Stone, Hetfield or Keef ?

lucylespian

OK, since there is another silly thread here pointlessly comparing musicians, I thought, why not start another one.

I chose these three, cos I respect riff writers as much as lead players, and these three are the three best riffmeisters.

I don't actually have a favourite, but I'm intereted to see what opinions people have to offer.
I will say though, that James is the only one who sings and plays at the same time, which would give him a head-start if this were a competition.

MLC2006

well, though the Stones are classic, I still think a lot of their stuff was stolen and not genuine, so that would remove Richards from my list.

as for Stone and Hetfield, I'd say Hetfield. why? hmm, hard to say. I guess because a lot of his songs are much more complex. and I think he 'invented' a new style of music moreso than Stone. without Mike, PJ aren't PJ, no matter how good Stone's riffs are. but in Metallica, Hammett could be replaced (though I wouldn't want him replaced) and they'd still be Metallica because of the monstrously creative riffs. in fact, they are one of the bands where the rhythm stands out for me much more than the solos.

so that's my opinion...not only is Hetfield the best of the 3, I'd say he's probably the best rhythm guitarist of all time. at least up to and including the Black album. the 2 Load albums were pretty mediocre and uncreative and I didn't even hear any guitar on St Anger because the drums were so loud and out of tune.

Pearl Jam and toast

I prefer Stone, then Keef, then Hetfield.

Remember when you're talking about Stone that Pearl Jam is a band that limits itself musically. Every single member of that band (including Ed's voice) is capable of more than they show us.

I dunno which of those three are the "best", so to speak, but that's a valuabe little skill that Pearl Jam has,.. keeps the music honest.

keeponrockin

Keef definitley has the cool factor, that's for sure:p

Anon

Yar, as awesome as Stone is, i'd say Hetfield.

To sing simultaneously while playing the riffs that Hetfield plays is totally different. Takes massive skill and talent. Not to mention he is easily up there with the best riff writers ever.

On one of the boots i have of Metallica playing on the Master of Puppets tour, they play all the songs, like, twice the speed than the album versions. Hetfield was at his greatest then imo.

A lot of people don't realize how technical Hetfield's playing can be. He plays quite a few of Metallica's solos (the 1st solo in Master of Puppets and the second solo in To Live Is To Die) and he's written a lot of interesting classical and blues-sounding stuff (the acoustic parts in To Live is to Die, the interlude of The Unforgiven, etc.) Also, he's wicked fast. Downpicking nearly eight minutes worth of eight notes at 200 + BPM in Master of Puppets is not easy peasy

Pacomc79

I'm not really into comparisons at high levels of musicianship. All 3 are talented to an extent even Remarkable. I'd say Hetfield is unquestionably the most technically sound.

Keef is my Favorite who I musically bond with probably the most. I just enjoy that style the most.

lucylespian

Great answers people. I too find James' ability to sing and play amazing. The chorus in Sad but True is a very syncopated rhythm part, that took me hours to learn correctly, and that was after failing utterly on the previous attempts spaced over a couple of years.
I'm surprised that people think the Load era stuff is less complex though. I loe to play those albims, and the arrangements are much more complex, and the style less rigid, and they are consequently a bit harder to play, thoug the speed is less.
I worship MOP as a song.

One f my favourite PJ riffs is Dissident, such an elegant progression.

MLC2006

lucylespian wrote:

I'm surprised that people think the Load era stuff is less complex though. I loe to play those albims, and the arrangements are much more complex, and the style less rigid, and they are consequently a bit harder to play, thoug the speed is less.
I worship MOP as a song.

there is no album of their's that is more complex that "And Justice For All". Metallica themselves will tell you that. I've read interviews where they said the reason that all the albums from the Black album forward were parred down was because AJFA songs were too hard to play live. in fact, there are several AJFA songs that they've never played the full versions of live, instead opting for parred down "medleys".

In the past year, I've learned "Harvester of Sorrow", "Blackened", "Frayed Ends of Sanity", and part of "One". some of those song's rhythms and speeds are just ungodly. and a lot of people want to say that the production of AJFA was shitty, but I rather like it. and the tone settings used on that album was unique as well.

Hetfield has said that this album they're working on now is a bridge between AJFA and the Black album. if that's the case, I'm looking forward to it immensely because those were two great albums.

who's_pearljam?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylGT0ng-dM8&feature=related




To me, less is more.

pjtaper

they are all badass, and very different... ok, well stone isn't badass, more like yuppy, but they can all write a killer riff!

DOSW

None of the above. My vote for all-time riffmeister is Tom Morello.

Yeah, his solos got old after 1995, but I have no idea how he came up with such a huge number of mind-crushing riffs.

lucylespian

MLC2006 wrote:

there is no album of their's that is more complex that "And Justice For All". Metallica themselves will tell you that. I've read interviews where they said the reason that all the albums from the Black album forward were parred down was because AJFA songs were too hard to play live. in fact, there are several AJFA songs that they've never played the full versions of live, instead opting for parred down "medleys".

In the past year, I've learned "Harvester of Sorrow", "Blackened", "Frayed Ends of Sanity", and part of "One". some of those song's rhythms and speeds are just ungodly. and a lot of people want to say that the production of AJFA was shitty, but I rather like it. and the tone settings used on that album was unique as well.

Hetfield has said that this album they're working on now is a bridge between AJFA and the Black album. if that's the case, I'm looking forward to it immensely because those were two great albums.

]


I have a tenuous relationship with AJFA. I play most of One (still working on that pesky solo) , HArvester, and bits of others. Genrally I find it a bit dark and heavy, but sometimes I just love the whole thing too. It hasn't had a spin in a while, I'll fix that tonight.
You are right about the difficulty level, but I was kinda referring more to the difference in "rigidity" wiht teh Loads. They just have a difefrnet feel, and the riffs are played a little bit differently every time they are repeated.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Metallica, don't have a KH-2 and a Mesa MArk IIC+ for nothing. I spend as much time playing their stuff as everyone else put together, and then some. I just love the Loads as much as everything else.
I am hanging for the new album.

MLC2006

lucylespian wrote:

]



Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Metallica, don't have a KH-2 and a Mesa MArk IIC+ for nothing. I spend as much time playing their stuff as everyone else put together, and then some. I just love the Loads as much as everything else.
I am hanging for the new album.

damn, you got the $1900 one? I was thinking about getting the $900 one but think I"m going to get a Jackson Dinky instead because of the price difference.

lucylespian

MLC2006 wrote:

damn, you got the $1900 one? I was thinking about getting the $900 one but think I"m going to get a Jackson Dinky instead because of the price difference.

Oh, man, you guys are so lucky.

The list price for KH-2 here in OZ is $4500, I paid about $3600, I think, and keep in mind the currency then was about AU$1 bought US80c.

THe KH-602 is a very nice guitar, and the ltd's are great. I have a Viper 301.

The KH-2 is a bit of a step up, satin neck which is seriously to die for, I really mean that, and better metal in the FR and a great case.
I'm not familiar with the Jackson, but great guitars. Those and the Schecter Hellraiser about the same price, all very good.
I'm just a Kirk/JAmes/Metallica fanboy, znd had to have the KH-2, what can I say ??

MLC2006

lucylespian wrote:

Oh, man, you guys are so lucky.

The list price for KH-2 here in OZ is $4500, I paid about $3600, I think, and keep in mind the currency then was about AU$1 bought US80c.

THe KH-602 is a very nice guitar, and the ltd's are great. I have a Viper 301.

The KH-2 is a bit of a step up, satin neck which is seriously to die for, I really mean that, and better metal in the FR and a great case.
I'm not familiar with the Jackson, but great guitars. Those and the Schecter Hellraiser about the same price, all very good.
I'm just a Kirk/JAmes/Metallica fanboy, znd had to have the KH-2, what can I say ??

they keep remaking these guitars. currently, the KH-602 now comes with an ORIGINAL Floyd Rose rather than a "licensed" one and the body wood is now alder instead of maple (never really understood why they were making it with maple to begin with). and I personally dig the skull/crossbone inlays.

it seems to be a good deal, but I still think I'm going to opt for the Jackson since it has pretty much everything I want.....alder body, EMG pickups (81/85), and 24 frets. plus, it's $300 cheaper than the KH-602. I'm wanting to get an SG Standard in the next year so buying the cheaper shredder git now will allow me to get the Gibson sooner. plus, I got to get another amp soon because I'm currently playing my Metallica tunes through a Fender Blues Deluxe with a Metal Muff. actually not a bad combination, but definitely not as good as a Marshall or Mesa.

speaking of the Hammett guitars, have you seen the $10,000 one? I guess in Oz that would go for about $30,000. they only made 400 and it's a sharp looking guitar. it's a wierd kind of transparent gray rather than black and it's has his autograph on the headstock. it's ESP rather than LTD of course. couldn't get that one unless I won the lottery, but it's pretty impressive.

the Hanneman (Slayer) LTD looks pretty good too. it's about the same as the Hammett model except it has a different bridge and the headstock is right-side-up rather than reversed and the inlays are the Slayer Eagle rather than the skull/crossbones. there is also a highend version of that one that is camoflouge rather than black. I can't hardly talk myself into buying Slayer gear though because I feel like I"d be giving money directly to Satan.

lucylespian

Yeah, I have seen the Hammet 20th Anniversary. They sold about 2 or so here, at an undisclosed price.
My wife was keen for me to buy one. I may yet,l next year when I am in teh USA. They only made 40 as I understand. There are still a few at places like Private Reserve Guitars.

Anon

lucylespian wrote:

Yeah, I have seen the Hammet 20th Anniversary. They sold about 2 or so here, at an undisclosed price.
My wife was keen for me to buy one. I may yet,l next year when I am in teh USA. They only made 40 as I understand. There are still a few at places like Private Reserve Guitars.

The exchange rate is not too shabby at the moment. You could get one for around $11k.

Go on. You know you want too! Awesome christmas present!

Pearl Jam and toast

DOSW wrote:

None of the above. My vote for all-time riffmeister is Tom Morello.

Yeah, his solos got old after 1995, but I have no idea how he came up with such a huge number of mind-crushing riffs.

He's a great player, but isn't his greatness more of a novelty? He's inovative, but sort of a one or two trick pony.

*shrugs*

Anon

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

He's a great player, but isn't his greatness more of a novelty? He's inovative, but sort of a one or two trick pony.

*shrugs*

See i don't get that. How can Morello's greatness be a novelty? If you're good, then you're good. You don't need to justify it by playing an 18-string guitar behind your back and creating the "J" chord. You're just good. I mean, right? This is how I always looked at it anyway.

My3rdEye

MLC2006 wrote:

Hetfield has said that this album they're working on now is a bridge between AJFA and the Black album. if that's the case, I'm looking forward to it immensely because those were two great albums.

Holy shit!! That would be awesome!!

Hetfield is my choice for the original question. The riffs are absolutely incredible!! Ride the Lightning, the song and the entire album, awesome riffs throughout.

I do hope they come back with something special after St. Anger. That was the first Metallica album I didn't buy. Just terrible.

Pearl Jam and toast

Pj_Gurl wrote:

See i don't get that. How can Morello's greatness be a novelty? If you're good, then you're good. You don't need to justify it by playing an 18-string guitar behind your back and creating the "J" chord. You're just good. I mean, right? This is how I always looked at it anyway.

That's not really what I meant. Morello invented (or at least popularized and capitalized on) some really cool techniques - which was great. He deserves to be remembered for it. But that doesn't put him in the same leauge as Hendrix or Page (among others). They're remembered not only for the great music and amazing musicianship, but for influence.

If Morello would actually utilize his potential and venture outside of the same 5th and 7th fret cock rock and tired, fifteen year old tricks he could leave a real legacy.

Anon

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

That's not really what I meant. Morello invented (or at least popularized and capitalized on) some really cool techniques - which was great. He deserves to be remembered for it. But that doesn't put him in the same leauge as Hendrix or Page (among others). They're remembered not only for the great music and amazing musicianship, but for influence.

If Morello would actually utilize his potential and venture outside of the same 5th and 7th fret cock rock and tired, fifteen year old tricks he could leave a real legacy.

i get what you meant now. thanks for that.

Pearl Jam and toast

Pj_Gurl wrote:

i get what you meant now. thanks for that.

*tips hat*

LukinFan

stone because of his haircut

lucylespian

Pj_Gurl wrote:

The exchange rate is not too shabby at the moment. You could get one for around $11k.

Go on. You know you want too! Awesome christmas present!

True. I will be in the US in about 6 weeks, so I'm going to try one and haggle if the price is right, maybe.
I really want to update my audio gear next though. My stereo is a pretty sad collection of parts, and I want some new speakers, Bowers and Wilkinson, and maybe a turntable. I'm starting to hanker for vinyl, sick I know.
My guitar gear collection is in pretty good shape at present and does not need adding to really. I will be getting a new wah though, a tremolo for The Immigrant Song and maybe a couple of crazy ZVEX pedals. HAve to buy some stash while in LA, would be a bleeding crime not to.
Spent a couple of hours tonight hammering some KEA riffs. Got teh wifey the drum tab book, gave it to her today, so we will be playing Motorbreath and Am I Evil tomorow, woohoo !!!!!

MLC2006

speaking of Metallica, I got the newest Guitar World magazine in the mail yesterday. Hammett is on the cover. he has a Randall signature amp coming out now. it has some kind of modules you can take out and replace with different ones. he said there are also blues and jazz modules, etc. so he can play blues with friends and then go to Metallica rehearsal and put in his signature modules and play Metallica songs with the same amp. basically, this amp is supposed to have his clean sound, rhythm sound, and lead sound. it looks pretty good, but some Randall's are overpriced and it looks like this one probably will be too. but with a Mesa, I don't think you'd need a Randall to get his sound.

lucylespian

MLC2006 wrote:

speaking of Metallica, I got the newest Guitar World magazine in the mail yesterday. Hammett is on the cover. he has a Randall signature amp coming out now. it has some kind of modules you can take out and replace with different ones. he said there are also blues and jazz modules, etc. so he can play blues with friends and then go to Metallica rehearsal and put in his signature modules and play Metallica songs with the same amp. basically, this amp is supposed to have his clean sound, rhythm sound, and lead sound. it looks pretty good, but some Randall's are overpriced and it looks like this one probably will be too. but with a Mesa, I don't think you'd need a Randall to get his sound.

Yeah, I have heard about that head. It sounds good in principle. In reality, anything even vaguely gimicky has a very short acceptance and lifespan, so it will be like digital modelling. It will have it's fans, but I can't see it going far. Mind you, they said that about television too.
I get Kirk's kind of tone pretty well I suppose, but I don't actually try and cop tones TBH. I get in the ball park with something I like at a similar gain style wiht all music I play. Often I will play something in a different tone to change it around anyway. I probably do that a lot.
The guitar and pups have a lot ot do with his tone, and I get the cut and the feedbackand the microphonic honks that EMG's produce all the time. I just gotta keep working on the playing.
Was getting MOP at speed with all downpicking last night for the first time in a while. Too much gym work in the last year had destroyed all my fast-twitch muscle, and I'm just getting it back.

MLC2006

lucylespian wrote:

Was getting MOP at speed with all downpicking last night for the first time in a while. Too much gym work in the last year had destroyed all my fast-twitch muscle, and I'm just getting it back.

yeah, I've just been starting on "Battery" which I've been putting off for awhile due to the speed and having just learned "Blackened" which is very fast. but so far, it's not that bad. it's fast, but it's pretty repetitive. the solo though appears to be monstrous.

lucylespian

MLC2006 wrote:

yeah, I've just been starting on "Battery" which I've been putting off for awhile due to the speed and having just learned "Blackened" which is very fast. but so far, it's not that bad. it's fast, but it's pretty repetitive. the solo though appears to be monstrous.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh !!

MOP solos are mostly too fast for me. I can play some of the slower ones, Orion, solo 1 and interlude from MOP, but teh faster ones kill me.
They are virtuoso speed. Maybe in my next life. I'm working on the lst one form Puppets, but it will be another year at least before I get that, if then.

There's always a tricky bit. My wife has a Metallica instruction DVD form drums, and it breaks down some of the Battery riffs in there. They are really fast and complex. The guitar part is simple by comparision, just a reckless gallop. She got a set of Ahead "Lars" sticks today, and promptly spilt her first drum head, 2 ply skins for her from now on.

I loaned my AJFA book a while ago, and judst got it back, so I haven't looked aat those songs for a while, except One which I know off by heart, except the tricky bit in the solo of course.

Actually, I think a lot of the better guitar on Rolling Stones that I like was actually Mick Taylor. Listening to Sticky Fingers a few days ago, and really enjoyed that. I read it was Taylor on a 'burst.

Pre

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

That's not really what I meant. Morello invented (or at least popularized and capitalized on) some really cool techniques - which was great. He deserves to be remembered for it. But that doesn't put him in the same leauge as Hendrix or Page (among others). They're remembered not only for the great music and amazing musicianship, but for influence.

If Morello would actually utilize his potential and venture outside of the same 5th and 7th fret cock rock and tired, fifteen year old tricks he could leave a real legacy.

Morello's written more than just "5th and 7th fret cock rock." While this is true with Rage, he really expanded musically with Audioslave. He does a lot of interesting and different things on the Audioslave albums. You also have to consider his acoustic stuff.

He's more than a one-trick pony.

DiRtyFranK38

Pre wrote:

Morello's written more than just "5th and 7th fret cock rock." While this is true with Rage, he really expanded musically with Audioslave. He does a lot of interesting and different things on the Audioslave albums. You also have to consider his acoustic stuff.

He's more than a one-trick pony.

i completely agree with you 100%, but i also can understand what pearl jam and toast is saying. tom morello is one of those love em or hate em, take it or leave it, kind of players. for me, he can do that same cock rock shit with wacky solos over and over and i will still think he is fantastic. whatever it is, it always sounds great. but i do agree with you. half of the people like us think he is genious and the other half think he is very repetitive and likes to make noises.