I fell exactly the way you do... I have nothing good to say about the band or the Ten Club anymore. The music has gone downhill and all anyone cares about is merchandise. It's a joke! I still can't get over the fake Amsterdam trip giveaway to Jeff's friend. Everything that I post now is absolutely negative and I'm embarrassed when I read it back. I had seen 91 shows up through the '08 "Verizon" tour and was so disgusted at that point I boycotted shows for 5 years until Wrigley. I'm still trying to comprehend Wrigley... The band, the fans, it's like a whole different animal now. It's like a scripted corporate Broadway play. Just makes my stomach turn. With that, I join you in not posting or visiting the forums anymore.
Peace, love & empathy,
Haywood
I think your answer is honest and I thank you for that. What I don't get though is: if you believe the music is downhill and its all a joke or a Broadway play, why still a member of the fanclub? Maybe the click is gone. Maybe it is time to move onward. Thats all ok. But these posts sometimes sounds to me like these "bad relationships" that people are stuck into, while they should be heading out the door. If PJ is so dissapointing for you, even to the extent that you boycott them, why still invest? It is this element, that I don't understand and seems to me a complete and utter waste of valuable time that we call "life".
What a thread! I just had to chime in. I'm still figuring sirens out. Right now I don't have super strong feelings on it either way. I think they've been experimenting with more traditional pop type songs for a while.. actually, they've sort of always had that element. Some of their great stuff going all the way back to betterman is pretty much classic pop songwriting. I can definitely see a connection from come back to speed of sound to sirens. Also, I think they're long over trying not to have hits. Having said that, Sirens is almost 6 minutes long! Unlikely to be a big radio hit I'm afraid.
What a thread! I just had to chime in. I'm still figuring sirens out. Right now I don't have super strong feelings on it either way. I think they've been experimenting with more traditional pop type songs for a while.. actually, they've sort of always had that element. Some of their great stuff going all the way back to betterman is pretty much classic pop songwriting. I can definitely see a connection from come back to speed of sound to sirens. Also, I think they're long over trying not to have hits. Having said that, Sirens is almost 6 minutes long! Unlikely to be a big radio hit I'm afraid.
Agreed. Plus the structure of the song is simply not as accesable as most radio songs. I like the depth of it. The solo. The singing and vocals. Debating with myself about the music however. It is (from a music perpspective) an interesting song though, for it is played tied, and carried mostly on a vocal line. It is often the other way around. Music gives the structure, on this song however it seems that the vocal melody structures the song... That why it seems so elusive. I think, for me, I have to hear the song in the context of the whole album.
I just can't get into this song at all. I've never liked pop music and this song whether people will admit it or not is a pop song. Also I don't see how people can compare whats going on with Sirens to what happened with no code. With No Code that band was still evolving and now it sounds like they are dumbing down their music. Not bashing the band but I'm just not impressed with what has come out so far, with either song.
I just can't get into this song at all. I've never liked pop music and this song whether people will admit it or not is a pop song. Also I don't see how people can compare whats going on with Sirens to what happened with no code. With No Code that band was still evolving and now it sounds like they are dumbing down their music. Not bashing the band but I'm just not impressed with what has come out so far, with either song.
Pearl Jam has always flirted with pop songs. Daughter, Corudroy, Betterman, Given to Fly, Sad - just to name a few. They experimented with different genres and "pop" was and have always been one of them.
I just can't get into this song at all. I've never liked pop music and this song whether people will admit it or not is a pop song. Also I don't see how people can compare whats going on with Sirens to what happened with no code. With No Code that band was still evolving and now it sounds like they are dumbing down their music. Not bashing the band but I'm just not impressed with what has come out so far, with either song.
When I say pop I don't mean "modern pop radio format", I mean pop like popular music. A traditional pop song as opposed to a folk song or classical piece, or experimental art music or something. PJ are somewhat "alternative", but they're still basically playing popular music. At least that's how I see it.
I just can't get into this song at all. I've never liked pop music and this song whether people will admit it or not is a pop song. Also I don't see how people can compare whats going on with Sirens to what happened with no code. With No Code that band was still evolving and now it sounds like they are dumbing down their music. Not bashing the band but I'm just not impressed with what has come out so far, with either song.
When I say pop I don't mean "modern pop radio format", I mean pop like popular music. A traditional pop song as opposed to a folk song or classical piece, or experimental art music or something. PJ are somewhat "alternative", but they're still basically playing popular music. At least that's how I see it.
Well, they are deff. not Tool... I always liked the fact that they played diff. genres, and were able to do so. Popular / pop has always been one of the genres. Rock, experimental too. They even played traditional music, (Hummus anyone?) That is the strength of PJ; they don't have one specific style, but do have a specific sound. That is unique, I think. I don't mind poppier songs, for I know there will be other genres on the album. But I am with you Ghost, I also try to wrap my fingers around this song. Do not dislike it, but there is something with the structure that is diff. to me and yet tickles me at the same time. It is like they had a typical "pop" song and put it in a blender...
I fell exactly the way you do... I have nothing good to say about the band or the Ten Club anymore. The music has gone downhill and all anyone cares about is merchandise. It's a joke! I still can't get over the fake Amsterdam trip giveaway to Jeff's friend. Everything that I post now is absolutely negative and I'm embarrassed when I read it back. I had seen 91 shows up through the '08 "Verizon" tour and was so disgusted at that point I boycotted shows for 5 years until Wrigley. I'm still trying to comprehend Wrigley... The band, the fans, it's like a whole different animal now. It's like a scripted corporate Broadway play. Just makes my stomach turn. With that, I join you in not posting or visiting the forums anymore.
Peace, love & empathy,
Haywood
91 shows!?! Good god man. Don't give up now! You should get a goddamn medal, veteran. Have the crowds started to let you down? Do you still like hearing them play the older stuff? What's this conspiracy about the Amsterdam show? :?:
You know I respect you, O22. I've been reading your posts awhile now and you've always been intelligent with what you say and basically respectful when you say it. But I sure hope you're wrong. Not only about the album, not only about fans leaving in droves (which would be a shame), but about our band being dead. These are the same guys that wrote all the stuff we love. I just can't believe there's not one redeeming song in the whole lot for you. Please. Say it ain't so, O.
Kimmie, that is very sweet of you to write. You're awesome and one of the examples of why it's been so great to hang out around here for the last 10 or so years.
Hell, I've loved this band for what? almost 23 years? I even have them tattooed on my arm! I'll always love them but people change. Pearl Jam has changed and I have to accept that and move on. It's cool that you and others like the direction they've taken but it's just not for me. I'll still be going to the upcoming shows and won't be letting my membership laps or anything like that but this is my last post and visit to the forums. I don't have anything positive left to say and don't want to continue being a snarky asshole. I've made a lot of friends on here and wish you guys all the best. Hope you all enjoy the new music and shows.
I just can't get into this song at all. I've never liked pop music and this song whether people will admit it or not is a pop song. Also I don't see how people can compare whats going on with Sirens to what happened with no code. With No Code that band was still evolving and now it sounds like they are dumbing down their music. Not bashing the band but I'm just not impressed with what has come out so far, with either song.
When I say pop I don't mean "modern pop radio format", I mean pop like popular music. A traditional pop song as opposed to a folk song or classical piece, or experimental art music or something. PJ are somewhat "alternative", but they're still basically playing popular music. At least that's how I see it.
Well, they are deff. not Tool... I always liked the fact that they played diff. genres, and were able to do so. Popular / pop has always been one of the genres. Rock, experimental too. They even played traditional music, (Hummus anyone?) That is the strength of PJ; they don't have one specific style, but do have a specific sound. That is unique, I think. I don't mind poppier songs, for I know there will be other genres on the album. But I am with you Ghost, I also try to wrap my fingers around this song. Do not dislike it, but there is something with the structure that is diff. to me and yet tickles me at the same time. It is like they had a typical "pop" song and put it in a blender...
yeah, I think it's pretty unique. My theory is that it isn't so much the pop-ness that people don't like, it's little things like the opening, dramatic drum fills (very pink floydish I think) and the soaring, emotional melody... almost like a torch song. PJ can often be bombastic and emotive, but this song doesn't have the edgy quality they usually balance it with.
Sirens reminds me of an '80's power ballad. Like from Firehouse, Damn Yankees, etc...
I am trying to give this song the benefit of the doubt because it is a PJ song but I completely agree with you. If Nickelback released this song people would be hatin'. I listened to it probably 30 or 40 times in the last two days. I do think that when it hits radio it will be a huge hit but, I don't considered that a good thing.
But what is wrong with that? Whats wrong with them having a #1 or a BIG radio hit?? Just curious as to why folks are so opposed/scared of this?
Some people don't want them to be big again. They think they own the band and don't want to share them. These are the same people who bitch when they don't get tickets to every show they want.
I am trying to give this song the benefit of the doubt because it is a PJ song but I completely agree with you. If Nickelback released this song people would be hatin'. I listened to it probably 30 or 40 times in the last two days. I do think that when it hits radio it will be a huge hit but, I don't considered that a good thing.
But what is wrong with that? Whats wrong with them having a #1 or a BIG radio hit?? Just curious as to why folks are so opposed/scared of this?
Some people don't want them to be big again. They think they own the band and don't want to share them. These are the same people who bitch when they don't get tickets to every show they want.
It's just hipster mentality. I don't get it either. I want every new PJ song to be as successful as possible because wishing anything else would be the same as wishing that they are unsuccessful, which is a pretty strange thing to wish for your favorite band, but hipsters do it all the time.
How many hipsters does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
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It's a pretty obscure number. You've probably never heard of it.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
But what is wrong with that? Whats wrong with them having a #1 or a BIG radio hit?? Just curious as to why folks are so opposed/scared of this?
Some people don't want them to be big again. They think they own the band and don't want to share them. These are the same people who bitch when they don't get tickets to every show they want.
It's just hipster mentality. I don't get it either. I want every new PJ song to be as successful as possible because wishing anything else would be the same as wishing that they are unsuccessful, which is a pretty strange thing to wish for your favorite band, but hipsters do it all the time.
How many hipsters does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
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It's a pretty obscure number. You've probably never heard of it.
I think that some people don't seem to grasp that the music industry has changed and that PJ is independent now, with prob. a lot of people depended on them. That will change the rules of engagement in anyway. I think they really try to seek this balance between relaying boundaries on one hand, but also holding on to what they have achieved on the other. This is a diffecult balance, but so far they have pulled it off...
Im having a really tough time already not putting these lyrics right up there with some of the best that ed has ever written...Stone makes it just that much better with the haunting guitar he is playing hitting every note right where it needs to be.......I know I am in the minority what with all the hubbub about this song and all.... but I am just taken in by this song....over and over, I cant stop listening....Havent been this over the top for a song since Black..... :shock:
My friend was going to see Eddie last night. Since he was in Vegas, I gave him 5 Grand to gamble with. I told him I wanted it all to go on Black. Bastard! PhillyCrownOfThorns-11-2-12
Im having a really tough time already not putting these lyrics right up there with some of the best that ed has ever written...Stone makes it just that much better with the haunting guitar he is playing hitting every note right where it needs to be.......I know I am in the minority what with all the hubbub about this song and all.... but I am just taken in by this song....over and over, I cant stop listening....Havent been this over the top for a song since Black..... :shock:
I really believe, that sometime in the future, this song will be considered one of PJ's masterpieces!!
I am trying to give this song the benefit of the doubt because it is a PJ song but I completely agree with you. If Nickelback released this song people would be hatin'. I listened to it probably 30 or 40 times in the last two days. I do think that when it hits radio it will be a huge hit but, I don't considered that a good thing.
But what is wrong with that? Whats wrong with them having a #1 or a BIG radio hit?? Just curious as to why folks are so opposed/scared of this?
Maybe people don't like it because it's not a good song.
I love pop. This is not a good pop song. It's lame, saccharine, over composed, and trying too hard. The Nickelback comparison is spot on.
The comparisons with Who You Are really shows how people are desperate to portray Sirens as something that it isn't. Who You Are was such an inventive track and to have it be a single was probably a bit perverse, but in terms of musical content, it is a no contest.
If Nickelback released this song people would be hatin'.
You've got to be kidding. Nickelback???!
If Nickelback released this track people would say it's a fucking miracle. They'd be clutching their bibles expecting to be raptured any moment, because Nickelback writing a song even 10% this good would be a sign of the end times. And I don't even think it's that great a track. But seriously... Nickelback???
If Nickelback released this song people would be hatin'.
You've got to be kidding. Nickelback???!
If Nickelback released this track people would say it's a fucking miracle. They'd be clutching their bibles expecting to be raptured any moment, because Nickelback writing a song even 10% this good would be a sign of the end times. And I don't even think it's that great a track. But seriously... Nickelback???
If Nickelback released this song people would be hatin'.
You could give Nickelback a thousand years, and they could never write this song. They could write a song that *sounds* like this song, maybe, but they could never write this song.
They are too stupid and shallow (IMO).
This song has depth.
It is depth you probably don't get if all you hear is the "pop-sounding" music and harmonies. You have to get over the urge to make comparisons about what the song *sounds* like and listen to what it's *about.*
It is not a saccharine love song, which is what most power ballads are.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
But what is wrong with that? Whats wrong with them having a #1 or a BIG radio hit?? Just curious as to why folks are so opposed/scared of this?
Some people don't want them to be big again. They think they own the band and don't want to share them. These are the same people who bitch when they don't get tickets to every show they want.
Big again?
I think they were only small for a couple months in the very beginning. They pretty much have been the biggest band on the planet for some time now. Only when the Rolling Stones come out for a tour, once in a while, do they have any competition. Some people consider U2 big but IMO PJ's music is superior so I don't count them. You don't get any bigger than PJ is. And you don't sell out arenas when you're "small"
They are always mentioned with the best of the best and if you've paid attention....Eddie has had the opportunity to sing along with almost every legend I can think of. Plant, Jagger, he sang lead for the Doors, ect. ect.
Robert Plant just doesn't sing along with anyone. True musicians recognize greatness, just as true musicians can recognize a great song on first listen. Ed doesn't get to join them because he's run of the mill, or the latest fad, they invite him because he's as good or better than they are.
I think people don't like the song, simply because they don't like the song and it is arranged like a Nickleback song, basic arrangement, movie soundtrack like. This song could be in that Spiderman movie and fit right in.
Tons of people love this kind of stuff so it's not a surprise lots of people are gonna love it and already do.
I don't understand why it's so hard to understand some people don't like it.
They must be unicorns or hipsters or want the band to play friends basements again.
Oh dear dad
Can you see me now
I am myself
Like you somehow
I'll ride the wave
Where it takes me
I'll hold the pain
Release me
If Nickelback released this song people would be hatin'.
You could give Nickelback a thousand years, and they could never write this song. They could write a song that *sounds* like this song, maybe, but they could never write this song.
They are too stupid and shallow (IMO).
This song has depth.
It is depth you probably don't get if all you hear is the "pop-sounding" music and harmonies. You have to get over the urge to make comparisons about what the song *sounds* like and listen to what it's *about.*
It is not a saccharine love song, which is what most power ballads are.
It's not the writing, it's the style/arrangement. If someone could edit out the nickelback song in spiderman and insert this one, you would better understand where everyone is coming from.
A lot of people love that Nickelback song, and a lot of PJ fans joke about Nickelback all the time.
Oh dear dad
Can you see me now
I am myself
Like you somehow
I'll ride the wave
Where it takes me
I'll hold the pain
Release me
I think they were only small for a couple months in the very beginning. They pretty much have been the biggest band on the planet for some time now. Only when the Rolling Stones come out for a tour, once in a while, do they have any competition. Some people consider U2 big but IMO PJ's music is superior so I don't count them. You don't get any bigger than PJ is. And you don't sell out arenas when you're "small"
They are always mentioned with the best of the best and if you've paid attention....Eddie has had the opportunity to sing along with almost every legend I can think of. Plant, Jagger, he sang lead for the Doors, ect. ect.
Robert Plant just doesn't sing along with anyone. True musicians recognize greatness, just as true musicians can recognize a great song on first listen. Ed doesn't get to join them because he's run of the mill, or the latest fad, they invite him because he's as good or better than they are.
I think people don't like the song, simply because they don't like the song and it is arranged like a Nickleback song, basic arrangement, movie soundtrack like. This song could be in that Spiderman movie and fit right in.
Tons of people love this kind of stuff so it's not a surprise lots of people are gonna love it and already do.
I don't understand why it's so hard to understand some people don't like it.
They must be unicorns or hipsters or want the band to play friends basements again.
They're a pretty big band but far from the biggest band on the planet, and haven't been for close to 20 years.
I do think people are trying to make more of this song than what it is. The arrangement is pretty standard, and while there is a bit more depth to lyrics than your average rock song there is also some stuff that is pretty cheesy and ham-handed.
You can like it, love it or hate it but let's not act like its some revolutionary tune, highly original, or much beyond a long pop power pop love song. I think it's a fine song, but it's clear there's some unwarranted justification.
Comments
I think your answer is honest and I thank you for that. What I don't get though is: if you believe the music is downhill and its all a joke or a Broadway play, why still a member of the fanclub? Maybe the click is gone. Maybe it is time to move onward. Thats all ok. But these posts sometimes sounds to me like these "bad relationships" that people are stuck into, while they should be heading out the door. If PJ is so dissapointing for you, even to the extent that you boycott them, why still invest? It is this element, that I don't understand and seems to me a complete and utter waste of valuable time that we call "life".
I am honestly curious.
It's growing up just like me.
Wrong thread. You're looking for 'Is Say, Say, Say the most polarizing Michael Jackson/Paul McCartney song ever' thread.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Agreed. Plus the structure of the song is simply not as accesable as most radio songs. I like the depth of it. The solo. The singing and vocals. Debating with myself about the music however. It is (from a music perpspective) an interesting song though, for it is played tied, and carried mostly on a vocal line. It is often the other way around. Music gives the structure, on this song however it seems that the vocal melody structures the song... That why it seems so elusive. I think, for me, I have to hear the song in the context of the whole album.
Pearl Jam has always flirted with pop songs. Daughter, Corudroy, Betterman, Given to Fly, Sad - just to name a few. They experimented with different genres and "pop" was and have always been one of them.
When I say pop I don't mean "modern pop radio format", I mean pop like popular music. A traditional pop song as opposed to a folk song or classical piece, or experimental art music or something. PJ are somewhat "alternative", but they're still basically playing popular music. At least that's how I see it.
Well, they are deff. not Tool... I always liked the fact that they played diff. genres, and were able to do so. Popular / pop has always been one of the genres. Rock, experimental too. They even played traditional music, (Hummus anyone?) That is the strength of PJ; they don't have one specific style, but do have a specific sound. That is unique, I think. I don't mind poppier songs, for I know there will be other genres on the album. But I am with you Ghost, I also try to wrap my fingers around this song. Do not dislike it, but there is something with the structure that is diff. to me and yet tickles me at the same time. It is like they had a typical "pop" song and put it in a blender...
yeah, I think it's pretty unique. My theory is that it isn't so much the pop-ness that people don't like, it's little things like the opening, dramatic drum fills (very pink floydish I think) and the soaring, emotional melody... almost like a torch song. PJ can often be bombastic and emotive, but this song doesn't have the edgy quality they usually balance it with.
Some people don't want them to be big again. They think they own the band and don't want to share them. These are the same people who bitch when they don't get tickets to every show they want.
How many hipsters does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
It's a pretty obscure number. You've probably never heard of it.
I think that some people don't seem to grasp that the music industry has changed and that PJ is independent now, with prob. a lot of people depended on them. That will change the rules of engagement in anyway. I think they really try to seek this balance between relaying boundaries on one hand, but also holding on to what they have achieved on the other. This is a diffecult balance, but so far they have pulled it off...
As for the popularity of Sirens, I think it's great for the band. They seem to be in a great place & should welcome the success of the song & album.
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com
"Free Shipping" SPEEDY MCCREADY
My friend was going to see Eddie last night. Since he was in Vegas, I gave him 5 Grand to gamble with. I told him I wanted it all to go on Black. Bastard! PhillyCrownOfThorns-11-2-12
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Is the fortune that you need
I really believe, that sometime in the future, this song will be considered one of PJ's masterpieces!!
Maybe people don't like it because it's not a good song.
I love pop. This is not a good pop song. It's lame, saccharine, over composed, and trying too hard. The Nickelback comparison is spot on.
The comparisons with Who You Are really shows how people are desperate to portray Sirens as something that it isn't. Who You Are was such an inventive track and to have it be a single was probably a bit perverse, but in terms of musical content, it is a no contest.
You've got to be kidding. Nickelback???!
If Nickelback released this track people would say it's a fucking miracle. They'd be clutching their bibles expecting to be raptured any moment, because Nickelback writing a song even 10% this good would be a sign of the end times. And I don't even think it's that great a track. But seriously... Nickelback???
In your opinion. Why do people not seem to grasp this?
for the least they could possibly do
You could give Nickelback a thousand years, and they could never write this song. They could write a song that *sounds* like this song, maybe, but they could never write this song.
They are too stupid and shallow (IMO).
This song has depth.
It is depth you probably don't get if all you hear is the "pop-sounding" music and harmonies. You have to get over the urge to make comparisons about what the song *sounds* like and listen to what it's *about.*
It is not a saccharine love song, which is what most power ballads are.
for the least they could possibly do
Big again?
I think they were only small for a couple months in the very beginning. They pretty much have been the biggest band on the planet for some time now. Only when the Rolling Stones come out for a tour, once in a while, do they have any competition. Some people consider U2 big but IMO PJ's music is superior so I don't count them. You don't get any bigger than PJ is. And you don't sell out arenas when you're "small"
They are always mentioned with the best of the best and if you've paid attention....Eddie has had the opportunity to sing along with almost every legend I can think of. Plant, Jagger, he sang lead for the Doors, ect. ect.
Robert Plant just doesn't sing along with anyone. True musicians recognize greatness, just as true musicians can recognize a great song on first listen. Ed doesn't get to join them because he's run of the mill, or the latest fad, they invite him because he's as good or better than they are.
I think people don't like the song, simply because they don't like the song and it is arranged like a Nickleback song, basic arrangement, movie soundtrack like. This song could be in that Spiderman movie and fit right in.
Tons of people love this kind of stuff so it's not a surprise lots of people are gonna love it and already do.
I don't understand why it's so hard to understand some people don't like it.
They must be unicorns or hipsters or want the band to play friends basements again.
Can you see me now
I am myself
Like you somehow
I'll ride the wave
Where it takes me
I'll hold the pain
Release me
It's not the writing, it's the style/arrangement. If someone could edit out the nickelback song in spiderman and insert this one, you would better understand where everyone is coming from.
A lot of people love that Nickelback song, and a lot of PJ fans joke about Nickelback all the time.
Can you see me now
I am myself
Like you somehow
I'll ride the wave
Where it takes me
I'll hold the pain
Release me
They're a pretty big band but far from the biggest band on the planet, and haven't been for close to 20 years.
I do think people are trying to make more of this song than what it is. The arrangement is pretty standard, and while there is a bit more depth to lyrics than your average rock song there is also some stuff that is pretty cheesy and ham-handed.
You can like it, love it or hate it but let's not act like its some revolutionary tune, highly original, or much beyond a long pop power pop love song. I think it's a fine song, but it's clear there's some unwarranted justification.