The Number Notebook for GA is horrifically flawed.

presentents · November 2013

Dear all type A PJ fans, some things you can't control and GA is one of them. Fan appointed notebook that only the informed few know about is a horrifically flawed and elitist system that should be stopped immediately. The idea is fine however only if done by Pearl Jam. They are the only ones that could commucate to all GA ticket holders that a system like this would exist. If you don't know that you could get your tickets at 2 and leave and come back and cut the line that someone that didn't know stood in line for hours and got cut that is bullshit. End this practice. If you want to be in the front get here at 11 and stand just like any other GA system ever.

ekwipt · November 2013

Agreed. You gotta stay and wait it out (bathroom breaks excluded of course) if you wanna be on the rail. If I'd been waiting in line for hours and someone waved a notebook at me saying they could cut the line things would get ugly.

bootlegger10 · November 2013

Agree. The number if used should only prove your spot when you leave for 20 minutes to use the restroom.

shortstack · November 2013

presentents wrote:

If you want to be in the front get here at 11 and stand just like any other GA system ever.

indeed

dwhite76 · November 2013

The best part is when people call their friends from the hotel and tell them to write their name down and ask what number they need to wright on their hand while still in the hotel.

Mamasan Bren · November 2013

Exactly. No fan should be in charge. I couldn't agree more. It's not waiting if you're not in line waiting. Theses Adolph Listlers make it a race to come early and touch the spot, go off all day doing as they please, and return expecting their saved spot due to their name being on "the list". So stupid. It ain't right and needs to be stopped. You can't expect someone who's truly in line all day and has to move back because others return saying that they're on the list to be able to throw them out. They of course can't legally throw somebody out for abusing this way. The list just allows people to abuse the actual waiting. Some people are true blue about quick leavings and that's fine. But others use "the list" to get away with getting out of the uncomfortable pain of actually having to wait to earn a good spot.

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dwhite76 · November 2013

Mamasan Bren wrote:

Exactly. No fan should be in charge. I couldn't agree more. It's not waiting if you're not in line waiting. Theses Adolph Listlers make it a race to come early and touch the spot, go off all day doing as they please, and return expecting their saved spot due to their name being on "the list". So stupid. It ain't right and needs to be stopped. You can't expect someone who's truly in line all day and has to move back because others return saying their on the list to be able to throw them out. They of course can't legally throw somebody out for abusing this way. The list just allows people to abuse the actual waiting. Some people are true blue about quick leavings and that's fine. But others use "the list" to get away with getting out of the uncomfortable pain of actually having to wait to earn a good spot.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=209312

Now I dont mind if one of the 2 that came as a pair went off and waited in the merch line.

DURP · November 2013

These and other complaints are why I see GA going away for the next US tour. I have heard a lot of people complain about how the whole thing is one big Charlie Foxtrot.

Mamasan Bren · November 2013

dwhite76 wrote:

Mamasan Bren wrote:

Exactly. No fan should be in charge. I couldn't agree more. It's not waiting if you're not in line waiting. Theses Adolph Listlers make it a race to come early and touch the spot, go off all day doing as they please, and return expecting their saved spot due to their name being on "the list". So stupid. It ain't right and needs to be stopped. You can't expect someone who's truly in line all day and has to move back because others return saying their on the list to be able to throw them out. They of course can't legally throw somebody out for abusing this way. The list just allows people to abuse the actual waiting. Some people are true blue about quick leavings and that's fine. But others use "the list" to get away with getting out of the uncomfortable pain of actually having to wait to earn a good spot.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=209312

Now I dont mind if one of the 2 that came as a pair went off and waited in the merch line.

Yes, I agree that's fine too. Though that can sometimes take awhile, if that's what they're doing and come right back, then that's ok in my book in the spirit of fandom to be able to grab merch for that show. There's really so much to it. I could see where some might not like that. But it's the pairs who arrive back, saying we're on the list, so....."sorry, now we're back at 5:30 and you have to deal with it. Here, look, it's ok, I have a number in magic marker on my hand that proves that at one point around 10 am, I was here..."

Bant · November 2013

:problem:

This is actually happening? What a joke. I didn't notice this at Hartford and I was there before the doors opened.

The people who run this "notebook" must be the same type of people who cry and start petitions because they didn't get Sevens.

SPEEDY MCCREADY · November 2013

dwhite76 wrote:

The best part is when people call their friends from the hotel and tell them to write their name down and ask what number they need to wright on their hand while still in the hotel.

Wow.

SPEEDY MCCREADY · November 2013

And exactly who are the people here who feel they can run this GA marker nonsense?
They are people from this board?
Who put themselves in charge?

63schoefflin · November 2013

Wait wtf? I haven't heard of this...Because if you are saying people are not standing in line the entire time and then slipping in, I would knock that person out. I had GA tix but I didn't bother going in until around 8:00 so I didn't see any of this.

The other thing is why the hell would the people in line not kick someone's ass for walking in front of line?

dimitrispearljam · November 2013

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

And exactly who are the people here who feel they can run this GA marker nonsense?
They are people from this board?
Who put themselves in charge?

its A Socialist Act Of Treason

63schoefflin · November 2013

dimitrispearljam wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

And exactly who are the people here who feel they can run this GA marker nonsense?
They are people from this board?
Who put themselves in charge?

its A Socialist Act Of Treason

I didn't know Obama was hitting the PJ shows. :corn:

vedderfan10 · November 2013

This how the same people are on the rail night after night, when this GA was to prevent that very thing from happening. That's why they had the lottery system...to mix it up a bit. Who the hell is anyone to tell anyone what number they are in line? Seriously. This is ridiculous beyond words.

63schoefflin · November 2013

Wait I am honestly confused about this thing. Why would someone let a person who wasn't there all day cut? I mean I wouldn't wait all day but if someone is going to do it, then they deserve it. Sounds like another elitist PJ fan move. :fp:

Bant · November 2013

63schoefflin wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

And exactly who are the people here who feel they can run this GA marker nonsense?
They are people from this board?
Who put themselves in charge?

its A Socialist Act Of Treason

I didn't know Obama was hitting the PJ shows. :corn:

No, but his biggest supporter just happens to front the band we all love so much.

:?

63schoefflin · November 2013

Ha, I know right. Good thing I am able to completely separate politics and music. Although it's funny how there hasn't been any support recently from him saying how good of a job he is doing.

But yeah, still no idea what this notebook thing is.

SPEEDY MCCREADY · November 2013

63schoefflin wrote:

Wait I am honestly confused about this thing. Why would someone let a person who wasn't there all day cut? I mean I wouldn't wait all day but if someone is going to do it, then they deserve it. Sounds like another elitist PJ fan move. :fp:

I would LOVE to know who these people are.
I mean seriously...
Where the fuck do they get off?
Elitist fucks, doesn't even begin to describe.

Leezestarr313 · November 2013

I think the rail is overrated. We had a fantastic time in row 6-8 in Philly, we had a great time in Buffalo far far back. I don't need to drink Ed's wine or have a tambourine to have a great show. The children who are in the front with their little signs that it is their first show get all the tambourines anyway :P

I will never line up for GA and get a number. I like what another person said in another thread. Following the band also means seeing new cities, exploring them and meeting fellow fans. All of this gets lost with the stupid rail frenzy. That wouldn't be my thing.
And GA is like a living organism, it changes and morphs. People have to go to the bathroom or feel dizzy because they haven't eaten or drunk anything the whole day... whatever, the mass is moving. People might loose their spot, and others move on. Let others enjoy what you had for a while. People need to loosen up, that's what they need to.

BF89905 · November 2013

Considering that I've seen fights over people jockeying for position to get at merchandise booths inside the Buffalo arena back in October, I don't see how people are permitted to 'resume' their spot in a GA line due to some asinine list. Be safe and enjoy the music.

noa.who · November 2013

I wouldn't mind the numbers as long as all the people with numbers are still standing in line throughout the day and it's just to prevent from late arrivers to push/sneak their way in line. Any other arrangement is bullshit.

63schoefflin · November 2013

A new low. I've never seen or heard of anything like this. I'd like to hear someone try and defend this if possible.

ambrasjes · November 2013

The only way someone can cut any line is when you (yes you) are letting them do so.
I'll be in that GA line shortly and there will be no such shenanigans on my watch.

In my opinion, you can leave the line for "pit stops" and reclaim your spot when you return within a reasonable period of time (= ASAP).

pit stop n.
1. Sports A stop at a pit for refueling or service during an automobile race.
2. Informal
a. A brief stop for rest and refreshment, especially during an automobile trip.
b. A place where such a stop is made.

So a Pit stop from the pit lane is allowed for: collecting your tickets, grab something to eat, go to the restroom, go buy something at the merch stand,... as long as you plan on being back in line As Soon As Possible.

If you get lost for hours and think that you can return and reclaim that spot you left hours ago, then you and I are going to have a problem. Shit like "my friend over there was keeping my spot in line" will not fly! Get out of the line!
You were supposed to be in that line all day. If I didn't see your face around during the day, you shall not pass. Get out of the line! When I'm certain that you didn't pass me on your way out of the line... Get out of the line! :nono:

The most important thing you have to do when leaving the line for a brief 'pit stop' is making sure that most people you pass have acknowledged you as a person being in front of them. You might even want to tell some of them what you plan on doing and when you think you will be back. As in "going to grab some take out from accross the street, will be back in 10. Anyone else hungry?" You can also ask someone who's leaving the line that: "May I ask where you are going and can I tag along?"

It's called social control and it will only work when it is enforced by everyone.

Thus far I think this was textbook "waiting in line for dummies".

Now let's add a "magic marker" and a "number notebook" to this and see where it all turns sour. :corn:

Well, it usually doesn't, unless you let it happen. When everyone focusses too much on "the numbers", but no one's paying attention to the people, that's when abuse occurs and people get mad.

That's why the "number notebook" can only be used as an auxiliary social control system, the actual social control is everyone's shared responsibility whilst waiting in line.

But I hear you, there's so much to do and so little time... whilst waiting in line all day

Hope to see you all in that line next week, we will have so much fun :twisted:

That being said, I'm ok with numbering myself like an animal, just don't expect me to turn into sheeple.

Love you, mean it.

63schoefflin · November 2013

Perfectly said. I mean I couldn't even imagine having the balls to walk out of line and then hours later come back and stand in line without feeling like a piece of shit. But hey, sounds like there are a group of people who lock down the front then come up with some bullshit to justify this. I am not even someone trying to gain anything from the GA lines (since I don't have any GA ticks to any shows) but this honestly is the most bizarre, childish thing I have ever seen.

Who the hell even thinks of something like this? I guess next time I will just leave the bar at 3am and walk over to the show. Pull a notebook out and then sign it, drop it by the door, and come back at 8:15 and walk in like my shit doesn't stink. Unbelievable...what a slap in the face from fellow 10clubbers.

PRL1JAM · November 2013

In the past, I have paid my dues and waited all day/night in order to be up front. If I left out of line it was only to use the bathroom, and fans around me have always been cool with that. I held their spot in line when they also needed to leave for a restroom break. I would never sign some unofficial "line order" sheet that some clown created with a sharpie and a napkin. Who the hell are these people creating these list in line?

tremor_chris · November 2013

You guys should try lining up for a Springsteen show in Europe. The first numbers get given out two days before the show. Seriously.

mrk2 · November 2013

tremor_chris wrote:

You guys should try lining up for a Springsteen show in Europe. The first numbers get given out two days before the show. Seriously.

But there the system actually works. The secret is : roll calls at given hours when you line up in the number order and people running the list check that everyone is actually there.

Between those you are free to go wherever... but if you miss a roll call, your name and number is off the list. On show days, there might be 2 hour breaks, but from something like 1pm you are supposed to stay in line. Everybody knows the system and is somewhat ok with it.

This way it is not possible to show up in the morning, wander off for the rest of the day and come back and try to reclaim your spot. That seems really fucked up.

buck502000 · November 2013

Sound live the proverbial goat rodeo or gong show. :fp:

ofthegirl75 · November 2013

I didn't even try for GA

The Number Notebook for GA is horrifically flawed.

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