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CTD10CTD10 Posts: 351
edited August 2013 in The Porch

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John Polar
• 15 hours ago △ ▽








I saw Pearl Jam at their 10th Anniversary concert in Las Vegas... I've been a Pearl Jam fan a long time... I thought they were one of the best bands ever.

The thing that's so disappointing to me about Pearl Jam today - as compared to how they were in the 90s - is that they truly seem to not experiment at ALL anymore. I used to laugh at people who said Pearl Jam didn't go through evolution, because in my mind I thought of how different albums like No Code, Binaural, and VS sound.... I wasn't just a Ten fan - I loved Binaural, Vitalogy, and No Code all more than I loved Ten.

But now I have to agree with those people I used to defend PJ against - Pearl Jam have gone through zero evolution ever since 2002... This song just sounds like they combined Worldwide Suicide with Ole with Spin the Black Circle with Comatose... etc... It sounds like Mind Your Manners is just a combination of PJ songs already written before. They've become a horribly predictable band.

As a longtime - and old - hardcore PJ fan, it's sad to me to admit they just aren't interesting anymore. They have intensity, but their creativity is zero. Stone Gossard said Lightning Bolt is an experimental album - well I sure hope it is... But based on this single - as well as the title of the album itself - it sounds to me like Pearl Jam should just stop if this is how creative they are these days.

It's not just that Pearl Jam are repeating themselves and have become predictable - it's also that their musicianship hasn't even really improved.
I've seen bands like Radiohead and Sonic Youth become better and better musicians seemingly every year.... And Pearl Jam don't become better musicians - I don't hear it in their music at all. Has their musicianship improved since they wrote "Black", or "Rearviewmirror"? But my biggest complaint is that they're stuck... They're doing something wrong, they're not interesting anymore, and it's sad to me.

It's as if Pearl Jam either don't know how to experiment anymore, or they don't want to experiment anymore.

just read this......any one else feel this way?
ctd
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 9,391
    I agree more than disagree with that post. Need to reserve judgment until Lightning Bolt gets released.

    Certainly Ed's musicianship has improved. Agree though that their music style hasn't changed so we don't know how much McCready has changed his style because he has been stuck in the box that their style has become.

    Not going to jump off the ship though. New PJ is better than no PJ. Plenty of other bands out there to listen to for different styles.

    Think of songs like Let Me Sleep, Happy When I'm Crying, strangest Tribe, Dirty Frank, Push Me Pull Me, Black Red Yellow, etc. They probably do not have the time or want to spend the time on a song that is just different and fun rather than an album song.
  • maki_jmaki_j Posts: 70
    Somewhat agree with this based on the past 2-3 albums, including what we know about LB. Although you also have to remember they've been playing for over 20 years and done so many albums that you have to ask is there anywhere else they could go? I just think they are tapped out creatively. I can't think of a single major band that has lasted this long that has still remained capable of doing a 180 on every other album and coming up with something fresh - that usually only happens when a new guitarist comes in. :nono:

    Here is a thought... after LB dies down they should put out a complete album of full band acoustic, or another mirror ball type project (2-3 song disc) or heres an even better idea... go someplace completely unfamiliar and lock yourselves away TOGETHER for 6 months and create something epic. From what I hear they don't get together much anymore (getting old and have families) that they do a lot of prep separately and then meet for short stints trying to put it all together. That's just my take from what I've read.
  • DM213518DM213518 Posts: 117
    In my personal opinion, pj can do no wrong. I love mind your manners. I love the intensity and the punk rock influences i that song. Pj can rock out and just hammer a crowd. They are fantastic live.They also have songs like Just Breathe and The End. Just Breathe is practically a country song. To me, you have 5 guys with different musical influences that come together and become Pearl Jam. Sure they probably don't hang out that much due to family obligations etc but, I respect that. I don't hang with my buddies like I used to and I hardly pick up my guitar anymore. I look forward to the new album. These guys are definitely pros.(they have put in their 10 000 hrs) (I have heard to be an expert at something up have to dedicate 10 000 hrs to it.) Thanks :D
  • bat2797bat2797 Posts: 67
    I disagree with this guy. They remain relevant and still produce good music. They have obviously grown and matured into good human beings with good family values behind all of the music and hype. You keep doing your thing pj and ill be here listening and watching till...well...the end.
  • Jamminonthe1Jamminonthe1 Posts: 1,243
    I don't think there's a right or wrong here, but the alternative is this: they break up after 10 years (still longer than most bands are together and relevant), put out no new music together, we hardly hear about all of their side projects and we basically get nothing. In this century the side/solo projects have really amped up and while I think at points it does take away from the band musically as a whole, it does prevent them from getting tired of each other and brings them back together even if it's not with the frequency it once was.

    Then there's the whole control issue :lol:
  • I think some people just expect too much. It's just music, they
    Aren't going to give you the meaning of life in
    A 4 minute pop song. I think a song like inside job or
    Even force of nature just proves that they still pump out
    Very interesting, good sounding music. All of the expert fans are
    Judging LB bebore they even hear it. Everyone relax, wait
    Till the record comes out and listen to the whole thing more than once
    Before you trash it cause you didn't get the meaning of life from it.
    Their not better musicians after 23 years? Are you serious? Who are you to say that?
    I think done people are just spoiled and clueless. That's my 2 cents.
  • october22october22 Posts: 2,479
    I think some people just expect too much. It's just music, they
    Aren't going to give you the meaning of life in
    A 4 minute pop song. I think a song like inside job or
    Even force of nature just proves that they still pump out
    Very interesting, good sounding music. All of the expert fans are
    Judging LB bebore they even hear it. Everyone relax, wait
    Till the record comes out and listen to the whole thing more than once
    Before you trash it cause you didn't get the meaning of life from it.
    Their not better musicians after 23 years? Are you serious? Who are you to say that?
    I think done people are just spoiled and clueless. That's my 2 cents.

    Was this written in some type of pentameter? I'm still trying to figure it out...
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 9,391
    I think some people just expect too much. It's just music, they
    Aren't going to give you the meaning of life in
    A 4 minute pop song. I think a song like inside job or
    Even force of nature just proves that they still pump out
    Very interesting, good sounding music. All of the expert fans are
    Judging LB bebore they even hear it. Everyone relax, wait
    Till the record comes out and listen to the whole thing more than once
    Before you trash it cause you didn't get the meaning of life from it.
    Their not better musicians after 23 years? Are you serious? Who are you to say that?
    I think done people are just spoiled and clueless. That's my 2 cents.

    I do not think people are looking for the meaning of life (i know that was sarcasm). And cerainly they are all better musicians than 23 years ago. The poster probably confused style with ability. I think people are waiting for the next album that blows their minds and maybe that is an impossible wish after 23 years. There are bands like U2 where you don't know what style they are going to go with even after 30 years.

    I wonder with YouTube and blogs if it is tougher to release those fun/silly songs like Happy When I'm Crying where in the past those songs were jus listened to by the fans who bought the single but now the song is quickly availble to all and critiqued as if it was meant to be a legitimate release.
  • papa_pearls_jam.pj20papa_pearls_jam.pj20 Chicago USAPosts: 2,142
    october22 wrote:
    I think some people just expect too much. It's just music, they
    Aren't going to give you the meaning of life in
    A 4 minute pop song. I think a song like inside job or
    Even force of nature just proves that they still pump out
    Very interesting, good sounding music. All of the expert fans are
    Judging LB bebore they even hear it. Everyone relax, wait
    Till the record comes out and listen to the whole thing more than once
    Before you trash it cause you didn't get the meaning of life from it.
    Their not better musicians after 23 years? Are you serious? Who are you to say that?
    I think done people are just spoiled and clueless. That's my 2 cents.

    Was this written in some type of pentameter? I'm still trying to figure it out...
    Yes...very poetic-like. Could be a pop song in there, somewhere. Who knows?
    I don't care.
    Posimists. Fuck the pessimists...fuck'em.
  • ALL bands are limited in their evolution to the degree that the members of the band themselves are stylistically limited. This doesn't mean bands and their members don't continue to evolve at all, it just means tha MOST bands tend to follow a similar two stage pattern that is perceived as evolution followed by stagnation.
    That pattern is summed up as
    A. Their time in the shell
    B. coming out of their shell.

    You see it all over rock history, and the leaps and bounds that the public perceives the band to have taken are usually the simple result of crossing from A to B. once the cross is made, evolution almost always seems to slow quickly.

    The Beatles spent almost a half dozen albums making mostly back beat driven three chord jangles about love. Many of the tunes are classics now, but they were all largely in the same mold. They then blew their heads on grass and LSD and came out of their shell. All albums after this transition are largely self similar but so different from the previous works.

    Led Zeppelin wrote (or half stole from blues) two albums of largely similar directly blues based rock songs.
    On their third album they broke out of their shell, and from the looks of the album cover I'm guessing they had started using LSD. All albums after three progress to some extent, but none are radical departures.

    You can't expect bands to evolve past certain inherent limitations placed upon them by the nature and musical inclinations of the band members themselves.

    Even bands that are often cited as not following this doldrums pattern really still do, IMHO. REM and U2 both spent albums producing what would become known as their early classic sounds before both breaking out of their shells and expanding sonically in to modern rock experimentation. Once this process of exploring different sonic approaches occurred though, all that follows is at least, in spirit, similary distinct from early period works.

    If you don't believe this, go listen to any song by these bands, it's not hard to guess "early" or "late". It's fairly obvious.

    Pearl Jam is a modern rock band, heavy on riffs, and light on frills. They seem to be largely against recording music that can not be reproduced solely by the five members live on stage. bands like U2 & REM employ help on stage to get their sounds, and often record music that would be challenging at best to perform live. Absent an utter shift in band sentiment you simply aren't going to produce that radical of a sonic shift late in your career, relying on rudiments (ie five live instruments).

    I sometimes wish pearl jam wasn't so pearl jammy too, but you know what? They are fucking pearl jam.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • DedvwDedvw Posts: 229
    I more disagree more than agree with this comment. I think the BS and some of their newer stuff contains a lot of folk sounds that they haven't played before. It will take some time to totally know how different the recent stuff is from their younger years.

    I was just saying the other day that for a band with close to 200 original hits, only a handful of songs have the "I've heard this from them before" sound.
  • But now I have to agree with those people I used to defend PJ against - Pearl Jam have gone through zero evolution ever since 2002... This song just sounds like they combined Worldwide Suicide with Ole with Spin the Black Circle with Comatose... etc... It sounds like Mind Your Manners is just a combination of PJ songs already written before. They've become a horribly predictable band.

    As a longtime - and old - hardcore PJ fan, it's sad to me to admit they just aren't interesting anymore. They have intensity, but their creativity is zero.


    Quite a statement.
    Free Boston Lou!!!!
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPROPosts: 133,596
    some people talk like they voted pj for president to save the world and they let them down with their economy and health care program..

    its a Rock Band...and a pretty good one.the best on the planet for me...and thats all....
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • TheGossmanTheGossman Posts: 1,104
    I agree with this comment. I've listened to PJ since 94 and the days of me wondering what their next album will sound like are over. I miss the days when I would wait by the radio for the new PJ song and when it was over I couldn't believe it was them. I'm not saying Mind your Manners isn't a good song, it rocks, but it sounds like a song they could have put together in an hour. Then again the album isn't even out yet and I remember Mike saying there was some experiment stuff on it, so that gives me some hope. Just tired of the whole punk rock thing, do something else.
    9/4/98, 8/4/00, 12/8/02, 12/9/02, 4/15/03, 4/16/03, 4/19/03, 4/25/03, 4/26/03, 4/28/03, 4/29/03, 4/30/03, 7/8/03, 7/9/03, 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/6/04, 9/1/05, 9/2/05, 5/16/06, 5/17/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 8/5/07, 6/11/08, 6/12/08, 6/14/08, 6/16/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08
  • some people talk like they voted pj for president to save the world and they let them down with their economy and health care program..

    its a Rock Band...and a pretty good one.the best on the planet for me...and thats all....

    Totally agree! :thumbup:
    "A beacon on dry land"
  • CanNotStayCanNotStay Posts: 137
    The thing is PJ has a bigger pop focus now than they've had since Ten. Thats not necessarily a bad thing, it just doesn't suit my taste particularly. I'm still excited for the album and I'm hoping there's a few songs I really like but I'm keeping my expectations at a relative level.
    6/03/06 Continental Airlines II East Rutherford, NJ
    6/25/08 MSG II New York, NY
    9/02/2012 Made in America Philly, PA
    10/21/13 Wells Fargo Center I GA Philly, PA
    10/22/13 Wells Fargo Center II GA Philly, PA
  • KimmiebyromKimmiebyrom Posts: 1,812
    I remember when No Code was trashed to death when it came out, saying pretty much the same thing as they do now about LB (except they probably waited to hear the whole album first). I don't think they're done, exhausted their creativity or have stopped growing one bit. I do think when/if that happens, we'll not hear another new thing from them collectively again.
    2003 Dallas
    2013 Wrigley
    2013 Dallas
    2013 Oklahoma City
    2013 Seattle

    How I choose to feel is how I am.
    There's just one word I still believe...and it's LOVE.
    "Take care of one another..." -EV
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 9,391
    edited August 2013
    some people talk like they voted pj for president to save the world and they let them down with their economy and health care program..

    its a Rock Band...and a pretty good one.the best on the planet for me...and thats all....

    Pearl Jam to me is all about the lives shows at this point. I've gone to other shows and they can't match how much the PJ and the crowd are on the same page and bringing such energy. But as far as new records, I'm probably looking forward to the next album from The National or even Arcade Fire than Pearl Jam's. It is probably more me but some of it is the fact we are 23 years into this band.

    I never liked Ed's comment in PJ20 about learning he doesn't have to edit so much and really dig deep for the lyrics. I kinda think that hard work paid off big time for the first 6 records. All just speculation though. It was easy to tell though reading Brendan O'Brien's interview he was frustrated with the band's effort. He seemed very non-committal on praising the album completely.
    Post edited by bootlegger10 on
  • More true fans stating their opinions. Go buy a t shirt or better
    Yet stand in line for 5 hours for a poster. Just a bunch of spoiled complaining fans.
    Do u folks like anything? Comatose, JB, inside job, help help.....your right, they all sound the same, no growth at all.


    Brendon obrien wasn't frustrated with their effort. Can you read and understand? You just lied and are clueless.
  • Dr. DelightDr. Delight Posts: 10,521
    More true fans stating their opinions. Go buy a t shirt or better
    Yet stand in line for 5 hours for a poster. Just a bunch of spoiled complaining fans.
    Do u folks like anything? Comatose, JB, inside job, help help.....your right, they all sound the same, no growth at all.
    So, fans with an opinion that differs from your own are not true fans?

    I would never stand in a line for 4-5 hours for a t-shirt, sticker, plastic cup. I'm not a fan?
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 9,391
    edited August 2013
    More true fans stating their opinions. Go buy a t shirt or better
    Yet stand in line for 5 hours for a poster. Just a bunch of spoiled complaining fans.
    Do u folks like anything? Comatose, JB, inside job, help help.....your right, they all sound the same, no growth at all.


    Brendon obrien wasn't frustrated with their effort. Can you read and understand? You just lied and are clueless.

    The first part of the interview I got that feeling and then he finally said he wasn't happy that they took a year break after making the first 6 or so songs. Kinda confirmed my thought. I could be wrong. It is just speculation.

    Don't get upset. It is a message board. We can have opinions. There are plenty of us that feel that they have become predictable and there are plenty that don't. It isn't like just one person has these opinions.

    Look at this way: There were probably a ton of U2 fans who would have loved All that You Can't Leave Behind right after The Joshua Tree. But U2 took a different path and released Auchtung Baby, Zooropa and Pop. Not as many dug the latter two albums, but there were fans that did (me) and we are happy that U2 took some risks. After the risks they came back to their bread and butter sound and released two great records.

    Hope the new album surprises me, that's all! Does anyone want this band to be like the Stones the last thirty years? Is anyone begging for new Rolling Stones music?
    Post edited by bootlegger10 on
  • I was being sarcastic. But the post on here are just always critical and it's about every little fucking thing.
    This isn't a fan board, it's a place to just bitch about songs, artwork, t shirt design, set lists, eds hair, tickets, venues,
    Matt Cameron and whatever else people can muster up. Go start ur own website dedicated to bitching about pj. I've had enough. Just my opinion though.
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 9,391
    I was being sarcastic. But the post on here are just always critical and it's about every little fucking thing.
    This isn't a fan board, it's a place to just bitch about songs, artwork, t shirt design, set lists, eds hair, tickets, venues,
    Matt Cameron and whatever else people can muster up. Go start ur own website dedicated to bitching about pj. I've had enough. Just my opinion though.

    I limit my critiques to the music and touring schedules. At least they are the most important two! I think the site would be extremely boring if there wasn't room for honest debate from true fans (we are all true fans but have different expectations that we are free to discuss).

    PJ makes a ton of money selling merchandise. We should be allowed to talk about it because they are more than happy to sell it to us.
  • I disagree.
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPROPosts: 133,596
    and this conversation about true fans,bigger fans is really stupid...
    you are a fan of something,or you are not a fan...end of story..
    and if you dont like a song or something the band doing,doesnt make you less of a fan...

    for me the issue is what people expecting??
    pj to save the world??to start a revolution?to feed the people who starving?
    to take the money from the rich and give it the poor???

    its a rock band..playing music,they are working at music intustry,they are artist,create music,.give shows,selling their music,like every band in the world..
    for sure are charismatic,they have their way to express them self,give a different meaning in thing..inspire us as fans as human beings....im a fan,i love them to death.
    but the same time,i know ,tomorrow i need to get up at 5:30 am to go to work for get paid and buy some food to have on my table..pj cant help me with that..
    inspire me,?makes me feel good?.happy??.put music and words to what i have in my mind?..express my feeling?
    yes they can do that..they doing it 22 years now..and really thank them for that..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 9,391
    A lot of us older PJ fans were also taught very early by Pearl Jam that music is supposed to be serious and impactful. PJ ripped on pop bands, PJ ripped on sponsors, PJ ripped on artists selling their music for commercials, etc.... It was about the music. About the music. So when we start to hear more pop influence in the music and how the record was made very quickly resulting in 30 minutes of music our response is "what?".

    I think a lot of the "complaining" is born out of the stands that Pearl Jam took early on. For example, fast forward from "Sponsored by No One" tour in the mid-nineties to playing the Oracle private party in 2012. If fans on this board complain about playing the Oracle show they are labeled as bitching when it is Pearl Jam's views early on that they were very vocal about that made the fans feel the way they did about the importance of the music.

    It is like Pearl Jam consistently told you for 15 years that blue is good and red is bad. Then in year 16 they release red and people aren't allowed to complain that they released red.
  • TheGossmanTheGossman Posts: 1,104
    A lot of us older PJ fans were also taught very early by Pearl Jam that music is supposed to be serious and impactful. PJ ripped on pop bands, PJ ripped on sponsors, PJ ripped on artists selling their music for commercials, etc.... It was about the music. About the music. So when we start to hear more pop influence in the music and how the record was made very quickly resulting in 30 minutes of music our response is "what?".

    I think a lot of the "complaining" is born out of the stands that Pearl Jam took early on. For example, fast forward from "Sponsored by No One" tour in the mid-nineties to playing the Oracle private party in 2012. If fans on this board complain about playing the Oracle show they are labeled as bitching when it is Pearl Jam's views early on that they were very vocal about that made the fans feel the way they did about the importance of the music.

    It is like Pearl Jam consistently told you for 15 years that blue is good and red is bad. Then in year 16 they release red and people aren't allowed to complain that they released red.


    agreed
    9/4/98, 8/4/00, 12/8/02, 12/9/02, 4/15/03, 4/16/03, 4/19/03, 4/25/03, 4/26/03, 4/28/03, 4/29/03, 4/30/03, 7/8/03, 7/9/03, 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/6/04, 9/1/05, 9/2/05, 5/16/06, 5/17/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 8/5/07, 6/11/08, 6/12/08, 6/14/08, 6/16/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08
  • AzWickerAzWicker Posts: 1,162
    edited August 2013
    after 20 years, you are who you are.
    Post edited by AzWicker on
    Ed: 2011-07-09 2012-11-04
    PJ: 2011-09-03 2011-09-04
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPROPosts: 133,596
    A lot of us older PJ fans were also taught very early by Pearl Jam that music is supposed to be serious and impactful. PJ ripped on pop bands, PJ ripped on sponsors, PJ ripped on artists selling their music for commercials, etc.... It was about the music. About the music. So when we start to hear more pop influence in the music and how the record was made very quickly resulting in 30 minutes of music our response is "what?".

    I think a lot of the "complaining" is born out of the stands that Pearl Jam took early on. For example, fast forward from "Sponsored by No One" tour in the mid-nineties to playing the Oracle private party in 2012. If fans on this board complain about playing the Oracle show they are labeled as bitching when it is Pearl Jam's views early on that they were very vocal about that made the fans feel the way they did about the importance of the music.

    It is like Pearl Jam consistently told you for 15 years that blue is good and red is bad. Then in year 16 they release red and people aren't allowed to complain that they released red.
    i really try to understand that...
    at 1992--94-98..pj was get paid of what they did..as they do now..
    they was selling t-shirt-posters,they sell records..just they do now..i dont see any difference..
    they did charity..they still do it today..
    its their job..proffecional musicians..red or blue...its their job,and get paid for that..and they deserve it
    they was getting paid when they told you that blue is good and red is bad ..and get paid when they say red is good now..
    for me matters what YOU thing is good.,.Blue?red...or Green...

    and something last...is strange some people think that all things changing around us but expect pj to stay the same like was at 91..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 5,716
    I'm not in a band, but I play guitar, and what I play tends to fall in a certain type of sound. I would imagine the same would happen when you get five guys together. It's partly why they have solo projects. When the band writes a song, they want it to be a "Pearl Jam" song, as I think every band asks is this a "_______" song? There's a difference between experimental and sounding fresh. Most of the experimental stuff happened in the late 60's with rock music. Right now, if a rock band attempts to be experimental, they probably wont fall into the rock genre anymore. Solo artists tend to cross genres more often e.g. Neil Young and Ben Harper, but they still sound like Neil and Ben. Artists tend to have a consistency in their work, whatever the medium. For me, PJ always sounds relevant and the new stuff is exciting to hear.
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