Can you please clarify as to what you mean by this.
No problem.
So lets say we fire a rocket that shoots out 10000 bomblets.
At least 9900 of those bomblets now HAVE to go off.
So a maximum number of POSSIBLE UXO is 100 or less.
Whereas before if a rocket fired 10000 bomblets, 710 weren't detonating. That's the percentage of the old system of those yellow Blu-97's I've never seen before were doing.
So lets say we fire a rocket that shoots out 10000 bomblets.
At least 9900 of those bomblets now HAVE to go off.
So a maximum number of POSSIBLE UXO is 100 or less.
Whereas before if a rocket fired 10000 bomblets, 710 weren't detonating. That's the percentage of the old system of those yellow Blu-97's I've never seen before were doing.
Thank-you for the clarification sapperskunk. This is what I'm getting. Apparently cluster bombs are effective under such situations:
"These munitions spread their contents over a large field, with a radius of up to 600 m. They can destroy broad targets like airfields and surface-to-air missile sites. They are also effective against targets that move or do not have precise locations, such as enemy troops or vehicles."
if a rocket fires 10 000 bomblets, and the target is an airfield or surface-to-air missile site, or a broad area containing say, 50 moving targets, the bomblets that do detonate, whether it's 80% or 99% will still only kill/destroy the limited fixed expected target. For example the airfield. Or 50 moving targets. What is detonated can only kill/destroy the projected enemy target that is there in that moment.
And the unexploded ordnance that are left, whether 710 or 100 will STILL kill virtually 100% if not exactly 100% civilians as easily as being disturbed or touched. edit: this virtual 100% of victims could equal 20 people or 500 people. We cannot know. What we do know is that cluster bombs have a disturbing potential lethal legacy to innocent human beings that seems disturbingly disproportionate to the initial purpose.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Thank-you for the clarification sapperskunk. This is what I'm getting. Apparently cluster bombs are effective under such situations:
"These munitions spread their contents over a large field, with a radius of up to 600 m. They can destroy broad targets like airfields and surface-to-air missile sites. They are also effective against targets that move or do not have precise locations, such as enemy troops or vehicles."
if a rocket fires 10 000 bomblets, and the target is an airfield or surface-to-air missile site, or a broad area containing say, 50 moving targets, the bomblets that do detonate, whether it's 80% or 99% will still only kill/destroy the limited fixed expected target. For example the airfield. Or 50 moving targets. What is detonated can only kill/destroy the projected enemy target that is there in that moment.
And the unexploded ordnance that are left, whether 710 or 100 will STILL kill virtually 100% if not exactly 100% civilians as easily as being disturbed or touched. edit: this virtual 100% of victims could equal 20 people or 500 people. We cannot know. What we do know is that cluster bombs have a disturbing potential lethal legacy to innocent human beings that seems disturbingly disproportionate to the initial purpose.
the left over du munitions posion everybody around...they don't need to pick it up or think it's a ration, they just have to be in the area
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
-People - mainly children - lose lives and limbs through cluster bombs every day.
-The fragments of exploding submunitions travel at high velocity. When they strike they set off people pressure waves within the body, which do horrific damage to soft tissue and organs. Even a single fragment can rupture the spleen, or cause the intestines to explode. If a victim survives the accident, they may suffer from a variety of injuries including loss of limbs, burns, puncture wounds, ruptured eardrums, and blindness.
-A weapon more likely to kill than maim the victim
-A weapon designed to terrorise
-Psychological trauma for the victim and his/her family
-Orphaned children
-Increase in the number of disabled people in impoverished countries
Social consequences:
-Injured and disabled, the victim cannot play an active role in society
-The victim may not be able to get married, have children or find a job, especially in traditional rural areas
-Loss of identity
-Stigma / Exclusion from the community
-An accident will also affect relatives of the victim both economically and psychologically
Financial consequences:
-Loss or decrease of income
-Relatives of the victim may have to stop working to look after him / her
-Expensive medical treatment, which most people cannot afford. Either the victim doesn’t get treatment or the family have to sell all their possessions
-People starving as fields are impossible to use
-Affects the national economy: costs of rehabilitation services, fewer accessible fields (most developing countries rely heavily on revenues from agriculture)
Environmental consequences:
-Pollution of fields, roads and water points
-Housing problems: new lands contaminated by cluster bombs or displaced people unable to return home
-Reduced access to services, such as hospitals, schools, electricity supply
"Even limited information on casualties during strikes indicates that many cluster submunitions casualties were civilians. Cluster munitions are wide-surface weapons, contaminating more than the military target; they were used indiscriminately in high quantities, as in Lao; they were often used near civilian areas, as in Afghanistan; and they sometimes explicitly targeted civilian areas, as in Chechnya."
"In some areas of Iraq, cluster submunitions casualities represent between 75 and 80 percent of all casualties."
November 2006 report, Handicap International
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Thank-you for the clarification sapperskunk. This is what I'm getting. Apparently cluster bombs are effective under such situations:
"These munitions spread their contents over a large field, with a radius of up to 600 m. They can destroy broad targets like airfields and surface-to-air missile sites. They are also effective against targets that move or do not have precise locations, such as enemy troops or vehicles."
if a rocket fires 10 000 bomblets, and the target is an airfield or surface-to-air missile site, or a broad area containing say, 50 moving targets, the bomblets that do detonate, whether it's 80% or 99% will still only kill/destroy the limited fixed expected target. For example the airfield. Or 50 moving targets. What is detonated can only kill/destroy the projected enemy target that is there in that moment.
And the unexploded ordnance that are left, whether 710 or 100 will STILL kill virtually 100% if not exactly 100% civilians as easily as being disturbed or touched. edit: this virtual 100% of victims could equal 20 people or 500 people. We cannot know. What we do know is that cluster bombs have a disturbing potential lethal legacy to innocent human beings that seems disturbingly disproportionate to the initial purpose.
That's good.
So you see what I mean when I say it's extremely effective in the combative stage?
The problem lies with the latter part of the equation. UXO and land mine awareness is taught all the time to local nationals and the military makes a great effort to collect and destroy any munitions whether it be ours or someone elses in a combat zone.
So you see what I mean when I say it's extremely effective in the combative stage?
The problem lies with the latter part of the equation. UXO and land mine awareness is taught all the time to local nationals and the military makes a great effort to collect and destroy any munitions whether it be ours or someone elses in a combat zone.
It might also be extremely effective to kill an entire gymnasium full of school children in order to eliminate the one perpetrator hiding among them. However we must take into consideration the big picture, or we are being irresponsible. To me, killing a large percentage of civilians as fallout makes this choice specifically and absolutely not 'good'.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
It might also be extremely effective to kill an entire gymnasium full of school children in order to eliminate the one perpetrator hiding among them. However we must take into consideration the big picture, or we are being irresponsible. To me, killing a large percentage of civilians as fallout makes this choice specifically and absolutely not 'good'.
You HAVE to give me more credit than this.
I would never advocate the killing ONE child to kill an entire gymnasium full of insurgents.
YOU have to look at the big picture also. This weapon is flawed; yes. But we have made great strides to lower that DUD rate and work to get to those UXO's before the civilian population does.
Pre-2005 I would give it a thumbs down. Today, a thumbs up.
I would never advocate the killing ONE child to kill an entire gymnasium full of insurgents.
YOU have to look at the big picture also. This weapon is flawed; yes. But we have made great strides to lower that DUD rate and work to get to those UXO's before the civilian population does.
Pre-2005 I would give it a thumbs down. Today, a thumbs up.
I'm talking results here. In the big picture. Looking at one part of an equation and downplaying the negative aspect of it is not realistic. If you want to deny aspects of this situation, you enter territory of justifying the unjustifiable in my mind. From what I've read there is mass innocent human cost here. Downplaying that cost is uncalled for. Making efforts to minimize the fallout is not the same as actually minimizing it. If cluster bombs had a high success rate without a big fallout that would be a different story.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
would new zealand ban the sale of wool?? ... heck no! ... too many people make waaaay too much money selling these things - they don't care what they do to who they do it to ...
would new zealand ban the sale of wool?? ... heck no! ... too many people make waaaay too much money selling these things - they don't care what they do to who they do it to ...
oh yeah cause wool kills soooo many people. sheesh :rolleyes:
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
The Trump administration has waived a ban on older cluster bombs, paving the way for the U.S. to expand its use of the weapons, which are banned under a treaty signed by over 100 nations. The weapons scatter so-called bomblets over a wide area, exploding into shrapnel that tears through flesh. Some of the bombs fail to explode, effectively becoming land mines that later maim and kill civilians—especially children.
The Trump administration has waived a ban on older cluster bombs, paving the way for the U.S. to expand its use of the weapons, which are banned under a treaty signed by over 100 nations. The weapons scatter so-called bomblets over a wide area, exploding into shrapnel that tears through flesh. Some of the bombs fail to explode, effectively becoming land mines that later maim and kill civilians—especially children.
The Trump administration has waived a ban on older cluster bombs, paving the way for the U.S. to expand its use of the weapons, which are banned under a treaty signed by over 100 nations. The weapons scatter so-called bomblets over a wide area, exploding into shrapnel that tears through flesh. Some of the bombs fail to explode, effectively becoming land mines that later maim and kill civilians—especially children.
Comments
No problem.
So lets say we fire a rocket that shoots out 10000 bomblets.
At least 9900 of those bomblets now HAVE to go off.
So a maximum number of POSSIBLE UXO is 100 or less.
Whereas before if a rocket fired 10000 bomblets, 710 weren't detonating. That's the percentage of the old system of those yellow Blu-97's I've never seen before were doing.
Thank-you for the clarification sapperskunk. This is what I'm getting. Apparently cluster bombs are effective under such situations:
"These munitions spread their contents over a large field, with a radius of up to 600 m. They can destroy broad targets like airfields and surface-to-air missile sites. They are also effective against targets that move or do not have precise locations, such as enemy troops or vehicles."
if a rocket fires 10 000 bomblets, and the target is an airfield or surface-to-air missile site, or a broad area containing say, 50 moving targets, the bomblets that do detonate, whether it's 80% or 99% will still only kill/destroy the limited fixed expected target. For example the airfield. Or 50 moving targets. What is detonated can only kill/destroy the projected enemy target that is there in that moment.
And the unexploded ordnance that are left, whether 710 or 100 will STILL kill virtually 100% if not exactly 100% civilians as easily as being disturbed or touched. edit: this virtual 100% of victims could equal 20 people or 500 people. We cannot know. What we do know is that cluster bombs have a disturbing potential lethal legacy to innocent human beings that seems disturbingly disproportionate to the initial purpose.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
the left over du munitions posion everybody around...they don't need to pick it up or think it's a ration, they just have to be in the area
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Human Consequences:
-People - mainly children - lose lives and limbs through cluster bombs every day.
-The fragments of exploding submunitions travel at high velocity. When they strike they set off people pressure waves within the body, which do horrific damage to soft tissue and organs. Even a single fragment can rupture the spleen, or cause the intestines to explode. If a victim survives the accident, they may suffer from a variety of injuries including loss of limbs, burns, puncture wounds, ruptured eardrums, and blindness.
-A weapon more likely to kill than maim the victim
-A weapon designed to terrorise
-Psychological trauma for the victim and his/her family
-Orphaned children
-Increase in the number of disabled people in impoverished countries
Social consequences:
-Injured and disabled, the victim cannot play an active role in society
-The victim may not be able to get married, have children or find a job, especially in traditional rural areas
-Loss of identity
-Stigma / Exclusion from the community
-An accident will also affect relatives of the victim both economically and psychologically
Financial consequences:
-Loss or decrease of income
-Relatives of the victim may have to stop working to look after him / her
-Expensive medical treatment, which most people cannot afford. Either the victim doesn’t get treatment or the family have to sell all their possessions
-People starving as fields are impossible to use
-Affects the national economy: costs of rehabilitation services, fewer accessible fields (most developing countries rely heavily on revenues from agriculture)
Environmental consequences:
-Pollution of fields, roads and water points
-Housing problems: new lands contaminated by cluster bombs or displaced people unable to return home
-Reduced access to services, such as hospitals, schools, electricity supply
http://www.handicap-international.org.uk/page_247.php
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
"In some areas of Iraq, cluster submunitions casualities represent between 75 and 80 percent of all casualties."
November 2006 report, Handicap International
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
as should any weapon that utilising depleted uranium.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
That's good.
So you see what I mean when I say it's extremely effective in the combative stage?
The problem lies with the latter part of the equation. UXO and land mine awareness is taught all the time to local nationals and the military makes a great effort to collect and destroy any munitions whether it be ours or someone elses in a combat zone.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
You HAVE to give me more credit than this.
I would never advocate the killing ONE child to kill an entire gymnasium full of insurgents.
YOU have to look at the big picture also. This weapon is flawed; yes. But we have made great strides to lower that DUD rate and work to get to those UXO's before the civilian population does.
Pre-2005 I would give it a thumbs down. Today, a thumbs up.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
oh yeah cause wool kills soooo many people. sheesh :rolleyes:
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
you clearly haven't seen the latest stats on scratching death rates caused by itchy sweaters!
clearly i have not .
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
The Trump administration has waived a ban on older cluster bombs, paving the way for the U.S. to expand its use of the weapons, which are banned under a treaty signed by over 100 nations. The weapons scatter so-called bomblets over a wide area, exploding into shrapnel that tears through flesh. Some of the bombs fail to explode, effectively becoming land mines that later maim and kill civilians—especially children.
https://www.democracynow.org/2017/12/5/headlines/trump_administration_to_allow_more_cluster_bombs