not out of line with other arena rock shows.
What do you mean take care of the fans? Practically every show I've been to has been sold out, so *somebody* is buying these tickets. There are plenty of fans who are being "taken care of." I just don't see why the band should feel obligated slash their ticket prices to below market value just because some people can't afford them. They should cut you a break, just to be a pal? That's kind of stupid, frankly. This argument wouldn't work anywhere else, with any other good or any other service. I don't know why people think this argument works here.
The tickets cost what they cost. If you want to pay that much, you do. If you don't, you don't. When my wife wants to go see "Little Shop of Horrors" or "Lion King" or some other piece of Broadway shit when it comes through town, I decide if I've got $100 a pop to spend on tickets, or not. There's no getting on the "Little Shop of Horrors" message board and moaning about the high ticket prices. I either pay them or I don't. And if I don't, someone else will.
In the same sense, there's no "defending" Pearl Jam ticket prices. They just are what they are. It's what happens when rock bands get older, and their fan base gets older and (ostensibly) gets real jobs and can afford a higher priced ticket. The Who aren't charging $15 anymore, either.
for the least they could possibly do
.... and has pointed out a few pages back, this didn't pass me by ...
Also on tap is a headlining slot Oct. 4 at the Austin City Limits festival, plus a run of shows in Australia, New Zealand and Hawaii in November and December.
mmmm, winter vacation!!!
I can't imagine one person on this board being bitter right now.
(well ... except for the Philly fans waiting for a 3rd show, of course.)
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
i'm a shithead :twisted:
exactly how I feel looking back on it ...
granted, I alreday had a trip to Brazil in October of that year planned and booked when I found out about Hawaii ... but, I should have made PJ/U2 work ....
comrades in shitheaddom.
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
yeah i just didn't want/have the money....i've been trying to stop living off credit for the last several years and i didn't want to do it then
be responsible blows :twisted:
12/31 was a below average recording, one that was already circulating amongst the trading community for many years. when I'm getting a show directly from the band, as incentive to pay more and order the album from the fan club, rather than buying the same album for a cheaper price at a store, I expect it to be a professionally recorded show.
Drop in the Park is missing songs (Sonic Reducer and RITFW). there are also fades between songs. no good.
some of you may flame me (flame on) or think I'm being picky and should just be grateful, but this is a band that has a history of valuing live recordings. I would not have paid for these things had I known about these flaws, and that makes me feel ripped off.
it's like hiring a world renown chef to prepare your dinner and he or she brings out frozen pizza.
Posters for Sale: http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/117469/posters-for-sale
T-Shirts for Sale: http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/149289/pj-t-shirt-trade-or-sale
Yeah - lame joke. I know what you mean though. The real question I have now is how can the TC not give any incentive to preorder the CD through them where with Target you can get TWO live concertns AND the entire album on Rockband? That's just seeming odd to me.
There is a huge difference between your used car dealership making 6 figures a year and PJ making $42 MILLION. He isn't morally obligated to sell you at a discount but I doubt that he went public with interviews in the 90's saying fuck ticketmaster, I love Fugazi and $15 tickets, it's all about keeping ticket prices low, etc.
They aren't charging $300 because very very few people would pay $300. $200 poster books, $40 tshirts, $35 posters, $80 tickets for Eddie sitting by himself on stage for 2 hours....they ARE driven by money. When you make $42 million, you can probably afford to lower some of your prices a bit. And their prices are in line by certain shows (Bruce, The Stones) but definitely out of line when you compare them to other contemporaries closer to them in success and relevance (Radiohead, Green Day, etc.) Even Metallica is cheaper than them and they have a very sick stage setup. Actually, Bruce had $19.67 tickets for the spectrum shows.
By taking care of the fans, I mean not charging the maximum amount. I would say they are on the cusp of the amount of money they can charge and sell out. After service charges, Philly tickets were a little more than $90. I don't think they sell out 2 shows if they are $110 each. There is NO REASON why Spectrum tickets that cost $40 in 2003 should be $90 in 2009 OTHER than the band wants the money. As I said...that is fine. We pay it, it's their choice but people can't continue to say they are a "band of the people" and it's all about the fans. It is clearly about the money at this point. More power to them.
And by in question I mean by the Premature Ejaculators who whined and cried about the target deal.
I mean nothing will change. NOTHING WILL CHANGE. Despite how awesome this band is, and how awesome the Ten Club treats us, and how much of a bargain the cost of membership is, how reasonable the ticket prices are in this day in age (or at least how the ticket price should be easily understood by anyone with 1/2 a brain), no matter where or how much, or how often they tour, the Negative Anger, No Perspective, Spouting Jackamoes, will still verbally puke all over these message boards.
It is truly a sickening thing to witness.
Thank you Pearl Jam and Ten Club for what has already been an amazing 2009, and it hasn't even really started to get good yet.
Now I hand this thread back to the majority of Fans who appreciate everything that the article spoke about, and to the vocal minority of Loudmouth no nothings who want to sully these boards with their glazed over angry view of the world (and band) that is out to get them.
I am excited about all the fantastic news (especially Rock Band DLC), and I am really looking forward to seeing the European dates in 2010!
This must be an incredible year for all PJ fans!
Eddie: Dublin & London
I can hardly wait for the Hawaii announcement
2010 = Boston & NY shows!!!
shit is getting hot in the kitchen baby..bring on the Philly shows!!
i think i may have to install a fire poll in my house too, going to my bathroom downstairs....because i almost shit myself when i read this article!....thanks for posting!!
First off, here we have confirmation from Stone that - yes, you doubters - the band has always had their own profits in mind, and simply didn't have the know-how!
Second, the band's distribution method (exclusive with Target) IS actually mildly revolutionary! I didn't know about this, but that article really made it sound like this is a very respected decision from the industry, which is great to hear.
Third, lean and mean. Need I say more?
Fourth, I guess we know what happened to the vault! Very smart way of actually implementing it... this way, Pearl Jam can probably hand Target a bunch of paper slips to put in the bag of each album sold with a code, rather than printing this album in four or five different versions. I hope Ten Club remembers to treat us (as they always do!) to something special too - even those of us who bought the LPs
Finally..
Bring it on
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
holy shit! i wonder if thats individual song downloads or for the entire ten album d/l for rb. either way, WOW! and very cool about backspacer and the target rb dlc.
Agree with you 100%. Having said that, I will be shocked if all 11 choices are FLAC. Not that this band hasn't given enough already...
And we were promised the vault back before the 2005 tour, and there's only about a handful of vault shows, and of that handful ONE is FLAC (1/14/95), and it was basically used as a test before the '06 tour for those boots. I can remember drooling over the newsletter when I read that Brett was going to dig into the vault. All I could think about were shows like The Orpheum (4/12/94), Slim's Cafe (5/13/93), Greek Theater (10/31/93), and on and on. Personally, I have standards like a lot of folks here in regards to quality, but I'll take what I can get...as long as they sound better than 12/31.
I know it isn't the central figure to your argument, but (again) Pearl Jam did not MAKE $42 million last year. I'm sure they made a hefty penny. I'm not arguing that. But it's difficult to discuss an issue like this with some who shows very little grasp of basic economic terms.
The $42 million is what they GROSSED. Essentially, that's the amount of tickets they sold. That $42 million gets cut about 90,000 ways before it winds up in Eddie Vedder's pocket.
Now that we've got that out of the way ... we're just going to have to agree to disagree. To me, "driven by money" means "all I care about is money." And I don't get that vibe from this band at all. If the fan base dried up overnight, I believe Ed would still play music for his own cathartic benefit in his basement, whether or not he made money off of it or not.
Also, have you checked out the amount of money these guys give away each year, both individually and as a group? Seems like if it were "all about money," they'd hold on to a little more of it for themselves, eh?
Essentially, your argument boils down to the same old rich-person penis envy that is ruining America on a broader scale. "Wah! You're rich, and I'm not. You should cut me a break and give me something for less than it's worth. C'mon, you can afford it! Wah!"
Frankly, your claim that it is "clearly only about money at this point" is just as silly as those who would argue that Pearl Jam is a "band of the people" (what in the fuck does that even mean?). It's a ridiculous, over-the-top extreme, and ridiculous, over-the-top extremes almost never paint an accurate portrait of the truth. There can't be any middle ground here? Really? They've either got to give their art away for substantially less than it's worth, or they've got to be money-grubbing douchebags?
How about, they are charging a premium now to recoup all of the money left on the table when they were charging well below the market rate in the 90s? How about they are an admittedly expensive concert ticket, but they still do things to take care of and appreciate their fan base?
Or does it have to be all or none, black and white? They are either philanthropists or they are fan-gouging assholes?
Pearl Jam did their part in the 90s to keep costs low. Now, those days are gone. It seems silly to hold them to a standard set 15 years ago, just like it would be silly for others to hold you or I to a standard set 15 years ago. Times change. People change. It's time to move on and stop living in the past.
Anyway, enjoy your Fugazi show. I'm sure it will be worth every penny.
for the least they could possibly do
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I'm not eating crow at all. Target still gets an great exclusive included with the disc, which screws the independents even more than they already are screwed. Not surprised really, but just put this in perspective. I'm glad that the band is still reaching out to independent stores, but i would be shocked if 1/100th or their sales come from them. Fans of the band, even if they support the independent philosophy, will still buy the album at Target for the downloads.
That being said, I agree there is a lot of cool news in this article and I am excited for the album and the Chicago shows!
Thanks. Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to argue I just didn't know that about 12/31 and Drop in the Park. I listened to 12/31 maybe once or twice and Drop in the Park is on my ipod, but I haven't looked closely to see if songs are missing.
I agree with you, I didn't like that Unplugged was missing songs. If they want to sell something with missing songs, fine, but you need to let people know when they are buying it. This has been beaten to death, but Unplugged was really lame because they hyped it as including "Oceans" which was unaired, failing to mention
that song(s) were left off and Ed talking between songs.
Back to the thread: I am very excited about the album and this article. I have really liked what I have heard so far from the album and like "The fixer" more every time I hear it.
Their careers won't be forever. We'll be lucky to get another 10 years out of them. I'm sure they are saving up as much money as they can for their families and retirement.