Should Pearl Jam Play in Israel?

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  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,279
    wow...that's news to me. unbelievable. interesting read
    “I used to spend a lot of time in this room...back when it was a shit hole and I was a shit head.”
    big·otˈbiɡət/ noun: a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.
    big·ot·ryˈbiɡətrē/ noun: intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 5,979
    JC29856 said:
    wow...that's news to me. unbelievable. interesting read
    You posted a link to a story about it in this thread two days ago
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 5,979
    edited July 2017
    Maybe AIPAC wrote the bill and the 'author' didn't even read it?

    criminal penalties aren't noted in the bill...it references a statute that contains them (so they are there, but somewhat hidden...so well that the author doesn't seem to know about them).  BDS is taking the position that it does not target individuals...they're worried the coverage suggesting it does will scare ppl away from BDS.  The ACLU says it violates the first amendement.  Does anyone think criminal charges would hold up in the courts?  What a colossal waste of money....just a marketing campaign for AIPAC, with bipartisan support.
    I'd love to see a breakdown of 'expert guests' - pro and con BDS, on mainstream networks while this is story is covered.
    Post edited by Drowned Out on
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 12,888
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  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 5,979
    These poor, poor victims.   Nick Cave, thank you for making a principaled stance on behalf of all those tens of bullied musicians, whom for at least a month or two in their difficult, globe trotting lives, must endure words. Critical ones!  From a peer, no less.  All in exchange for what I’m sure is peanuts from Israeli promoters.
    I mean...it takes such bravery to not only ignore the points BDS makes, but to victim blame....in a time that victim blaming is so passé.  That, my friends, is courage personified.
    Like...Just right...

  • Latest tweet from President Trump folks. His Tweet is in bold.

    Pearl Jam won’t play Israel! Sad! Boycott Pearl Jam! No US tour until Eddy Veddar meets Bibi! USA!



    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 11,855
    No.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 11,855
    edited November 2017
    Latest tweet from President Trump folks. His Tweet is in bold.

    Pearl Jam won’t play Israel! Sad! Boycott Pearl Jam! No US tour until Eddy Veddar meets Bibi! USA!



    FAKE TWEET REMOVED
    Post edited by Thoughts_Arrive on
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • Latest tweet from President Trump folks. His Tweet is in bold.

    Pearl Jam won’t play Israel! Sad! Boycott Pearl Jam! No US tour until Eddy Veddar meets Bibi! USA!




    Fake news. Sad!
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • Latest tweet from President Trump folks. His Tweet is in bold.

    Pearl Jam won’t play Israel! Sad! Boycott Pearl Jam! No US tour until Eddy Veddar meets Bibi! USA!




    Was that the 5th or 6th lie of the day from Trump?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 3,778
    Latest tweet from President Trump folks. His Tweet is in bold.

    Pearl Jam won’t play Israel! Sad! Boycott Pearl Jam! No US tour until Eddy Veddar meets Bibi! USA!




    You should probably remove that fake tweet before Kat or Sea do it. Several have been warned for that.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 11,855
    tbergs said:
    Latest tweet from President Trump folks. His Tweet is in bold.

    Pearl Jam won’t play Israel! Sad! Boycott Pearl Jam! No US tour until Eddy Veddar meets Bibi! USA!




    You should probably remove that fake tweet before Kat or Sea do it. Several have been warned for that.
    Are you serious?
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 39,953
    tbergs said:
    Latest tweet from President Trump folks. His Tweet is in bold.

    Pearl Jam won’t play Israel! Sad! Boycott Pearl Jam! No US tour until Eddy Veddar meets Bibi! USA!




    You should probably remove that fake tweet before Kat or Sea do it. Several have been warned for that.
    Are you serious?
    He is. It's true. No fake tweets allowed, because some people don't know they're fake, especially those who might see it out of context (these boards are available to the general public). Kat doesn't want fake news starting here. I think that's fair.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 11,855
    REMOVED.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 10,148
    These poor, poor victims.   Nick Cave, thank you for making a principaled stance on behalf of all those tens of bullied musicians, whom for at least a month or two in their difficult, globe trotting lives, must endure words. Critical ones!  From a peer, no less.  All in exchange for what I’m sure is peanuts from Israeli promoters.
    I mean...it takes such bravery to not only ignore the points BDS makes, but to victim blame....in a time that victim blaming is so passé.  That, my friends, is courage personified.
    Like...Just right...

    Nick Cave is right.  He wants to play his music to his fans wherever they may live.  Roger Waters believes that there is a political test in where you play.  That is his prerogative and he should feel free to announce to the world why he is not playing Israel, and encourage other bands/musicians to do the same.  But he shouldn't bully people, and if you are fine with that, you should be fine with Nick Cave's response to then. 

    I guess Roger doesn't believe in the power of music to effect change.  His loss.  Why anyone would want to see him perform Pink Floyd songs without the rest of the band escapes me.   "Hey, do you want to go see the second best voice from Pink Floyd without the legendary guitarist either?"  "Ummm, no."

  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 5,979
    edited November 2017
    Waters believes there is a political test in where you play?  Never heard that.
    He supports a peaceful protest movement, for an oppressed people.  
    Everyone knows that anything to do with Israel is political.  No way around it.  Nick Cave accepted that but ignored the politics.  Did he make a speech about healing thru music?  reconciliation or peace or human rights?  Maybe I missed that.  I thought he admitted to booking the show out of spite...picked a fight with Waters then cried about being bullied by a 70 year old :lol:  the micro and the macro, eh?  Typical tactic of Israel in politics and war, throughout the nation’s history: be the aggressor but play victim.

    If Waters bullies people, then you and I are bullying each other right now.  I guess Cave doesn’t believe in the power of civil discourse in effecting change, since he isn’t addressing BDS, he is addressing his own feelings of victimization.

    I’d be surprised if it isn’t in this thread already...you might not want to read it, but this is a great article on Waters playing Israel and trying to use music effect change:
    https://www.haaretz.com/news/1.668705
    “The gig was fantastic. But – and it’s a big ‘but’ – at the end, I made a short political speech, and suddenly it was as if I was from Mars when I suggested this was the generation of young Israelis that should make peace with their neighbors. They went very, very quiet. Afterward, I thought about the implications of travel restrictions and realized it was pretty unlikely that there were any Palestinians or Arabs in the audience, and I felt really bad about that.”

    Did you feel all the love directed at you?

    “Yes, it was fantastic, I could feel it. Maybe I shouldn’t tell you this story, but I will. When I visited Jenin [in 2009], I met Ismail, the father whose son was at the center of the movie ‘The Heart of Jenin,’ about the Palestinian boy who was shot…”

    And his organs were donated to Israelis.

    “And they donated his organs, so it was very emotional. And then they said to me in Jerusalem, ‘Will you come and talk to the students at the film school?’ And I thought: What a great opportunity.

    “So I turn up one day, and everyone’s all bubbling and there’s a room with about 150 young people and all their teachers standing around, and it couldn’t have been more welcoming. I thanked them for having me and asked what we should talk about. And they were silent, so I said, ‘Alright, I’ll tell you what we should talk about. How many of you have seen the documentary ‘Heart of Jenin’? And they might just as well have had stainless-steel shutters behind their eyelids.

    “I started to talk about it, but it was like I had turned into a Martian or something. Suddenly, you could see the distaste and horror that I would be mentioning this. And I got quite angry. I didn’t shout at them but I said: ‘There is something wrong with this picture.’ So as wonderful and as full of love as playing to that audience of young people was, this was horrific.”


    —————

    Q:  what was the most concrete example of music effecting change?
    A:  the cultural boycott of apartheid South Africa.  


    I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that it would escape you why anyone would want to see the main creative force behind one of the biggest rock bands ever, live.  Take a side in the floyd tiff, sure...but saying he’s not worth seeing live is a laughably transparent example of butt hurt.





    Post edited by Drowned Out on
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 18,189
    It will never happen !
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 16,834
    racists 
  • BS44325 said:
    You're still here!

    You haven't been in the Trump thread telling everybody how awesome Trump is recently. I thought you had vacated. Hey... he's taking a beating recently. We need you in there to counterbalance the discussion.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • These poor, poor victims.   Nick Cave, thank you for making a principaled stance on behalf of all those tens of bullied musicians, whom for at least a month or two in their difficult, globe trotting lives, must endure words. Critical ones!  From a peer, no less.  All in exchange for what I’m sure is peanuts from Israeli promoters.
    I mean...it takes such bravery to not only ignore the points BDS makes, but to victim blame....in a time that victim blaming is so passé.  That, my friends, is courage personified.
    Like...Just right...

    Nick Cave is right.  He wants to play his music to his fans wherever they may live.  Roger Waters believes that there is a political test in where you play.  That is his prerogative and he should feel free to announce to the world why he is not playing Israel, and encourage other bands/musicians to do the same.  But he shouldn't bully people, and if you are fine with that, you should be fine with Nick Cave's response to then. 

    I guess Roger doesn't believe in the power of music to effect change.  His loss.  Why anyone would want to see him perform Pink Floyd songs without the rest of the band escapes me.   "Hey, do you want to go see the second best voice from Pink Floyd without the legendary guitarist either?"  "Ummm, no."


    Ummm. Yes. His shows are awesome.

    Nick Cave? Terrible. Who cares what he has to say about Roger Waters. Comparing the two is like comparing the Patriots and the Browns organizations. He's small time. A pee wee.

    Go ahead... play Israel. Play wherever else they are desperate for music and will pay such a small timer too. Nobody cares. Have you ever heard any buzz like this, "Holy shit. Nick Cave is going on tour. We have to go! Tickets are going to be impossible to get." 
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • RideRickRideRick HoornPosts: 590
    edited November 2017

    Axl did it
    Madonna did it
    Cliff Richard did it
    Radiohead did it
    Aerosmith did it.

    Pearl Jam should do it. 


    Post edited by RideRick on
    | Pinkpop 1992 | Rotterdam 1993 | Amsterdam 1996 | Pinkpop 2000 | Arnhem 2006 | Nijmegen 2007 | Rotterdam 2009 | Nijmegen 2010 | Amsterdam I + II 2012 | Amsterdam Eddie Vedder Solo 2012 First European Concert | Amsterdam I + II 2014 | Amsterdam Eddie Vedder Solo 2016 night I
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 3,778
    Maybe we should just rephrase the thread title question to; Should Israel play Pearl Jam?
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 10,148
    These poor, poor victims.   Nick Cave, thank you for making a principaled stance on behalf of all those tens of bullied musicians, whom for at least a month or two in their difficult, globe trotting lives, must endure words. Critical ones!  From a peer, no less.  All in exchange for what I’m sure is peanuts from Israeli promoters.
    I mean...it takes such bravery to not only ignore the points BDS makes, but to victim blame....in a time that victim blaming is so passé.  That, my friends, is courage personified.
    Like...Just right...

    Nick Cave is right.  He wants to play his music to his fans wherever they may live.  Roger Waters believes that there is a political test in where you play.  That is his prerogative and he should feel free to announce to the world why he is not playing Israel, and encourage other bands/musicians to do the same.  But he shouldn't bully people, and if you are fine with that, you should be fine with Nick Cave's response to then. 

    I guess Roger doesn't believe in the power of music to effect change.  His loss.  Why anyone would want to see him perform Pink Floyd songs without the rest of the band escapes me.   "Hey, do you want to go see the second best voice from Pink Floyd without the legendary guitarist either?"  "Ummm, no."


    Ummm. Yes. His shows are awesome.

    Nick Cave? Terrible. Who cares what he has to say about Roger Waters. Comparing the two is like comparing the Patriots and the Browns organizations. He's small time. A pee wee.

    Go ahead... play Israel. Play wherever else they are desperate for music and will pay such a small timer too. Nobody cares. Have you ever heard any buzz like this, "Holy shit. Nick Cave is going on tour. We have to go! Tickets are going to be impossible to get." 
    Apparently he is so small time that Waters group sent him an open letter not to play Israel.  

    No one can deny Waters’ talent and creativity, but the 70’s was a long time ago and I would rather see someone who still releases quality music throughout their career.  Tom Petty was a good example of that.   Bruce Springsteen too.  I think Nick Cave is an amazing artist and performer.  I really enjoy his movie score work as well.  I really respect Trent Reznor and the work he does on movie scores.  These artists that are passionate about their craft and continually changing.  Releasing 4 albums in 30 years and touring off your music in the 70’s doesn’t really appeal to me.
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 10,148
    And I am guessing when everyone else in the band takes sides against you, then you are probably the asshole.
  • dignindignin Posts: 5,954
    tbergs said:
    Maybe we should just rephrase the thread title question to; Should Israel play Pearl Jam?
    Isn't that about the gist of it.

    As a side note, I saw Nick Cave a few years ago, great sold out show. But I disagree with him here.
  • And I am guessing when everyone else in the band takes sides against you, then you are probably the asshole.
    Roger admitted to his cantankerous nature back in the day. He was the asshole for sure. A melancholy man at best.

    But let's be fair... he was an exceptional writer and visionary. The Wall- which is his opus- is the greatest concept album ever made. With all due respect... by far in my mind.

    Again... Cave calling Waters out is like the Browns telling the Pats how to win.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 18,189
    RideRick said:

    Axl did it
    Madonna did it
    Cliff Richard did it
    Radiohead did it
    Aerosmith did it.

    Pearl Jam should do it. 


    No they shouldnt unless they play for the palestinian fans too otherwise i hope they never set foot in that part of the world ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
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