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HealthCARE does not equal Health INSURANCE

know1know1 Posts: 6,794
edited July 2009 in A Moving Train
Just sayin....

Yet I hear those terms used interchangeably quite often - most notably by our esteemed leader.

Are we attempting to fix healthcare or are we attempting to fix health insurance?
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.

Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    doesn't the health insurance industry dominate and pretty much control the health care field? can you get good health care without health insurance? not unless you want to pay thousands and thousands of dollars
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • blackredyellowblackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    know1 wrote:
    Are we attempting to fix healthcare or are we attempting to fix health insurance?

    Both... for most of us, health care (at least anything more than a routine doctor visit) is currently unaffordable without health insurance.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,977
    i think the terms are used interchangeably by many, especially since - sadly - our system of healthCARE is based within a system of health INSURANCE. i would LOVE if we actually had an overhaul of heathCARE...and completely got rid of this system of private health INSURANE...but i believe obama, along with everyone else...is still trying to work within the confines of our current system of health insurance for healthcare.

    just sayin'.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    blackredyellow wrote:
    know1 wrote:
    Are we attempting to fix healthcare or are we attempting to fix health insurance?

    Both... for most of us, health care (at least anything more than a routine doctor visit) is currently unaffordable without health insurance.

    so get some health insurance. :shock:
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    blackredyellow wrote:
    know1 wrote:
    Are we attempting to fix healthcare or are we attempting to fix health insurance?

    Both... for most of us, health care (at least anything more than a routine doctor visit) is currently unaffordable without health insurance.

    It's unaffordable with health insurance most of the time too.

    Me, I'm attempting to eradicate the entire health insurance industry so that our generally strong health care services can be enjoyed by everyone that needs them.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    soulsinging wrote:
    blackredyellow wrote:
    know1 wrote:
    Are we attempting to fix healthcare or are we attempting to fix health insurance?

    Both... for most of us, health care (at least anything more than a routine doctor visit) is currently unaffordable without health insurance.

    It's unaffordable with health insurance most of the time too.

    Me, I'm attempting to eradicate the entire health insurance industry so that our generally strong health care services can be enjoyed by everyone that needs them.

    thats possible to do without making the US government the one single insurance provider in existence.
  • blackredyellowblackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    jlew24asu wrote:
    blackredyellow wrote:
    know1 wrote:
    Are we attempting to fix healthcare or are we attempting to fix health insurance?

    Both... for most of us, health care (at least anything more than a routine doctor visit) is currently unaffordable without health insurance.

    so get some health insurance. :shock:

    I do have health insurance, so I'm not worried about me... but like almost everyone else, it's tied to my job. What I am saying is that healthcare = health insurance to a lot of people.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    jlew24asu wrote:
    soulsinging wrote:
    blackredyellow wrote:
    Both... for most of us, health care (at least anything more than a routine doctor visit) is currently unaffordable without health insurance.

    It's unaffordable with health insurance most of the time too.

    Me, I'm attempting to eradicate the entire health insurance industry so that our generally strong health care services can be enjoyed by everyone that needs them.

    thats possible to do without making the US government the one single insurance provider in existence.

    Just outlaw the insurance industry and make doctors directly answerable to patients?
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    blackredyellow wrote:

    I do have health insurance, so I'm not worried about me... but like almost everyone else, it's tied to my job. What I am saying is that healthcare = health insurance to a lot of people.

    and what I'm saying is you dont need a job or employer assistance to have heathcare.
  • tybirdtybird Posts: 17,388
    soulsinging wrote:
    Me, I'm attempting to eradicate the entire health insurance industry so that our generally strong health care services can be enjoyed by everyone that needs them.
    That's a bunch of jobs going into the fucking toilet at one time.....thousands and thousands of jobs
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    soulsinging wrote:

    Just outlaw the insurance industry and make doctors directly answerable to patients?

    Obama touched on that last night, making doctors more answerable to patients. and we dont need to eliminate the insurance industry to do that.
  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,977
    jlew24asu wrote:
    blackredyellow wrote:

    I do have health insurance, so I'm not worried about me... but like almost everyone else, it's tied to my job. What I am saying is that healthcare = health insurance to a lot of people.

    and what I'm saying is you dont need a job or employer assistance to have heathcare.



    you can pay for healthcare without a JOB? ;)


    and while what you are 'saying' is true...for the vast majority, it is completely unaffordable. let's try and be realistic.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    tybird wrote:
    soulsinging wrote:
    Me, I'm attempting to eradicate the entire health insurance industry so that our generally strong health care services can be enjoyed by everyone that needs them.
    That's a bunch of jobs going into the fucking toilet at one time.....thousands and thousands of jobs

    millions
  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,977
    tybird wrote:
    soulsinging wrote:
    Me, I'm attempting to eradicate the entire health insurance industry so that our generally strong health care services can be enjoyed by everyone that needs them.
    That's a bunch of jobs going into the fucking toilet at one time.....thousands and thousands of jobs


    it is.....but should our healthcare system be tied to keeping people employed, or should it be about health?
    it's funny how many - not saying you - are always about letting businesses sink or swim, pull their own weight...and if jobs didsappear, so be it...they should just go and get other jobs. however, for some reason when it comes to healthcare...we should put the needs of the employees within the health insurance industry above our own, as a country? it doesn't make sense.


    that said, you BET...it IS a big deal....so yea, it would be good to see some transitioning happen. also why i think it's going to be very slow going, if we indeed ever get there...to go UHC, to get rid of our for profit health insurance industry. and hey, let's be realistic....they won't ALL disappear. some will transition into UHC, some will stay right where they are b/c private insurance will never entirely disappear, even in a UHC system...and then yes, plenty of jobs will disappear.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    jlew24asu wrote:
    blackredyellow wrote:
    know1 wrote:
    Are we attempting to fix healthcare or are we attempting to fix health insurance?

    Both... for most of us, health care (at least anything more than a routine doctor visit) is currently unaffordable without health insurance.

    so get some health insurance. :shock:


    ok...could you tell me which wonderful insurance company insures with preexisting conditions?

    i've tried about 6...but i guess i'm not choosing the right one's...what is the name of this wonderful company?
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    norm wrote:


    ok...could you tell me which wonderful insurance company insures with preexisting conditions?

    i've tried about 6...but i guess i'm not choosing the right one's...what is the name of this wonderful company?

    this is something I've been pushing for and Obama mentioned last night. policing them so no one can deny you coverage.
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    jlew24asu wrote:
    tybird wrote:
    soulsinging wrote:
    Me, I'm attempting to eradicate the entire health insurance industry so that our generally strong health care services can be enjoyed by everyone that needs them.
    That's a bunch of jobs going into the fucking toilet at one time.....thousands and thousands of jobs

    millions

    Well they can just pull themselves up by their bootstraps and get other jobs. Go back to school and become doctors.
  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,977
    jlew24asu wrote:
    norm wrote:


    ok...could you tell me which wonderful insurance company insures with preexisting conditions?

    i've tried about 6...but i guess i'm not choosing the right one's...what is the name of this wonderful company?

    this is something I've been pushing for and Obama mentioned last night. policing them so no one can deny you coverage.



    and then raise all our premiums to cover all these covered persons with such expesnive conditions! because, yes, a priavte company, they need to turn a profit for their stockholders. that's the issue there. with keeping it private and profit-based. we all absorb the costs no matter what, i rather make it cheaper by not having stock dividends built into my healthcare costs. also, they may not deny coverage...but how about they simply make it so prohibitively expensive for you that there's no way the average person can afford it? another possibility.......
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    soulsinging wrote:

    Well they can just pull themselves up by their bootstraps and get other jobs. Go back to school and become doctors.

    absolutely. and I hope they would. but of course that can be avoided by you not demanding they get fired in the first place.
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    jlew24asu wrote:
    soulsinging wrote:
    Well they can just pull themselves up by their bootstraps and get other jobs. Go back to school and become doctors.

    absolutely. and I hope they would. but of course that can be avoided by you not demanding they get fired in the first place.

    A lot of things can be avoided by not demanding someone get xyz in the first place. Bankruptcy and lack of treatment can be avoided by you not demanding sick people of limited means get white collar jobs that offer comprehensive health care plans in the first place.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    decides2dream wrote:


    and then raise all our premiums to cover all these covered persons with such expesnive conditions! because, yes, a priavte company, they need to turn a profit for their stockholders. that's the issue there. with keeping it private and profit-based. we all absorb the costs no matter what, i rather make it cheaper by not having stock dividends built into my healthcare costs. also, they may not deny coverage...but how about they simply make it so prohibitively expensive for you that there's no way the average person can afford it? another possibility.......

    Obama also mentioned controlling how much they can raise premiums. maybe you should watch the press conference
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    soulsinging wrote:
    A lot of things can be avoided by not demanding someone get xyz in the first place. Bankruptcy and lack of treatment can be avoided by you not demanding sick people of limited means get white collar jobs that offer comprehensive health care plans in the first place.

    many companies offer health care plans, not just white collar jobs. second of all, you dont need a job to have health care coverage. plans are available for purchase to anyone.
  • tybirdtybird Posts: 17,388
    soulsinging wrote:
    A lot of things can be avoided by not demanding someone get xyz in the first place. Bankruptcy and lack of treatment can be avoided by you not demanding sick people of limited means get white collar jobs that offer comprehensive health care plans in the first place.
    So....let's get rid of the white-collar jobs that thousands of people already have....and the insurance coverage provided to them as employees of insurance companies....sure that there is some logic in that....somewhere....maybe..... :twisted:
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,977
    jlew24asu wrote:
    decides2dream wrote:


    and then raise all our premiums to cover all these covered persons with such expesnive conditions! because, yes, a priavte company, they need to turn a profit for their stockholders. that's the issue there. with keeping it private and profit-based. we all absorb the costs no matter what, i rather make it cheaper by not having stock dividends built into my healthcare costs. also, they may not deny coverage...but how about they simply make it so prohibitively expensive for you that there's no way the average person can afford it? another possibility.......

    Obama also mentioned controlling how much they can raise premiums. maybe you should watch the press conference


    i did catch that part. i was able to see some, tho not all of it. out last night.
    and, the bill is not passed just yet...so simply pointing out current, and possible scenarios...as we know it as of now. but hey, you are right....perhaps if they do enough of all of that.....profit-margins will decrease, less will want to be in healthcare as it will grow less and less profitable...and then we'll get UHC in the end anyway. i like how obama works. ;) :P :mrgreen:



    and this....

    jlew wrote:
    many companies offer health care plans, not just white collar jobs. second of all, you dont need a job to have health care coverage. plans are available for purchase to anyone.


    honestly makes me laugh. you said as much earlier. um, question...how does one afford to buy health insurance...if they don't have a JOB? and sure, lots of companies offer healthplans, you do not need to be white collar, at all, to have insurance...absolutely correct. some blue collar jobs have excellent insurance. thing of it is....WHY does our healthcare have to be tied to our jobs and what our employers may offer as our options? yes...we can get insurance all on our own, but those plans are ridiculously expensive! thus why, most have to go with whatever their employers offer (and some employers don't offer)...so definitely cuts into the choice scenario significantly there.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    jlew24asu wrote:
    soulsinging wrote:
    A lot of things can be avoided by not demanding someone get xyz in the first place. Bankruptcy and lack of treatment can be avoided by you not demanding sick people of limited means get white collar jobs that offer comprehensive health care plans in the first place.

    many companies offer health care plans, not just white collar jobs. second of all, you dont need a job to have health care coverage. plans are available for purchase to anyone.

    And every single one of those health care plans restricts your options and places your health in the backseat after their profits.
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    tybird wrote:
    soulsinging wrote:
    A lot of things can be avoided by not demanding someone get xyz in the first place. Bankruptcy and lack of treatment can be avoided by you not demanding sick people of limited means get white collar jobs that offer comprehensive health care plans in the first place.
    So....let's get rid of the white-collar jobs that thousands of people already have....and the insurance coverage provided to them as employees of insurance companies....sure that there is some logic in that....somewhere....maybe..... :twisted:

    The logic is in a system that means they don't need health care coverage through their employer because they already have it from the day they are born. And then they can look for a job in an industry that isn't built upon obtaining profit from the sickness and tragedy of others' lives.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    decides2dream wrote:

    honestly makes me laugh. you said as much earlier. um, question...how does one afford to buy health insurance...if they don't have a JOB? and sure, lots of companies offer healthplans, you do not need to be white collar, at all, to have insurance...absolutely correct. some blue collar jobs have excellent insurance. thing of it is....WHY does our healthcare have to be tied to our jobs and what our employers may offer as our options? yes...we can get insurance all on our own, but those plans are ridiculously expensive! thus why, most have to go with whatever their employers offer (and some employers don't offer)...so definitely cuts into the choice scenario significantly there.

    you are misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm saying you can have a job that doesn't offer a healthcare plan and still have insurance.

    its not tied to our jobs at all. pick up the phone and get a quote.

    your ......'s and all caps...and incomplete sentences....and condescending tone really gives me a headache. I'm sure you are a kind hearted person, but your poor husband. I can just hear your nails on a chalkboard voice yelling about this or that.
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 20,942
    jlew24asu wrote:
    decides2dream wrote:

    honestly makes me laugh. you said as much earlier. um, question...how does one afford to buy health insurance...if they don't have a JOB? and sure, lots of companies offer healthplans, you do not need to be white collar, at all, to have insurance...absolutely correct. some blue collar jobs have excellent insurance. thing of it is....WHY does our healthcare have to be tied to our jobs and what our employers may offer as our options? yes...we can get insurance all on our own, but those plans are ridiculously expensive! thus why, most have to go with whatever their employers offer (and some employers don't offer)...so definitely cuts into the choice scenario significantly there.

    you are misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm saying you can have a job that doesn't offer a healthcare plan and still have insurance.

    its not tied to our jobs at all. pick up the phone and get a quote.

    your ......'s and all caps...and incomplete sentences....and condescending tone really gives me a headache. I'm sure you are a kind hearted person, but your poor husband. I can just hear your nails on a chalkboard voice yelling about this or that.

    how do you propose that those without a job pay for this health insurance that they get by picking up the phone?
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Gern Blansten wrote:

    how do you propose that those without a job pay for this health insurance that they get by picking up the phone?

    you are new here. I've said countless times the government should treat healthcare like an unemployment benefit. and Obama touched on that last night as well as part of reform.
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 20,942
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Gern Blansten wrote:

    how do you propose that those without a job pay for this health insurance that they get by picking up the phone?

    you are new here. I've said countless times the government should treat healthcare like an unemployment benefit. and Obama touched on that last night as well as part of reform.

    That brings me to imagine a person who job jumps a lot....has gov't insurance program, then an employer, then gov't, then employer

    lot's of paperwork there
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
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