AMT used to be a place where all of us weirdo's could come and openly discuss even the most bizarre situations without being bashed, but now..a total different story..why does everyone feel their opinions are the right ones and everyone else is a nut job? What is up with that???? I used to NOT question politics, but now, the things I hear and see, make me want to come on here and get opinions, no matter how crazy they sound. and YES, I LOVE this country! and the freedoms we still are able to use.
I knew all the rules, but the rules did not know me...GUARANTEED!
AMT used to be a place where all of us weirdo's could come and openly discuss even the most bizarre situations without being bashed, but now..a total different story..why does everyone feel their opinions are the right ones and everyone else is a nut job? What is up with that????
Many good, interesting characters aren't on this new board - RolandTD20Kdrummer, My2hands, El-Kabong e.t.c - whilst some who were banned from the last board have been allowed to return.
AMT used to be a place where all of us weirdo's could come and openly discuss even the most bizarre situations without being bashed, but now..a total different story..why does everyone feel their opinions are the right ones and everyone else is a nut job? What is up with that????
Many good, interesting characters aren't on this new board - RolandTD20Kdrummer, My2hands, El-Kabong e.t.c, whilst some who were banned from the last board have been allowed to return.
yea, you're one of them. and my2hands is still around, just not in this forum. thank god Roland cant afford the 20 bucks for a membership.
They are a band:
...
-Who were going to play "Gimme Some Truth" at that celebrity all-star concert right after 9/11 before they changed their minds at the last minute to play "long road" with Neil Young.
....
on where you stand, literally-- what country people are coming from when they express some of these ideas).
What is the source of this information?
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Several threads highlighting American military injustices DECADES/generations ago. (current news alone?)
The US is the "most hated country in the world"...
America got what it deserved on 9/11..
America had very little impact on WWII...
America is a country proud to be born from genocide..
Dr Tiller is a hero...
US government is trying to kill senior citizens in order to avoid paying SS..
America's billionaires are plotting to "curb the world population"...
Universal Healthcare is affordable, will require no tax increases, and will run perfectly...
Completely ignore threads about North Korea's breaking of the Armistice agreement and people asking a SERIOUS question if Kim Jong IL is actually crazy. WTF? only on AMT is that question even asked.
Someone asking if 2 US journalists being sentenced to 12 years in NK of hard slavery as FAIR. WTF? only on AMT is that question even asked.
and thats just the first page..lets not forget the countless 9/11 truthers who frequent this board as well. so what gives? PJ in the past has been a little off the beaten path with their endorsements and whatnot, but these days, they are very mainstream in their support for Obama
First of all...I don't know that any of what you posted actually appeared here since you have no cites to any particular posts. And second of all, it's a fact that the US is not beloved by all. As a major holder of power and a major player in just about everything (the deciders), a lot of people are going to dislike us--especially if they perceive we aren't giving them a fair shake. If you go traveling at all, you know that sometimes it's a good idea to say you're Canadian, not American. This is not a sign that America is beloved across the world. I wouldn't say that it's an extremist statement to note reality.
First of all...I don't know that any of what you posted actually appeared here since you have no cites to any particular posts.
have a look around before saying this. you are obviously new here and don't really follow what goes on here enough to know what I posted has all been said here recently...and can all be found on the first page of this forum.
And second of all, it's a fact that the US is not beloved by all. As a major holder of power and a major player in just about everything (the deciders), a lot of people are going to dislike us--especially if they perceive we aren't giving them a fair shake.
They are a band:
...
-Who were going to play "Gimme Some Truth" at that celebrity all-star concert right after 9/11 before they changed their minds at the last minute to play "long road" with Neil Young.
....
on where you stand, literally-- what country people are coming from when they express some of these ideas).
What is the source of this information?
Good question. I believe I remember reading about it on the Porch, can't remember exactly-- I remember thinking that it really stunned me. They did start playing it the very next show after the Tribute To Heroes concert at the Bridge School in October right after 9/11. It was also on the 2001 Christmas single, which isn't as clear of a statement, but only months after 9/11, they were saying something there.
I won't cover JLew's original thoughts point by point. Rather, I will just go over this general feeling as an overview.
I believe that most of us were told about all these great things about America at a young age and her flaws were not revealed to us until we were much older. One point being is the impression that we single handedly won World War II. We contributed greatly in that war, there is no doubting that... but there were many others who also had a stake in it's ultimate victory... including some really bad military strategies made by Hitler (opening up an Eastern Front and choosing to go after England's cities instead of his general's plans to take out her industries and RAF airfields, for example).
We were also told lies about our Founding Fathers, the spread of Manifest Destiny that resulted in the slaughter of Native Americans and our involvement in many foriegn countries domestic affairs. We are instilled of all that is good with america, while neglecting to tell us about all of her flaws... so, we end up with this false truth about what America is.
Take the Middle East, for example. We did things there that have instilled hated towards us for many decades. We had America's best interests in mind in the region, instead of the best interests of the people who live there. That is why the people over there hate us so much. Iran would probably not be the place it is today, had we not overthrown a democratically elected government and installed the Shah Of Iran in its place. The Shah's oppression of the Iranian people lead to the Islamic Revolution in the 1970s. We added to this by trying to quell the Iranian threat by teaming up with the secular Iraq of Saddam Hussein in the 1980s to do our killing for us. As for the Taliban... we were so interested in defeating the Soviet Union that we actually helped to create the basis of Al Qaeda, the Mujahadin, whom we labeled as 'Freedom Fighters'. Usama bin Laden ws a 'Freedom Fighter' in our eyes back then, just as Saddam Hussein was a leader of Democracy in the 1980s. The events of September 11, 2001 should not have been such a surprise to us... it can be seen as the harvest we had sown. If anyone wonders why there is so much hatred of America in the Arab/Persian Middle East... all you have to do is look at these examples.
And YES... America DOES do some great things in other countries. But, much too often, we do it with our best interests as the basis. It is not charity if you want or expect something in return. Charity and contribution are thing that are unconditional. Giving money in order to receive favor in return is bribery.
...
I think we, America, can change all of that... not by pretending that these past errors did not occur... rather to try to make amends for them. We can start by admitting to past indescretions and trying to move forward towards better relations. Changing our foriegn policy to help the people of other nations, instead of trying to expand our economic base is a good place to start.
America is not the only country with flaws. The British Empire was extremly brutal in their colonies. The Russians have the blood spilt by Stalin on their hands and Italy cannot erase the stink of the Roman Empire and the deaths caused by their Catholic Church from their past.
...
I happen to love America. Mostly based on our Constitution and Bill Of Rights. I am aslo ashamed at some of the terrible things we have been involved with. I believe we are better than that. i believe we should provide a shining example of what other people could have, if they wish for it. I believe we should help when we are called to help, instead of drafting plans to expand our wealth. I believe God does not only bless America... He blesses everyone.
If i'm considered to be an extremist because of these beliefs by others... that's not my call to make. I'm just trying to fit my country, the one I love, into the changing world.
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
They are a band:
-Whose singer "pledges his grievance to the flag"
-Who used to support Ralph Nader with extreme fervor, and probably still do, aside from the fact it takes away from the Democrat vote, which always is deemed "the lesser of two evils" by this band
-Who were going to play "Gimme Some Truth" at that celebrity all-star concert right after 9/11 before they changed their minds at the last minute to play "long road" with Neil Young.
-Who wrote and performed Bu$hleaguer, no matter how many boos it received, while dancing around in a Bush mask, flashy jacket, and later "impaling" (I still laugh at that term) the mask on the mic stand
-Whose singer has scribbled pro-choice on his arm during a live performance, and has openly stated that he wouldn't be where he was today if it wasn't for abortion.
-Who love the works of Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, etc...
just to name a few. You can see how some of these actions might attract this type of crowd, and some of the "fringier" types.
Call me a nut, but most of those posts that you mention above are arguable one way or another (it all depends on where you stand, literally-- what country people are coming from when they express some of these ideas).
excellent points, all the way round, but most especially the part i bolded. from the OP alone you can easily read bias, as in, the OP's own interpretation/spin of posts made in this forum....b/c there are a few of em i know quite well, were not written nor expressed as 'simply' as the OP infers. just sayin'.
and 'where you stand'....can even be right here in the USA, and STILL have vastly different perspectives on many of these topics.
that said, i've not read past this excellent post....so if this thread moved already into an entirely different direction already, my apologies...;)
I believe God does not only bless America... He blesses everyone.
True that. Actually, I'm still waiting for my priest or any priest to mention to my parish to pray for Osama Bin Laden.
mine did. and this was shortly after 9/11. his sermon was actually something along the lines of forgiveness though. and before everyone labels me and some bible toting fundamentalist Christian....I am actually a C&E Catholic
I believe God does not only bless America... He blesses everyone.
True that. Actually, I'm still waiting for my priest or any priest to mention to my parish to pray for Osama Bin Laden.
mine did. and this was shortly after 9/11. his sermon was actually something along the lines of forgiveness though. and before everyone labels me and some bible toting fundamentalist Christian....I am actually a C&E Catholic
I won't cover JLew's original thoughts point by point. Rather, I will just go over this general feeling as an overview.
I believe that most of us were told about all these great things about America at a young age and her flaws were not revealed to us until we were much older. One point being is the impression that we single handedly won World War II. We contributed greatly in that war, there is no doubting that... but there were many others who also had a stake in it's ultimate victory... including some really bad military strategies made by Hitler (opening up an Eastern Front and choosing to go after England's cities instead of his general's plans to take out her industries and RAF airfields, for example).
We were also told lies about our Founding Fathers, the spread of Manifest Destiny that resulted in the slaughter of Native Americans and our involvement in many foriegn countries domestic affairs. We are instilled of all that is good with america, while neglecting to tell us about all of her flaws... so, we end up with this false truth about what America is.
Take the Middle East, for example. We did things there that have instilled hated towards us for many decades. We had America's best interests in mind in the region, instead of the best interests of the people who live there. That is why the people over there hate us so much. Iran would probably not be the place it is today, had we not overthrown a democratically elected government and installed the Shah Of Iran in its place. The Shah's oppression of the Iranian people lead to the Islamic Revolution in the 1970s. We added to this by trying to quell the Iranian threat by teaming up with the secular Iraq of Saddam Hussein in the 1980s to do our killing for us. As for the Taliban... we were so interested in defeating the Soviet Union that we actually helped to create the basis of Al Qaeda, the Mujahadin, whom we labeled as 'Freedom Fighters'. Usama bin Laden ws a 'Freedom Fighter' in our eyes back then, just as Saddam Hussein was a leader of Democracy in the 1980s. The events of September 11, 2001 should not have been such a surprise to us... it can be seen as the harvest we had sown. If anyone wonders why there is so much hatred of America in the Arab/Persian Middle East... all you have to do is look at these examples.
And YES... America DOES do some great things in other countries. But, much too often, we do it with our best interests as the basis. It is not charity if you want or expect something in return. Charity and contribution are thing that are unconditional. Giving money in order to receive favor in return is bribery.
...
I think we, America, can change all of that... not by pretending that these past errors did not occur... rather to try to make amends for them. We can start by admitting to past indescretions and trying to move forward towards better relations. Changing our foriegn policy to help the people of other nations, instead of trying to expand our economic base is a good place to start.
America is not the only country with flaws. The British Empire was extremly brutal in their colonies. The Russians have the blood spilt by Stalin on their hands and Italy cannot erase the stink of the Roman Empire and the deaths caused by their Catholic Church from their past.
...
I happen to love America. Mostly based on our Constitution and Bill Of Rights. I am aslo ashamed at some of the terrible things we have been involved with. I believe we are better than that. i believe we should provide a shining example of what other people could have, if they wish for it. I believe we should help when we are called to help, instead of drafting plans to expand our wealth. I believe God does not only bless America... He blesses everyone.
If i'm considered to be an extremist because of these beliefs by others... that's not my call to make. I'm just trying to fit my country, the one I love, into the changing world.
Beautifully written, Cosmo..
I knew all the rules, but the rules did not know me...GUARANTEED!
First of all...I don't know that any of what you posted actually appeared here since you have no cites to any particular posts.
have a look around before saying this. you are obviously new here and don't really follow what goes on here enough to know what I posted has all been said here recently...and can all be found on the first page of this forum.
And second of all, it's a fact that the US is not beloved by all. As a major holder of power and a major player in just about everything (the deciders), a lot of people are going to dislike us--especially if they perceive we aren't giving them a fair shake.
This is not a sign that America is beloved across the world. I wouldn't say that it's an extremist statement to note reality.
you obviously have no fucking clue what the reality of the world is at the moment
Yeah, I have no fucking clue because you say I do, just like I'm new posting here. People's names change. I've been posting here for years but the new board and my old name couldn't see eye to eye on my email. And speaking of change, take the change and buy yourself a clue while you're at it. Everything's a crock of shit when you don't want to hear it and can't counter it because it happens to be true. A family member of mine just returned from a European country where she didn't call herself Canadian, but where she did say that if people saw you as American, they were far more critical of you than they seemed to be if you weren't. (She was there for months, and said that with the election of Obama some of this eased.) Other family members traveled to North Africa, where they were specifically instructed to say they were Canadian to help insure their personal safety. My professor of mathematics indicated that he says he's Canadian when he visits certain parts of South America. So, you see...money isn't everything. And besides, money isn't what it once was...especially not our money against things like the Euro. And our money has tended to benefit those to whom benefit always accrue, not to the average citizen of any country. So, the average citizen has no reason to like us when they see American money making a mini flood right into their country and right into the hands of the most corrupt and not themselves.
Yeah, I have no fucking clue because you say I do, just like I'm new posting here. People's names change. I've been posting here for years but the new board and my old name couldn't see eye to eye on my email. And speaking of change, take the change and buy yourself a clue while you're at it. Everything's a crock of shit when you don't want to hear it and can't counter it because it happens to be true. A family member of mine just returned from a European country where she didn't call herself Canadian, but where she did say that if people saw you as American, they were far more critical of you than they seemed to be if you weren't. (She was there for months, and said that with the election of Obama some of this eased.) Other family members traveled to North Africa, where they were specifically instructed to say they were Canadian to help insure their personal safety. My professor of mathematics indicated that he says he's Canadian when he visits certain parts of South America. So, you see...money isn't everything. And besides, money isn't what it once was...especially not our money against things like the Euro. And our money has tended to benefit those to whom benefit always accrue, not to the average citizen of any country. So, the average citizen has no reason to like us when they see American money making a mini flood right into their country and right into the hands of the most corrupt and not themselves.
I've been to South America as well, namely Brazil and Peru. Very friendly people and loved that I was American. a friend of mine travels to Columbia all the time now because American guys are treated like rock stars in the clubs. never once did I feel unsafe about being American in any country..
now if I travel to Pakistan you might be right. so yea, you got me there :roll:
Several threads highlighting American military injustices DECADES/generations ago. (current news alone?)
The US is the "most hated country in the world"...
America got what it deserved on 9/11..
America had very little impact on WWII...
America is a country proud to be born from genocide..
Dr Tiller is a hero...
US government is trying to kill senior citizens in order to avoid paying SS..
America's billionaires are plotting to "curb the world population"...
Universal Healthcare is affordable, will require no tax increases, and will run perfectly...
Completely ignore threads about North Korea's breaking of the Armistice agreement and people asking a SERIOUS question if Kim Jong IL is actually crazy. WTF? only on AMT is that question even asked.
Someone asking if 2 US journalists being sentenced to 12 years in NK of hard slavery as FAIR. WTF? only on AMT is that question even asked.
and thats just the first page..lets not forget the countless 9/11 truthers who frequent this board as well. so what gives? PJ in the past has been a little off the beaten path with their endorsements and whatnot, but these days, they are very mainstream in their support for Obama
A fair number of those are hardly extremist positions.
[ Everything's a crock of shit when you don't want to hear it and can't counter it because it happens to be true. A family member of mine just returned from a European country where she didn't call herself Canadian, but where she did say that if people saw you as American, they were far more critical of you than they seemed to be if you weren't.
Calm down their champ.
And you statement says way more about the idiots that live in the other country than the visiting American. If some idiot Italian, French, German, etc wants to dislike someone for being from America, they are are f'in moron. Vice versa.
pj attracts a lot of right wing extremists also... its not a one-way street.
personally i blame the music.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
[ Everything's a crock of shit when you don't want to hear it and can't counter it because it happens to be true. A family member of mine just returned from a European country where she didn't call herself Canadian, but where she did say that if people saw you as American, they were far more critical of you than they seemed to be if you weren't.
Calm down their champ.
And you statement says way more about the idiots that live in the other country than the visiting American. If some idiot Italian, French, German, etc wants to dislike someone for being from America, they are are f'in moron. Vice versa.
Nice...well done bearcat
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
Comments
Hail Hail HIPPIEMOM
Wishlist Foundation-
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
info@wishlistfoundation.org
Many good, interesting characters aren't on this new board - RolandTD20Kdrummer, My2hands, El-Kabong e.t.c - whilst some who were banned from the last board have been allowed to return.
yea, you're one of them. and my2hands is still around, just not in this forum. thank god Roland cant afford the 20 bucks for a membership.
What is the source of this information?
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
First of all...I don't know that any of what you posted actually appeared here since you have no cites to any particular posts. And second of all, it's a fact that the US is not beloved by all. As a major holder of power and a major player in just about everything (the deciders), a lot of people are going to dislike us--especially if they perceive we aren't giving them a fair shake. If you go traveling at all, you know that sometimes it's a good idea to say you're Canadian, not American. This is not a sign that America is beloved across the world. I wouldn't say that it's an extremist statement to note reality.
have a look around before saying this. you are obviously new here and don't really follow what goes on here enough to know what I posted has all been said here recently...and can all be found on the first page of this forum.
yea. I touched on this before.
this is the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard. I was just in Italy and people loved the fact I was American. Americans spend money, they love us.
you obviously have no fucking clue what the reality of the world is at the moment
Good question. I believe I remember reading about it on the Porch, can't remember exactly-- I remember thinking that it really stunned me. They did start playing it the very next show after the Tribute To Heroes concert at the Bridge School in October right after 9/11. It was also on the 2001 Christmas single, which isn't as clear of a statement, but only months after 9/11, they were saying something there.
I was given a temporary read-only ban on the last board, not a permanent ban.
I believe that most of us were told about all these great things about America at a young age and her flaws were not revealed to us until we were much older. One point being is the impression that we single handedly won World War II. We contributed greatly in that war, there is no doubting that... but there were many others who also had a stake in it's ultimate victory... including some really bad military strategies made by Hitler (opening up an Eastern Front and choosing to go after England's cities instead of his general's plans to take out her industries and RAF airfields, for example).
We were also told lies about our Founding Fathers, the spread of Manifest Destiny that resulted in the slaughter of Native Americans and our involvement in many foriegn countries domestic affairs. We are instilled of all that is good with america, while neglecting to tell us about all of her flaws... so, we end up with this false truth about what America is.
Take the Middle East, for example. We did things there that have instilled hated towards us for many decades. We had America's best interests in mind in the region, instead of the best interests of the people who live there. That is why the people over there hate us so much. Iran would probably not be the place it is today, had we not overthrown a democratically elected government and installed the Shah Of Iran in its place. The Shah's oppression of the Iranian people lead to the Islamic Revolution in the 1970s. We added to this by trying to quell the Iranian threat by teaming up with the secular Iraq of Saddam Hussein in the 1980s to do our killing for us. As for the Taliban... we were so interested in defeating the Soviet Union that we actually helped to create the basis of Al Qaeda, the Mujahadin, whom we labeled as 'Freedom Fighters'. Usama bin Laden ws a 'Freedom Fighter' in our eyes back then, just as Saddam Hussein was a leader of Democracy in the 1980s. The events of September 11, 2001 should not have been such a surprise to us... it can be seen as the harvest we had sown. If anyone wonders why there is so much hatred of America in the Arab/Persian Middle East... all you have to do is look at these examples.
And YES... America DOES do some great things in other countries. But, much too often, we do it with our best interests as the basis. It is not charity if you want or expect something in return. Charity and contribution are thing that are unconditional. Giving money in order to receive favor in return is bribery.
...
I think we, America, can change all of that... not by pretending that these past errors did not occur... rather to try to make amends for them. We can start by admitting to past indescretions and trying to move forward towards better relations. Changing our foriegn policy to help the people of other nations, instead of trying to expand our economic base is a good place to start.
America is not the only country with flaws. The British Empire was extremly brutal in their colonies. The Russians have the blood spilt by Stalin on their hands and Italy cannot erase the stink of the Roman Empire and the deaths caused by their Catholic Church from their past.
...
I happen to love America. Mostly based on our Constitution and Bill Of Rights. I am aslo ashamed at some of the terrible things we have been involved with. I believe we are better than that. i believe we should provide a shining example of what other people could have, if they wish for it. I believe we should help when we are called to help, instead of drafting plans to expand our wealth. I believe God does not only bless America... He blesses everyone.
If i'm considered to be an extremist because of these beliefs by others... that's not my call to make. I'm just trying to fit my country, the one I love, into the changing world.
Hail, Hail!!!
Nice touch.
why do you keep following me around? get a fucking life, seriously. you act is getting really old and well past annoying and childish.
excellent points, all the way round, but most especially the part i bolded. from the OP alone you can easily read bias, as in, the OP's own interpretation/spin of posts made in this forum....b/c there are a few of em i know quite well, were not written nor expressed as 'simply' as the OP infers. just sayin'.
and 'where you stand'....can even be right here in the USA, and STILL have vastly different perspectives on many of these topics.
that said, i've not read past this excellent post....so if this thread moved already into an entirely different direction already, my apologies...;)
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
True that. Actually, I'm still waiting for my priest or any priest to mention to my parish to pray for Osama Bin Laden.
mine did. and this was shortly after 9/11. his sermon was actually something along the lines of forgiveness though. and before everyone labels me and some bible toting fundamentalist Christian....I am actually a C&E Catholic
Hail Hail HIPPIEMOM
Wishlist Foundation-
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
info@wishlistfoundation.org
Yeah, I have no fucking clue because you say I do, just like I'm new posting here. People's names change. I've been posting here for years but the new board and my old name couldn't see eye to eye on my email. And speaking of change, take the change and buy yourself a clue while you're at it. Everything's a crock of shit when you don't want to hear it and can't counter it because it happens to be true. A family member of mine just returned from a European country where she didn't call herself Canadian, but where she did say that if people saw you as American, they were far more critical of you than they seemed to be if you weren't. (She was there for months, and said that with the election of Obama some of this eased.) Other family members traveled to North Africa, where they were specifically instructed to say they were Canadian to help insure their personal safety. My professor of mathematics indicated that he says he's Canadian when he visits certain parts of South America. So, you see...money isn't everything. And besides, money isn't what it once was...especially not our money against things like the Euro. And our money has tended to benefit those to whom benefit always accrue, not to the average citizen of any country. So, the average citizen has no reason to like us when they see American money making a mini flood right into their country and right into the hands of the most corrupt and not themselves.
I've been to South America as well, namely Brazil and Peru. Very friendly people and loved that I was American. a friend of mine travels to Columbia all the time now because American guys are treated like rock stars in the clubs. never once did I feel unsafe about being American in any country..
now if I travel to Pakistan you might be right. so yea, you got me there :roll:
A fair number of those are hardly extremist positions.
"extremist position" is an objective term...and my opinion. feel free to disagree.
You mean subjective?
Calm down their champ.
And you statement says way more about the idiots that live in the other country than the visiting American. If some idiot Italian, French, German, etc wants to dislike someone for being from America, they are are f'in moron. Vice versa.
oops right
personally i blame the music.
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
the first rule of fight club is that you don't discuss fight club.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!