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The rise of China

Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
in A Moving Train
Saw a report on TV the other night about how China are putting Pacific Island nations like Vanuatu in debt and then building ports there (loan shark tactics).
As part of the deal they are also building towers without employing poor locals.
Now, this has me worried, they're pretty much setting themselves up to have military bases close to Australia.
They have followed a Aussie vessel near Vanuatu in their spy ship. Aggressive tactics. 
Plus their aggressive tactics in the region (South China Sea).
They already have 2 Aussie ports on a 99 year lease, plus they are influencing politics here via donours and buying a lot of real estate here. 
Concerned and anxious about the future of my country and our the future of our neighbours.
China are playing a long game, will they invade Australia and our neighbours in years to come by military force? Who knows but their moves lately indicate that.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014

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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,722
    From what I can gather, China is a place of many conflicting characteristics.  On the one hand, I've read that they are making big strides to reduce their impact on environment, on the other hand their cities are smog factories and they've stripped their land of forest (which is exactly what led to the fall of the Greek and Roman Empires).

    I really don't know what to think.  We hear a lot about the various "red scares",  but then what do we really know about China?   There  is a lot of anti-China sentiment in the U.S. and some may be founded but a lot I'm sure is due to prejudice and that does nothing to help relations.  And I'm honestly not to confident that any of the super powers are doing this world a whole lot of good.... but they could if they put their minds to it. 
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    brianlux said:
      And I'm honestly not to confident that any of the super powers are doing this world a whole lot of good.... but they could if they put their minds to it. 

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    Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739

    They seem to have their hands in everything these days...


    Give Peas A Chance…
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    Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    They are playing chess in the Pacific.
    They now have their hands in Papua New Guinea. 
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
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    Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    Thoughts_Arrive said:
    They are playing chess in the Pacific.
    They now have their hands in Papua New Guinea. 
    I hear you.  They are heavily invested in Canada as well.  
    Give Peas A Chance…
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,722
    And the U.S. has its hand on everybody.  I'm not saying this makes certain things China is doing OK but I would suggest we keep in mind that all the super powers are into the same game.  And it looks at lot like this:


    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    Yeah I know the USA does it but Australia and the USA have a long relationship and there's nothing to surprise Australia.
    My anxiety is that I do not know what China are scheming, what are their aims, they are unpredictable right now.
    Throughout history there have been empires, do they want to invade every country in the pacific?
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,722
    Thoughts_Arrive said:
    Yeah I know the USA does it but Australia and the USA have a long relationship and there's nothing to surprise Australia.
    My anxiety is that I do not know what China are scheming, what are their aims, they are unpredictable right now.
    Throughout history there have been empires, do they want to invade every country in the pacific?
    If you're concerned about China invading Australia, I suppose it's possible but I don't think China will invade Australia. 

    Reasons why I think this:
    1.Distance.
    Beijing to San Francisco 9,513
    Beijing to Seattle 8,699
    Beijing to London 8,148 KM
    Beijing to Sydney 8,959 KM

    2.Allies.  Australia would be defended by more allies than China would. Australia would be supported bu the U.S., much of the UK, New Zealand, much or most of NATO.

    3. Size.  Australia is a huge country.  It would be very difficult to invade a country that big with major cities widespread.

    4. China's limited air support.  IT's growing, but still small and inefficient.

    5. Environment and resources.  I think China has enough problems trying to solve their environmental problems without trying to stage an invasion.  As far as resources go, it would be cheaper for them to buy what they need than to try to invade other countries to get them.

    I agree that China is pretty closed about their goings on but I would imagine there is plenty of intelligence (i.e. spies) from other countries their to track what's going on.  And visa versa. 
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    The fact that they are building ports that could be used as military bases off our north and easy coasts worries me.
    They are moving closer to Australia. They could launch from Fiji, Vanuatu, PNG.
    They have way more soldiers than we do.
    China would get support from Russia and North Korea and probably Iran.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,722
    Thoughts_Arrive said:
    The fact that they are building ports that could be used as military bases off our north and easy coasts worries me.
    They are moving closer to Australia. They could launch from Fiji, Vanuatu, PNG.
    They have way more soldiers than we do.
    China would get support from Russia and North Korea and probably Iran.
    I hope some others that are more savvy about this issue will post here.  There are at least a couple of people who used to post here who would have chimed in but they are gone.

    Anyone else here?

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    China doesn't worry me militarily ...

    Even economically not as much so ...


    Give Peas A Chance…
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    Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    Meltdown99 said:
    China doesn't worry me militarily ...

    Even economically not as much so ...


    They worry me, their population thus army is huge. 
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,722
    China concern me more environmentally.  I live about 6,000 miles west of Beijing and about 29% of the pollution here of the west coast comes from China.  29%, almost 6,000 miles.  Now that is fucked up!


    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    brianlux said:
    China concern me more environmentally.  I live about 6,000 miles west of Beijing and about 29% of the pollution here of the west coast comes from China.  29%, almost 6,000 miles.  Now that is fucked up!


    Now that's fucked up...

    What about the radiation that was leaking from the nuclear plant accident in Japan?  
    Give Peas A Chance…
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,722
    Meltdown99 said:
    brianlux said:
    China concern me more environmentally.  I live about 6,000 miles west of Beijing and about 29% of the pollution here of the west coast comes from China.  29%, almost 6,000 miles.  Now that is fucked up!


    Now that's fucked up...

    What about the radiation that was leaking from the nuclear plant accident in Japan?  
    That's an excellent question and the answers vary widely.  Some say the radiation is at low enough levels such that there is no reason not to repopulate the areas around Fukushima, Japan.  Others say radiation in the ocean water and air moving toward the west coast of North America is dangerous.  There is so much conflicting information!  I tend to be cautiously optimistic that the danger is low.  But if another  big earthquake hit Japan (or maybe I should say when), I will yet again be much more concerned.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    brianlux said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    brianlux said:
    China concern me more environmentally.  I live about 6,000 miles west of Beijing and about 29% of the pollution here of the west coast comes from China.  29%, almost 6,000 miles.  Now that is fucked up!


    Now that's fucked up...

    What about the radiation that was leaking from the nuclear plant accident in Japan?  
    That's an excellent question and the answers vary widely.  Some say the radiation is at low enough levels such that there is no reason not to repopulate the areas around Fukushima, Japan.  Others say radiation in the ocean water and air moving toward the west coast of North America is dangerous.  There is so much conflicting information!  I tend to be cautiously optimistic that the danger is low.  But if another  big earthquake hit Japan (or maybe I should say when), I will yet again be much more concerned.
    I think building nuclear power plants near earthquake zones are a bad idea.  I can not even grasp how anyone can think any nuclear waste in our oceans is safe...
    Give Peas A Chance…
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,722
    Meltdown99 said:
    brianlux said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    brianlux said:
    China concern me more environmentally.  I live about 6,000 miles west of Beijing and about 29% of the pollution here of the west coast comes from China.  29%, almost 6,000 miles.  Now that is fucked up!


    Now that's fucked up...

    What about the radiation that was leaking from the nuclear plant accident in Japan?  
    That's an excellent question and the answers vary widely.  Some say the radiation is at low enough levels such that there is no reason not to repopulate the areas around Fukushima, Japan.  Others say radiation in the ocean water and air moving toward the west coast of North America is dangerous.  There is so much conflicting information!  I tend to be cautiously optimistic that the danger is low.  But if another  big earthquake hit Japan (or maybe I should say when), I will yet again be much more concerned.
    I think building nuclear power plants near earthquake zones are a bad idea.  I can not even grasp how anyone can think any nuclear waste in our oceans is safe...
    Totally agree!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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