Stone, Hetfield or Keef ?

lucylespian · December 2007

OK, since there is another silly thread here pointlessly comparing musicians, I thought, why not start another one.

I chose these three, cos I respect riff writers as much as lead players, and these three are the three best riffmeisters.

I don't actually have a favourite, but I'm intereted to see what opinions people have to offer.
I will say though, that James is the only one who sings and plays at the same time, which would give him a head-start if this were a competition.

MLC2006 · December 2007

well, though the Stones are classic, I still think a lot of their stuff was stolen and not genuine, so that would remove Richards from my list.

as for Stone and Hetfield, I'd say Hetfield. why? hmm, hard to say. I guess because a lot of his songs are much more complex. and I think he 'invented' a new style of music moreso than Stone. without Mike, PJ aren't PJ, no matter how good Stone's riffs are. but in Metallica, Hammett could be replaced (though I wouldn't want him replaced) and they'd still be Metallica because of the monstrously creative riffs. in fact, they are one of the bands where the rhythm stands out for me much more than the solos.

so that's my opinion...not only is Hetfield the best of the 3, I'd say he's probably the best rhythm guitarist of all time. at least up to and including the Black album. the 2 Load albums were pretty mediocre and uncreative and I didn't even hear any guitar on St Anger because the drums were so loud and out of tune.

Pearl Jam and toast · December 2007

I prefer Stone, then Keef, then Hetfield.

Remember when you're talking about Stone that Pearl Jam is a band that limits itself musically. Every single member of that band (including Ed's voice) is capable of more than they show us.

I dunno which of those three are the "best", so to speak, but that's a valuabe little skill that Pearl Jam has,.. keeps the music honest.

keeponrockin · December 2007

Keef definitley has the cool factor, that's for sure:p

Anon · December 2007

Yar, as awesome as Stone is, i'd say Hetfield.

To sing simultaneously while playing the riffs that Hetfield plays is totally different. Takes massive skill and talent. Not to mention he is easily up there with the best riff writers ever.

On one of the boots i have of Metallica playing on the Master of Puppets tour, they play all the songs, like, twice the speed than the album versions. Hetfield was at his greatest then imo.

A lot of people don't realize how technical Hetfield's playing can be. He plays quite a few of Metallica's solos (the 1st solo in Master of Puppets and the second solo in To Live Is To Die) and he's written a lot of interesting classical and blues-sounding stuff (the acoustic parts in To Live is to Die, the interlude of The Unforgiven, etc.) Also, he's wicked fast. Downpicking nearly eight minutes worth of eight notes at 200 + BPM in Master of Puppets is not easy peasy

Pacomc79 · December 2007

I'm not really into comparisons at high levels of musicianship. All 3 are talented to an extent even Remarkable. I'd say Hetfield is unquestionably the most technically sound.

Keef is my Favorite who I musically bond with probably the most. I just enjoy that style the most.

lucylespian · December 2007

Great answers people. I too find James' ability to sing and play amazing. The chorus in Sad but True is a very syncopated rhythm part, that took me hours to learn correctly, and that was after failing utterly on the previous attempts spaced over a couple of years.
I'm surprised that people think the Load era stuff is less complex though. I loe to play those albims, and the arrangements are much more complex, and the style less rigid, and they are consequently a bit harder to play, thoug the speed is less.
I worship MOP as a song.

One f my favourite PJ riffs is Dissident, such an elegant progression.

MLC2006 · December 2007

lucylespian wrote:

I'm surprised that people think the Load era stuff is less complex though. I loe to play those albims, and the arrangements are much more complex, and the style less rigid, and they are consequently a bit harder to play, thoug the speed is less.
I worship MOP as a song.

there is no album of their's that is more complex that "And Justice For All". Metallica themselves will tell you that. I've read interviews where they said the reason that all the albums from the Black album forward were parred down was because AJFA songs were too hard to play live. in fact, there are several AJFA songs that they've never played the full versions of live, instead opting for parred down "medleys".

In the past year, I've learned "Harvester of Sorrow", "Blackened", "Frayed Ends of Sanity", and part of "One". some of those song's rhythms and speeds are just ungodly. and a lot of people want to say that the production of AJFA was shitty, but I rather like it. and the tone settings used on that album was unique as well.

Hetfield has said that this album they're working on now is a bridge between AJFA and the Black album. if that's the case, I'm looking forward to it immensely because those were two great albums.

who's_pearljam? · December 2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylGT0ng-dM8&feature=related

To me, less is more.

pjtaper · December 2007

they are all badass, and very different... ok, well stone isn't badass, more like yuppy, but they can all write a killer riff!

DOSW · December 2007

None of the above. My vote for all-time riffmeister is Tom Morello.

Yeah, his solos got old after 1995, but I have no idea how he came up with such a huge number of mind-crushing riffs.

lucylespian · December 2007

MLC2006 wrote:

there is no album of their's that is more complex that "And Justice For All". Metallica themselves will tell you that. I've read interviews where they said the reason that all the albums from the Black album forward were parred down was because AJFA songs were too hard to play live. in fact, there are several AJFA songs that they've never played the full versions of live, instead opting for parred down "medleys".

In the past year, I've learned "Harvester of Sorrow", "Blackened", "Frayed Ends of Sanity", and part of "One". some of those song's rhythms and speeds are just ungodly. and a lot of people want to say that the production of AJFA was shitty, but I rather like it. and the tone settings used on that album was unique as well.

Hetfield has said that this album they're working on now is a bridge between AJFA and the Black album. if that's the case, I'm looking forward to it immensely because those were two great albums.

]

I have a tenuous relationship with AJFA. I play most of One (still working on that pesky solo) , HArvester, and bits of others. Genrally I find it a bit dark and heavy, but sometimes I just love the whole thing too. It hasn't had a spin in a while, I'll fix that tonight.
You are right about the difficulty level, but I was kinda referring more to the difference in "rigidity" wiht teh Loads. They just have a difefrnet feel, and the riffs are played a little bit differently every time they are repeated.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Metallica, don't have a KH-2 and a Mesa MArk IIC+ for nothing. I spend as much time playing their stuff as everyone else put together, and then some. I just love the Loads as much as everything else.
I am hanging for the new album.

MLC2006 · December 2007

lucylespian wrote:

]

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Metallica, don't have a KH-2 and a Mesa MArk IIC+ for nothing. I spend as much time playing their stuff as everyone else put together, and then some. I just love the Loads as much as everything else.
I am hanging for the new album.

damn, you got the $1900 one? I was thinking about getting the $900 one but think I"m going to get a Jackson Dinky instead because of the price difference.

lucylespian · December 2007

MLC2006 wrote:

damn, you got the $1900 one? I was thinking about getting the $900 one but think I"m going to get a Jackson Dinky instead because of the price difference.

Oh, man, you guys are so lucky.

The list price for KH-2 here in OZ is $4500, I paid about $3600, I think, and keep in mind the currency then was about AU$1 bought US80c.

THe KH-602 is a very nice guitar, and the ltd's are great. I have a Viper 301.

The KH-2 is a bit of a step up, satin neck which is seriously to die for, I really mean that, and better metal in the FR and a great case.
I'm not familiar with the Jackson, but great guitars. Those and the Schecter Hellraiser about the same price, all very good.
I'm just a Kirk/JAmes/Metallica fanboy, znd had to have the KH-2, what can I say ??

MLC2006 · December 2007

lucylespian wrote:

Oh, man, you guys are so lucky.

The list price for KH-2 here in OZ is $4500, I paid about $3600, I think, and keep in mind the currency then was about AU$1 bought US80c.

THe KH-602 is a very nice guitar, and the ltd's are great. I have a Viper 301.

The KH-2 is a bit of a step up, satin neck which is seriously to die for, I really mean that, and better metal in the FR and a great case.
I'm not familiar with the Jackson, but great guitars. Those and the Schecter Hellraiser about the same price, all very good.
I'm just a Kirk/JAmes/Metallica fanboy, znd had to have the KH-2, what can I say ??

they keep remaking these guitars. currently, the KH-602 now comes with an ORIGINAL Floyd Rose rather than a "licensed" one and the body wood is now alder instead of maple (never really understood why they were making it with maple to begin with). and I personally dig the skull/crossbone inlays.

it seems to be a good deal, but I still think I'm going to opt for the Jackson since it has pretty much everything I want.....alder body, EMG pickups (81/85), and 24 frets. plus, it's $300 cheaper than the KH-602. I'm wanting to get an SG Standard in the next year so buying the cheaper shredder git now will allow me to get the Gibson sooner. plus, I got to get another amp soon because I'm currently playing my Metallica tunes through a Fender Blues Deluxe with a Metal Muff. actually not a bad combination, but definitely not as good as a Marshall or Mesa.

speaking of the Hammett guitars, have you seen the $10,000 one? I guess in Oz that would go for about $30,000. they only made 400 and it's a sharp looking guitar. it's a wierd kind of transparent gray rather than black and it's has his autograph on the headstock. it's ESP rather than LTD of course. couldn't get that one unless I won the lottery, but it's pretty impressive.

the Hanneman (Slayer) LTD looks pretty good too. it's about the same as the Hammett model except it has a different bridge and the headstock is right-side-up rather than reversed and the inlays are the Slayer Eagle rather than the skull/crossbones. there is also a highend version of that one that is camoflouge rather than black. I can't hardly talk myself into buying Slayer gear though because I feel like I"d be giving money directly to Satan.

lucylespian · December 2007

Yeah, I have seen the Hammet 20th Anniversary. They sold about 2 or so here, at an undisclosed price.
My wife was keen for me to buy one. I may yet,l next year when I am in teh USA. They only made 40 as I understand. There are still a few at places like Private Reserve Guitars.

Anon · December 2007

lucylespian wrote:

Yeah, I have seen the Hammet 20th Anniversary. They sold about 2 or so here, at an undisclosed price.
My wife was keen for me to buy one. I may yet,l next year when I am in teh USA. They only made 40 as I understand. There are still a few at places like Private Reserve Guitars.

The exchange rate is not too shabby at the moment. You could get one for around $11k.

Go on. You know you want too! Awesome christmas present!

Pearl Jam and toast · December 2007

DOSW wrote:

None of the above. My vote for all-time riffmeister is Tom Morello.

Yeah, his solos got old after 1995, but I have no idea how he came up with such a huge number of mind-crushing riffs.

He's a great player, but isn't his greatness more of a novelty? He's inovative, but sort of a one or two trick pony.

*shrugs*

Anon · December 2007

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

He's a great player, but isn't his greatness more of a novelty? He's inovative, but sort of a one or two trick pony.

*shrugs*

See i don't get that. How can Morello's greatness be a novelty? If you're good, then you're good. You don't need to justify it by playing an 18-string guitar behind your back and creating the "J" chord. You're just good. I mean, right? This is how I always looked at it anyway.

My3rdEye · December 2007

MLC2006 wrote:

Hetfield has said that this album they're working on now is a bridge between AJFA and the Black album. if that's the case, I'm looking forward to it immensely because those were two great albums.

Holy shit!! That would be awesome!!

Hetfield is my choice for the original question. The riffs are absolutely incredible!! Ride the Lightning, the song and the entire album, awesome riffs throughout.

I do hope they come back with something special after St. Anger. That was the first Metallica album I didn't buy. Just terrible.

Pearl Jam and toast · December 2007

Pj_Gurl wrote:

See i don't get that. How can Morello's greatness be a novelty? If you're good, then you're good. You don't need to justify it by playing an 18-string guitar behind your back and creating the "J" chord. You're just good. I mean, right? This is how I always looked at it anyway.

That's not really what I meant. Morello invented (or at least popularized and capitalized on) some really cool techniques - which was great. He deserves to be remembered for it. But that doesn't put him in the same leauge as Hendrix or Page (among others). They're remembered not only for the great music and amazing musicianship, but for influence.

If Morello would actually utilize his potential and venture outside of the same 5th and 7th fret cock rock and tired, fifteen year old tricks he could leave a real legacy.

Stone, Hetfield or Keef ?

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