I'm not in a band, but I play guitar, and what I play tends to fall in a certain type of sound. I would imagine the same would happen when you get five guys together. It's partly why they have solo projects. When the band writes a song, they want it to be a "Pearl Jam" song, as I think every band asks is this a "_______" song? There's a difference between experimental and sounding fresh. Most of the experimental stuff happened in the late 60's with rock music. Right now, if a rock band attempts to be experimental, they probably wont fall into the rock genre anymore. Solo artists tend to cross genres more often e.g. Neil Young and Ben Harper, but they still sound like Neil and Ben. Artists tend to have a consistency in their work, whatever the medium. For me, PJ always sounds relevant and the new stuff is exciting to hear.
Very true. Probably why Springsteen can do what he does too since he writes all the songs. His fusion of rock and folks music was awesome on the latest record.
It sounds like Mind Your Manners is just a combination of PJ songs already written before. They've become a horribly predictable band.
But my biggest complaint is that they're stuck... They're doing something wrong, they're not interesting anymore, and it's sad to me.
It's as if Pearl Jam either don't know how to experiment anymore, or they don't want to experiment anymore.
:fp:
In my opinion, probably the most illogical post I've ever read (cut out the bullshit to concentrate on the most ridiculous highlights).
Suppose everyone who's a 10 Club member thought the same way...irrelevant. The most gifted musician in the entire world could believe and say the same thing, and it wouldn't matter. So, anyone whose musical abilities are even in the same ballpark (Wrigley Field) as the likes of Edward Louis Severson III, Stoney Gossard, Jeff Ament, Mike McFuckin'Cready, or Matt Cameron, don't have shit to opine on how they make their music.
Yeah, it's a fan club forum and we can all share our opinions. Share, share, share. There's a fly on the wall of the bathroom at Pearl Jam's rehearsal studio whose opinion holds more water.
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
and this conversation about true fans,bigger fans is really stupid...
you are a fan of something,or you are not a fan...end of story..
and if you dont like a song or something the band doing,doesnt make you less of a fan...
for me the issue is what people expecting??
pj to save the world??to start a revolution?to feed the people who starving?
to take the money from the rich and give it the poor???
its a rock band..playing music,they are working at music intustry,they are artist,create music,.give shows,selling their music,like every band in the world..
for sure are charismatic,they have their way to express them self,give a different meaning in thing..inspire us as fans as human beings....im a fan,i love them to death.
but the same time,i know ,tomorrow i need to get up at 5:30 am to go to work for get paid and buy some food to have on my table..pj cant help me with that..
inspire me,?makes me feel good?.happy??.put music and words to what i have in my mind?..express my feeling?
yes they can do that..they doing it 22 years now..and really thank them for that..
Very well said, Dimi!
I listen to PJ because they make me feel good and continue to for over 20 years.
I love much about the so-called "experimental" albums, but there's only so far you can go with this type of stuff before it becomes annoying.
Do we need another accordion tune, a la "Bugs?"
Another spoken word tune, a la "Bushleaguer" or "I'm Open?"
Another uke tune?
I'm at the point in my life, I just want to listen to an album of songs, man. I don't need a bunch of pseudo avante guard sound experiments mucking up my records.
As far as the music goes ... on Backspacer alone: Johnny Guitar sounds like nothing else on a PJ album (it's not a great song, IMO, but it's different). Speed of Sound the same. Though there are other acoustic ballads in the PJ canon, "Just Breathe" and "The End" sound different that anything on other albums.
On Self-Titled: Unemployable feels like a new musical direction. So does Army Reserve. So does Parachutes. So does Inside Job.
So if the criticism is that Pearl Jam doesn't push the musical envelope anymore, I can't agree with that. If the critcism is, "their punk inspired tunes all sound vaguely similar" ... well, guess what, all punk music sounds vaguely similar. That's kind of the point of it.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
A lot of us older PJ fans were also taught very early by Pearl Jam that music is supposed to be serious and impactful. PJ ripped on pop bands, PJ ripped on sponsors, PJ ripped on artists selling their music for commercials, etc.... It was about the music. About the music. So when we start to hear more pop influence in the music and how the record was made very quickly resulting in 30 minutes of music our response is "what?".
If you think Mind Your Manners has any sort of "pop influence" whatsoever, I don't think you're really aware of what actual pop music sounds like nowadays.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
=- Pearl Jam have gone through zero evolution ever since 2002... This song just sounds like they combined Worldwide Suicide with Ole with Spin the Black Circle with Comatose... etc... It sounds like Mind Your Manners is just a combination of PJ songs already written before. They've become a horribly predictable band.
As a longtime - and old - hardcore PJ fan, it's sad to me to admit they just aren't interesting anymore. They have intensity, but their creativity is zero.
It's not just that Pearl Jam are repeating themselves and have become predictable - it's also that their musicianship hasn't even really improved.
It's as if Pearl Jam either don't know how to experiment anymore, or they don't want to experiment anymore.
just read this......any one else feel this way?
Wow. These are some pretty ridiculous statements IMO. I think they continue to push their creativity and are anything but predictable. Somehow after 22 years I think I'm more of a fan than ever (and I listen to a LOT of other music/bands). Sometimes I think people 1) expect way too much from them. Most often probably something unattainable and 2) want them to be like the PJ of the early to mid 90's which they're never gonna be again. Which by the way shows how they DO continue to evolve and create new and interesting material.
Anyway, I know everyone is entitled to their opinion but I for one love the current PJ just as much as I loved the 1995 PJ. Maybe it's because I'm in a similar place as them in life? Or that I've just grown along with them? Or maybe because I love punk and punk inspired PJ? I don't know but I'm happy they still put out kick ass things like the Mind Your Manners video and can't wait to hear the rest of Lightning Bolt!
I love much about the so-called "experimental" albums, but there's only so far you can go with this type of stuff before it becomes annoying.
Do we need another accordion tune, a la "Bugs?"
Another spoken word tune, a la "Bushleaguer" or "I'm Open?"
Another uke tune?
I'm at the point in my life, I just want to listen to an album of songs, man. I don't need a bunch of pseudo avante guard sound experiments mucking up my records.
As far as the music goes ... on Backspacer alone: Johnny Guitar sounds like nothing else on a PJ album (it's not a great song, IMO, but it's different). Speed of Sound the same. Though there are other acoustic ballads in the PJ canon, "Just Breathe" and "The End" sound different that anything on other albums.
On Self-Titled: Unemployable feels like a new musical direction. So does Army Reserve. So does Parachutes. So does Inside Job.
So if the criticism is that Pearl Jam doesn't push the musical envelope anymore, I can't agree with that. If the critcism is, "their punk inspired tunes all sound vaguely similar" ... well, guess what, all punk music sounds vaguely similar. That's kind of the point of it.
Good post. I agree with all of this.(well I do still kinda like my avante guard shit sometimes though :geek: )
A lot of us older PJ fans were also taught very early by Pearl Jam that music is supposed to be serious and impactful. PJ ripped on pop bands, PJ ripped on sponsors, PJ ripped on artists selling their music for commercials, etc.... It was about the music. About the music. So when we start to hear more pop influence in the music and how the record was made very quickly resulting in 30 minutes of music our response is "what?".
If you think Mind Your Manners has any sort of "pop influence" whatsoever, I don't think you're really aware of what actual pop music sounds like nowadays.
I like MYM a lot. Did I say every song has a pop influence? Nope. That doesn't mean the songs are great.
This is a pre-Lightning Bolt discussion. Let's see what they come up with. I'm not thrilled with Lightning Bolt (at least comes with a guitar solo) and Future Days, but MYM is great.
A lot of us older PJ fans were also taught very early by Pearl Jam that music is supposed to be serious and impactful. PJ ripped on pop bands, PJ ripped on sponsors, PJ ripped on artists selling their music for commercials, etc.... It was about the music. About the music. So when we start to hear more pop influence in the music and how the record was made very quickly resulting in 30 minutes of music our response is "what?".
I think a lot of the "complaining" is born out of the stands that Pearl Jam took early on. For example, fast forward from "Sponsored by No One" tour in the mid-nineties to playing the Oracle private party in 2012. If fans on this board complain about playing the Oracle show they are labeled as bitching when it is Pearl Jam's views early on that they were very vocal about that made the fans feel the way they did about the importance of the music.
It is like Pearl Jam consistently told you for 15 years that blue is good and red is bad. Then in year 16 they release red and people aren't allowed to complain that they released red.
i really try to understand that...
at 1992--94-98..pj was get paid of what they did..as they do now..
they was selling t-shirt-posters,they sell records..just they do now..i dont see any difference..
they did charity..they still do it today..
its their job..proffecional musicians..red or blue...its their job,and get paid for that..and they deserve it
they was getting paid when they told you that blue is good and red is bad ..and get paid when they say red is good now..
for me matters what YOU thing is good.,.Blue?red...or Green...
and something last...is strange some people think that all things changing around us but expect pj to stay the same like was at 91..
Look, we all know you are the resident super-huge-mega-awesome-they-can-and-never-will-do-no-wrong fan, but what bootlegger10 said is 100% true. I'm assuming by the shows you've been to that you may not have been a fan since 91/92 like a lot of us because if you were, you wouldn't be making comments like this. I know you're a great guy but c'mon man, you are the textbook example of an apologist if there ever was one.
A lot of us older PJ fans were also taught very early by Pearl Jam that music is supposed to be serious and impactful. PJ ripped on pop bands, PJ ripped on sponsors, PJ ripped on artists selling their music for commercials, etc.... It was about the music. About the music. So when we start to hear more pop influence in the music and how the record was made very quickly resulting in 30 minutes of music our response is "what?".
I think a lot of the "complaining" is born out of the stands that Pearl Jam took early on. For example, fast forward from "Sponsored by No One" tour in the mid-nineties to playing the Oracle private party in 2012. If fans on this board complain about playing the Oracle show they are labeled as bitching when it is Pearl Jam's views early on that they were very vocal about that made the fans feel the way they did about the importance of the music.
It is like Pearl Jam consistently told you for 15 years that blue is good and red is bad. Then in year 16 they release red and people aren't allowed to complain that they released red.
i really try to understand that...
at 1992--94-98..pj was get paid of what they did..as they do now..
they was selling t-shirt-posters,they sell records..just they do now..i dont see any difference..
they did charity..they still do it today..
its their job..proffecional musicians..red or blue...its their job,and get paid for that..and they deserve it
they was getting paid when they told you that blue is good and red is bad ..and get paid when they say red is good now..
for me matters what YOU thing is good.,.Blue?red...or Green...
and something last...is strange some people think that all things changing around us but expect pj to stay the same like was at 91..
Look, we all know you are the resident super-huge-mega-awesome-they-can-and-never-will-do-no-wrong fan, but what bootlegger10 said is 100% true. I'm assuming by the shows you've been to that you may not have been a fan since 91/92 like a lot of us because if you were, you wouldn't be making comments like this. I know you're a great guy but c'mon man, you are the textbook example of an apologist if there ever was one.
Look, we all know you are the resident super-huge-mega-awesome-they-can-and-never-will-do-no-wrong fan, but what bootlegger10 said is 100% true. I'm assuming by the shows you've been to that you may not have been a fan since 91/92 like a lot of us because if you were, you wouldn't be making comments like this. I know you're a great guy but c'mon man, you are the textbook example of an apologist if there ever was one.
seems you know everything about me..ill tell my mom to contact you..she dont know her son as well as you do..
ofcourse talking about me and not about my opinion will not make any difference at the topic or you can use it as an argument and make your opinion stronger and prove you are right..
as for the topic my opinion stays..pj is a rock band..they are not the rebels some people think was at 90"s and now they are not..
they are proffecional musicians from day one..thats their job....they get paid for their job from day one..no matter when someone is a fan or a member here..thats their job..we are fan of their work..
and they do it very very well imo.....
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
some people talk like they voted pj for president to save the world and they let them down with their economy and health care program..
its a Rock Band...and a pretty good one.the best on the planet for me...and thats all....
Seriously, it's music, entertainment, not a topic to debate, it's to be enjoyed, not dissected.
i agree..its music, its entertainment, some people think Eddie at 90's was a rebel like Che Guevara and now he is a sell out cos they sell at the store more shirts and dont like his latest songs..
for me was an artist and a proffecional musician back at 91 when i listen first time Jeremy on radio ,
and he is an artist and a proffecional musician ,the one i saw that went on stage at Wrigley a month ago..
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Look, we all know you are the resident super-huge-mega-awesome-they-can-and-never-will-do-no-wrong fan, but what bootlegger10 said is 100% true. I'm assuming by the shows you've been to that you may not have been a fan since 91/92 like a lot of us because if you were, you wouldn't be making comments like this. I know you're a great guy but c'mon man, you are the textbook example of an apologist if there ever was one.
seems you know everything about me..ill tell my mom to contact you..she dont know her son as well as you do..
ofcourse talking about me and not about my opinion will not make any difference at the topic or you can use it as an argument and make your opinion stronger and prove you are right..
as for the topic my opinion stays..pj is a rock band..they are not the rebels some people think was at 90"s and now they are not..
they are proffecional musicians from day one..thats their job....they get paid for their job from day one..no matter when someone is a fan or a member here..thats their job..we are fan of their work..
and they do it very very well imo.....
I would assume you choose to represent yourself by the opinions you give here, no? All I was saying is that I have never stumbled across any of your thousands upon thousands of posts that ever agreed with anyone pointing out something factual that JUST might paint the band in a slightly negative light. It's one thing to be a big fan, after all, that's why we're all here. But to dismiss all constructive criticism from longtime fans who know what they're talking about is ridiculous.
But please, I don't want to get into a back-and-forth with you or anyone else. It's not my thing.
I would assume you choose to represent yourself by the opinions you give here, no? All I was saying is that I have never stumbled across any of your thousands upon thousands of posts that ever agreed with anyone pointing out something factual that JUST might paint the band in a slightly negative light. It's one thing to be a big fan, after all, that's why we're all here. But to dismiss all constructive criticism from longtime fans who know what they're talking about is ridiculous.
But please, I don't want to get into a back-and-forth with you or anyone else. It's not my thing.
i can see isnt your thing;..seems those wasnt your comments and i imagine them..:
"we all know you are the resident super-huge-mega-awesome-they-can-and-never-will-do-no-wrong fan,"
" I'm assuming by the shows you've been to that you may not have been a fan since 91/92 like a lot of us because if you were, you wouldn't be making comments like this."
"I know you're a great guy but c'mon man, you are the textbook example of an apologist if there ever was one."
how all this has to do with the topic?..you can say your opinion about the topic,disagree with my opinion without include all this about me,who im,put this labels-names for me,when i become a fan..?
does opinion matters here only by counting how many years someone is a fan?or become a member?
what was the point of your comments??you know me??you clearly didnt care to talk about the topic but to talk about me..why?
ill tell you this..you dont know shit about me..you know only my name ,where i come from and that im a member and i post here..nothing else...
and please someone tell me here,of the ones is A FAN from 90"s and went to the shows back then,
was the concerts for free back then??did u guys paid money for tickets?
did the band take money for their records back then or was for free?was posters andf shirts at the show for free? or just the last years pj start being a sell out and start selling records,and taking money from the shows they played?
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I don't think the guys are putting in the time to put out an album that is "great". I loved both Avocado and Backspacer but I wouldn't classify them as great. Creating an album together rather than meeting sporadically and bringing pieces really changes the collaboration in my opinion. Everyone has side/solo projects that then take precedent over PJ tours and new material.
20-30 shows a year/many festivals are the norm now. New album 3-4 years? I guess we are riding the last few waves? After 25 years and a Hall of Fame induction will they call it a day or slow even more.?
1994 : Memphis 1995 : New Orleans 1996 : Seattle
1998 : St Louis, Birmingham, Knoxville
2000 : Memphis, Nashville, St Louis
2003 : Irvine 1+2, Vegas, Bridge School 1+2, Santa Barbara
2005 : Missoula, Vancouver, Gorge 2006 : LA 1+2, Vegas
2008 : W Palm Beach, Tampa, Who Rock Honors, EV LA 2
2009 : LA 1, LA 4, EV 1 Nashville 2011 : EV Long Beach
2012: EV Vegas 1+2
2013 LA 1+2 2018 Prague, Wrigley 2 2020 Phoenix, SD
•
But now I have to agree with those people I used to defend PJ against - Pearl Jam have gone through zero evolution ever since 2002...
As a longtime - and old - hardcore PJ fan, it's sad to me to admit they just aren't interesting anymore. They have intensity, but their creativity is zero. Stone Gossard said Lightning Bolt is an experimental album - well I sure hope it is... But based on this single - as well as the title of the album itself - it sounds to me like Pearl Jam should just stop if this is how creative they are these days.
It's not just that Pearl Jam are repeating themselves and have become predictable - it's also that their musicianship hasn't even really improved.
I've seen bands like Radiohead and Sonic Youth become better and better musicians seemingly every year.... And Pearl Jam don't become better musicians - I don't hear it in their music at all. Has their musicianship improved since they wrote "Black", or "Rearviewmirror"? But my biggest complaint is that they're stuck... They're doing something wrong, they're not interesting anymore, and it's sad to me.
It's as if Pearl Jam either don't know how to experiment anymore, or they don't want to experiment anymore.
IF RS means RollingStones.com, we shouldnt even take it seriously, IMO.
For everyone voicing out a little bit negativity and criticism, I respect your opinions but you are very wrong-footed if you are basing your thoughts on this text. Because this text is nonsense.
For the timespan mentioned here, since 2002, which involves the last 3 albums, one can say I didnt like the last 3 records and that opinion is respectable. There is nothing to be argued about that.
But, how was Riot Act predictable, for God-sake? How was Avocado predictable? I think the last 3 albums are all very different from each other. How it can be said the band is not evolving when you have 3 different albums?
And the author's opinion about musicianship contradicts itself. At start, he was saying he was a hardcore fan, not a 10 fan, he was into all other albums, etc... and then he says their musicianship hasnt improved since Black or RVM.
I agree that B/S is a pop-sounding album. And LB and FD also have a similar sound. But I think a lot of bands put out some pop stuff at some stage. To reach out to more, maybe. Or maybe that is where their evolution of musicianship has brought, at that point. A bunch of bands did the same. U2, Metallica did that, hell, even Led Zeppelin even did that with the later records.
What's your part, who you are?
2012: Arras, Berlin 1-2
2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires
2014: Milano, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin
2016: NY MSG 1
I don't think any Pearl Jam album was predictable, but the last three records can't compete with the first 6 when it comes to songwriting.
Something is missing for me, the special Pearl Jam ingredient.
These are good rock records, but I wouldn't fall in love with the band because of albums like ST or Backspacer (Riot Act is somewhere in the middle between the great records and the average stuff).
What I don't understand in this discussion is people saying to relax because it is 'only music'.
WTF, Pearl Jam is more than 'only music', as good art often is much more than only entertainment or joy.
Music can change lives, it can have a huge impact on people.
Knowing the band and knowing about the impact music had on the Pearl Jam members (especially on Eddie), this statement is ridiculous.
What I don't understand in this discussion is people saying to relax because it is 'only music'.
WTF, Pearl Jam is more than 'only music', as good art often is much more than only entertainment or joy.
Music can change lives, it can have a huge impact on people.
Knowing the band and knowing about the impact music had on the Pearl Jam members (especially on Eddie), this statement is ridiculous.
I never liked Ed's comment in PJ20 about learning he doesn't have to edit so much and really dig deep for the lyrics. I kinda think that hard work paid off big time for the first 6 records.
A lot of us older PJ fans were also taught very early by Pearl Jam that music is supposed to be serious and impactful. PJ ripped on pop bands, PJ ripped on sponsors, PJ ripped on artists selling their music for commercials, etc.... It was about the music. About the music. So when we start to hear more pop influence in the music and how the record was made very quickly resulting in 30 minutes of music our response is "what?".
I think a lot of the "complaining" is born out of the stands that Pearl Jam took early on. For example, fast forward from "Sponsored by No One" tour in the mid-nineties to playing the Oracle private party in 2012. If fans on this board complain about playing the Oracle show they are labeled as bitching when it is Pearl Jam's views early on that they were very vocal about that made the fans feel the way they did about the importance of the music.
It is like Pearl Jam consistently told you for 15 years that blue is good and red is bad. Then in year 16 they release red and people aren't allowed to complain that they released red.
And thank you. The fact that some on here claim "it's just music" blows my mind. Pearl Jam has been an ETHOS defining factor in my life. My teen years were instrumental in developing the philosophies I carried with me into adulthood and besides my family, nothing has been more influential in that development than the bands I listened to and the culture born of them. Would ANY hip hop fan say "hip hop is just music"? No, they wouldn't. "It's culture!" they'd say. Well, it's the same for me with rock and punk. It was the prism through which I saw the world. I think maybe some others here would agree and if one feels the way I do, it's a let down when things take a 180 degree turn musically. It's a let down when the greatest lyricist of a generation says in his own movie that lyrics basically aren't all that important to him anymore. Is it the end of the world? Of course not. But it is a fucking let down.
Maybe it's just music to some, but it sure as hell never was to me.
Oh and if you disagree or think what I've said above is weird or maybe you can't relate...Go watch No Direction Home (as a primer). Develop a little insight into the power that music had on people, on culture, on our opinion of ourselves as a people; as a nation. Don't be such an MTV, fucking ADD, 10 second attention span, Moon fucking Man, jelly fish product of our limp, dead, vegetable culture. Please, you're a Pearl Jam fan. Resisting that shit used to be our calling.
I don't think any Pearl Jam album was predictable, but the last three records can't compete with the first 6 when it comes to songwriting.
Something is missing for me, the special Pearl Jam ingredient.
These are good rock records, but I wouldn't fall in love with the band because of albums like ST or Backspacer (Riot Act is somewhere in the middle between the great records and the average stuff).
What I don't understand in this discussion is people saying to relax because it is 'only music'.
WTF, Pearl Jam is more than 'only music', as good art often is much more than only entertainment or joy.
Music can change lives, it can have a huge impact on people.
Knowing the band and knowing about the impact music had on the Pearl Jam members (especially on Eddie), this statement is ridiculous.
its more than music for all the fans for sure....i agree
but 1st of all is music..are musicians..those guys are a rock band..
they dont say,hi,swe are the guys will save the planet....vote for us,will give houses to homeless..
i just put London 09 bootleg to listen..well..ill listen their music..thats why i bought it..
isnt my business if they selling shirts or flags,i dont care if they are married otr not,if they will fly with American airlines or private jets if they play to festivals or at jimmy fallon show..
as for the records..
and sorry but i found songs like Im Mine,Ghost,Life Wasted,Save you,INSIDE JOB ,Unthought known,Army Reserve,All Or None away better songs than some they had in their first 6 records..for exable Mankind,Push Me, Pull Me,Small town etc..
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I love much about the so-called "experimental" albums, but there's only so far you can go with this type of stuff before it becomes annoying.
Do we need another accordion tune, a la "Bugs?"
Another spoken word tune, a la "Bushleaguer" or "I'm Open?"
Another uke tune?
I'm at the point in my life, I just want to listen to an album of songs, man. I don't need a bunch of pseudo avante guard sound experiments mucking up my records.
As far as the music goes ... on Backspacer alone: Johnny Guitar sounds like nothing else on a PJ album (it's not a great song, IMO, but it's different). Speed of Sound the same. Though there are other acoustic ballads in the PJ canon, "Just Breathe" and "The End" sound different that anything on other albums.
On Self-Titled: Unemployable feels like a new musical direction. So does Army Reserve. So does Parachutes. So does Inside Job.
So if the criticism is that Pearl Jam doesn't push the musical envelope anymore, I can't agree with that. If the critcism is, "their punk inspired tunes all sound vaguely similar" ... well, guess what, all punk music sounds vaguely similar. That's kind of the point of it.
i agree..let the boys put out their music..for them its new stuff,its the way they express them selfs..
in the end,we dont need to like all their songs..and it doeant mean cos its "experimental" will sound good..maybe will not..
and yeah..all this punk tunes sound similar..
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
The reason Pearl Jam has this huge, devoted hardcore fanbase is that the band is more than just music.
I fell in love with this band because they had something to say.
They did not back down.
They stood for something.
They were anti corporate and anti establishment.
They were brutaly honest.
They sang about stuff I was thinking but couldn't express nearly as good as they did.
They challenged their fans.
They took care of their fans.
This is why PJ is (and always will be) way more than music to me.
The reason Pearl Jam has this huge, devoted hardcore fanbase is that the band is more than just music.
I fell in love with this band because they had something to say.
They did not back down.
They stood for something.
They were anti corporate and anti establishment.
They were brutaly honest.
They sang about stuff I was thinking but couldn't express nearly as good as they did.
They challenged their fans.
They took care of their fans.
This is why PJ is (and always will be) way more than music to me.
If you are writing this within the context of the RS article, targeting the last 3 records, as I've said before, you're dead wrong-footed.
2 of the most controversial albums of PJ belonged to the last 3 IMO, meaning Riot act and Avocado. THe band was still saying something in these albums, if you were there to get it. All things you write above were actually present in these 2 albums.
I love PJ because I am proud that they have songs like WWS and Bushleaguer, they have an album like Riot Act.
What's your part, who you are?
2012: Arras, Berlin 1-2
2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires
2014: Milano, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin
2016: NY MSG 1
When pj has changed the way they have, adapting a whole different mindset and focus from what they used to have, it is only natural that people will be turned off by it. I am one of those. I have accepted it and moving on. There are so much good music out there that losing faith in new pearl jam music doesnt feel like such a big loss anymore. Besides, I will always have the pj music that defined my youth, and that will always be with me and stay treasured.
I will stay in the back with my ears open, picking up the surprises when and if they show up And there are always the live shows.
The reason Pearl Jam has this huge, devoted hardcore fanbase is that the band is more than just music.
I fell in love with this band because they had something to say.
They did not back down.
They stood for something.
They were anti corporate and anti establishment.
They were brutaly honest.
They sang about stuff I was thinking but couldn't express nearly as good as they did.
They challenged their fans.
They took care of their fans.
This is why PJ is (and always will be) way more than music to me.
If you are writing this within the context of the RS article, targeting the last 3 records, as I've said before, you're dead wrong-footed.
I wrote this as an answer to the argument that it is 'only music'.
For me, Pearl Jam surely is more.
And yes, I think since after 2000, some of the points I mentioned don't exist any more.
I like Backspacer, but I don't see how the things I mentioned are present in this album.
By the way, even Mike sounded disappointed when talking about Backspacer compared to the new album.
I see Riot Act being an album in between phases, but the last two records are a major disappointment to me under the aspect of what the band is capable of.
I can't wait to listen to LB because I have hope that the band can return to form.
The reason Pearl Jam has this huge, devoted hardcore fanbase is that the band is more than just music.
I fell in love with this band because they had something to say.
They did not back down.
They stood for something.
They were anti corporate and anti establishment.
They were brutaly honest.
They sang about stuff I was thinking but couldn't express nearly as good as they did.
They challenged their fans.
They took care of their fans.
This is why PJ is (and always will be) way more than music to me.
they still do alot of those things,or they do it with different way .maybe they do it with the wisdom of be 50 years old and have families..
doeasnt mean we have to agree with them or the way they choose..
but its their way to do things now..its artist..you cant just be in their minds and talk what theur art means.
the thing i want to ask u..is this
you said "They sang about stuff I was thinking but couldn't express nearly as good as they did."
ill give u an exable..Inside Job....is one of the songs..that completely put out the words and thoughts i have in mind,and i feel it so much better and express myself..away more than songs of their first records..
and i read alot,not me,im not fan of the song..but away alot of fans feels that"Just Breathe " is a song they found something so unique in the lyrics,and the music..
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
the thing i want to ask u..is this
you said "They sang about stuff I was thinking but couldn't express nearly as good as they did."
ill give u an exable..Inside Job....is one of the songs..that completely put out the words and thoughts i have in mind,and i feel it so much better and express myself..away more than songs of their first records..
It is great that Inside Job does this for you!
Even better for you as a Mike fan that this is a Mike song.
We all are different, so we all love different aspects of the band.
I liked the lyrics and the way Eddie expressed himself better in the first 6-7 records.
The last two didn't speak to me the same way.
But as you said, people change, and so does the band.
I still love them, but they took a direction different from the one I prefer.
Others like the new stuff.
It would be boring if we would all think and feel the same.
Comments
Very true. Probably why Springsteen can do what he does too since he writes all the songs. His fusion of rock and folks music was awesome on the latest record.
In my opinion, probably the most illogical post I've ever read (cut out the bullshit to concentrate on the most ridiculous highlights).
Suppose everyone who's a 10 Club member thought the same way...irrelevant. The most gifted musician in the entire world could believe and say the same thing, and it wouldn't matter. So, anyone whose musical abilities are even in the same ballpark (Wrigley Field) as the likes of Edward Louis Severson III, Stoney Gossard, Jeff Ament, Mike McFuckin'Cready, or Matt Cameron, don't have shit to opine on how they make their music.
Yeah, it's a fan club forum and we can all share our opinions. Share, share, share. There's a fly on the wall of the bathroom at Pearl Jam's rehearsal studio whose opinion holds more water.
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Very well said, Dimi!
I listen to PJ because they make me feel good and continue to for over 20 years.
Do we need another accordion tune, a la "Bugs?"
Another spoken word tune, a la "Bushleaguer" or "I'm Open?"
Another uke tune?
I'm at the point in my life, I just want to listen to an album of songs, man. I don't need a bunch of pseudo avante guard sound experiments mucking up my records.
As far as the music goes ... on Backspacer alone: Johnny Guitar sounds like nothing else on a PJ album (it's not a great song, IMO, but it's different). Speed of Sound the same. Though there are other acoustic ballads in the PJ canon, "Just Breathe" and "The End" sound different that anything on other albums.
On Self-Titled: Unemployable feels like a new musical direction. So does Army Reserve. So does Parachutes. So does Inside Job.
So if the criticism is that Pearl Jam doesn't push the musical envelope anymore, I can't agree with that. If the critcism is, "their punk inspired tunes all sound vaguely similar" ... well, guess what, all punk music sounds vaguely similar. That's kind of the point of it.
for the least they could possibly do
If you think Mind Your Manners has any sort of "pop influence" whatsoever, I don't think you're really aware of what actual pop music sounds like nowadays.
for the least they could possibly do
Anyway, I know everyone is entitled to their opinion but I for one love the current PJ just as much as I loved the 1995 PJ. Maybe it's because I'm in a similar place as them in life? Or that I've just grown along with them? Or maybe because I love punk and punk inspired PJ? I don't know but I'm happy they still put out kick ass things like the Mind Your Manners video and can't wait to hear the rest of Lightning Bolt!
Seriously, it's music, entertainment, not a topic to debate, it's to be enjoyed, not dissected.
I like MYM a lot. Did I say every song has a pop influence? Nope. That doesn't mean the songs are great.
This is a pre-Lightning Bolt discussion. Let's see what they come up with. I'm not thrilled with Lightning Bolt (at least comes with a guitar solo) and Future Days, but MYM is great.
Look, we all know you are the resident super-huge-mega-awesome-they-can-and-never-will-do-no-wrong fan, but what bootlegger10 said is 100% true. I'm assuming by the shows you've been to that you may not have been a fan since 91/92 like a lot of us because if you were, you wouldn't be making comments like this. I know you're a great guy but c'mon man, you are the textbook example of an apologist if there ever was one.
seems you know everything about me..ill tell my mom to contact you..she dont know her son as well as you do..
ofcourse talking about me and not about my opinion will not make any difference at the topic or you can use it as an argument and make your opinion stronger and prove you are right..
as for the topic my opinion stays..pj is a rock band..they are not the rebels some people think was at 90"s and now they are not..
they are proffecional musicians from day one..thats their job....they get paid for their job from day one..no matter when someone is a fan or a member here..thats their job..we are fan of their work..
and they do it very very well imo.....
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
for me was an artist and a proffecional musician back at 91 when i listen first time Jeremy on radio ,
and he is an artist and a proffecional musician ,the one i saw that went on stage at Wrigley a month ago..
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I would assume you choose to represent yourself by the opinions you give here, no? All I was saying is that I have never stumbled across any of your thousands upon thousands of posts that ever agreed with anyone pointing out something factual that JUST might paint the band in a slightly negative light. It's one thing to be a big fan, after all, that's why we're all here. But to dismiss all constructive criticism from longtime fans who know what they're talking about is ridiculous.
But please, I don't want to get into a back-and-forth with you or anyone else. It's not my thing.
"we all know you are the resident super-huge-mega-awesome-they-can-and-never-will-do-no-wrong fan,"
" I'm assuming by the shows you've been to that you may not have been a fan since 91/92 like a lot of us because if you were, you wouldn't be making comments like this."
"I know you're a great guy but c'mon man, you are the textbook example of an apologist if there ever was one."
how all this has to do with the topic?..you can say your opinion about the topic,disagree with my opinion without include all this about me,who im,put this labels-names for me,when i become a fan..?
does opinion matters here only by counting how many years someone is a fan?or become a member?
what was the point of your comments??you know me??you clearly didnt care to talk about the topic but to talk about me..why?
ill tell you this..you dont know shit about me..you know only my name ,where i come from and that im a member and i post here..nothing else...
and please someone tell me here,of the ones is A FAN from 90"s and went to the shows back then,
was the concerts for free back then??did u guys paid money for tickets?
did the band take money for their records back then or was for free?was posters andf shirts at the show for free? or just the last years pj start being a sell out and start selling records,and taking money from the shows they played?
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
20-30 shows a year/many festivals are the norm now. New album 3-4 years? I guess we are riding the last few waves? After 25 years and a Hall of Fame induction will they call it a day or slow even more.?
1998 : St Louis, Birmingham, Knoxville
2000 : Memphis, Nashville, St Louis
2003 : Irvine 1+2, Vegas, Bridge School 1+2, Santa Barbara
2005 : Missoula, Vancouver, Gorge 2006 : LA 1+2, Vegas
2008 : W Palm Beach, Tampa, Who Rock Honors, EV LA 2
2009 : LA 1, LA 4, EV 1 Nashville 2011 : EV Long Beach
2012: EV Vegas 1+2
2013 LA 1+2 2018 Prague, Wrigley 2
2020 Phoenix, SD
IF RS means RollingStones.com, we shouldnt even take it seriously, IMO.
For everyone voicing out a little bit negativity and criticism, I respect your opinions but you are very wrong-footed if you are basing your thoughts on this text. Because this text is nonsense.
For the timespan mentioned here, since 2002, which involves the last 3 albums, one can say I didnt like the last 3 records and that opinion is respectable. There is nothing to be argued about that.
But, how was Riot Act predictable, for God-sake? How was Avocado predictable? I think the last 3 albums are all very different from each other. How it can be said the band is not evolving when you have 3 different albums?
And the author's opinion about musicianship contradicts itself. At start, he was saying he was a hardcore fan, not a 10 fan, he was into all other albums, etc... and then he says their musicianship hasnt improved since Black or RVM.
I agree that B/S is a pop-sounding album. And LB and FD also have a similar sound. But I think a lot of bands put out some pop stuff at some stage. To reach out to more, maybe. Or maybe that is where their evolution of musicianship has brought, at that point. A bunch of bands did the same. U2, Metallica did that, hell, even Led Zeppelin even did that with the later records.
2012: Arras, Berlin 1-2
2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires
2014: Milano, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin
2016: NY MSG 1
Something is missing for me, the special Pearl Jam ingredient.
These are good rock records, but I wouldn't fall in love with the band because of albums like ST or Backspacer (Riot Act is somewhere in the middle between the great records and the average stuff).
What I don't understand in this discussion is people saying to relax because it is 'only music'.
WTF, Pearl Jam is more than 'only music', as good art often is much more than only entertainment or joy.
Music can change lives, it can have a huge impact on people.
Knowing the band and knowing about the impact music had on the Pearl Jam members (especially on Eddie), this statement is ridiculous.
Thank you.
Thank you.
And thank you. The fact that some on here claim "it's just music" blows my mind. Pearl Jam has been an ETHOS defining factor in my life. My teen years were instrumental in developing the philosophies I carried with me into adulthood and besides my family, nothing has been more influential in that development than the bands I listened to and the culture born of them. Would ANY hip hop fan say "hip hop is just music"? No, they wouldn't. "It's culture!" they'd say. Well, it's the same for me with rock and punk. It was the prism through which I saw the world. I think maybe some others here would agree and if one feels the way I do, it's a let down when things take a 180 degree turn musically. It's a let down when the greatest lyricist of a generation says in his own movie that lyrics basically aren't all that important to him anymore. Is it the end of the world? Of course not. But it is a fucking let down.
Maybe it's just music to some, but it sure as hell never was to me.
Oh and if you disagree or think what I've said above is weird or maybe you can't relate...Go watch No Direction Home (as a primer). Develop a little insight into the power that music had on people, on culture, on our opinion of ourselves as a people; as a nation. Don't be such an MTV, fucking ADD, 10 second attention span, Moon fucking Man, jelly fish product of our limp, dead, vegetable culture. Please, you're a Pearl Jam fan. Resisting that shit used to be our calling.
Alright. Bed time.
but 1st of all is music..are musicians..those guys are a rock band..
they dont say,hi,swe are the guys will save the planet....vote for us,will give houses to homeless..
i just put London 09 bootleg to listen..well..ill listen their music..thats why i bought it..
isnt my business if they selling shirts or flags,i dont care if they are married otr not,if they will fly with American airlines or private jets if they play to festivals or at jimmy fallon show..
as for the records..
and sorry but i found songs like Im Mine,Ghost,Life Wasted,Save you,INSIDE JOB ,Unthought known,Army Reserve,All Or None away better songs than some they had in their first 6 records..for exable Mankind,Push Me, Pull Me,Small town etc..
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
in the end,we dont need to like all their songs..and it doeant mean cos its "experimental" will sound good..maybe will not..
and yeah..all this punk tunes sound similar..
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I fell in love with this band because they had something to say.
They did not back down.
They stood for something.
They were anti corporate and anti establishment.
They were brutaly honest.
They sang about stuff I was thinking but couldn't express nearly as good as they did.
They challenged their fans.
They took care of their fans.
This is why PJ is (and always will be) way more than music to me.
If you are writing this within the context of the RS article, targeting the last 3 records, as I've said before, you're dead wrong-footed.
2 of the most controversial albums of PJ belonged to the last 3 IMO, meaning Riot act and Avocado. THe band was still saying something in these albums, if you were there to get it. All things you write above were actually present in these 2 albums.
I love PJ because I am proud that they have songs like WWS and Bushleaguer, they have an album like Riot Act.
2012: Arras, Berlin 1-2
2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires
2014: Milano, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin
2016: NY MSG 1
I will stay in the back with my ears open, picking up the surprises when and if they show up
For me, Pearl Jam surely is more.
And yes, I think since after 2000, some of the points I mentioned don't exist any more.
I like Backspacer, but I don't see how the things I mentioned are present in this album.
By the way, even Mike sounded disappointed when talking about Backspacer compared to the new album.
I see Riot Act being an album in between phases, but the last two records are a major disappointment to me under the aspect of what the band is capable of.
I can't wait to listen to LB because I have hope that the band can return to form.
doeasnt mean we have to agree with them or the way they choose..
but its their way to do things now..its artist..you cant just be in their minds and talk what theur art means.
the thing i want to ask u..is this
you said "They sang about stuff I was thinking but couldn't express nearly as good as they did."
ill give u an exable..Inside Job....is one of the songs..that completely put out the words and thoughts i have in mind,and i feel it so much better and express myself..away more than songs of their first records..
and i read alot,not me,im not fan of the song..but away alot of fans feels that"Just Breathe " is a song they found something so unique in the lyrics,and the music..
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Even better for you as a Mike fan that this is a Mike song.
We all are different, so we all love different aspects of the band.
I liked the lyrics and the way Eddie expressed himself better in the first 6-7 records.
The last two didn't speak to me the same way.
But as you said, people change, and so does the band.
I still love them, but they took a direction different from the one I prefer.
Others like the new stuff.
It would be boring if we would all think and feel the same.