PHILADELPHIA EAGLES.

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  • The JugglerThe Juggler To your left.Posts: 28,518
    Sproles out for the season
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 8,204
    Sproles out for the season
    that sucks. probably end of his career too.  that's a shame if it ends this way. 
  • JK_LivinJK_Livin South JerseyPosts: 6,040
    I saw he knee give out before he was kicked and that it was a knee but he walked off the field just holding his arm awkwardly. Tough dude. Time for the young bucks.
    Alright, alright, alright!
    Tom O.
    "I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
    -The Writer
  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 10,419
    I would hope with Pumphrey on IR with his "injury" that he takes the time to come back next season with at least 25 pounds put on his body.
  • eeriepadaveeeriepadave West Chester, PAPosts: 26,683
    Sproles out for the season
    shit well that sucks
    bf959b1f-9b77-457c-baf8-038776f33339_zps8a6a389d.jpg?t=1365722973
    8/28/98- Camden, NJ
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  • cutzcutz Posts: 6,547
    Sproles out for the season
    shit well that sucks
    Man, that does suck for Sproles.  Not the way he wanted to end his career. Unless, he decides to play again?
  • cutzcutz Posts: 6,547
    pjhawks said:
    really good win. 2-0 in division and conference is huge.  this team has some toughness to it. they battle even when guys get knocked out with injuries.

    the NFL pass catch rules are insane.  If you can take 3 steps in the end zone after catching it and not be a touchdown the rules are fucked up.  that Giants pass has to be a TD.  just awful.

    I normally like Pederson's aggressiveness on 4th downs but that one at the end of the 1st half yesterday was one of the dumbest in game moves by an Eagles coach in a long time. 4th and 8th where you weren't exactly lighting the lamp offensively with a banged up secondary against a 2 time Super Bowl MVP QB you have to punt there and pin them deep.  

    Great kick by Elliott but he still stinks.  2 misses in 2 games after only going 3-6 in pre-season.  For sure there is a chance he improves with NFL coaching but so far not impressed.


    I agree: that should be a TD.  

    How come a RB can run and break the plane of goal line/pylon in a split second, and  doesn't control the ball after, but it's STILL a TD?
  • The JugglerThe Juggler To your left.Posts: 28,518
    edited September 26
    Here's an example of the kind of stuff you get from the Philly Athletic site. Impressed with it so far. Could have more content up but I guess they are still filling out their roster...


    Anyway---this explains this team's philosophy when it comes to 4th downs now. Make's Doug's "decision" a little more understandable after reading this. But from what I see it doesn't take into account flow of the game or anything. And this also reminded me of Kotite blaming a bad call he made on his "chart" 25 years ago.  Anyway, yeah, I still would've punted.....

    According to model, Pederson's 4th-and-8 call a true coin flip


    In an alternate universe in which Jake Elliott's 61-yard field goal had faded a little further right, sending Sunday's game into an overtime won by the New York Giants, the talk of the city would be Doug Pederson's decision to go for it on 4th and 8 in the second quarter. No matter that the Eagles defense ended up barely preventing the Giants from taking advantage of the field position with a goal-line stop on the ensuing drive, or that there was a full second half to play.

    Even in this universe, there's plenty of focus on Pederson's aggressive decision already, so we once again got in touch with Facebook data scientist Sean Taylor to crunch the numbers. Taylor, a die-hard Eagles fan himself and thus highly invested in the results, has tweaked the original code for the New York Times' 4th-down bot.

    The Situation: 

    Up 7-0 and coming off a touchdown on their previous drive, the Eagles faced a 4th and 8 from the Giants' 43-yard-line with 2:36 left in the second quarter.

    The Decision: 

    Pederson leaves his offense on the field to try to pick up the first down. The Giants, thrown off by the abnormal decision, call timeout. Pederson again sends the offense onto the field. Carson Wentz is sacked, the Giants take over on their own 49-yard-line, and drive all the way down to the Eagles' 1-yard-line before failing to score. The Eagles remain up 7-0 at halftime.

    The Odds: 

    According to the model, which takes the spread of the game into account (the Eagles were favored by six points), the Eagles had an 80 percent chance to win before making this 4th-down decision. Knowing what we know now, the Eagles could have instead attempted a 60-yard field goal with Philadelphia's new favorite son. But in reality, the choices were to go for it or punt.

    1. Punt — According to the model, a punt in this situation drops the Eagles' odds of winning from 80 percent to 78 percent.
    2. Go for it — Converting the first down improves the Eagles' odds of winning from 80 percent to 85 percent. Failing to convert drops their odds of winning to only 73 percent.

    The key, then, is how likely you believe the chances are of converting the 4th and 8. On Monday, pressed with a question that referenced an 18 percent success rate, Pederson said the Eagles' analytics department had the odds of converting at 33 percent.

    “It's a basically a half percentage point actually in our favor, and it comes down to basically a 50/50,” said Pederson. “Where we were on the field comes down to my decision, so it was my decision ultimately.”

    The 4th-down Bot actually has the odds even higher at 38 percent.

    The Verdict: 

    According to the model, the Eagles' odds of winning if they choose to go for it are 77.56 percent (38 percent success rate * 85 percent win probability + 62 percent likelihood of failure * 73 percent win probability). Compared to the 78 percent chance of winning if they punt the ball, it makes the decision a true toss-up. The discrepancy in the chances of converting on 4th and 8 could weigh the decision to favor punting, but that's hard to say without knowing what else the Eagles' model takes into account and how those other variables are weighted.

    And if Pederson was confident in a particular play in that scenario, you can see why he would make the decision he did. As Brian Baldinger broke it down on Twitter, the real goat of the decision was Carson Wentz, who took an indefensible sack.

    Frankly, the best sign for Eagles fans is that Pederson's decision wasn't made in a vacuum. Though this particular decision was a toss-up, Pederson made the right call on three other close calls Sunday.

    1. Facing 4th and 1 on their own 47-yard-line at the end of the first quarter in a 0-0 game, the Eagles converted on a Wentz sneak, eventually leading to their first touchdown of the game. The 4th-down bot ever-so-slightly favored going for it as the right decision, with a 70.2 percent win probability going for it to 70 percent punting (this doesn't take into account the difference between 1-yard to go and inches to go, which would increase the win probability of going for it).
    2. Facing 4th and 5 from the Giants' 34, up 7-0 with 9:25 left in the 3rd quarter, the Eagles attempted a 52-yard field goal, which Elliott missed. Again, this was ever-so-slightly the right decision according to the model, which produces an 85.8 percent win probability if going for it, an 84 percent win probability for punting and an 87.5 percent win probability in kicking the field goal.
    3. Facing 4th and 1 from the Giants' 45, up 7-0 with 6:37 left in the 3rd quarter, the Eagles again successfully converted a Wentz sneak and again scored a touchdown on that drive. Here, the decision to go for it produced an 85.9 percent win probability compared to 84 percent if the team punted.

    These were all difficult decisions, and we already know the Eagles won't always be successful when being aggressive. But Pederson's willingness to make the right calls on the margins is perhaps his greatest strength as a head coach.

    Post edited by The Juggler on
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 10,419
    edited September 26
    The dumb part of going for it on 4th & 8 in the middle of the field - other than, well, ya know, going for it - was Wentz taking the sack. Chuck the ball downfield even if you see nobody open.

    I'm letting Carson get the time to keep developing, but I hope he gets the same treatment McNabb (Who am I kidding? That'll never happen) does once he starts making the same mistakes consistently. Because there's enough that I've seen from him that it's planting a  little seed in my head of a little, "fuck this guy." Just a little though.
    Post edited by Jearlpam0925 on
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 8,204
    Here's an example of the kind of stuff you get from the Philly Athletic site. Impressed with it so far. Could have more content up but I guess they are still filling out their roster...


    Anyway---this explains this team's philosophy when it comes to 4th downs now. Make's Doug's "decision" a little more understandable after reading this. But from what I see it doesn't take into account flow of the game or anything. And this also reminded me of Kotite blaming a bad call he made on his "chart" 25 years ago.  Anyway, yeah, I still would've punted.....

    According to model, Pederson's 4th-and-8 call a true coin flip


    In an alternate universe in which Jake Elliott's 61-yard field goal had faded a little further right, sending Sunday's game into an overtime won by the New York Giants, the talk of the city would be Doug Pederson's decision to go for it on 4th and 8 in the second quarter. No matter that the Eagles defense ended up barely preventing the Giants from taking advantage of the field position with a goal-line stop on the ensuing drive, or that there was a full second half to play.

    Even in this universe, there's plenty of focus on Pederson's aggressive decision already, so we once again got in touch with Facebook data scientist Sean Taylor to crunch the numbers. Taylor, a die-hard Eagles fan himself and thus highly invested in the results, has tweaked the original code for the New York Times' 4th-down bot.

    The Situation: 

    Up 7-0 and coming off a touchdown on their previous drive, the Eagles faced a 4th and 8 from the Giants' 43-yard-line with 2:36 left in the second quarter.

    The Decision: 

    Pederson leaves his offense on the field to try to pick up the first down. The Giants, thrown off by the abnormal decision, call timeout. Pederson again sends the offense onto the field. Carson Wentz is sacked, the Giants take over on their own 49-yard-line, and drive all the way down to the Eagles' 1-yard-line before failing to score. The Eagles remain up 7-0 at halftime.

    The Odds: 

    According to the model, which takes the spread of the game into account (the Eagles were favored by six points), the Eagles had an 80 percent chance to win before making this 4th-down decision. Knowing what we know now, the Eagles could have instead attempted a 60-yard field goal with Philadelphia's new favorite son. But in reality, the choices were to go for it or punt.

    1. Punt — According to the model, a punt in this situation drops the Eagles' odds of winning from 80 percent to 78 percent.
    2. Go for it — Converting the first down improves the Eagles' odds of winning from 80 percent to 85 percent. Failing to convert drops their odds of winning to only 73 percent.

    The key, then, is how likely you believe the chances are of converting the 4th and 8. On Monday, pressed with a question that referenced an 18 percent success rate, Pederson said the Eagles' analytics department had the odds of converting at 33 percent.

    “It's a basically a half percentage point actually in our favor, and it comes down to basically a 50/50,” said Pederson. “Where we were on the field comes down to my decision, so it was my decision ultimately.”

    The 4th-down Bot actually has the odds even higher at 38 percent.

    The Verdict: 

    According to the model, the Eagles' odds of winning if they choose to go for it are 77.56 percent (38 percent success rate * 85 percent win probability + 62 percent likelihood of failure * 73 percent win probability). Compared to the 78 percent chance of winning if they punt the ball, it makes the decision a true toss-up. The discrepancy in the chances of converting on 4th and 8 could weigh the decision to favor punting, but that's hard to say without knowing what else the Eagles' model takes into account and how those other variables are weighted.

    And if Pederson was confident in a particular play in that scenario, you can see why he would make the decision he did. As Brian Baldinger broke it down on Twitter, the real goat of the decision was Carson Wentz, who took an indefensible sack.

    Frankly, the best sign for Eagles fans is that Pederson's decision wasn't made in a vacuum. Though this particular decision was a toss-up, Pederson made the right call on three other close calls Sunday.

    1. Facing 4th and 1 on their own 47-yard-line at the end of the first quarter in a 0-0 game, the Eagles converted on a Wentz sneak, eventually leading to their first touchdown of the game. The 4th-down bot ever-so-slightly favored going for it as the right decision, with a 70.2 percent win probability going for it to 70 percent punting (this doesn't take into account the difference between 1-yard to go and inches to go, which would increase the win probability of going for it).
    2. Facing 4th and 5 from the Giants' 34, up 7-0 with 9:25 left in the 3rd quarter, the Eagles attempted a 52-yard field goal, which Elliott missed. Again, this was ever-so-slightly the right decision according to the model, which produces an 85.8 percent win probability if going for it, an 84 percent win probability for punting and an 87.5 percent win probability in kicking the field goal.
    3. Facing 4th and 1 from the Giants' 45, up 7-0 with 6:37 left in the 3rd quarter, the Eagles again successfully converted a Wentz sneak and again scored a touchdown on that drive. Here, the decision to go for it produced an 85.9 percent win probability compared to 84 percent if the team punted.

    These were all difficult decisions, and we already know the Eagles won't always be successful when being aggressive. But Pederson's willingness to make the right calls on the margins is perhaps his greatest strength as a head coach.

    interesting stuff. I know HBO Real Sports did a story a few years ago where they had statisticians talking about how NFL teams don't go for it enough on 4th down which I agree with. too many teams punt on 4th and shorts.   as you stated doesn't take into account flow of the game and in this case, with how the offense was playing at that time, i thought it was a really bad decision to go on 4th and 8.  For that time and place maybe 4th and 4 i could see but not 4th and 8.

  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 24,197
    The dumb part of going for it on 4th & 8 in the middle of the field - other than, well, ya know, going for it - was Wentz taking the sack. Chuck the ball downfield even if you see nobody open.

    I'm letting Carson get the time to keep developing, but I hope he gets the same treatment McNabb (Who am I kidding? That'll never happen) does once he starts making the same mistakes consistently. Because there's enough that I've seen from him that it's planting a  little seed in my head of a little, "fuck this guy." Just a little though.
    If Wentz has McNabb's career, he gets a statue outside the Linc.
  • The JugglerThe Juggler To your left.Posts: 28,518
    The dumb part of going for it on 4th & 8 in the middle of the field - other than, well, ya know, going for it - was Wentz taking the sack. Chuck the ball downfield even if you see nobody open.

    I'm letting Carson get the time to keep developing, but I hope he gets the same treatment McNabb (Who am I kidding? That'll never happen) does once he starts making the same mistakes consistently. Because there's enough that I've seen from him that it's planting a  little seed in my head of a little, "fuck this guy." Just a little though.
    If Wentz has McNabb's career, he gets a statue outside the Linc.
    Agreed
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 10,419
    The dumb part of going for it on 4th & 8 in the middle of the field - other than, well, ya know, going for it - was Wentz taking the sack. Chuck the ball downfield even if you see nobody open.

    I'm letting Carson get the time to keep developing, but I hope he gets the same treatment McNabb (Who am I kidding? That'll never happen) does once he starts making the same mistakes consistently. Because there's enough that I've seen from him that it's planting a  little seed in my head of a little, "fuck this guy." Just a little though.
    If Wentz has McNabb's career, he gets a statue outside the Linc.
    Absolutely.
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 8,204
    The dumb part of going for it on 4th & 8 in the middle of the field - other than, well, ya know, going for it - was Wentz taking the sack. Chuck the ball downfield even if you see nobody open.

    I'm letting Carson get the time to keep developing, but I hope he gets the same treatment McNabb (Who am I kidding? That'll never happen) does once he starts making the same mistakes consistently. Because there's enough that I've seen from him that it's planting a  little seed in my head of a little, "fuck this guy." Just a little though.
    If Wentz has McNabb's career, he gets a statue outside the Linc.
    Agreed
    if Pederson and Wentz go to four straight NFC Championship games and 5 in 8 years will it be a good idea to run them out of town too?
  • The JugglerThe Juggler To your left.Posts: 28,518
    pjhawks said:
    The dumb part of going for it on 4th & 8 in the middle of the field - other than, well, ya know, going for it - was Wentz taking the sack. Chuck the ball downfield even if you see nobody open.

    I'm letting Carson get the time to keep developing, but I hope he gets the same treatment McNabb (Who am I kidding? That'll never happen) does once he starts making the same mistakes consistently. Because there's enough that I've seen from him that it's planting a  little seed in my head of a little, "fuck this guy." Just a little though.
    If Wentz has McNabb's career, he gets a statue outside the Linc.
    Agreed
    if Pederson and Wentz go to four straight NFC Championship games and 5 in 8 years will it be a good idea to run them out of town too?
    When was the last time a point didn't sail over your head, Takes? Jesus....
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 10,419
    pjhawks said:
    The dumb part of going for it on 4th & 8 in the middle of the field - other than, well, ya know, going for it - was Wentz taking the sack. Chuck the ball downfield even if you see nobody open.

    I'm letting Carson get the time to keep developing, but I hope he gets the same treatment McNabb (Who am I kidding? That'll never happen) does once he starts making the same mistakes consistently. Because there's enough that I've seen from him that it's planting a  little seed in my head of a little, "fuck this guy." Just a little though.
    If Wentz has McNabb's career, he gets a statue outside the Linc.
    Agreed
    if Pederson and Wentz go to four straight NFC Championship games and 5 in 8 years will it be a good idea to run them out of town too?
    When was the last time a point didn't sail over your head, Takes? Jesus....
    God damn this is good.
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 8,204
    pjhawks said:
    The dumb part of going for it on 4th & 8 in the middle of the field - other than, well, ya know, going for it - was Wentz taking the sack. Chuck the ball downfield even if you see nobody open.

    I'm letting Carson get the time to keep developing, but I hope he gets the same treatment McNabb (Who am I kidding? That'll never happen) does once he starts making the same mistakes consistently. Because there's enough that I've seen from him that it's planting a  little seed in my head of a little, "fuck this guy." Just a little though.
    If Wentz has McNabb's career, he gets a statue outside the Linc.
    Agreed
    if Pederson and Wentz go to four straight NFC Championship games and 5 in 8 years will it be a good idea to run them out of town too?
    When was the last time a point didn't sail over your head, Takes? Jesus....
    ah when don't want to answer a simple question resort to name calling (a pretty lame name call too. come on you're fairly educated come up with something better than 'takes').  



  • The JugglerThe Juggler To your left.Posts: 28,518
    No Cox tomorrow. Gonna be a tough one.
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 8,204
    got a bad feeling about this game.  i think they get down early as Rivers lights them up and try to rally and Wentz gets beat up some.  Ill say chargers 29-17
  • eeriepadaveeeriepadave West Chester, PAPosts: 26,683
    pjhawks said:
    got a bad feeling about this game.  i think they get down early as Rivers lights them up and try to rally and Wentz gets beat up some.  Ill say chargers 29-17
    ummm care to retract your statement?  I think there are more Eagles fans there than Chargers :lol: Go Birds!
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  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 22,436
    juggler has mad copy and paste skills!
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
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  • The JugglerThe Juggler To your left.Posts: 28,518
    ^thank you!

    That was just fun to watch. Good things happen when you have a balanced attack. It's not always going to be that easy but you can tell how much more dominating the line can be sticking with that kind of game plan. It opened up play action and they were able to take a few shots deep. Chargers D was on their toes all day and ran out of gas in the fourth.

    Like what I'm seeing from Doug last couple weeks. Stick with it please.

    go birds
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 8,204
    pjhawks said:
    got a bad feeling about this game.  i think they get down early as Rivers lights them up and try to rally and Wentz gets beat up some.  Ill say chargers 29-17
    ummm care to retract your statement?  I think there are more Eagles fans there than Chargers :lol: Go Birds!
    sure, good to be wrong once or twice a year. keeps me humble.

    3-1 with 3 road games so far is a great start.  5 of next 7 at home.

    this teams is really gutting it out on defense without Cox and a banged up secondary I expected more big plays from the Chargers.

    first time in a long time i can remember the Eagles killing the clock with a long drive with running plays.  Chargers run defense was atrocious.   nice to play two of the three worst run defenses in the league the last two weeks but good to take advantage of it.  

    surprised Pederson didn't go for the 4th and 1 late in the 2nd Quarter.  Against that run defense I think you have to go there.

    Chargers have the best helmets in the league. love those especially when paired with the light blue jerseys.

    Does anyone not hate the Eagles fan with the face paint and wears the shoulder pads they show every game?  

    Time for Dick Stockton to retire.


  • JK_LivinJK_Livin South JerseyPosts: 6,040
    That shoulder pads guy is the worst.

    Roll that Blount baby. Less Torrey, more Mack or Marcus please.
    Alright, alright, alright!
    Tom O.
    "I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
    -The Writer
  • JK_LivinJK_Livin South JerseyPosts: 6,040
    Nice weekend in the NFCE!
    Alright, alright, alright!
    Tom O.
    "I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
    -The Writer
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 8,204
    JK_Livin said:
    Nice weekend in the NFCE!
    very nice weekend for the Birds.  Good game last night.  I wonder how much money was won/lost on the last play fumble touchdown that gave the Chiefs the cover and hit the over at the same time.  had to be a lot of pissed on gamblers on that play.
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 8,204
    http://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/the700level/colin-cowherd-philadelphia-dumbest-sports-city-america

    love the Eagles response to this even if technically on Reid and Wright he is correct.  Francona wasn't run out of town as much as his teams totally sucked here.
  • JK_LivinJK_Livin South JerseyPosts: 6,040
    Andy ran himself out, period. Can't speak on Wright and Francona was garbage here.
    Alright, alright, alright!
    Tom O.
    "I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
    -The Writer
  • eeriepadaveeeriepadave West Chester, PAPosts: 26,683
    pjhawks said:
    JK_Livin said:
    Nice weekend in the NFCE!
    very nice weekend for the Birds.  Good game last night.  I wonder how much money was won/lost on the last play fumble touchdown that gave the Chiefs the cover and hit the over at the same time.  had to be a lot of pissed on gamblers on that play.
    Arizona next week.  They should win.
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  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 10,216
    Cowherd is a friggin' idiot.  An annoying idiot.
    Rob
    Seattle

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