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HMV Pre-sale F**k Up

clashcityrockerclashcityrocker Posts: 39
edited August 2009 in Given To Fly (live)
A thread to collate the progress of taking HMV to task about the apalling way they handled the pre-sale. Could I ask people that have pre-sale ticket confirmation before 9am to reprint your confirmations here. Also, any other spurious BS e-mails which HMV have sent out in response to a complaint.

I realise it will do absolutely no good at all, in fact it is a bit like p*ssing in a wet suit - it will give me a nice warming feeling but nobody will really notice!!

Cheers Dewds
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  • Alis Grave NilAlis Grave Nil Posts: 247
    Cheers for posting this up Dewds, I was about to do it then dinner started to burn!! I've left various requests on other threads so like Dewds said, if you could please post up those pre-9am confirmation mails etc etc here it would be great.

    To let you all know what I have done so far, I have contacted the Agents Association with a formal complaint and request for help, I am awaiting their reply and explained that I am representing a group of fans who have had enormous problems with HMV etc this week. I have also contacted a number of friends in the industry inc at ITB to ask for advice / information. I also wonder if we pooled our complaints together we could complain to BBC Watchdog? This kind of high profile story would be ideal for them. Let's all try to discuss it here and if we are going to do anything like this, we should do it en masse for greater impact. I would like to get together a campaign / petition to ask Ebay to cap profits or at least report touts as ticket resale is, I feel sure, in breach of the conditions on the back of tickets. I don't feel we can directly change the industry but individuals such as Trent Reznor have already written blogs about this issue and we can at least feel better by making our feelings known. Obviously the best thing to do is not buy from Ebay / touts either.

    I have already complained to HMV four times, twice by email, twice by phone but this was before I heard about the second and third pre-sales / links that they did so I now need to write them an even stronger letter. I will also look around on the net for any other associations we can complain to. I am also planning to contact a legal contact in the music industry who may be able to advise.

    Onwards and upwards guys. We may not get tickets out of it but I personally feel better when I have empowered myself with a bit more knowledge about these things.
  • OlivavuOlivavu England Posts: 1,683
    A lot of people seem to be calling for HMV to sell them tickets after they were messed about, but I don't see how that can happen given that the gig has already sold out. There may be a few cancellations or error orders, but that will only sort out a few lucky people.

    Unfortunately, there are a very limited number of tickets and the majority will miss out - I had to learn that in 2006 with the Astoria. Karma paid me back for that when I got tickets for this with ease. And I am very grateful.

    It's a shame Pearl Jam didn't do three or four nights running. They'd easily sell all the tickets - I'd go to all four.
    Wembley 2000 • Reading 2006 • Paris 2006 • Wembley 2007 • Shepherds Bush 2009 • Manchester 2009 • O2 Arena 2009 • Hyde Park 2010 • Arras 2010 • Manchester 2012 • Manchester II 2012 • Leeds 2014 • Milton Keynes 2014 • Amsterdam 2018 • Amsterdam II 2018 • London 2018 • London II 2018 • Hyde Park II 2022

    http://www.last.fm/user/olivavu


  • clashcityrockerclashcityrocker Posts: 39
    Re: HMV Pre-sale F**k Up

    Postby Olivavu » Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:17 pm
    A lot of people seem to be calling for HMV to sell them tickets after they were messed about, but I don't see how that can happen given that the gig has already sold out. There may be a few cancellations or error orders, but that will only sort out a few lucky people.

    Unfortunately, there are a very limited number of tickets and the majority will miss out - I had to learn that in 2006 with the Astoria. Karma paid me back for that when I got tickets for this with ease. And I am very grateful.

    It's a shame Pearl Jam didn't do three or four nights running. They'd easily sell all the tickets - I'd go to all four.

    Not the issue dewd!

    As I said. I have no hope of getting any tickets now and wouldn't want to deprive any of the lucky fans who got a ticket. (Except obviously the touts!)

    This is about a corporate fucking up and not admitting that they fucked up. (And boy did they fuck up!). Fans still sat with tickets in their basket is totally unforgiveable. If you are running a web based ticket outlet, you must get the technology sorted out, especially for tickets which are going to be in demand as these! Once a sale is commenced, there must be a period of time during which you are able to complete the transaction. This is not different just because the sale is virtual. (Trust me, I do know a bit about this.)

    We must at least expose the flaws in the systems or else these corporate MFs will continue to exploit fans willingness (and eagerness) to but tickets online without putting the corrrect checks and balances in place.
  • OlivavuOlivavu England Posts: 1,683
    They should not have used HMV, given what has happened.

    They should have made it 10C exclusive. Simple as that.
    Wembley 2000 • Reading 2006 • Paris 2006 • Wembley 2007 • Shepherds Bush 2009 • Manchester 2009 • O2 Arena 2009 • Hyde Park 2010 • Arras 2010 • Manchester 2012 • Manchester II 2012 • Leeds 2014 • Milton Keynes 2014 • Amsterdam 2018 • Amsterdam II 2018 • London 2018 • London II 2018 • Hyde Park II 2022

    http://www.last.fm/user/olivavu


  • OlivavuOlivavu England Posts: 1,683
    Having the tickets in your basket doesn't guarantee that you will get them on many ticketing sites.

    They get confirmed when you place the final order on most sites.

    Ticketmaster's system, as much as it pains me to say it, is the best.
    Wembley 2000 • Reading 2006 • Paris 2006 • Wembley 2007 • Shepherds Bush 2009 • Manchester 2009 • O2 Arena 2009 • Hyde Park 2010 • Arras 2010 • Manchester 2012 • Manchester II 2012 • Leeds 2014 • Milton Keynes 2014 • Amsterdam 2018 • Amsterdam II 2018 • London 2018 • London II 2018 • Hyde Park II 2022

    http://www.last.fm/user/olivavu


  • pdalowskypdalowsky Doncaster,UK Posts: 15,096
    Guys it has to added also that the main complaint surely is the misrep angle to this,the misselling of the preorder for the exclusive presale that in reality was available to everyone.

    What I found annoying was the inability on hmvs part to deal with simple questions, they totally ignore them then send out a generic reply full if inaccurate info and basically lies. Then a failure to bother replying to further emails. Staff giving different explanations each time etc

    this will not magic more tickets but it may generate an apology rather than a lame attempt to pass off all the problems as a demand issue

    I do sympathise with hmv, demand obviously is a huge issue here, but come on they could have followed their own rules and utilised a little stock control then all this wouldn't be happening

    And really if pj played this 4 times - we'd all be ad nuts about making every single one if them!!!
  • Alis Grave NilAlis Grave Nil Posts: 247
    pdalowsky wrote:
    Guys it has to added also that the main complaint surely is the misrep angle to this,the misselling of the preorder for the exclusive presale that in reality was available to everyone.

    What I found annoying was the inability on hmvs part to deal with simple questions, they totally ignore them then send out a generic reply full if inaccurate info and basically lies. Then a failure to bother replying to further emails. Staff giving different explanations each time etc

    this will not magic more tickets but it may generate an apology rather than a lame attempt to pass off all the problems as a demand issue

    I do sympathise with hmv, demand obviously is a huge issue here, but come on they could have followed their own rules and utilised a little stock control then all this wouldn't be happening

    And really if pj played this 4 times - we'd all be ad nuts about making every single one if them!!!

    Couldn't have put it better myself! I don't expect HMV to magic up tickets (even though mine are still in my basket) but the lame mail I receieved from them was a joke and the fact that they told me on MONDAY that I would receive a new link but then didn't get one despite at least two more 'sales', is a total joke. I really think we have a case for BBC Watchdog much as I hate them (they are sharks too)
  • OlivavuOlivavu England Posts: 1,683
    I don't expect that Pearl Jam will use HMV again.
    Wembley 2000 • Reading 2006 • Paris 2006 • Wembley 2007 • Shepherds Bush 2009 • Manchester 2009 • O2 Arena 2009 • Hyde Park 2010 • Arras 2010 • Manchester 2012 • Manchester II 2012 • Leeds 2014 • Milton Keynes 2014 • Amsterdam 2018 • Amsterdam II 2018 • London 2018 • London II 2018 • Hyde Park II 2022

    http://www.last.fm/user/olivavu


  • chimechime Posts: 7,839
    I've tried to get tickets in quite a few in demand pre-sales and ticket on sales and unless it is done through ticketmaster all the ticket sites seem to end up with this kind of mess. They just can't handle the traffic.

    Also ticketmaster is the only one that I know that actually does reserve the tickets for you. As we've seen both ticketweb and hmv don't ... and I know from experience that seetickets don't.

    For the Astoria on-sale up until the day of the gig seetickets website would randomly show that they had tickets available and you could go through the whole process ... inputting all your details to then be told they couldn't fulfil your order and give you a number to call ... that would tell you there hadn't been tickets available it was just a glitch in their website ... but try seeing that they were onsale and resisting the urge to input all your details :oops:

    I know it's frustrating but I know discussing it with friends in the days running up to the sale this is what we were expecting to happen.

    From reading the Other Music section it appears last weeks NIN pre-sale was even more of a disaster.
    So are we strangers now? Like rock and roll and the radio?
  • OlivavuOlivavu England Posts: 1,683
    I had the same thing with the Astoria gig...just kept trying and trying because I didn't want to give touts my hard-earned.
    Wembley 2000 • Reading 2006 • Paris 2006 • Wembley 2007 • Shepherds Bush 2009 • Manchester 2009 • O2 Arena 2009 • Hyde Park 2010 • Arras 2010 • Manchester 2012 • Manchester II 2012 • Leeds 2014 • Milton Keynes 2014 • Amsterdam 2018 • Amsterdam II 2018 • London 2018 • London II 2018 • Hyde Park II 2022

    http://www.last.fm/user/olivavu


  • eldarion75eldarion75 Posts: 2,488
    I complained to three different HMV email addresses not having received a single link and after preordering the record...I got an apology and a link to buy tickets from the guy but he couldnt guarantee there'd be any there by the time I used the link. There was luckily. I'd say keep checking during the week..some kid here in Ireland got tickets at 5am friday morning! so they are popping up as CC cancellations come through..keep at it..
  • BrianoBriano Posts: 53
    eldarion75 wrote:
    I complained to three different HMV email addresses not having received a single link and after preordering the record...I got an apology and a link to buy tickets from the guy but he couldnt guarantee there'd be any there by the time I used the link. There was luckily. I'd say keep checking during the week..some kid here in Ireland got tickets at 5am friday morning! so they are popping up as CC cancellations come through..keep at it..


    thanks for the words of hope man
  • Alis Grave NilAlis Grave Nil Posts: 247
    eldarion75 wrote:
    I complained to three different HMV email addresses not having received a single link and after preordering the record...I got an apology and a link to buy tickets from the guy but he couldnt guarantee there'd be any there by the time I used the link. There was luckily. I'd say keep checking during the week..some kid here in Ireland got tickets at 5am friday morning! so they are popping up as CC cancellations come through..keep at it..

    Thanks mate :) Will keep trying :)
  • eldarion75eldarion75 Posts: 2,488
    Got this from consumerdirect in relation to ticketweb not giving me tickets but still having my money:

    Thank you for your enquiry to Consumer Direct dated 23rd July 2009. Your reference number for this case is LR 530682 and should be quoted in all further correspondence regarding this case.



    Based on the information you have provided the key legal points in response to your enquiry are as follows:



    While it would appear that the contract to supply tickets to you has been formed it would seem that as the site crashed while you were making the booking the trader as no knowledge of the transaction.



    Under such circumstances the trader may be in breach of contract and would be obliged to either supply you with the tickets for which they have taken payment or simply return you to the position you were in before the breach occurred by refunding your money in full. There would be no obligation on him to take one action over another.



    In the first instance, it would be a good idea to check any terms and conditions that the trader has in place. By going ahead with the service, you would legally be regarded as having read and agreed to abide by the terms and conditions. As such, you should check these to find out what obligations you and the trader have in this contract.



    On a practical level it would be a good idea to write a formal letter of complaint to the trader in question, giving a full outline of the events to date and the remedy you are seeking. You should state that you are making ‘time of the essence’ and give the trader a time limit within which you expect a written response, such as seven working days. It is advisable to gain proof of postage for any letter you send and retain copies for your records.



    The disadvantage of email is that it is not generally possible to prove that your email has been received unless you obtain a response.



    If you require any further advice or information about this case, please do not hesitate to contact Consumer Direct on 08454 04 05 06 quoting the case reference number.



    Thank you for your enquiry.



    Peter

    Consumer Direct London
  • Alis Grave NilAlis Grave Nil Posts: 247
    Hi everyone. This is what I received today from the Agent's Association - I'm going to look at the links they have provided and by all means, go ahead and do so too. I'll post this on all the threads we have discussed it on:


    Dear Beverly

    I am very sorry but we are not able to help directly with your problem.

    The government department that deals with matters concerning ticketing/ticket touts etc is the Department for Culture, Media & Sport web homepage: www.dcms.gov.uk
    You can email a query via that website if you wish.

    You could also try the Concert Promoters Association in the first instance as I am sure they will be able to advise you on this matter.
    CPA Tel: 01491 575060
    http://www.concertpromotersassociation.co.uk/

    I hope this is of help to you.

    Kind regards

    Carol Richards
    Administrator
    The Agents' Association (Great Britain)
    54 Keyes House, Dolphin Square,
    London, SW1V 3NA
    The Entertainment Agents' Association Ltd
    trading as The Agents' Association (Great Britain)
    Registered in England Number 228124
    Tel: +44 (0)20 7834 0515
    Fax: +44 (0)20 7821 0261
    Email: <!-- e --><a href="mailto:association@agents-uk.com">association@agents-uk.com</a><!-- e -->
    Web: www.agents-uk.com
    Original Message
  • tenbobtenbob Posts: 66
    HEY!

    Add me to your list of a collective constructive complaint Its not about if you managed to get tickets or not, its about us music fans been fucked over every time a decent gig occurs. I emailed HMV but only got a generic response saying they would get back to me in 48 hours, Im still waiting for an explanation.

    I'd also like 10c or the band to explain their marketing stratergy and why this wasn't fan club only? Maybe if we all emiled to ask?

    All we want is some truth, Just GIMMIE SOME TRUTH!

    Voices are meant to be heard and if we are all singing off the same hymn sheet, then surley someone will hear our song and give us the answers. The government needs to sort this out (Don't hold your breath) and online touts need to be regulated, having to pay 10 times more than face value is ridiculous.
  • icemanapicemanap Posts: 406
    HMV worked great for me. Got the link, got in early to get tickets, it took my credit card details and then kicked me out of the system. I had them in the basket for ages but could never process them. Couldn't get through to the helpline. Backspacer now cancelled, me not very happy in the slightest.
    :D Rock on!!!! :D
    Seen Pearl Jam 4 times in London, once in Manchester, as well as an Eddie show at Hammersmith.
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    icemanap wrote:
    Backspacer now cancelled, me not very happy in the slightest.

    Call me paranoid, but I'm waiting until I receive my tickets before cancelling!
  • tenbobtenbob Posts: 66
    redrock wrote:
    icemanap wrote:
    Backspacer now cancelled, me not very happy in the slightest.

    Call me paranoid, but I'm waiting until I receive my tickets before cancelling!

    As long as you remember to cancel it. Don't give those fuckers your hard earned cash, get to your local indipendent store!
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    Is the main issue that they put them on sale early? Because, to be fair, I presumed my PC clock was accurate, I naively thought that it would be accurate since it's always connecting to the internet. However, I downloaded a simple time-sync program, and found that my PC clock was out by nearly five minutes! Presumably, when an email is received, the time stamp comes from your own PC rather than the one it is sent from? Therefore it is at least possible that some people's PC clocks may have been slow, meaning that they could be missing those vital minutes when the tickets go on sale. And that doesn't even take into account the fact that some people's internet connections may be on the slow side too which is no doubt a hinderance.

    I'm not defending HMV, cause I know they messed up by putting the ticket link on their main page too. However, I have come to realise with getting tickets to these shows, that preparation is key. That's not to say you will necessarily get tickets, but it definitely pays to be on the ball. Contrary to what a lot of people have said here, I've had my best luck with tickets through Ticketweb (Pumpkins at SBE, KOL at Brixton and now PJ at SBE), and have NEVER had luck with getting those high-profile gig tickets through Ticketmaster's website. All these sites work slightly differently, so it's good to check them out in advance to see how the order process works. HMV was different because it's pretty new, but I guess we will all learn from this that you've got to keep refreshing the page before hand.
  • Alis Grave NilAlis Grave Nil Posts: 247
    We have several issues with HMV - early sale, sale to general public not just unique link, missing links that never arrived, promises to send further links that never arrived then a couple of further ticket sales that we were not told about. That's aside from tickets going through but then being denied, tickets STILL in online baskets even now etc etc. And their shocking lack of response to complaints / queries and general lies that they have told many of us.

    As for Ticketweb - well, I refreshed my browser from 8.15am to 9.20am and it did not show tickets as on sale until 9.10am despite others getting them before 9am. I do not share a net connection with anyone, I have an up to the minute brand new high end laptop and at least 10mg broadband solely for my own use. Hmm, and Ticketweb have taken monies from some of us in duplicate and even triplicate yet said they would not provide tickets, or in some cases, refused to acknowledge the fact they have even TAKEN money from people's accounts despite evidence to the contrary :)

    In short, none of these companies were able to provide adequate service to cope with high demand which is not completely unexpected but it is the way they have lied and handled things that is the main problem :)
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    So would you be happier if they just held their hands up and said their systems weren't adequate enough to cope with demand? I guess their responses are just them trying to offer some sort of tangible reason as to why some people weren't lucky, when in fact it could have been a number of things, and more likely a combination of reasons. In all honesty I don't think such a system exists that would guarantee plain sailing for everyone, these things are unfortunately a complete lottery. Imagine if it all worked perfectly and everyone managed to put tickets in their basket - there is still a limited number of tickets, so some kind of error message has to come up. I appreciate all the points you've made about monies being taken and the screw up with putting the link up on the main page. However, none of this changes the fact that there were hundreds, possibly thousands of people all vying for a very limited supply of tickets.

    As for Ticketweb, again a complete lottery. I logged on to their site at 7:50 and was instantly put in a queue (the same queue screen I was taken to the night before when I checked the link). I have no idea why I was lucky when others weren't, perhaps because I got on that bit earlier. Regardless, it all boils down to the fact that online booking systems are not infallible. As you said, you were refreshing from 8:20, so the fact they possilby went on sale early shouldn't have made a difference. I'm really not trying to piss you off, I'm just trying to point out that even if it all ran smoothly, nobody is guaranteed tickets.
  • jrdjrd Posts: 3,060
    facepollution wrote:
    Is the main issue that they put them on sale early? Because, to be fair, I presumed my PC clock was accurate, I naively thought that it would be accurate since it's always connecting to the internet. However, I downloaded a simple time-sync program, and found that my PC clock was out by nearly five minutes! Presumably, when an email is received, the time stamp comes from your own PC rather than the one it is sent from? Therefore it is at least possible that some people's PC clocks may have been slow, meaning that they could be missing those vital minutes when the tickets go on sale. And that doesn't even take into account the fact that some people's internet connections may be on the slow side too which is no doubt a hinderance.

    nah. tickets were definitely sold before 09:00, we're all synchronised with internet clocks here at the university where i work and people were posting 'got some' messages on the board while i was still in the queue.
    Oh yeah? Well, I've had about enough of morons and halfwits, dolts, dunces, dullards and dumbbells - and you chowderhead yokel, you blithering hayseed, you - you've had enough of me?
  • Alis Grave NilAlis Grave Nil Posts: 247
    facepollution wrote:
    So would you be happier if they just held their hands up and said their systems weren't adequate enough to cope with demand? I guess their responses are just them trying to offer some sort of tangible reason as to why some people weren't lucky, when in fact it could have been a number of things, and more likely a combination of reasons. In all honesty I don't think such a system exists that would guarantee plain sailing for everyone, these things are unfortunately a complete lottery. Imagine if it all worked perfectly and everyone managed to put tickets in their basket - there is still a limited number of tickets, so some kind of error message has to come up. I appreciate all the points you've made about monies being taken and the screw up with putting the link up on the main page. However, none of this changes the fact that there were hundreds, possibly thousands of people all vying for a very limited supply of tickets.

    As for Ticketweb, again a complete lottery. I logged on to their site at 7:50 and was instantly put in a queue (the same queue screen I was taken to the night before when I checked the link). I have no idea why I was lucky when others weren't, perhaps because I got on that bit earlier. Regardless, it all boils down to the fact that online booking systems are not infallible. As you said, you were refreshing from 8:20, so the fact they possilby went on sale early shouldn't have made a difference. I'm really not trying to piss you off, I'm just trying to point out that even if it all ran smoothly, nobody is guaranteed tickets.

    Oh totally, most of us on here have agreed we know there were most likely thousands of peeps after just a couple of thousand tickets :) But it is the lies and misleading that have upset most of us, even the basket stuff etc can be put down to understandable glitches. We are mostly all just peeved that tickets were sold earlier than agreed and that nearly all of us who were promised second / third unique links didn't get them. Not to mention their complete lack of response to many individuals who contacted them by phone / mail. It was always going to be a miracle getting the tickets BUT some of the stuff they have done is actually shocking. Especially considering some touts miraculously had their tickets on sale on Ebay even before the agreed pre-sale to those who had pre-ordered the album. If you look back through the several threads on here, not just this one, you will see many many fans with the same story as I have, it's not just me :-)
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    jrd wrote:
    nah. tickets were definitely sold before 09:00, we're all synchronised with internet clocks here at the university where i work and people were posting 'got some' messages on the board while i was still in the queue.

    Ok, so what do you suppose gave some people the edge over others? Or maybe HMV's clocks weren't synchronised?!
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    goddess wrote:
    Oh totally, most of us on here have agreed we know there were most likely thousands of peeps after just a couple of thousand tickets :) But it is the lies and misleading that have upset most of us, even the basket stuff etc can be put down to understandable glitches. We are mostly all just peeved that tickets were sold earlier than agreed and that nearly all of us who were promised second / third unique links didn't get them. Not to mention their complete lack of response to many individuals who contacted them by phone / mail. It was always going to be a miracle getting the tickets BUT some of the stuff they have done is actually shocking. Especially considering some touts miraculously had their tickets on sale on Ebay even before the agreed pre-sale to those who had pre-ordered the album. If you look back through the several threads on here, not just this one, you will see many many fans with the same story as I have, it's not just me :-)

    Yeah I have no idea how touts get their hands on tickets so easily, they have to have some inside information. Either that, or they have learned exactly how each ticket site works and how to maximise their chances of getting tickets. I suppose HMV are just trying to cover their backs, they obviously know they've messed up, by the sheer number of complaints they've received.
  • Alis Grave NilAlis Grave Nil Posts: 247
    Yeah I have tried to figure it out a hundred times over and my only conclusion is that they have some kind inside deal going on, or at least some must have. A couple of times they had the tickets online before even the pressale started so they must have them from somewhere. An industry friend said they could just be selling an IOU as it were, i.e knowing they would get tickets on the day from a mate at the ticket place for example, so they could put them up for sale a day early online, but some of them have so many for sale in one good, it just beggars belief.
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    I guess you have to remember that they make a living from touting, so they probably invest a lot of time and effort into finding out how to get the right contacts and insider info. They're still scummy fuckers though!
  • arakiasarakias Posts: 281
    tenbob wrote:
    As long as you remember to cancel it. Don't give those fuckers your hard earned cash, get to your local indipendent store!

    Or buy it from the 10 Club directly?
  • pdalowskypdalowsky Doncaster,UK Posts: 15,096
    another email from HMV, again missing all the issues I mentioned, I officially give up, I'm going anyway....corporates are a joke....


    Thank you for your response in relation to the Pearl Jam pre-sale ticket offer.

    In view of comments from customers, we would like to confirm that we have verified transactions with our ticketing provider, and in accordance with the time on their servers, no orders were processed for the Pearl Jam ticket offer before 9am. As previously stated, any issues experienced were due to the popularity of the offer, and the volume of people trying to purchase tickets.


    We would like to assure you that we are taking all feedback from customers seriously, and will be addressing any issues with our ticketing partner to ensure that future ticket promotions with major bands run smoothly.


    Kind Regards,
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