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US rejects ban on cluster bombs
Commy
Posts: 4,984
http://rawstory.com/news/afp/US_rejects_ban_on_cluster_bombs_02232007.html
Major countries like Britain and France have signed....apparently the US has to have all those unexploded ordinances lying around to remind the invaded country that they are a conquered people.
Major countries like Britain and France have signed....apparently the US has to have all those unexploded ordinances lying around to remind the invaded country that they are a conquered people.
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take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Those UXO's are top priority for Sappers and EOD.
We shouldn't ban them, they are extremely effective.
and then there's all the mines and uxo in panama and other latin american countries...in cases like panama we were even ordered to clean it up, but we haven't gotten around to it yet...
and there's always the du weaponry we leave lying around kosovo, afghanistan, iraq....
you are exactly right, it's used to remind them of their place
can't be too surprised, we are above everyone else
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
OMG LOL :rolleyes:
the medical community doesn't find it too funny
you forgot to include a point
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Really? Cause I got this doctor friend that would love to hear how funny and off the wall your commentary is.
Because that's funny as shit.
what was funny?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
It's funny to see how someone can be so ideologically radical, that they fail to look at things from a different or larger perspective.
well, no matter how you look at it it's disgusting
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
That's good.
i don't want to see the perspective that rationalizes poisoning a lot of ppl that had nothing to do w/ any reason for a war w/ du munitions
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
You think there's UXO in Iraq from the ground war?
there is still du munitions from the first gulf war! might not be uxo, but it's just as bad
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
That wasn't my question.
Do you think there are still UXO's in IRAQ that are left over from the ground war?
and actually, i found this as the 2nd or 3rd link on google
http://aec.army.mil/usaec/publicaffairs/update/fall03/fall0301.html
Part of that work has been removal of unexploded ordnance (UXO) throughout the country. Task Force Restore Iraqi Oil (RIO), the Army Corps of Engineers team working to rebuild a key component of the nation’s economy, found its work made even more difficult by the UXO challenge.
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
So I take it your in agreement with me?
There are no UXO's (that the US knows of) left in Iraq.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=cluster+bombs+iraq
i don't know if they are all cleaned up or not and neither do you.
what about the du munitions? am i not seeing the grand perspective of those?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
That's why I said (that the US knows of). But I can safely say the vast majority of it was destroyed when I was there in 03/04.
DU's a mother fucker. A very good weapon, but with adverse long term effects.
To think we use these types of weapons to show are superiority is ridiculous. They are effective. BLU-42's are also psychological, but not in the way you think.
so you seem to know a bit about this...let me ask you a question that's been bothering me for a while now.
How come the cluster canisters are yellow cans, and the food rations that the US distributes also happen to come in these similarly packaged containers? Was that just a fuckup on the design or what? little kids can't tell the difference...shit i probably couldn't.
And it seems fairly obvious that if task forces have been created to clear UXO's that they are indeed a problem in Iraq. Not to mention a problem in a another dozen or so countries the US has been involved in.
I seem to, because it was my job.
Yeah task forces following the ground war and through the first occupation. Check the date on that story.
The cluster bombs we use are distributed via plane, or MLRS. There called Blu42's. They are green in color. All explosive military munitions are green in color. Blue signifies a training aid, and I've never seen anything yellow before.
http://www.big-ordnance.com/subs/BLU42B_mine3.JPG.psd.jpg
And I thought we drop yellow rubber mre bags filled with food.
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/10/29/ret.bomb.warnings/story.aid.jpg
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/cbu87_31.jpg
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/blu97-3.jpg
naděje umírá poslední
Neat, I've never seen those before, probably because they're being phased out due to their high rate of dud factors.
The only kind of cluster ammunition I ever saw in Iraq, were the Blu-42's. Which can be nasty if they don't go off. And it did seem like there was a bunch of them, but probably cause we fired a ton of them.
But a small green bomblet in no way looks like an MRE bag. I can see the Blu-97's but not the 42's. And considering I didn't personally see one old school cluster bomb the entire year I was there, I wouldn't say it's a problem in Baghdad. They're used for tank columns and vehicle motorpools, so I'm sure there was a ton of these things used in the southern and northern deserts.
Atleast we're making an effort.
"The United States military has recognized that the high failure rate of its existing stockpile of cluster munitions poses unacceptable risks to both U.S. forces and civilian populations. Efforts are underway to improve the reliability of newly produced cluster munitions. As a result of a new policy decision in 2001, weapons with submunitions produced after 2005 are required to be 99 percent reliable.23 A contract was awarded in February 2003 to manufacture 500,000 self-destruct fuzes for M915 105mm DPICM artillery projectiles.24 Funds to remanufacture and retrofit 24,345 M864 155mm DPICM projectiles with self-destruct fuzes were requested in the fiscal year 2004-2005 ammunition procurement budget request.25 Plans to produce a new generation of MLRS rockets with self-destruct fuzes for submunitions are also being developed.26"
Here's the thing with landmines. We are supposedly only using Anti-Tank land mines. We haven't used anti-personell for a long time.
The three main personally surface laid mines the military uses are the M15, M19, M21.The 21 takes 290 pounds of pressure to go off. The others a little more.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/atm.htm
I weigh 230 pounds, add a 50 pound pack, 12 pound weapon, body armor and other miscellaneous shit and I'm easily at the 300 mark.
The only time I know of that we use surface laid Anti-personell mines are through a MOPMS. It's like a big suitcase that explodes shooting mines everywhere. 4 of the mines it shoots out are Anti-Personnell.
http://ccsweb.pica.army.mil/1networked/mopms.htm
I am not a fan of buried land mines, AT or AP. They cause problems for decades, and fuck everybody up. I'm actually trying to organize one of these, "night of a thousand dinners" thing.
http://www.landmines.org/
They are extremely effective? I guess if you are targetting non-combatants, apparently.
"A recent report by Handicap International claimed that 98 percent of casualties from cluster munitions are non-combatants."
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I would very much like to read that report Angelica. Could you please provide a link?
We shouldn't ban them, we should make them more effective. And as of 2005, we have.
During the first gulf, some Iraqi army guys got on an open net and begged us to "Stop the Rain of Metal". They then quickly surrendered.
Goes to show how this stuff works psychologically too.
edit: it looks like for those interested, the report can be downloaded here: http://www.handicap-international.org.uk/page_347.php
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Okay.
So the 98% is the percentage of civilians who die are the ones who encounter the bomblets as Unexploded Ordnance.
For a second I thought the initial firing of the weapon itself.
So if we tighten the effectiveness of the bomblets to destroy upon impact, less UXO. And less UXO means less civilian casualties in the long run.
So as of 2005, we have to have a 99% effectiveness rating. That's pretty good. And it's a great step forward.
And seriously, that really was our top mission in Iraq once the ground war ended and everything settled, was finding, collecting and destroying those things.
Here's a cool pic of an MLRS firing a rocket. I got a buddy who left the engineers to go do this stuff.
http://www.enemyforces.com/artillery/mlrs_2.jpg
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!