Springsteen did it right!

EBowie

benjs wrote:

EBowie wrote:

Ok...sounds like a pretty good idea...I was just thinking: How do you prove where your seat is? For example, you get into the venue, grab a couple beers, head to your seat and then find other people sitting in them. How does this aspect of it work?

The way it works is that when you swipe your credit card at the venue, I believe they print out your ticket and you must walk into the venue so you can't try and scalp it outside.

Thanks...I figured there was a logical explanation...it just hadn't been touched upon in this thread yet.

RyGuy

The sad truth is that if there WERE a way to eliminate scalpers, I'd like to think that it would already be implemented. I think the reason TM has created a company like TicketsNow is because "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em." The fact of the matter is that as long as demand exceeds supply, there will always be a secondary market for tickets. Scalpers have figured out a way to get around limitations before, haven't they?

RyGuy

Evolver wrote:

Understood, but it's not punishing, its just the rules. And if you think there is ANY reason why you wouldn't be able to make it, just don't buy the tickets. Same is true for a lot of other non-refundable tickets that a person could buy - travel, etc. Perhaps they could charge an additional optional fee, almost like a trip insurance type thing, so that if you think you might not be able to make it, it would allow you at least a partial refund or something. Otherwise without purchasing this "insurance" the risk is yours.

Come on, now. Do you really think that does ANYTHING to prevent scalping? All they'll do is pay for the additional insurance, and we're right back where we started.

I think people need, at the very least, the option to transfer tickets through the legitimate service they purchased them from. It makes things more complicated, but it's not fair so tell someone "Sorry you had to go out of town for a funeral, but you're still stuck with the tickets."

Moreover, what happens if your buddy buys a pair for the two of you and then he needs to leave town? Should you be screwed there too?

I love the paperless ticket system in theory, but there are too many issues that, in practice, make the consumer's life too difficult.

Ryan_WFC

BustedDownPretext wrote:

Come on, now. Do you really think that does ANYTHING to prevent scalping? All they'll do is pay for the additional insurance, and we're right back where we started.

I think people need, at the very least, the option to transfer tickets through the legitimate service they purchased them from. It makes things more complicated, but it's not fair so tell someone "Sorry you had to go out of town for a funeral, but you're still stuck with the tickets."

You have it backwards.

The "insurance" thing would mean if your plans changed, your ticket would be voided and you'd get your money back. Then Ticketmaster (or whomever) would sell it to another fan, paperless, and that person would have to present ID. No scalping possibility.

But if you allowed transfers, a scalper could scalp the ticket for $500 and "transfer" it to the guy who bought it.

No system is perfect, but paperless ensures the most amount of tickets going into the hands of actual fans for face value.

benjs

BustedDownPretext wrote:

Evolver wrote:

Understood, but it's not punishing, its just the rules. And if you think there is ANY reason why you wouldn't be able to make it, just don't buy the tickets. Same is true for a lot of other non-refundable tickets that a person could buy - travel, etc. Perhaps they could charge an additional optional fee, almost like a trip insurance type thing, so that if you think you might not be able to make it, it would allow you at least a partial refund or something. Otherwise without purchasing this "insurance" the risk is yours.

Come on, now. Do you really think that does ANYTHING to prevent scalping? All they'll do is pay for the additional insurance, and we're right back where we started.

I think people need, at the very least, the option to transfer tickets through the legitimate service they purchased them from. It makes things more complicated, but it's not fair so tell someone "Sorry you had to go out of town for a funeral, but you're still stuck with the tickets."

Moreover, what happens if your buddy buys a pair for the two of you and then he needs to leave town? Should you be screwed there too?

I love the paperless ticket system in theory, but there are too many issues that, in practice, make the consumer's life too difficult.

Paperless or not - neither solution has the ability to satisfy everyone. The reality of the situation is that, as you stated, under extenuating circumstances, people need the ability to transfer ownership of a ticket to another owner. But if you allow that, then the scalpers win, as that's all they do is transfer ownership. I think it's an idea that does have a lot of potential, but there are kinks to be worked out. Perhaps Ticketmaster could offer a service where for a small portion (well, let's be honest - they're Ticketmaster, they're not going to do this for free) the ticketholder can have the ownership changed. Or, what if Ticketmaster had a service where they issued their own identification cards? You could go to a Ticketmaster outlet, present two pieces of valid ID, give them a thumbnail sized photo of you, and have them issue a Ticketmaster ID card, to be presented to claim your tickets in lieu of a credit card.

drew0

Too many issues with this type of ticketing. What if you don't have a credit card and borrow a parent's to get the tickets - how do you get in then? What happens if you buy a ticket and end up having a business commitment that prevents you from going? You can't sell it to a friend at face value?

QFT.

I am all against regulating scalpers as they piss me off to no end, but there is no real way to prevent it in the long run without pissing just as many people off. There have been a couple times where I haven't been able to make it to a concert (or a friend wasn't able to make it) so we gave our tickets (for face value) to a friend. A death in the family, last minute business trip, children are sick, car isn't working, etc.

We'll see how it goes, but I can see this causing a lot of headaches....

slightofjeff

That's really weird. I just bought tickets to the Miley Cyrus tour and got this email:

The cops are on their way to your house as we speak, you child molestor

slightofjeff

drew0 wrote:

Too many issues with this type of ticketing. What if you don't have a credit card and borrow a parent's to get the tickets - how do you get in then? What happens if you buy a ticket and end up having a business commitment that prevents you from going? You can't sell it to a friend at face value?

QFT.

I am all against regulating scalpers as they piss me off to no end, but there is no real way to prevent it in the long run without pissing just as many people off. There have been a couple times where I haven't been able to make it to a concert (or a friend wasn't able to make it) so we gave our tickets (for face value) to a friend. A death in the family, last minute business trip, children are sick, car isn't working, etc.

We'll see how it goes, but I can see this causing a lot of headaches....

What if I wanted to buy my granpa Miley Cyrus tickets for his birthday. Am I forced to accompany him to the show? What if I have a prior commitment? What if my grandpa lives in a different state than me?

This is a horrible, horrible idea, however well-intentioned.

High Fidelity 2000

I can't imagine the line to get in at a paperless Springsteen show. I saw Tom Waits last year and it was the first time Ticketmaster had done that paperless routine (the people at the entrances have these little machines where they swipe your card, then it prints out a little receipt with your seat location on it). The lines got a little long, so you had to wait maybe 5 minutes. But this was at a little 2,000 seat theater. Not 20,000 seats. Or bigger.

Evolver

chromiam wrote:

Evolver wrote:

BustedDownPretext wrote:

There are several other threads on this exact topic...

Too many issues with this type of ticketing. What if you don't have a credit card and borrow a parent's to get the tickets - how do you get in then? What happens if you buy a ticket and end up having a business commitment that prevents you from going? You can't sell it to a friend at face value?

I'm all for preventing scalper access, but it can't be this sweeping. There are lots of situations where people buy tickets legitimately and are not able to attend - you can't punish them for that.

Understood, but it's not punishing, its just the rules. And if you think there is ANY reason why you wouldn't be able to make it, just don't buy the tickets. Same is true for a lot of other non-refundable tickets that a person could buy - travel, etc. Perhaps they could charge an additional optional fee, almost like a trip insurance type thing, so that if you think you might not be able to make it, it would allow you at least a partial refund or something. Otherwise without purchasing this "insurance" the risk is yours.

And as far as the "parent's credit card issue", the fact that you don't have a credit card is not the venue's problem, or anyone elses quite frankly. Bottom line, this issue is certainly nowhere near reason enough for them not to do this. The effectiveness and overall impact this would have on eliminating scalpers from the equation FAR outweighs these smaller issues, hands down.

The problem is (as mentioned above) this doesn't stop or even limit scalping. If anything, it could, create a rise in prices that are paid to scalpers since the tickets become harder to get and thus more in demand.

And how am I to know what is going on 3 months from now?? When you purchase a ticket to an event 3 months ahead of time, I would hope that you have a fairly good outlook on going. But as that time nears there could be a multitude of reasons why you can't attend and would like to pass the tickets off to someone (a friend, relative, neighbor, hell a total stranger) for free or cost or whatever... but with this system you cannot do that.

Well for that matter, what if you book a trip for 3 months from now, you don't know what might happen between now and then...but if something comes up, unless you've paid for trip insurance, you're outta luck. Its just the risk you take, unless like I said they offer some sort of ticket insurance.

And as far as how this relates to scalpers, under this new concept, the one who purchased the ticket (let's say the scalper) would have to be present AND entering the venue with their credit card at the time of the show. Any and all tickets would have to be accompanied by the credit card that was used to purchase them. So even if you bought a ticket from a scalper, it would be useless with out 1) them being there with you, and 2) them having their credit card/ID with you too.

Evolver

EBowie wrote:

Ok...sounds like a pretty good idea...I was just thinking: How do you prove where your seat is? For example, you get into the venue, grab a couple beers, head to your seat and then find other people sitting in them. How does this aspect of it work?

I think the idea is you will have a hard ticket as well, not a ticketless system as some might be suggesting, but you can't get into the venue with just a ticket. You'd likely have to 1) scan the ticket, 2) swipe the credit card used to purchase the ticket, and 3) show government ID to prove that the credit card is yours, and therefore, that you were the one who purchased it.

Jeff Murray

I agree this would make it a hassle to buy someone tickets as gifts, but how many tickets do you give as gifts in which you don't join in?

As far as not being able to use the tickets, instead of selling insurance the supplier should just offer a "re-stocking fee" and the tickets are released to the general public for purchase. Although I could see the companies offering insurance instead so that people over-react and buy it. But again no transfers, that would just open the door for scalpers.

Ticketmaster and Penn State have a Ticket-exchange program for those that cannot use their tickets. My friend gets season tickets and as usual there are some games in which he cannot attend. Using the Ticketmaster option he can sell the tickets for face-value or greater, but he does not get the money, he receives a credit towards his season tickets for the next year.

So maybe that is the answer, only credits towards future purchases?? Scalpers want cold hard cash, not credits. So if you have an unexpected event come up and you can't make the show you bought tickets to you can transfer the tickets to another person, for a fee I'm sure, and the difference is credited to your Ticketmaster account for a future purchase.

Although I just thought of a way I could get around that.... Nope no perfect system.... :oops:

blondieblue227

Do you think paperless tickets will eventually lead to cheaper ticket prices?

recent article about ticket prices:
http://www.ivykennedy.com/trash/RS7.09.htm

Ryan_WFC

blondieblue227 wrote:

Do you think paperless tickets will eventually lead to cheaper ticket prices?

It could, in theory, since some bands say part of the reason their prices are so high is that scalpers would benefit from them being lower.

RyGuy

Ryan_WFC wrote:

blondieblue227 wrote:

Do you think paperless tickets will eventually lead to cheaper ticket prices?

It could, in theory, since some bands say part of the reason their prices are so high is that scalpers would benefit from them being lower.

What bands say that? Sounds like a line of BS to me, the reality is that the HIGHER the ticket price, the LARGER the profits for scalpers.

Jeff Murray

I highly doubt it, too much Green Disease! At the rate greed is going these days everything will be sold at auction to maximize profits! Imagine ticket prices then, only the rich will be able to attend big shows. :evil:

Although there will be one hell of an underground scene.

Yellow Ledbelly

AC/DC is doing this....I saw them in January and had major concerns about how this would work, but it was great. We walked up to the woman who would normally take your tickets, I handed her my credit card, she swiped it through a scanner on her belt and the tickets shot out in about two seconds....I think it is a great thing

Ryan_WFC

BustedDownPretext wrote:

Ryan_WFC wrote:

blondieblue227 wrote:

Do you think paperless tickets will eventually lead to cheaper ticket prices?

It could, in theory, since some bands say part of the reason their prices are so high is that scalpers would benefit from them being lower.

What bands say that? Sounds like a line of BS to me, the reality is that the HIGHER the ticket price, the LARGER the profits for scalpers.

Think about it: If Pearl Jam charged $40 when the mainstream public was willing to pay $100, scalpers would reap the difference. But if Pearl Jam charged $100 right off the bat, scalpers would have to get significantly more than that to make it worth their time, and they'd have far fewer potential customers at that price.

RyGuy

Yellow Ledbelly wrote:

AC/DC is doing this....I saw them in January and had major concerns about how this would work, but it was great. We walked up to the woman who would normally take your tickets, I handed her my credit card, she swiped it through a scanner on her belt and the tickets shot out in about two seconds....I think it is a great thing

Don't get me wrong, when everything goes according to plan this idea is great, but it isn't when there are hiccups. A blanket policy like this will lead to fans being upset just the same as they are for scalpers.

Jeff Murray

Yellow Ledbelly wrote:

AC/DC is doing this....I saw them in January and had major concerns about how this would work, but it was great. We walked up to the woman who would normally take your tickets, I handed her my credit card, she swiped it through a scanner on her belt and the tickets shot out in about two seconds....I think it is a great thing

Did they match your ID to your credit card? If not, that defeats the purpose. Any Scalper can go and buy prepaid credit cards for the cost of the tickets and sell you the card and tickets. Well, at least any sophisticated scalper.