What should be done about sports stars who take steroids?
musicismylife78
Posts: 6,116
Seems like every single sport is engulfed in a controversy where their star atheletes have been accused of taking or have been shown to have taken steroids.
What should be done about it?
Hank Aaron suggested letting the "dopers" into the hall of fame, and that one should put an asterisk next to their name.
What I dont get is what thought pattern are these athletes using? Yes it seems in the MLB a TON of players used steroids and that it wasnt just McGuire and Sosa and Bonds. But was a large number of players. But just because a lot of people are doing something, doesnt make it alright for you to do it.
Didnt they think they would be caught? What did they think would happen? People like Palmiero, who lied under oath and said "I have never taken steroid, period", but actually did take them. Did he think he was going to get a slap on the wrist and thats it?
One of the reasons I dont watch sports is the caveman and Third Reich following that fans seem to have for teams and players. Its all about winning. At all costs. Ever been to any sports game, of any sport? What happens when a ref calls a foul on "your" team? Even if the foul is justified? The entire crowd erupts in boos. Any call 'against" your team is a bad call.
I think people like Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Pete Sampras, can inspire young people to achieve, to go get their dreams. I think many of them, especially Tiger Woods and MJ, Bill Russell, and Jesse Owens of long ago, have the power to bring race into the equation and to fight racism.
What are kids shown now? One sees in sports that winning is the ultimate goal. That if you lose, or god forbid you only hit 30 homers in the season instead of 73, or if you only bat 230 instead of 300 that you are failure. Winning is the goal at all costs.
I think its sad.
What should be done about it?
Hank Aaron suggested letting the "dopers" into the hall of fame, and that one should put an asterisk next to their name.
What I dont get is what thought pattern are these athletes using? Yes it seems in the MLB a TON of players used steroids and that it wasnt just McGuire and Sosa and Bonds. But was a large number of players. But just because a lot of people are doing something, doesnt make it alright for you to do it.
Didnt they think they would be caught? What did they think would happen? People like Palmiero, who lied under oath and said "I have never taken steroid, period", but actually did take them. Did he think he was going to get a slap on the wrist and thats it?
One of the reasons I dont watch sports is the caveman and Third Reich following that fans seem to have for teams and players. Its all about winning. At all costs. Ever been to any sports game, of any sport? What happens when a ref calls a foul on "your" team? Even if the foul is justified? The entire crowd erupts in boos. Any call 'against" your team is a bad call.
I think people like Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Pete Sampras, can inspire young people to achieve, to go get their dreams. I think many of them, especially Tiger Woods and MJ, Bill Russell, and Jesse Owens of long ago, have the power to bring race into the equation and to fight racism.
What are kids shown now? One sees in sports that winning is the ultimate goal. That if you lose, or god forbid you only hit 30 homers in the season instead of 73, or if you only bat 230 instead of 300 that you are failure. Winning is the goal at all costs.
I think its sad.
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sports at a professional level is all about winning period. it is why there is a scoreboard. frankly in a world of 'reality tv' sports truly is the only reality because the reality of winning and losing is easily ascertained by the score. now I would agree that the end does not justify the means for people like Bonds, McGwire, etc. but let's not demonize all sports and all athletes because some cheated. not every financial person is a cheater like Bernie Madoff either. I would also argue with you that sports provides a lot more good than bad.
this shit will stop real quick.
oh jesus ... stop.
There can be a myriad of asterisks placed on every era of baseball ... steroids, PEDs, amphetamines, lively ball era, watered down pitching talent, segregation, rule changes etc etc etc ... hell, I tihnk there's a story where Babe Ruth tried to inject pigs urine into his system or something like that.
The record book is already so immensely bastardized ... who cares. Players should be compared to others in their era.
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
Pete Rose bet on games........while a coach. And he always bet on the Reds to win. He didn't throw games, he didn't cheat the team at all.
Selig will never allow him to get in the hall anyways
I think Pete should be allowed in the Hall of Fame for his on-field accomplishments but should never ever be given a chance to work in baseball again as a manager or in a front office.
How so? He wanted them to win. He didn't bet on them to lose and then put in their worst middle reliever to give up some insurance runs.
How could he justify letting in Bonds and not Rose?
My feelings on Pete Rose ... I think Rose should get in the HOF as a player, with a BIG explanation on his plaque of what he did ... but there should be no ceremony for him getting in. He should never, EVER be allowed to have anything to do with the MLB again. I think gambling on baseball should be an MLB life sentence with NO readmittance.
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
I agree. I don't think he'd want anything to do with baseball after being inducted anyway.
Rose only betting on his own team doesn't mean shit ... if he bet on one night's game, he could blow out his bullpen, pulling out EVERY stop to win that game ... and then the following night, his team is worse off for it.
Or, he could hold back some guys one night thinking he'll bet on the Reds the following night.
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
Im not sure if I feel he should be in the hall or not. However, baseball does have a concrete rule in place, used with precedent.
I hate Selig. He sucks. But I say he never lets Rose in because I dont see him changing his stance on this after all this time.
Maybe the next commish will, I dont know.
Even betting for your team to win is tarnishing the game.
He bet on his team to win while he was manager. As a manager, what is his job? To win as many games as possible over 162.
However, if he drops a few $100k on a particular game on a particular night? How's he going to manage his pitching staff? Suddenly that one game has a lot more importance to him over ones he doesn't bet on.
How would you feel if you got tickets to one game, and it happened to be one on a night after he bet on his team? Maybe he left relief pitchers in too long and they are now unavailable.
It tarnishes the game worse than steroids. Roiders just want to get a competitive edge by cutting corners. At least their goal is still in line with the fans and the organization.... win. Gambling changes that and makes the waters much more muddy.
I don't think Bonds is getting in ... not for a long time.
and for the record, all these guys that did steroids, it wasn't against baseball's rules when they did it ... gambling has ALWAYS been against baseball's rules.
Steroid users have been punished by baseball's rules all along ... blame the rules/system.
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
I believe going forward they shuld put them on the same plane as gambling.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... uby/060310
Let the Juicing Begin
Competitive Integrity Is Relative.
The major argument against steroid use goes something like this: Drugs destroy competitive integrity by giving users a leg up on nonusers, thereby creating a nonlevel playing field.
Of course, our playing fields are hardly level to begin with.
Purists howl about Bonds' alleged drug use. No one says a word about his padded arm protector, a plate-crowding advantage that other hitters don't enjoy. Babe Ruth smacked 714 home runs without having to face African-American pitchers. The New York Yankees can afford more talent than the Kansas City Royals. Team Germany has better bobsled gear than Team Jamaica.
Duke basketball players get to learn from hoops savant Mike Krzyzewski, a man with his own AmEx commercial. Until his resignation last week, Duquesne players were stuck with Danny Nee, who led the team to the worst season in school history.
Should Coach K be banned, just to make things more fair?
Some say steroids are a distasteful shortcut. Not so.
They actually allow athletes to work harder and more effectively, much like a good strength coach. Others claim performance-enhancers are unnatural, which in turn raises a question: What is natural, exactly?
Is it Tiger Woods, having a Lasik operation? Pitchers throwing harder after Tommy John surgery?
Players wearing tinted contact lenses?
The banned substance EPO boosts endurance by stimulating the production of oxygen-carrying red blood cells. So does altitude training, which is why American speedskaters reportedly prepare for international competition by sleeping in oxygen-deprived rooms. Does the latter have more integrity than the former?
Jacob Sullum, the author of "Saying Yes: In Defense of Drug Use" isn't so sure. Neither am I.
"Everybody ought to be able to use the same tools," Sullum said. "But I don't see what is different in principle between steroids and anything else artificial we do to change our abilities, be it working out, diet, the various medicines people take to recover from injuries."
To put things another way: Pam Anderson is an entertainer, same as Bonds. She has patently fake breasts, bouncy, silicone-filled bags that have given her an undeniable competitive advantage over her unenhanced wannabe starlet peers.
Oddly enough, no one is demanding an asterisk be placed next to her Playmate of the Year award.
The Risks are Unknown
With the possible exception of Canseco, nobody says performance-enhancing drugs are good for your health.
But that doesn't mean they're going to kill you, either.
First and foremost, steroids aren't evil. They're medical drugs, used to treat ailments such as a body wasting away from AIDS. And like most drugs, they have side effects.
In the short term, 'roids can cause acne. They've been linked to mood swings, heart disease and liver damage. They also can shrink the testicles. Yikes.
Beyond that, Yesalis told me, medical scientists simply don't understand the long-term effects of juicing. Lyle Alzado didn't die of 'roid rage. He died of brain lymphoma, a rare form of cancer. Can steroids be used safely? Or with an acceptable level of danger?
Maybe not. But no one knows for sure. Meanwhile, one thing seems clear: ban drugs, and athletes will continue to use them; allow drugs, and those same athletes will at least be able to juice under some sort of medical supervision.
Ask yourself: better to follow a 'roid regime designed by the shady likes of Greg Anderson? Or one put together by the Mayo Clinic?
"If you could regulate and control steroid use, maybe that would be the answer to some of the problems,"said Dr. Robert Ruhling, director of the George Mason University human performance laboratory. "But you would need some sort of medical review panel, since there are such things as unethical doctors."
True enough. Malpractice would be a risk. So would health problems. But remember: Elite athletes are willing put themselves in harm's way all the time and are allowed to do so. Boxers get punched in the head. Football linemen beef up to steer-like proportions, never mind the strain on their hearts and joints. Downhill skiers risk broken bones and worse.
In everyday life, potentially addictive prescription painkillers are a big deal; in sports, they're de rigueur.
"I'm in my 60s, and I've had three concussions," said Ruhling, a former college tennis player. "Each time, I was told to not do anything for six to eight weeks. Well, sometimes those quarterbacks get thrown back in the next week."
The Kids Will Be Alright
Athletes are role models. If they use steroids, our children will follow suit. Or so we're told.
Doug Abrams has doubts. A youth hockey coach and expert panelist at the University of Rhode Island's Center for Sports Parenting, he says teens juice for the same reason adults do.
Because it works.
"They want the same performance-enhancing effect," said Abrams, a law professor at the University of Missouri. "A chance to get a college athletic scholarship."
Looking to point fingers? Forget the likes of Brian Bosworth and Palmeiro. Think overzealous parents, increasingly professional youth leagues, a culture that prizes athletic achievement above just about everything else.
Besides, even if a kid takes steroids because he idolizes Bonds, that doesn't mean Bonds should have to refrain. The man can smoke. He can patronize a strip club. He can vote, pay taxes, see an R-rated movie.
"There are things that are appropriate for adults that aren't appropriate for children," Sullum said. "I guess athletes shouldn't be driving cars, either."
Go back to Anderson, her Maxim cover-girl peers, Hollywood starlets in general. Bodies by liposuction. Bee-stung lips pumped with Botox. Magazine cover portraits, Photoshopped to the nth degree.
Who has done more psychological damage to the youth of America? A few buffed-up sluggers? Or scores of waifish supermodels, driving teenage girls to anorexia and their mothers to the nearest plastic surgeon?
Maybe President Bush can scold the cast of "Desperate Housewives" during his next State of the Union Address. Perhaps Congress should subpoena Kate Moss.
"I don't understand why athletes get this burden of being role models that no other public figures have," Sullum said. "Why more of a role model than an actor or a scientist? Everybody ought to be moral, but being an athlete doesn't impose a special burden."
We're All Hypocrites
We pop recreational Viagra. We study for exams by popping Ritalin. We shed extra pounds with gastric bypass surgery, a grisly medical procedure rife with ghastly side effects (gallstones, anemia, pulmonary embolism). We enhance ourselves on a daily basis -- for performance, for fun, for petty vanity. Because, quite frankly, we can.
"It's the American way," Ruhling said. "If I want to be in shape today, I should have been in shape yesterday. If one is good, 10 will be a lot better."
Do as we say, sports world. Not as we already do.
(Unless you're talking cow hormones. That's still pretty gross).
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Willie Mays, George Brett, Mike Schmidt, Ty Cobb, Gaylord Perry
Plus you have the segregation era, rule changes,juiced ball,etcetc
The worst part of it, imo....Players like Ken Griffey Jr, Frank Thomas and Jim Thome who are a bit overlooked with all those bloated numbers people were puttin up. Jim Thome is still damn good and there's never been a sniff a steroids around his name. he keeps climbing the HR list. Griffey was a natural and probably would be closing in on the HR record, if not for the injuries. Thomas was always one of my favorite and he was probably THE best all around hitter of the 90s.
also...
Albert Pujols is becoming the best right handed hitter of all time and it's always debated. It shouldn't be. Watch the guy... He is a cut above. Several of the great old timers(Stan the Man, Ted Williams) have said he has it.
A couple points about Rose...... Bud Sehlig idolize Bart Giamatti so I don't see him helpin get Rose in. Rose gambled on his team to win, but that's still pretty f'in illegal and definitely sacrifices the integrity of the game a ton. I think he shoulda came clean sooner and maybe he coulda been reinstated earlier. I don't think they should extend his eligibility one day.
Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealousy, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence: in other words it is war minus the shooting.
Totally agree with you on the "good guys", Thomas, Thome, and Griffey. I remember back when they were having the steriod hearings in front of Congress and Thomas remarked on how his two sisters were over 6 feet tall and he didn't need to take steroids to be big.
Pete Rose did break the rules. He bet on his own team. I thought he bet on every game, but he didn't. I was wrong. But, keep in mind, all of this was done when he was a manager. It's a shame that it destroyed what he did as a player. He was one of the best.....
I think what they're doing now about the steroid issue is fair. Give them long suspensions. As far as releasing names a few at a time from the drug tests back in 2003, cut it out. It doesn't help the game get past the steroid problem and tarnishes guys' careers. It wasn't against the rules then, so nothing can be done about it now.
Maris played 6 more games then ruth did. Take away those 6 gams and maris maybe only hits 55-60 homeruns.
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
Ruth played in a segregated league ...
not saying that do defend Maris, Metsfan ... just saying, we can play this game ALL day ...
The record books are silly. They have been for a long time.
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
Please no more books on steriods, PLEASE!
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
and until then we'll have some much more exciting sports
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Every-fucking-one is to blame and I still like baseball
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14