Multiple Fatalities- Ariana Grande Concert

mcgruff10

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

CM189191 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

CM189191 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Go Beavers said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Go Beavers said:

CM189191 said:

riley540 said:

Why do we all act like Islam is a good thing? Have you seen how women in Islamic communities are treated? And homosexuals? Sure, believe what you want, but don't put down others. Women can't even show their faces or have any standing in society. :( it's not a good religion. Sorry, just being honest. And I'm not defending Christianity. 

Why do we act like religion is good thing?  There are no good religions.

Equality for gays and women is an area nearly every culture needs to make progress on. 

Again... rushing to the defence of Islam.

Stoning a woman to death who is buried chest high in the street because she was accused of infidelity (in front of a cheering crowd no less) is a far cry from not hiring one.

how is what he said "rushing" to defend it? can you describe what "rushing to defend" even means, and why you think that anyone defending anything you disagree with to be "rushing" to do so?

Because any time anyone makes any legitimate critical remark towards Islam... he attempts to rationalize it. Keep up.

I have kept up just fine thanks. 

so the same, inverse argument could be made about you: rushing to criticize. 

No.

It's not even close. What are you talking about?

First... there's the big stretch trying to suggest anti government types like Breivik (who isn't even a Christian) and McVeigh are 'Christian terrorists'.

Second... even if one insisted on believing these acts by these idiots were borne from Christian ideals... they are isolated events and separated by decades of time- hardly anything at all like what we are experiencing by radical Islam in terms of persistence and methodology.

Even in the best case scenario for someone badly wanting others to 'have the perspective' that Islamic terror has its close rivals.

Third... when someone suggests the nationwide treatment of women and homosexuals is abhorrent... an immediate response is to claim that 'Equality for gays and women is an area nearly every culture needs to make progress on'... so, in other words, it's no different there than here. Which... is wrong.

Bin Laden was also anti-US government. The same motivation as McVeigh. 

A devout Muslim.

So much so that he forfeited a life of royalty to live in caves plotting against the west for what they represented to Islamic faith.

So... not so much anti-US government as much as anti-US.

Anti-US?  or Anti-Globalist?  was Osama a Statist?

“Every Muslim the minute he can start differentiating, carries hate towards Americans, Jews and Christians, this is part of our ideology. Ever since I can recall, I felt at war with the Americans and had feelings of animosity and hate towards them,” said bin Laden in an interview with al-Jazeera Arab television in 1998.


That same year, in an interview with TIME magazine he said, “Our work targets world infidels. Our enemy is the crusader alliance led by America, Britain and Israel. It is a crusader-Jewish alliance.” 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/31/why-did-osama-bin-laden-hate-americans-jews-and-ch/

so.....a Statist then

If that's how you wish to perceive it.

When I read the terms 'infidel' and 'Muslim ideology'... I tend to think of a person more concerned with religious control than political control.

Bin Laden is definitely more religious than political.

"America has been hit by Allah at its most vulnerable point, destroying, thank God, its most prestigious buildings."

- October 7, 2001, after the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

"Acquiring weapons for the defense of Muslims is a religious duty... If I seek to acquire these weapons, I am carrying out a duty."

- December 1998, when asked by an interviewer for Time magazine whether he had acquired chemical or nuclear weapons.

"Jihad will continue even if I am not around."

- Late September 2001, in an interview with a Pakistani newspaper.

"It is the duty of Muslims to prepare as much force as possible to terrorize the enemies of God."
"Believe it, through jihad, a man gets everything he desires."

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Go Beavers said:

CM189191 said:

riley540 said:

Why do we all act like Islam is a good thing? Have you seen how women in Islamic communities are treated? And homosexuals? Sure, believe what you want, but don't put down others. Women can't even show their faces or have any standing in society. :( it's not a good religion. Sorry, just being honest. And I'm not defending Christianity. 

Why do we act like religion is good thing?  There are no good religions.

Equality for gays and women is an area nearly every culture needs to make progress on. 

Again... rushing to the defence of Islam.

Stoning a woman to death who is buried chest high in the street because she was accused of infidelity (in front of a cheering crowd no less) is a far cry from not hiring one.

how is what he said "rushing" to defend it? can you describe what "rushing to defend" even means, and why you think that anyone defending anything you disagree with to be "rushing" to do so?

Because any time anyone makes any legitimate critical remark towards Islam... he attempts to rationalize it. Keep up.

I have kept up just fine thanks. 

so the same, inverse argument could be made about you: rushing to criticize. 

No.

It's not even close. What are you talking about?

First... there's the big stretch trying to suggest anti government types like Breivik (who isn't even a Christian) and McVeigh are 'Christian terrorists'.

Second... even if one insisted on believing these acts by these idiots were borne from Christian ideals... they are isolated events and separated by decades of time- hardly anything at all like what we are experiencing by radical Islam in terms of persistence and methodology.

Even in the best case scenario for someone badly wanting others to 'have the perspective' that Islamic terror has its close rivals.

Third... when someone suggests the nationwide treatment of women and homosexuals is abhorrent... an immediate response is to claim that 'Equality for gays and women is an area nearly every culture needs to make progress on'... so, in other words, it's no different there than here. Which... is wrong.

edit: fuck it. not worth my time. 

Of course it isn't.

The point has been made and it's tough to refute.

(But once again... with this post... you've made an implication without actually saying what you were getting at. Does stating 'this isn't worth your time' mean you're right... I'm wrong... and trying to convince me of your 'rightness' would be a waste of your time? That's how such a comment comes across)

how very predictable. 

no, it isn't tough to refute.  i had about 4 paragraphs typed. i don't think you're 'wrong' and that i'm 'right'. i think we both fall somewhere in the middle. but we both know you never, or very rarely, think this middle exists. you take someone's point and stretch it so it's unrecognizable until i'm defending a point that was never made, so yes, a waste of time. 

riley540

I feel so bad for people who had to experience their first concert and have this happen. So many young kids at the show 

CM189191

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

CM189191 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

CM189191 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Go Beavers said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Go Beavers said:

CM189191 said:

riley540 said:

Why do we all act like Islam is a good thing? Have you seen how women in Islamic communities are treated? And homosexuals? Sure, believe what you want, but don't put down others. Women can't even show their faces or have any standing in society. :( it's not a good religion. Sorry, just being honest. And I'm not defending Christianity. 

Why do we act like religion is good thing?  There are no good religions.

Equality for gays and women is an area nearly every culture needs to make progress on. 

Again... rushing to the defence of Islam.

Stoning a woman to death who is buried chest high in the street because she was accused of infidelity (in front of a cheering crowd no less) is a far cry from not hiring one.

how is what he said "rushing" to defend it? can you describe what "rushing to defend" even means, and why you think that anyone defending anything you disagree with to be "rushing" to do so?

Because any time anyone makes any legitimate critical remark towards Islam... he attempts to rationalize it. Keep up.

I have kept up just fine thanks. 

so the same, inverse argument could be made about you: rushing to criticize. 

No.

It's not even close. What are you talking about?

First... there's the big stretch trying to suggest anti government types like Breivik (who isn't even a Christian) and McVeigh are 'Christian terrorists'.

Second... even if one insisted on believing these acts by these idiots were borne from Christian ideals... they are isolated events and separated by decades of time- hardly anything at all like what we are experiencing by radical Islam in terms of persistence and methodology.

Even in the best case scenario for someone badly wanting others to 'have the perspective' that Islamic terror has its close rivals.

Third... when someone suggests the nationwide treatment of women and homosexuals is abhorrent... an immediate response is to claim that 'Equality for gays and women is an area nearly every culture needs to make progress on'... so, in other words, it's no different there than here. Which... is wrong.

Bin Laden was also anti-US government. The same motivation as McVeigh. 

A devout Muslim.

So much so that he forfeited a life of royalty to live in caves plotting against the west for what they represented to Islamic faith.

So... not so much anti-US government as much as anti-US.

Anti-US?  or Anti-Globalist?  was Osama a Statist?

“Every Muslim the minute he can start differentiating, carries hate towards Americans, Jews and Christians, this is part of our ideology. Ever since I can recall, I felt at war with the Americans and had feelings of animosity and hate towards them,” said bin Laden in an interview with al-Jazeera Arab television in 1998.


That same year, in an interview with TIME magazine he said, “Our work targets world infidels. Our enemy is the crusader alliance led by America, Britain and Israel. It is a crusader-Jewish alliance.” 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/31/why-did-osama-bin-laden-hate-americans-jews-and-ch/

so.....a Statist then

If that's how you wish to perceive it.

When I read the terms 'infidel' and 'Muslim ideology'... I tend to think of a person more concerned with religious control than political control.

So a Sharia Statist?  

When I read the terms 'In God We Trust' and read about prayers before town hall meetings... I tend to think of a person more concerned with religious control than political control.

Like the good people of Kansas, North Carolina or Texas perhaps.? Can't you just hear Billy Graham, Pat Robertson or Benny Hinn saying something like:
"“Every Christian the minute he can start differentiating, carries hate towards Arabs, Muslims and Middle-Easterners, this is part of our ideology. Ever since I can recall, I felt at war with these people and had feelings of animosity and hate towards them"

 i hate the new quoting system

Thirty Bills Unpaid

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Go Beavers said:

CM189191 said:

riley540 said:

Why do we all act like Islam is a good thing? Have you seen how women in Islamic communities are treated? And homosexuals? Sure, believe what you want, but don't put down others. Women can't even show their faces or have any standing in society. :( it's not a good religion. Sorry, just being honest. And I'm not defending Christianity. 

Why do we act like religion is good thing?  There are no good religions.

Equality for gays and women is an area nearly every culture needs to make progress on. 

Again... rushing to the defence of Islam.

Stoning a woman to death who is buried chest high in the street because she was accused of infidelity (in front of a cheering crowd no less) is a far cry from not hiring one.

how is what he said "rushing" to defend it? can you describe what "rushing to defend" even means, and why you think that anyone defending anything you disagree with to be "rushing" to do so?

Because any time anyone makes any legitimate critical remark towards Islam... he attempts to rationalize it. Keep up.

I have kept up just fine thanks. 

so the same, inverse argument could be made about you: rushing to criticize. 

No.

It's not even close. What are you talking about?

First... there's the big stretch trying to suggest anti government types like Breivik (who isn't even a Christian) and McVeigh are 'Christian terrorists'.

Second... even if one insisted on believing these acts by these idiots were borne from Christian ideals... they are isolated events and separated by decades of time- hardly anything at all like what we are experiencing by radical Islam in terms of persistence and methodology.

Even in the best case scenario for someone badly wanting others to 'have the perspective' that Islamic terror has its close rivals.

Third... when someone suggests the nationwide treatment of women and homosexuals is abhorrent... an immediate response is to claim that 'Equality for gays and women is an area nearly every culture needs to make progress on'... so, in other words, it's no different there than here. Which... is wrong.

edit: fuck it. not worth my time. 

Of course it isn't.

The point has been made and it's tough to refute.

(But once again... with this post... you've made an implication without actually saying what you were getting at. Does stating 'this isn't worth your time' mean you're right... I'm wrong... and trying to convince me of your 'rightness' would be a waste of your time? That's how such a comment comes across)

how very predictable. 

no, it isn't tough to refute.  i had about 4 paragraphs typed. i don't think you're 'wrong' and that i'm 'right'. i think we both fall somewhere in the middle. but we both know you never, or very rarely, think this middle exists. you take someone's point and stretch it so it's unrecognizable until i'm defending a point that was never made, so yes, a waste of time. 

Not entirely true.

While I take a hard stance and can, admittedly, be stubborn in some issues, I can find middle ground more than you're giving me credit for.

I just haven't read or heard anything with regards to this topic that makes me rethink my position very much for the reasons I've already outlined.

Regardless of where you or I sit... I still respect your position even though I might attack it with some vigour at times. Don't confuse passion with close mindedness.

RYME

This has got to be horrible for Ariana Grande.  I don't care for her music much but you know, how do you go forward if you're her? Every time you put on a show you think this might happen.  

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Go Beavers said:

CM189191 said:

riley540 said:

Why do we all act like Islam is a good thing? Have you seen how women in Islamic communities are treated? And homosexuals? Sure, believe what you want, but don't put down others. Women can't even show their faces or have any standing in society. :( it's not a good religion. Sorry, just being honest. And I'm not defending Christianity. 

Why do we act like religion is good thing?  There are no good religions.

Equality for gays and women is an area nearly every culture needs to make progress on. 

Again... rushing to the defence of Islam.

Stoning a woman to death who is buried chest high in the street because she was accused of infidelity (in front of a cheering crowd no less) is a far cry from not hiring one.

how is what he said "rushing" to defend it? can you describe what "rushing to defend" even means, and why you think that anyone defending anything you disagree with to be "rushing" to do so?

Because any time anyone makes any legitimate critical remark towards Islam... he attempts to rationalize it. Keep up.

I have kept up just fine thanks. 

so the same, inverse argument could be made about you: rushing to criticize. 

No.

It's not even close. What are you talking about?

First... there's the big stretch trying to suggest anti government types like Breivik (who isn't even a Christian) and McVeigh are 'Christian terrorists'.

Second... even if one insisted on believing these acts by these idiots were borne from Christian ideals... they are isolated events and separated by decades of time- hardly anything at all like what we are experiencing by radical Islam in terms of persistence and methodology.

Even in the best case scenario for someone badly wanting others to 'have the perspective' that Islamic terror has its close rivals.

Third... when someone suggests the nationwide treatment of women and homosexuals is abhorrent... an immediate response is to claim that 'Equality for gays and women is an area nearly every culture needs to make progress on'... so, in other words, it's no different there than here. Which... is wrong.

edit: fuck it. not worth my time. 

Of course it isn't.

The point has been made and it's tough to refute.

(But once again... with this post... you've made an implication without actually saying what you were getting at. Does stating 'this isn't worth your time' mean you're right... I'm wrong... and trying to convince me of your 'rightness' would be a waste of your time? That's how such a comment comes across)

how very predictable. 

no, it isn't tough to refute.  i had about 4 paragraphs typed. i don't think you're 'wrong' and that i'm 'right'. i think we both fall somewhere in the middle. but we both know you never, or very rarely, think this middle exists. you take someone's point and stretch it so it's unrecognizable until i'm defending a point that was never made, so yes, a waste of time. 

Not entirely true.

While I take a hard stance and can, admittedly, be stubborn in some issues, I can find middle ground more than you're giving me credit for.

I just haven't read or heard anything with regards to this topic that makes me rethink my position very much for the reasons I've already outlined.

Regardless of where you or I sit... I still respect your position even though I might attack it with some vigour at times. Don't confuse passion with close mindedness.

i don't believe i have. 

HughFreakingDillon

as a father who recently took his 7 year old daughter to her first concert ever (weezer), i can't imagine the pain of this happening. 

tempo_n_groove

This was just posted on FB. I found it to be in poor taste, true or not...

pjhawks

tempo_n_groove said:

This was just posted on FB. I found it to be in poor taste, true or not...

that is so incredibly stupid.  her comment is being completely taken out of context. yea she said but it was in reference to fucking donuts. 

no matter what she has said prior, and we all have said stupid things one time or another, if you can't have sympathy for what she has to be going through that you have to be a pretty cold person.  As fans of the band who runs this website we all know how gut wrenching it was and still is for these guys for what they had to deal with at Roskilde, now imagine an incident where even more people are killed and most of those are children at one of your shows. regardless of anyone's thoughts on Ariana's music and even understanding there was nothing she could have done, i can't imagine living with the knowledge that something like that happened at your show.  not something i would wish on any performer even those i dislike. 

HughFreakingDillon

for what it's worth:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/ariana-grande-apologizes-i-hate-807408

I am EXTREMELY proud to be an American and I've always made it clear that I love my country. What I said in a private moment with my friend, who was buying the donuts, was taken out of context and I am sorry for not using more discretion with my choice of words. As an advocate for healthy eating, food is very important to me and I sometimes get upset by how freely we as Americans eat and consume things without giving any thought to the consequences that it has on our health and society as a whole. The fact that the United States has the highest child obesity rate in the world frustrates me. We need to do more to educate ourselves and our children about the dangers of overeating and the poison that we put into our bodies. We need to demand more from our food industry. However I should have known better in how I expressed myself; and with my new responsibility to others as a public figure I will strive to be better. As for why I cannot be at the MLB show, I have had emergency oral surgery and due to recovery I cannot attend the show. I hope to make it up to all those fans soon. That being said let me once again apologize if I have offended anyone with my poor choice of words.

- Ariana Grande"

unsung

Another spoiled brat...

tbergs

tempo_n_groove said:

This was just posted on FB. I found it to be in poor taste, true or not...

I'd love to analyze Vincent's life and determine what shit storm of karma is coming his way if he feels she nurtured and deserved this after her concert based on one out of context comment. Vincent is more responsible for the attack than her based on that comment alone. 

PJfanwillneverleave1

Ya know, I'm just going to say it.

I can understand the immediate single for the EODM tragedy and the calling for a Chris Cornell single but it is going too far if the request for Pearl Jam to record a tribute album again.  When does it stop?

Pearl Jam is getting lost in the flood.

riley540

I hate America. Just kidding. 

Watch, someone will use that against me someday when I go through tragedy 

oftenreading

unsung said:

Another spoiled brat...

Vincent? Yeah, I agree.

RYME

tempo_n_groove said:

This was just posted on FB. I found it to be in poor taste, true or not...
Well, she is young.  When you're young you think you know everything.  After a while, reality sets in and you realize that you don't know shit.  That's called growing pains.

dignin

Infowars granted White House press credentials, promptly smears victims of Manchester bombing

https://thinkprogress.org/alex-jones-smears-manchester-victims-on-same-day-trump-white-house-gives-infowars-credentials-1c3ab1501ad9

my2hands

InfoWars has White House press credentials?

Lol

Halifax2TheMax

my2hands said:

InfoWars has White House press credentials?

Lol

If you didn't catch the Frontline piece on Steve Bannon last night on PBS, you should.