70 percent of the antibioticsin US are fed to farm animals

Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
edited August 2009 in A Moving Train
at least that's the estimate....

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/24/opinion/24fr3.html

Farms and Antibiotics
Published: July 23, 2009

The Union of Concerned Scientists estimates that 70 percent of the antibiotics used in this country are fed to farm animals. These animals do not receive these drugs the way humans do — as discrete short-term doses. Agricultural antibiotics are a regular feed supplement intended to increase growth and lessen the chance of infection in crowded, industrial farms.

These practices are putting both humans and animals increasingly at risk. In an environment where antibiotics are omnipresent, as they are in industrial agriculture, antibiotic-resistant strains of diseases quickly develop, reducing the effectiveness of common drugs like penicillin and tetracycline.

Despite that danger, the Food and Drug Administration had been reluctant to restrict routine agricultural use of antibiotics. The F.D.A.’s principal deputy commissioner, Dr. Joshua Sharfstein, signaled a welcome change in direction recently, testifying on behalf of a new bill, the Preservation of Antibiotics for Medical Treatment Act. It would allow veterinarians to prescribe antibiotics to treat individual animals or prevent disease, but it would sharply restrict the routine feeding of antibiotics to farm animals — the practice most closely associated with the development of drug-resistant pathogens.

The legislation is drawing strong opposition from the farm lobby since the restrictions would make it much harder for industrial farms to crowd thousands of animals together in confined, inhumane and unhealthy quarters. But the current practice is dangerously self-defeating: treating more and more animals with less and less effective drugs and in turn creating resistant strains of disease that persist in the soil and water. Congress should stop this now before an entire class of drugs becomes useless.
don't compete; coexist

what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    yeah apparently its the corn. a cow hasn't evolved to digest it all the way, if i remember correctly.

    grass fed beef just doesn't taste as good.
  • weenieweenie Posts: 1,623
    at least that's the estimate....

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/24/opinion/24fr3.html

    Farms and Antibiotics
    Published: July 23, 2009

    The Union of Concerned Scientists estimates that 70 percent of the antibiotics used in this country are fed to farm animals. These animals do not receive these drugs the way humans do — as discrete short-term doses. Agricultural antibiotics are a regular feed supplement intended to increase growth and lessen the chance of infection in crowded, industrial farms.

    These practices are putting both humans and animals increasingly at risk. In an environment where antibiotics are omnipresent, as they are in industrial agriculture, antibiotic-resistant strains of diseases quickly develop, reducing the effectiveness of common drugs like penicillin and tetracycline.

    Despite that danger, the Food and Drug Administration had been reluctant to restrict routine agricultural use of antibiotics. The F.D.A.’s principal deputy commissioner, Dr. Joshua Sharfstein, signaled a welcome change in direction recently, testifying on behalf of a new bill, the Preservation of Antibiotics for Medical Treatment Act. It would allow veterinarians to prescribe antibiotics to treat individual animals or prevent disease, but it would sharply restrict the routine feeding of antibiotics to farm animals — the practice most closely associated with the development of drug-resistant pathogens.

    The legislation is drawing strong opposition from the farm lobby since the restrictions would make it much harder for industrial farms to crowd thousands of animals together in confined, inhumane and unhealthy quarters. But the current practice is dangerously self-defeating: treating more and more animals with less and less effective drugs and in turn creating resistant strains of disease that persist in the soil and water. Congress should stop this now before an entire class of drugs becomes useless.

    Antibiotics are one of the shortcuts that the food industry uses to ensure it's bottom line. Let's hope this new bill finds a way to get passed. Most carnivores aren't aware of the risks associated with what they and their families ingest. The use of antibiotics is just the tip of the iceberg as far as I'm concerned. There are a lot of issues, aside from farm animals, that need overhauling within the food industry like GMOs - IMO.
    ~I want to realize brotherhood or identity not merely with the beings called human, but I want to realize identity with all life, even with such things as crawl upon earth.~
    Mohandas K. Gandhi

    ~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
    Henry David Thoreau
  • noahgendanoahgenda Posts: 63
    i love grass fed beef and buy it when i can just my 2 cents. i think grain fed beef was designed by hitler himself
  • TravisTheSkyTravisTheSky Posts: 615
    It was the routine use of antibiotics in cattle which caused e coli to mutate into the deadly form that is prevalent today. It's hard to believe, but e coli was nearly harmless just three decades ago. Now, small children and elderly people are at risk of death from food poisoning by the bacterium.

    I've spent years trying to figure out why I suddenly developed allergies to many common foods around age 20. It appears that frequent antibiotic prescriptions throughout my teens played a big role.
    "May you live in interesting times."
  • weenieweenie Posts: 1,623
    It was the routine use of antibiotics in cattle which caused e coli to mutate into the deadly form that is prevalent today. It's hard to believe, but e coli was nearly harmless just three decades ago. Now, small children and elderly people are at risk of death from food poisoning by the bacterium.

    I've spent years trying to figure out why I suddenly developed allergies to many common foods around age 20. It appears that frequent antibiotic prescriptions throughout my teens played a big role.

    Many of the chemicals in food additives such as msg (a preservative and taste enhancer also known by many other names) cause a myriad of allergic and sensitivity reactions - some deadly. It's my own personal belief that they are also a source of some of the cancers that are prevalent in America. At one point, msg was banned from use by restaurants and other public food preparation entities because there was no way to warn the consumer, but the restaurant industry got that ruling overturned in short order. :?
    ~I want to realize brotherhood or identity not merely with the beings called human, but I want to realize identity with all life, even with such things as crawl upon earth.~
    Mohandas K. Gandhi

    ~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
    Henry David Thoreau
  • Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    weenie wrote:
    It was the routine use of antibiotics in cattle which caused e coli to mutate into the deadly form that is prevalent today. It's hard to believe, but e coli was nearly harmless just three decades ago. Now, small children and elderly people are at risk of death from food poisoning by the bacterium.

    I've spent years trying to figure out why I suddenly developed allergies to many common foods around age 20. It appears that frequent antibiotic prescriptions throughout my teens played a big role.

    Many of the chemicals in food additives such as msg (a preservative and taste enhancer also known by many other names) cause a myriad of allergic and sensitivity reactions - some deadly. It's my own personal belief that they are also a source of some of the cancers that are prevalent in America. At one point, msg was banned from use by restaurants and other public food preparation entities because there was no way to warn the consumer, but the restaurant industry got that ruling overturned in short order. :?


    part of the reason they have to use so much antibiotics is to treat the infections cows get from RBGH, which creates pus that can get in the milk.

    aspartame can also be bad for you

    Fall 1967-- Dr. Harold Waisman, a biochemist at the University of Wisconsin, conducts aspartame safety tests on infant monkeys on behalf of the Searle Company. Of the seven monkeys that were being fed aspartame mixed with milk, one dies and five others have grand mal seizures.

    March 24, 1976-- Turner and Olney's petition triggers an FDA investigation of the laboratory practices of aspartame's manufacturer, G.D. Searle. The investigation finds Searle's testing procedures shoddy, full of inaccuracies and "manipulated" test data. The investigators report they "had never seen anything as bad as Searle's testing."

    January 26, 1977-- While the grand jury probe is underway, Sidley & Austin, the law firm representing Searle, begins job negotiations with the U.S. Attorney in charge of the investigation, Samuel Skinner.

    July 1, 1977-- Samuel Skinner leaves the U.S. Attorney's office and takes a job with Searle's law firm. (see Jan. 26th)

    December 8, 1977-- U.S. Attorney Skinner's withdrawal and resignation stalls the Searle grand jury investigation for so long that the statue of limitations on the aspartame charges runs out. The grand jury investigation is dropped.

    http://www.rense.com/general33/legal.htm
    lot's of other interesting things about searle's animals tests.

    it's also interesting to note Rumsfeld became the chairman of the pharmaceutical company that made it when they were having trouble getting FDA approval, they also got that big avian flu contract a few years ago
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • weenieweenie Posts: 1,623
    weenie wrote:
    It was the routine use of antibiotics in cattle which caused e coli to mutate into the deadly form that is prevalent today. It's hard to believe, but e coli was nearly harmless just three decades ago. Now, small children and elderly people are at risk of death from food poisoning by the bacterium.

    I've spent years trying to figure out why I suddenly developed allergies to many common foods around age 20. It appears that frequent antibiotic prescriptions throughout my teens played a big role.

    Many of the chemicals in food additives such as msg (a preservative and taste enhancer also known by many other names) cause a myriad of allergic and sensitivity reactions - some deadly. It's my own personal belief that they are also a source of some of the cancers that are prevalent in America. At one point, msg was banned from use by restaurants and other public food preparation entities because there was no way to warn the consumer, but the restaurant industry got that ruling overturned in short order. :?


    part of the reason they have to use so much antibiotics is to treat the infections cows get from RBGH, which creates pus that can get in the milk.

    aspartame can also be bad for you

    Fall 1967-- Dr. Harold Waisman, a biochemist at the University of Wisconsin, conducts aspartame safety tests on infant monkeys on behalf of the Searle Company. Of the seven monkeys that were being fed aspartame mixed with milk, one dies and five others have grand mal seizures.

    March 24, 1976-- Turner and Olney's petition triggers an FDA investigation of the laboratory practices of aspartame's manufacturer, G.D. Searle. The investigation finds Searle's testing procedures shoddy, full of inaccuracies and "manipulated" test data. The investigators report they "had never seen anything as bad as Searle's testing."

    January 26, 1977-- While the grand jury probe is underway, Sidley & Austin, the law firm representing Searle, begins job negotiations with the U.S. Attorney in charge of the investigation, Samuel Skinner.

    July 1, 1977-- Samuel Skinner leaves the U.S. Attorney's office and takes a job with Searle's law firm. (see Jan. 26th)

    December 8, 1977-- U.S. Attorney Skinner's withdrawal and resignation stalls the Searle grand jury investigation for so long that the statue of limitations on the aspartame charges runs out. The grand jury investigation is dropped.

    http://www.rense.com/general33/legal.htm
    lot's of other interesting things about searle's animals tests.

    it's also interesting to note Rumsfeld became the chairman of the pharmaceutical company that made it when they were having trouble getting FDA approval, they also got that big avian flu contract a few years ago

    And no one feels badly about putting this crap in sodas, coffee sweeteners, sweetened treats that people, especially children, ingest everyday..... that's such a foreign concept for me. What the hell is wrong with these people? Never mind, I know the answer. It's the same thing that creates such a fucked up food industry overall - greed. To find out that Rumsfeld is connected to such an unconscionable industry makes total sense.
    ~I want to realize brotherhood or identity not merely with the beings called human, but I want to realize identity with all life, even with such things as crawl upon earth.~
    Mohandas K. Gandhi

    ~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
    Henry David Thoreau
  • arthurdentarthurdent Posts: 969
    It was the routine use of antibiotics in cattle which caused e coli to mutate into the deadly form that is prevalent today. It's hard to believe, but e coli was nearly harmless just three decades ago. Now, small children and elderly people are at risk of death from food poisoning by the bacterium.

    Actually, several of the recent e-coli outbreaks have been linked to ORGANIC producers. Where do you think the "organic" "fertilizer" comes from?
    Rock me Jesus, roll me Lord...
    Wash me in the blood of Rock & Roll
  • Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    weenie wrote:
    And no one feels badly about putting this crap in sodas, coffee sweeteners, sweetened treats that people, especially children, ingest everyday..... that's such a foreign concept for me. What the hell is wrong with these people? Never mind, I know the answer. It's the same thing that creates such a fucked up food industry overall - greed. To find out that Rumsfeld is connected to such an unconscionable industry makes total sense.


    the FDA is bought and sold. an exec and one of the lawyers from Monsanto both took jobs in the FDA and had part in approving RBGH.
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • gabersgabers Posts: 2,787
    After reading "An Omnivore's Dilemna" my eyes were totally opened. Among other changes in my lifestyle, I buy grass fed organic beef whenever possible. If more farms were ran like Joel Salatin's the world would be a much better, healthier, and more humane place.
  • weenieweenie Posts: 1,623
    gabers wrote:
    After reading "An Omnivore's Dilemna" my eyes were totally opened. Among other changes in my lifestyle, I buy grass fed organic beef whenever possible. If more farms were ran like Joel Salatin's the world would be a much better, healthier, and more humane place.


    Kudos for making the humane choice! :D
    I admire people who take the extra step to do what they feel is right, and is both healthy and humane. I think it makes you a better person when you make those choices.
    ~I want to realize brotherhood or identity not merely with the beings called human, but I want to realize identity with all life, even with such things as crawl upon earth.~
    Mohandas K. Gandhi

    ~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
    Henry David Thoreau
  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,977
    gabers wrote:
    After reading "An Omnivore's Dilemna" my eyes were totally opened. Among other changes in my lifestyle, I buy grass fed organic beef whenever possible. If more farms were ran like Joel Salatin's the world would be a much better, healthier, and more humane place.


    i'll have to look into this book. idk anything about joel salatin's farming practices, but if it is a free-range farm and all.....i agree. i am really going to have to try and see how we can fit organic in our already crazy expensive food budget, and also to convince my husband of it. ;)
    Stay with me...
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  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    really ... the men that run monsanto should be shot up with their fucking creations ...

    anyways - another factor in organically raised meat is the slaughter process ... considered to be more humane - it also affects the taste as the hormone released by animals in factory farms actually toughens the meat ...
  • arthurdentarthurdent Posts: 969
    gabers wrote:
    After reading "An Omnivore's Dilemna" my eyes were totally opened. Among other changes in my lifestyle, I buy grass fed organic beef whenever possible. If more farms were ran like Joel Salatin's the world would be a much better, healthier, and more humane place.


    i'll have to look into this book. idk anything about joel salatin's farming practices, but if it is a free-range farm and all.....i agree. i am really going to have to try and see how we can fit organic in our already crazy expensive food budget, and also to convince my husband of it. ;)


    90% of the whole "organic" movement is just marketing bullshit and has absolutely no basis in any scientific reality.
    Rock me Jesus, roll me Lord...
    Wash me in the blood of Rock & Roll
  • arthurdentarthurdent Posts: 969
    polaris_x wrote:
    another factor in organically raised meat is the slaughter process ... considered to be more humane - it also affects the taste as the hormone released by animals in factory farms actually toughens the meat ...

    A big kosher beef plant in Iowa got busted awhile back for inhumane slaughter practices and hiring illegal imigrants. The plant eventually went bankrupt and closed.
    Rock me Jesus, roll me Lord...
    Wash me in the blood of Rock & Roll
  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,977
    polaris_x wrote:
    anyways - another factor in organically raised meat is the slaughter process ... considered to be more humane - it also affects the taste as the hormone released by animals in factory farms actually toughens the meat ...



    well THAT is a biggie.
    however, these organic farms...are they also free-range? animals allowed to roam, or are the completely shut in, limited/no space, like facory farming? i must admit i haven't looked into it that in depth b/c they prices at the market usually get me like this :shock: ...and thus, i haven't researched as fully, as of yet...





    and arthur.....that is what my husband always says. and sure, perahps there ARe some abuses, no doubt....human beings are always out to make out better for themselves, but overall there ARE criteria in place, so i would think the vast majority of organic and/or free range raised stock is just that.
    Stay with me...
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    I am myself like you somehow


  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    well THAT is a biggie.
    however, these organic farms...are they also free-range? animals allowed to roam, or are the completely shut in, limited/no space, like facory farming? i must admit i haven't looked into it that in depth b/c they prices at the market usually get me like this :shock: ...and thus, i haven't researched as fully, as of yet...

    well ... the term organic should denote free range as well ... the way things work tho - i would not be surprised if a company abused vague regulation on the labeling to promote themselves as organic ...

    the best thing to do is to go to farmers markets and talk to the farmers/butchers you buy your meat from ... they will give you the low down ...
  • arthurdentarthurdent Posts: 969
    polaris_x wrote:
    anyways - another factor in organically raised meat is the slaughter process ... considered to be more humane - it also affects the taste as the hormone released by animals in factory farms actually toughens the meat ...



    well THAT is a biggie.
    however, these organic farms...are they also free-range? animals allowed to roam, or are the completely shut in, limited/no space, like facory farming? i must admit i haven't looked into it that in depth b/c they prices at the market usually get me like this :shock: ...and thus, i haven't researched as fully, as of yet...





    and arthur.....that is what my husband always says. and sure, perahps there ARe some abuses, no doubt....human beings are always out to make out better for themselves, but overall there ARE criteria in place, so i would think the vast majority of organic and/or free range raised stock is just that.


    Also, keep in mind that it takes alot more acreage per head to feed free-range livestock than it does in a confined operation.
    Rock me Jesus, roll me Lord...
    Wash me in the blood of Rock & Roll
  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,977
    edited July 2009
    arthurdent wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    anyways - another factor in organically raised meat is the slaughter process ... considered to be more humane - it also affects the taste as the hormone released by animals in factory farms actually toughens the meat ...



    well THAT is a biggie.
    however, these organic farms...are they also free-range? animals allowed to roam, or are the completely shut in, limited/no space, like facory farming? i must admit i haven't looked into it that in depth b/c they prices at the market usually get me like this :shock: ...and thus, i haven't researched as fully, as of yet...





    and arthur.....that is what my husband always says. and sure, perahps there ARe some abuses, no doubt....human beings are always out to make out better for themselves, but overall there ARE criteria in place, so i would think the vast majority of organic and/or free range raised stock is just that.


    Also, keep in mind that it takes alot more acreage per head to feed free-range livestock than it does in a confined operation.




    absolutely....thus the cost. :shock:
    that's the thing of it tho, if we never embraced factory farming, the cost wouldn't seem prohibitive, it would merely be the cost, period. but it is oh so difficult living on a budget, seeing much cheaper options...and then going for the more expensive option, oftentimes MUCh more expensive. and yes, it is better for you, for the environment, and most especially the animals.....but we all to some extent make lots of our decisions based around our bottomline.


    polaris....i don't like to 'assume'...i just thought perhaps you or someone knew, definitively. definitely something i should look into/read up on even more. i have been reading more and more about organic meat and produce, but mostly it's written from a health perspective, not from an animal welfare perspective.



    oh, and i buy the bulk of my produce and meat from supermarkets. i live in suburbia. sure, there are quite a lot of farms out east from me, but yea....not a trip i make often.....and i don't think we have any local farms for any sort of meat/poultry. i guess i could look into local butcher shops....but yea, i like to do as much of my shopping in one store as possible, and also too, most local butcher shops hours are not very conducive to my work schedule. anyhoo...definitely something to research more! i am fortunate that i do have a few local markets realatively close that do sell organic beef and pork...i think chicekn....definitely eggs. limited supply of organic fruits and vegs, but while i am concerned with pesticide use....i am more concerned with the crulety and hormone/anti-biotic factors of meat.


    btw - i am not allowed to donate blood in the USA, indefinitely, b/c i lived in the UK dsuring a time period deemed dangerous for mad cow disease, and therefore am considered to carry mad cow anti-bodies. thing if it is tho, i was a veggie back then. eh well.......
    Post edited by decides2dream on
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    polaris_x wrote:
    well THAT is a biggie.
    however, these organic farms...are they also free-range? animals allowed to roam, or are the completely shut in, limited/no space, like facory farming? i must admit i haven't looked into it that in depth b/c they prices at the market usually get me like this :shock: ...and thus, i haven't researched as fully, as of yet...

    well ... the term organic should denote free range as well ... the way things work tho - i would not be surprised if a company abused vague regulation on the labeling to promote themselves as organic ...

    the best thing to do is to go to farmers markets and talk to the farmers/butchers you buy your meat from ... they will give you the low down ...


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_ce ... th_America
    In the US, federal organic legislation defines three levels of organics. Products made entirely with certified organic ingredients and methods can be labeled "100% organic". Products with at least 95% organic ingredients can use the word "organic". Both of these categories may also display the USDA organic seal. A third category, containing a minimum of 70% organic ingredients, can be labeled "made with organic ingredients". In addition, products may also display the logo of the certification body that approved them. Products made with less than 70% organic ingredients can not advertise this information to consumers and can only mention this fact in the product's ingredient statement. Certification is handled by state, non-profit and private agencies that have been approved by the US Department of Agriculture (USDA).
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    arthurdent wrote:
    Also, keep in mind that it takes alot more acreage per head to feed free-range livestock than it does in a confined operation.

    yeah ... but there's the flip side to that ... disease, suffering, etc.
  • gabersgabers Posts: 2,787
    This website is a great resource for those that are interested in eating more healthy, especially if you are a meat eater (like myself). I also highly suggest reading "An Omnivore's Dilemna" to help paint the full picture of what truly entails factory farming, organic, and the like.

    http://www.eatwild.com/
  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,977
    gabers wrote:
    This website is a great resource for those that are interested in eating more healthy, especially if you are a meat eater (like myself). I also highly suggest reading "An Omnivore's Dilemna" to help paint the full picture of what truly entails factory farming, organic, and the like.

    http://www.eatwild.com/


    thanks! :)
    i AM very interested, so i appreciate the information.


    however, since you do seem knowledgeable...do you know, does organic meat necessarily entail free- range? or at least, far better living conditions than factory farming?
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,977
    gabers wrote:
    This website is a great resource for those that are interested in eating more healthy, especially if you are a meat eater (like myself). I also highly suggest reading "An Omnivore's Dilemna" to help paint the full picture of what truly entails factory farming, organic, and the like.

    http://www.eatwild.com/
    question - which book are you recommending?

    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b_0_1 ... nivore%27s


    the straight-up "the omnivore's dilemma"....and not the other variations?
    just curious.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • gabersgabers Posts: 2,787
    gabers wrote:
    This website is a great resource for those that are interested in eating more healthy, especially if you are a meat eater (like myself). I also highly suggest reading "An Omnivore's Dilemna" to help paint the full picture of what truly entails factory farming, organic, and the like.

    http://www.eatwild.com/


    thanks! :)
    i AM very interested, so i appreciate the information.


    however, since you do seem knowledgeable...do you know, does organic meat necessarily entail free- range? or at least, far better living conditions than factory farming?

    No, organic does not necessarily mean free range. That's the catch a lot of people I think don't realize. Hypothetically, you could be eating organic beef that was not fully grass fed. In that case, you're more than likely eating meat from an animal that was very sick before it died, since cattle did not evolve to digest the grains we feed them, and they weren't given the drugs and antibiotics to attempt and make it feel a bit better before it was slaughtered. True grass fed beef is usually organic and often organic is grass fed, but not always. With chickens the term "free range" is also abused becaused by FDA rules, the label only requires access to free range. Many so called "free range" chickens are actually kept in a coop like most of the non free rangers, they just have an open door at the end of the facility with a small patch of grass to roam around on, which due to logistics means virtually none of the chickens actually leave their confines.
  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,977
    gabers wrote:
    gabers wrote:
    This website is a great resource for those that are interested in eating more healthy, especially if you are a meat eater (like myself). I also highly suggest reading "An Omnivore's Dilemna" to help paint the full picture of what truly entails factory farming, organic, and the like.

    http://www.eatwild.com/


    thanks! :)
    i AM very interested, so i appreciate the information.


    however, since you do seem knowledgeable...do you know, does organic meat necessarily entail free- range? or at least, far better living conditions than factory farming?

    No, organic does not necessarily mean free range. That's the catch a lot of people I think don't realize. Hypothetically, you could be eating organic beef that was not fully grass fed. In that case, you're more than likely eating meat from an animal that was very sick before it died, since cattle did not evolve to digest the grains we feed them, and they weren't given the drugs and antibiotics to attempt and make it feel a bit better before it was slaughtered. True grass fed beef is usually organic and often organic is grass fed, but not always. With chickens the term "free range" is also abused becaused by FDA rules, the label only requires access to free range. Many so called "free range" chickens are actually kept in a coop like most of the non free rangers, they just have an open door at the end of the facility with a small patch of grass to roam around on, which due to logistics means virtually none of the chickens actually leave their confines.


    see, and that's the part that makes me hesitant to lay out the $$$ for organic, b/c how do i know?
    and the pessimist/little faith in humanity of my husband ;)...he thinks it's all a bunch of hooey. i know there are the labels, but as you say.....there is still grey area within that. however, i do still want to now more about it, and hope for better choices/solutions in the future.
    Stay with me...
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  • gabersgabers Posts: 2,787
    gabers wrote:
    This website is a great resource for those that are interested in eating more healthy, especially if you are a meat eater (like myself). I also highly suggest reading "An Omnivore's Dilemna" to help paint the full picture of what truly entails factory farming, organic, and the like.

    http://www.eatwild.com/
    question - which book are you recommending?

    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b_0_1 ... nivore%27s


    the straight-up "the omnivore's dilemma"....and not the other variations?
    just curious.

    I recommend reading any of Michael Pollen's books you can get a hold of, but I most recommend "The Omnivore''s Dilemna: A Natural History of Four Meals". I've also read "In Defense of Food: An Eater's Manifesto", which was also a very enlightening read and kind of follows the other.
  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,977
    gabers wrote:
    gabers wrote:
    This website is a great resource for those that are interested in eating more healthy, especially if you are a meat eater (like myself). I also highly suggest reading "An Omnivore's Dilemna" to help paint the full picture of what truly entails factory farming, organic, and the like.

    http://www.eatwild.com/
    question - which book are you recommending?

    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b_0_1 ... nivore%27s


    the straight-up "the omnivore's dilemma"....and not the other variations?
    just curious.

    I recommend reading any of Michael Pollen's books you can get a hold of, but I most recommend "The Omnivore''s Dilemna: A Natural History of Four Meals". I've also read "In Defense of Food: An Eater's Manifesto", which was also a very enlightening read and kind of follows the other.




    cool, thanks.
    back in my younger, more involved animal rights days...i read a LOT of books about factory farming, hunting, general animal rights, etc. could be very hit or miss, tho overall....a great education. so you bet, i am always interested in recommended readings, and especially nowadays.....when i most definitely accept my omnivorous nature.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • weenieweenie Posts: 1,623
    gabers wrote:
    gabers wrote:
    This website is a great resource for those that are interested in eating more healthy, especially if you are a meat eater (like myself). I also highly suggest reading "An Omnivore's Dilemna" to help paint the full picture of what truly entails factory farming, organic, and the like.

    http://www.eatwild.com/
    question - which book are you recommending?

    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b_0_1 ... nivore%27s


    the straight-up "the omnivore's dilemma"....and not the other variations?
    just curious.

    I recommend reading any of Michael Pollen's books you can get a hold of, but I most recommend "The Omnivore''s Dilemna: A Natural History of Four Meals". I've also read "In Defense of Food: An Eater's Manifesto", which was also a very enlightening read and kind of follows the other.

    I also just had someone tell me about a movie called "Food Inc". She is not organic or veggie and the movie made a huge impact on her and her family's eating habits. I'm going to check into it.

    Another great source for learning about your food is your locally owned health food store. Some of the chain health food stores might not be the most trustworthy sources, but your locally owned guys are pretty straight up about their animal products AND produce etc. since they stay in business by word of mouth and not huge advertising budgets. For most of the local guys, it's a way of life and they're happy to talk about what they sell.
    ~I want to realize brotherhood or identity not merely with the beings called human, but I want to realize identity with all life, even with such things as crawl upon earth.~
    Mohandas K. Gandhi

    ~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
    Henry David Thoreau
  • tybirdtybird Posts: 17,388
    polaris_x wrote:
    arthurdent wrote:
    Also, keep in mind that it takes alot more acreage per head to feed free-range livestock than it does in a confined operation.

    yeah ... but there's the flip side to that ... disease, suffering, etc.
    Always a flip side, yes indeed.....free-range chickens are more vulnerable to the various strains of bird flu due to possible interaction with wild birds.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
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