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Backspacer - Where are the riffs?

jonbond1779jonbond1779 London, UK Posts: 1,547
edited September 2009 in The Porch
Anyone else noticed that there are no riffs on this album!! WTF????
"Bring it back, to the clean form. To the pure form"

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    cippociappocippociappo Posts: 692
    I hear them clearly.

    Mmm.. Supersonic? Force of Nature?
    Johnny Guitar?
    The Fixer?

    ... :shock:
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    imissyoualreadyimissyoualready Posts: 438
    jonbond1779 wrote:
    Anyone else noticed that there are no riffs on this album!! WTF????

    are you serious? do you know what a riff is?
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    cannotstaylongcannotstaylong Posts: 668
    jonbond1779 wrote:
    Anyone else noticed that there are no riffs on this album!! WTF????

    I think you may be a bit fuzzy on the definition of "riffs." I think there are plenty on this album.
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    ZidaneZidane Ottawa Posts: 362
    And the answer is... Who cares!
    You're not what you own - Ian MacKaye, Fugazi

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    1STmammal2wearPants1STmammal2wearPants Worcester, MA Posts: 2,837
    probably solos he means. there aren't many at all, save for 'amongst the waves.'
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    G ForceG Force Posts: 1,392
    Yeah... definately not many solos. Was Ed just blowing smoke up our asses in that interview with Matt where he says Mike has some of his best solos on this album? Really Ed? Where?
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    MortalityMortality Posts: 154
    TipJammer wrote:
    Yeah... definately not many solos. Was Ed just blowing smoke up our asses in that interview with Matt where he says Mike has some of his best solos on this album? Really Ed? Where?

    He changed that to best "patterns" he has ever done. If you listen closely you can hear them throughout the verses. I like his little pattern in supersonic, sounds like its from the wild west.
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    1STmammal2wearPants1STmammal2wearPants Worcester, MA Posts: 2,837
    TipJammer wrote:
    Yeah... definately not many solos. Was Ed just blowing smoke up our asses in that interview with Matt where he says Mike has some of his best solos on this album? Really Ed? Where?

    personally, i think mike was in the bahamas during the recording of the album........
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    G ForceG Force Posts: 1,392
    Mortality wrote:
    TipJammer wrote:
    Yeah... definately not many solos. Was Ed just blowing smoke up our asses in that interview with Matt where he says Mike has some of his best solos on this album? Really Ed? Where?

    He changed that to best "patterns" he has ever done. If you listen closely you can hear them throughout the verses. I like his little pattern in supersonic, sounds like its from the wild west.

    Gotcha. Well... I could go for some more solos. I like what we get in Amongst the Waves but even that could have been longer.

    I'm going to make this my last complaint about length... but its really the only problem with the album and one I think they could have easily overcome... Just give us more. We love you... give us longer songs. Johnny Guitar to me seems to end at the half way point. How about a wild Matt Camera drum bonanza. Take a page out of Jack Irons book and gimme a track that's a red dot... Something... Filler is cool with me. I just wanna be able to knock out 60 miles on the freeway listening to one album.
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    DeLukinDeLukin Posts: 2,736
    I just listened to Avocado after spinning Bacspacer constantly all weekend and I'm not sure if it's the production or what but Avocado does seem to rock a little harder. More hooks/riffs/licks,etc, more Mike, more Jeff, and the guitars are constantly in your face. Backspacer seems to put Ed in your face. Which is good, don't get me wrong, but I can see what the OP was getting at when he mentioned an absence of 'riffs'. Not sure better/worse is a fair comparison, but in the OPs defense Backspacer definitely seems to be less riff-rocky than Avocado.
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    DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,412
    What about the fuzztastic solo in Supersonic? The classic toned licks of Amongst the Waves?

    Their albums have been pretty short on solos since 1994.

    I don't hear many riffs, either, but there is plenty of Mike here.
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    corduroykellycorduroykelly Posts: 668
    If you don't hear any riffs maybe you don't know what they are?
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    jonbond1779jonbond1779 London, UK Posts: 1,547
    I think I caused confusion here...

    When I say riffs I mean the distinctive melodic figure that runs throughout the song..like, Jeremy, Alive, In Hiding, Given to Fly, Leash, Yellow Ledbetter, Corduroy and so on....

    Its just that Backspacer (with the expection of the ballads) has no real memorable riffs or hooks...Dont get me wrong, I think its a great album and Im so happy we have more PJ to add to our collections but the songs seem to basic!
    "Bring it back, to the clean form. To the pure form"

    28/09/04 - Boston, 20/04/06 - London [\\mm//Astoria\\mm//] - 18/06/07 - Wembley Arena, 11/08/09 -  London [\\mm//Shepherds Bush Empire\\mm//],18/08/09 - 02 Arena, 25/06/10 - Hyde Park, 26/06/12 - Amsterdam, 27/06/12 - Amsterdam, 08/07/14 - Leeds,11/07/14 - Milton Keynes, 13/06/18 - Amsterdam, 18/06/18 - London 02 Arena, 17/07/18 - London 02 Arena, 08/08/22 - Hyde Park, 9/08/22 - Hyde Park - 25/08/22 - Amsterdam, 29/07/24 - London {*Tottenham Stadium TBC*}
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    TT8270TT8270 Posts: 429
    jonbond1779 wrote:
    Anyone else noticed that there are no riffs on this album!! WTF????

    Yep. They're in Stone's pocket which Ed has ordered to keep closed.
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    KinseyKinsey Posts: 197
    DewieCox wrote:
    Their albums have been pretty short on solos since 1994.
    I don't hear many riffs, either, but there is plenty of Mike here.

    That is one of the most intelligent things I've read here in a long time. I keep seeing posts bemoaning the lack of Mike solos - Vs was the last album where Mike was regularly set up to let rip. Since then he has usually coloured songs rather than led them, or added solos to live versions, like Corduroy. Backspacer is no different, but does feature one of his best ever on Amongst The Waves.

    Backspacer has plenty of distinctive riffs, melodies, whatever you want to call them.
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    DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,412
    corduroykelly wrote:
    If you don't hear any riffs maybe you don't know what they are?

    If you do, maybe you don't.

    There are a few minor rifflets, but nothing that just screams RRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIFFFFF!!!!!!!, like the old days.
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    TMudrickTMudrick Posts: 267
    I agree with the OP here. Its not a bad thing...However, I was wondering myself where are the hard rockin riffs a la DTE, Alive, RVM?...This album is very power chord heavy and leans to the punk genre. Being a musician, picking up the chord progression is very simple on this record. Heck, I can listen to the album with a guitar in hand and play every single song because its just simple chord progression after simple chord progression...There really aren't any "riffs" on this record just melodies and chord arrangments.
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    imissyoualreadyimissyoualready Posts: 438
    jonbond1779 wrote:
    I think I caused confusion here...

    When I say riffs I mean the distinctive melodic figure that runs throughout the song..like, Jeremy, Alive, In Hiding, Given to Fly, Leash, Yellow Ledbetter, Corduroy and so on....

    Its just that Backspacer (with the expection of the ballads) has no real memorable riffs or hooks...Dont get me wrong, I think its a great album and Im so happy we have more PJ to add to our collections but the songs seem to basic!

    Oh man. I'm gonna leave this alone.....no i'm not. In hiding does not have riffs, a "hook" is usually a catchy chorus that tends major as opposed to minor and this album is clearly full of those (8 out of 11 songs have a clear hook.....SOME HAVE 2 different kinds of hook). I'll give you that the songs are basic in structure but the individual parts are not basic at all. I think we know what you basically mean but you might want to brush up on your garage band jargon.
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    imissyoualreadyimissyoualready Posts: 438
    TM248419 wrote:
    I agree with the OP here. Its not a bad thing...However, I was wondering myself where are the hard rockin riffs a la DTE, Alive, RVM?...This album is very power chord heavy and leans to the punk genre. Being a musician, picking up the chord progression is very simple on this record. Heck, I can listen to the album with a guitar in hand and play every single song because its just simple chord progression after simple chord progression...There really aren't any "riffs" on this record just melodies and chord arrangments.

    Oh man......the chord progressions are pretty easy to figure out, i'll give you that. But how long do you think it would take you to figure out each guitar part. There's a lot of neat stuff in there and it's not super easy stuff that they're doing there.
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    FahkaFahka Posts: 3,187
    jonbond1779 wrote:
    I think I caused confusion here...

    When I say riffs I mean the distinctive melodic figure that runs throughout the song..like, Jeremy, Alive, In Hiding, Given to Fly, Leash, Yellow Ledbetter, Corduroy and so on....

    Its just that Backspacer (with the expection of the ballads) has no real memorable riffs or hooks...Dont get me wrong, I think its a great album and Im so happy we have more PJ to add to our collections but the songs seem to basic!

    Maybe stone jut got preoccupied with Hank songs?? :mrgreen:
    I think you more so mean "licks" Any song with guitar in it has a riff..... I know what you are saying but riff is generalizing it to much.. I think this album was definitely lacking powerful lead and yes, stone usually offers more "defining" licks that kind of separate the songs from each other..
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    Gremmie03Gremmie03 Posts: 502
    There's a lot of neat stuff in there and it's not super easy stuff that they're doing there.

    I enjoy the neat stuff. Their placements are candy to my ear.
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    Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,728
    The OP probably means there's no awesome riffs
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    NewJPageNewJPage Posts: 3,301
    Kinsey wrote:
    DewieCox wrote:
    Their albums have been pretty short on solos since 1994.
    I don't hear many riffs, either, but there is plenty of Mike here.

    That is one of the most intelligent things I've read here in a long time. I keep seeing posts bemoaning the lack of Mike solos - Vs was the last album where Mike was regularly set up to let rip.

    i humbly disagree. Mike kills on pretty much every song on riot act (i think he has a legitimate solo in all but like 2 songs) and on most of s/t.
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    dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPRO Posts: 139,158
    if u mean solos..yes there arent a lot..
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    12345AGNST112345AGNST1 Posts: 4,906
    jonbond1779 wrote:
    I think I caused confusion here...

    When I say riffs I mean the distinctive melodic figure that runs throughout the song..like, Jeremy, Alive, In Hiding, Given to Fly, Leash, Yellow Ledbetter, Corduroy and so on....

    Its just that Backspacer (with the expection of the ballads) has no real memorable riffs or hooks...Dont get me wrong, I think its a great album and Im so happy we have more PJ to add to our collections but the songs seem to basic!

    no memorable hooks? this album is more poppy, catchy and melodic than any PJ album in years!
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    josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,300
    Every thread allways goes back to this comment "like in the old days " it has allready been done this is where the band is at this moment in time Mike is very happy with the way it is .. :mrgreen:
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    darthvedder81darthvedder81 Posts: 688
    DewieCox wrote:
    corduroykelly wrote:
    If you don't hear any riffs maybe you don't know what they are?

    If you do, maybe you don't.

    There are a few minor rifflets, but nothing that just screams RRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIFFFFF!!!!!!!, like the old days.

    This gripe might have made sense in 1994 or 1996. It's kind of ridiculous now. Ten and Versus followed on the heels of 70's and 80's arena rock. The band hasn't been making music like that for a long time so all the criticisms just sound like a broken record. There's still some riffing to be found: Supersonic breakdown, Amongst the Waves, the outro on Johnny Guitar...
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    Stu42Stu42 Posts: 178
    Definately try listening with headphones, the riffs really aren't as up front on this one. I think it could be a matter of the production, the rhythm section gets pushed way up in the mix so matt and jeff kinda dominate most of the time (i like it personally) so it gets harder to distinguish whats going on. I wish the record wasn't so loud though so the guitars didn't blend together so much. Its not supercompressed like avocado, and it sounds good, but I feel like theres a lack of space.
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    I_GOT_no_IDeaI_GOT_no_IDea Posts: 653
    Stu42 wrote:
    Definately try listening with headphones, the riffs really aren't as up front on this one. I think it could be a matter of the production, the rhythm section gets pushed way up in the mix so matt and jeff kinda dominate most of the time (i like it personally) so it gets harder to distinguish whats going on. I wish the record wasn't so loud though so the guitars didn't blend together so much. Its not supercompressed like avocado, and it sounds good, but I feel like theres a lack of space.
    good call stu - i disagreed with you on the amongst the waves and unthought known thread, but you're on the money here. i actually like the domination of matt and jeff on this album - it is different to previous albums. regardless, where mike comes into his own is LIVE and i'm sure we'll get some wicked solos thrown into some of these wonderful songs. i really like the thin lizzy style snippet within his amongst the waves solo by the way.
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    clk019clk019 Posts: 84
    DeLukin wrote:
    I just listened to Avocado after spinning Bacspacer constantly all weekend and I'm not sure if it's the production or what but Avocado does seem to rock a little harder. More hooks/riffs/licks,etc, more Mike, more Jeff, and the guitars are constantly in your face. Backspacer seems to put Ed in your face.

    This is the first thing I noticed... The mix was really heavy on vocal presence... I miss the balance...

    There are riffs there... Chunkier, tighter... I think the miss-my-"memorable" riffness comes from being exposed to extended riffs that take over measure after measure and stick in your craw... Think Disadent and Given to Fly and Whipping... These are more like Corduroy... tight little numbers.

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