People Outliving Their Means

bflynn1

Just doing a lot of reading here and in various Facebook groups etc. and it seems like a lot of people are outliving their means. I see a lot of posts like "Hate to do this but had some bills come up and need to sell ______ (vinyl, posters, etc.) Why do people put themselves in these situations. I may get flamed for this but why do people continually put themselves in these situations?

If you can't afford it, don't buy it. 

hedonist

Not gonna flame you because I've seen similarly...but, sometimes you just can't know about others' circumstances - illness, lost job, simple hunger, electricity turned off, who knows.  That said, irresponsibility and poor choices will always happen.  Hopefully people learn from their actions - or situations out of their control bear more fruit for them.

We were in a bad financial spot over ten years ago; had to sell some stuff to make our mortgage.  Shit happens, no shame.  I am happy to say that more than 13 years later - now - our credit scores are near perfect, and we only owe on my car (0% interest!) and what's left on our condo.

Your last line, agreed (if possible?).

lastexitlondon

Illness causes this i can testify i collected lots when i had plenty of money and a good income.
Illness took all of that and i had to sell all of it . Not even a choice.

bflynn1

Very good points. Both of you. 

F Me In The Brain

People forget how long ago so many people got caught doing this.  Not everyone can afford to be big spenders.  
However....it could be that they had some expenses pop up that were easier dealt with by selling some items that had gone up in value vs. hitting their bank accounts.  Great for them, if so.  That is what should happen with investments.

bflynn1

I'm not gonna lie, I was a little whiskey buzzed last night when I posted this I just kept seeing a bunch of posts on Facebook and here and was like "Do you people not manage your money or have emergency funds established before you splurge?" 

Apologies if I struck a nerve with anyone that read the OP. It's entirely possible that BIG unexpected expenses could come up at anytime that even a well funded emergency account couldn't cover. 

Thoughts_Arrive

I agree, big unexpected expenses can come about such as Pearl Jam concerts, vinyls, posters.

tempo_n_groove

When u have FB and people showing off what they have it can/could make others want to try and keep up with the Jones'.  I'm guilty of showing off my collection but it's meant to show others what's out there.  

I do see people throwing very large sums of money at PJ prints, memorabilia and am quite shocked still.  I mean $100 for a pair of socks?

Y'all cray.  Thank you for them but still y'all cray!

SmallestOceans

bflynn1 said:

I'm not gonna lie, I was a little whiskey buzzed last night when I posted this I just kept seeing a bunch of posts on Facebook and here and was like "Do you people not manage your money or have emergency funds established before you splurge?" 

Apologies if I struck a nerve with anyone that read the OP. It's entirely possible that BIG unexpected expenses could come up at anytime that even a well funded emergency account couldn't cover. 

MayDay10

I also think it is easier to say "I need to pay some bills" than it is "I believe these items are at the top of their value and I want to cash out"

bflynn1

MayDay10 said:

I also think it is easier to say "I need to pay some bills" than it is "I believe these items are at the top of their value and I want to cash out"

Great point there too. 

F Me In The Brain

MayDay10 said:

I also think it is easier to say "I need to pay some bills" than it is "I believe these items are at the top of their value and I want to cash out"

Excellent point. 
(Although I still believe there are people spending a whacked amount of money on things w/o saving for their college tuition for the kids, life insurance policies, retirement, etc.  Totally up to the individual -- taken in a much, much larger sense than the PJ Fan crowd, I believe this to be the truth.) 
I spend too much on lots of things -- but I also take care of our priorities first.  Before we took in the nephew and had the kid?  Holy shit, I spent so much more than I do now on overall useless shit.  (But, it was fun!)

PJ_Soul

Hedo is right about circumstances beyond one's control... But that said, YES, a LOT of people simply live waaaaay beyond their means and rack up insane amounts of consumer debt and get a mortgage they can't afford because they were raised by the baby boomers and so feel like the minimum standard to living is really really high and feel like they have to live up to that, even though times have changed so that a nice stable job with a nice above average salary doesn't do much at all. So people use their credit cards to buy new furniture, a big screen TV or two, a nice smartphone every few years, they spend insane amounts of money on clothes, and don't even get me started on how expensive it is to own a car. And on top of that they develop an expensive concert and merch hobby and still go out for dinners, etc etc. But salaries haven't kept pace at all. People can't afford to just maintain the standards they are used to from the 70s, 80s, and even 90s. That is why the average consumer debt rate in a lot of places is up to 170% of household income, and the majority of people are only $200 away from not being able to pay their bills every month even though they have higher than average salaries. And an emergency fund?? For a lot of people that is just called "the credit card that isn't maxed out" ... Then at some point reality inevitably comes crashing down... and people start selling their collections.

dankind

The only thing I have ever done that was beyond my means was get an education. First (and still only) one in my family to go to college, and I still think they're all way smarter for getting jobs out of high school. They don't owe anyone a damn thing.

And that debt just keeps getting higher. I think it's close to $250,000 now. I think I've taken out enough life insurance to cover it when I die, but that's the only way it will ever be paid off.

rgambs

Yeah, it's just the American Dream come true.
I could go on all day on this subject because I'm a simple country guy that doesn't spend money, but I will spare you all lol
I will say, people wasting money on new stuff when you can get good used stuff is a big pet peeve.

We have a pontoon boat and an RV and we take 4 weeklong vacations a year, so it's not like we don't have fun, but our camping vacations cost 250$ a week and our boat and RV have the combined age of a senior citizen lol

PJ_Soul

dankind said:

The only thing I have ever done that was beyond my means was get an education. First (and still only) one in my family to go to college, and I still think they're all way smarter for getting jobs out of high school. They don't owe anyone a damn thing.

And that debt just keeps getting higher. I think it's close to $250,000 now. I think I've taken out enough life insurance to cover it when I die, but that's the only way it will ever be paid off.

Ugh, yeah, student load debt is just fucking horrible. Since I live in Canada, I managed to escape with only about $11,000 or something and just worked to pay for the rest at the time, but even that tiny amount was a bitch to pay off once I graduated, so holy shit, I can barely even wrap my mind around $250K in student debt. That's fucking ridiculous. What a fucked up system that that is even possible.

PJ_Soul

rgambs said:

Yeah, it's just the American Dream come true.
I could go on all day on this subject because I'm a simple country guy that doesn't spend money, but I will spare you all lol
I will say, people wasting money on new stuff when you can get good used stuff is a big pet peeve.

We have a pontoon boat and an RV and we take 4 weeklong vacations a year, so it's not like we don't have fun, but our camping vacations cost 250$ a week and our boat and RV have the combined age of a senior citizen lol

I don't spend much money because I don't have much money because I live in a place where the cost of living is completely and madly out of control compared to salaries. I've got an above average salary and am still pretty damn poor and basically living pay cheque to pay cheque, to the point where I have to really, really sweat the decision to just go down to Seattle for a few days. It blows (although luckily I don't have to worry about possible illness or anything - the threat of sudden big medical bills is not a risk where I am, thank god). And I have been in consumer debt because of this high cost of living/stagnant salary problem, and because I wanted to not live in poverty even though I had no money.... Luckily I recently dug myself out of said debt.... And I am working really hard to keep it that way. I found that when I was in debt I was pretty much in denial about it. I just went along my merry way thinking it's not so bad because mine was actually pretty far below the average debt load carried by people and I was still able to maintain an excellent credit rating by paying at least the minimum payments 100% of the time ... The thing is, the average debt load carried by people is INSANE, mostly because of the reasons I mentioned in my last post. So it's not acceptable even to be well below that crazy number. I was real close to being incapable of digging out, and I know so many people are far deeper in that I ever was. It's pretty scary. There will be a "reckoning" soon enough. This kind of credit economy cannot sustain itself. Everyone hang on to your britches because it could get nasty.

rgambs

PJ_Soul said:

rgambs said:

Yeah, it's just the American Dream come true.
I could go on all day on this subject because I'm a simple country guy that doesn't spend money, but I will spare you all lol
I will say, people wasting money on new stuff when you can get good used stuff is a big pet peeve.

We have a pontoon boat and an RV and we take 4 weeklong vacations a year, so it's not like we don't have fun, but our camping vacations cost 250$ a week and our boat and RV have the combined age of a senior citizen lol

I don't spend much money because I don't have much money because I live in a place where the cost of living is completely and madly out of control compared to salaries. I've got an above average salary and am still pretty poor, to the point where I have to really, really sweat the decision to just go down to Seattle for a few days. It blows. And I have been in consumer debt because of this and because I wanted to not live in poverty even though I had no money.... Luckily I recently dug myself out of said debt.... And I am working really hard to keep it that way. I found that when I was in debt I was pretty much in denial about it. I just went along my merry way thinking it's not so bad because mine was actually pretty well below the average debt load carried by people... The thing is, the average debt load carried by people is INSANE. So it's hardly acceptable to be well below that crazy number. I was real close to being incapable of digging out, and I know so many people are far deeper in that I ever was. It's pretty scary. There will be a "reckoning" soon enough. This kind of credit economy cannot sustain itself. Everyone hang on to your britches because it could get nasty.

We have 345k in debt lol
Student loans, mortgage, and an optometry practice.

We don't spend beyond our means, we actually spend/spent way less than our peer group.  It's crazy to think that at 30 years old, if we spent like average we would have close to 800k in debt!

dankind

We are on our second "owned" property now, and I still think it's fucking stupid. We don't own our house; some fucking bank does. I would rather pay a nice landlady/landlord than a fucking bank!

People tell me that I'm "building my equity." I worked on Wall Street for more than 10 years and still have no clue what that means, and it's pointless to try to explain it to me. So don't try. My eyes will glaze over two syllables into it.

PJ_Soul

rgambs said:

PJ_Soul said:

rgambs said:

Yeah, it's just the American Dream come true.
I could go on all day on this subject because I'm a simple country guy that doesn't spend money, but I will spare you all lol
I will say, people wasting money on new stuff when you can get good used stuff is a big pet peeve.

We have a pontoon boat and an RV and we take 4 weeklong vacations a year, so it's not like we don't have fun, but our camping vacations cost 250$ a week and our boat and RV have the combined age of a senior citizen lol

I don't spend much money because I don't have much money because I live in a place where the cost of living is completely and madly out of control compared to salaries. I've got an above average salary and am still pretty poor, to the point where I have to really, really sweat the decision to just go down to Seattle for a few days. It blows. And I have been in consumer debt because of this and because I wanted to not live in poverty even though I had no money.... Luckily I recently dug myself out of said debt.... And I am working really hard to keep it that way. I found that when I was in debt I was pretty much in denial about it. I just went along my merry way thinking it's not so bad because mine was actually pretty well below the average debt load carried by people... The thing is, the average debt load carried by people is INSANE. So it's hardly acceptable to be well below that crazy number. I was real close to being incapable of digging out, and I know so many people are far deeper in that I ever was. It's pretty scary. There will be a "reckoning" soon enough. This kind of credit economy cannot sustain itself. Everyone hang on to your britches because it could get nasty.

We have 345k in debt lol
Student loans, mortgage, and an optometry practice.

We don't spend beyond our means, we actually spend/spent way less than our peer group.  It's crazy to think that at 30 years old, if we spent like average we would have close to 800k in debt!

Well, mortgage and business investment is different ... That isn't included when talking about "consumer debt". That is included in overall household debt though, and those numbers are obviously staggering. But at least with mortgage you've got an investment on your hands, and obviously business debt is at least supposed to pay for itself via the business. Not so with other kinds of debt, obviously. Student loans are different too, but at least as damaging as consumer debt despite the benefits they allowed for. It's the random credit card debt that is insane, because it is just irresponsible, pure and simple. It brings no returns 99.9% of the time. It is just money down the drain for the sake of some unnecessary luxuries. That said, it is very hard to resist, especially when it comes to using it to make life worth living, like for travelling and shit.

(are you an optometrist rgambs? I don't think I knew that if you are)

tempo_n_groove

dankind said:

We are on our second "owned" property now, and I still think it's fucking stupid. We don't own our house; some fucking bank does. I would rather pay a nice landlady/landlord than a fucking bank!

People tell me that I'm "building my equity." I worked on Wall Street for more than 10 years and still have no clue what that means, and it's pointless to try to explain it to me. So don't try. My eyes will glaze over two syllables into it.

This is exactly why I rent.

I do not want to buy a typical Long Island house for 350,000K then have to update it and gut the walls down to the studs to fix the shoddy work that Merle and Anthony did back in the day for another 100-150K then my taxes would go up because I decided to make my house more economical/livable and get penalized for doing it,  so instead of 12K a year I now have to pay 18K a year and with the new tax breaks/laws I can not write off the full amount so there goes more out of pocket expense...

Welcome to NY!

I do get to spend the money that I chose NOT to buy a house on concerts and experiences though.