In your trial with bands......

Jam10 · November 2008

Do you find when going to band auditions you get more yes's or no's in making the band?

lucylespian · November 2008

I only ever did one audition. The band was still kinda forming, and I asked then for a list of songs to prepare, which they could not give me, so I didn't really have enough to offer. I did not have the skills to wing solos, so nothing happened. They actually asked me back the next week, but when I turned up the drummer and the singer had bailed, but no-one bothered to tell me, so I wasted a Saturday afternoon. I think that's about standard for musos.
I have learnt since that having a list of songs to prepare is a crucial test of organization of both the band and the auditionee. In future, I would not bother to turn up for an audition that badly organized.

Jam10 · November 2008

lucylespian wrote:

I only ever did one audition. The band was still kinda forming, and I asked then for a list of songs to prepare, which they could not give me, so I didn't really have enough to offer. I did not have the skills to wing solos, so nothing happened. They actually asked me back the next week, but when I turned up the drummer and the singer had bailed, but no-one bothered to tell me, so I wasted a Saturday afternoon. I think that's about standard for musos.
I have learnt since that having a list of songs to prepare is a crucial test of organization of both the band and the auditionee. In future, I would not bother to turn up for an audition that badly organized.

I totally agree with you. The last audition I went to was a complete joke. He didn't give me any songs at all. He played maybe about a minute of one of the tunes the band wrote and expected me to follow along and know the rhythm patterns. It was a total waste of time and the weirdest audition I have ever heard of or been to.

dcfaithful · November 2008

Jam10 wrote:

I totally agree with you. The last audition I went to was a complete joke. He didn't give me any songs at all. He played maybe about a minute of one of the tunes the band wrote and expected me to follow along and know the rhythm patterns. It was a total waste of time and the weirdest audition I have ever heard of or been to.

I have often found myself in awkward jam sessions as well, Utah has a strange brew of musicians that's for sure.

Julien · November 2008

I did 4 or 5 trials. Most of times, it work quite well and I receive a "yes". Certainly because I am a bassist, more hard to find for a band.
A few months ago I went for a trial and there as only the drummer. He thought he was the best drummer on earth. I didn't go back.
Then I tried with two other musicians (drummer + guitarist/singer) and it worked very well from the first minute. We improvised and managed quite quickly to make good jams. We're still together and hpe to make a few shows in the coming months.

Jam10 · November 2008

Julien wrote:

I did 4 or 5 trials. Most of times, it work quite well and I receive a "yes". Certainly because I am a bassist, more hard to find for a band.
A few months ago I went for a trial and there as only the drummer. He thought he was the best drummer on earth. I didn't go back.
Then I tried with two other musicians (drummer + guitarist/singer) and it worked very well from the first minute. We improvised and managed quite quickly to make good jams. We're still together and hpe to make a few shows in the coming months.

Congrats man. Hopefully you guys will continue to gel together and do some live shows and maybe even record an album.

exhausted · November 2008

lucylespian wrote:

They actually asked me back the next week, but when I turned up the drummer and the singer had bailed, but no-one bothered to tell me, so I wasted a Saturday afternoon. I think that's about standard for musos.

haha. totally my experience years ago too.

Julien · November 2008

Jam10 wrote:

Congrats man. Hopefully you guys will continue to gel together and do some live shows and maybe even record an album.

thanks !
we plan to maybe go one day in studio in one or two month(s) in order to have at least one track well recorded...

mfc2006 · November 2008

there was a band that i talked to before i formed my own. their music was great---really all over the place, which is kind of how my own music is. they were looking for a lead singer/guitarist. they sent me a demo & to lay down some vocals on it & i thought i did a good job. a few days after i sent it, i got a call saying that i wouldn't write any lyrics/melodies/vocal lines. the bassist insisted on being the songwriter and was a jerk about it. i just thought it was absurd to ask someone to come in and just sing & play chords...no creativity needed. so i passed. the rest of the band tried changing his mind, but i'd already moved on to form my own band by the time they called me.

fast forward to 3-4 months later & we're on a shared bill with 4 other bands, one of which was that band that i had been talking to. right before they were about to go on, their new lead singer & that same bassist got into a heated argument and the singer walked out. so they played the set w/o vocals. we were next up and i thanked him from the stage for forcing me into forming my own band, because i enjoy the music much more, etc, etc. that was one of our best shows. i bought that guy a beer afterwards & told him that he needs to open up to new ideas and stop being such a jerk.

he then said "f off" and walked away. 2 months later, their band broke up. it was a shame...because they really did play well together, but that guy's ego just ruined it.

ediger · November 2008

well, I will give you this warning based on my experiences and experiences of friends of mine.

A lot of the time when you join a band through an audition, you tend to feel a little separated from the rest of the band. Almost like you're just an employee. There's a lot of doing things their way. Playing in a band, or even just with other people is great experience and the best way to get better, so I say take any opportunity you have, but just keep that in mind.

Perhaps if you get accepted into one of these bands, start trying to set up some loose jam sessions with some friends. You'll find that everything tends to come a little more naturally. Personally, I've found that is the best way to form a band. Just jam out some covers and play around a little bit on some of your own riffs and if it's sounds like it has potential, work on it a bit.

ianvomsaal · November 2008

I usually mesh with most original rock bands - personality conflicts trump someone's playing ability (& I won’t/don't audition for cover bands).
It's getting difficult to find decent musicians these days that are really serious about "making it" in the music business, let alone play originals.
It's difficult to find people that want to play originals - too many people want to play covers in bars and try to look cool (look, I'm in a band).
It's becoming an uncreative, or should I say unprogressive world we live in - There are just too many people that would rather focus on other
people's expression and creativity than make their own - be them gutless, afraid, lazy, or just un-creative themselves (a poser in disguise)

ccpa · November 2008

My friends and I started our band. Only 'outside' player is the bassist. We auditioned 3. The most talented musician was not the best fit. The guy that liked the music we played and was interested in playing and learning our genre of music fit the bill. His personality also meshed.

Ian, I am interested in your definition of 'making it'-

Digital music (iPod) sales format has added a new twist to the market. When I was a kid, we bought albums; now you buy songs.

Digital music has also made it easier to get your stuff out to the public. Which is good for everyone as a whole but floods the market with crap (IMO). I semi agree with your unprogressive world comment. I don't know how old you are but I have to think you are not in your 20s anymore (and I'm right there with ya so that's not an insult by any means.). Music seems to 'progress' for the teen/early 20s crowd (IMO). That's not to say that more mature bands are not making awesome music (ala PJ). But music is marketed for a younger generation than where I am. Those of us in our 30s and up are not marketed to via trends anymore. We are marketed to via high ass priced tickets and reunions of our bands that take is back to our twenties. We already have our mindset as to what good music is. The bands that I see as 'making it' right now are just not my cup of tea. That's not to say they aren't talented or are not gifted songwriters in their own right. Its also does not appear to me that rock music is in style right now for the younger kids.

Some things in life are just a matter of timing and I think music is a huge one.

ianvomsaal · November 2008

ccpa wrote:

Ian, I am interested in your definition of 'making it'.

http://forums.pearljam.com/member.php?u=38417
to me "making it" = getting a major label to back you, a financed tour,
& regular rotation on a major radio station (public radio doesn't count).

exhausted · November 2008

ianvomsaal wrote:

http://forums.pearljam.com/member.php?u=38417
to me "making it" = getting a major label to back you, a financed tour,
& regular rotation on a major radio station (public radio doesn't count).

what about supporting oneself as an independent artist? i'm just curious having read so many interesting stories of debt etc. etc. associated with major labels deals etc. Jennifer Trynin's book etc.

ianvomsaal · December 2008

exhausted wrote:

what about supporting oneself as an independent artist? i'm just curious having read so many interesting stories of debt etc. etc. associated with major labels deals etc. Jennifer Trynin's book etc.

It's more difficult to "make it" as an independent artist, but if as an independent artist you can afford to record a top notch album, and support yourself and everyone else including promotion, ticket sales, venue/theatre/equipment rental, roadies, techs, and travel expenses on a big tour, and are still able to get very regular rotation on air, then great/sure you've "made it" (not impossible) - but you usually end up owing someone something - a successful grass-roots movement is nice to think about, but they happen even less frequently than a big label deal (but it's a nice idea, and something to shoot for) . . .

If you're with a bigger label, yes you'll be in debt from the very beginning (their business is to make money), but remember that bands never make $$$ on album/song sales these days anyway (all that money + goes to the label to recoup the album cost, big time promotion, payoffs to get you played on the radio, the executives paychecks, etc). The money a band makes these days comes from the touring & merchandising. The average Amphitheatre holds 19,000 people, and think about what you payed for tickets to that last PJ show (average ticket price, times 19,000 seats, times X number of shows, plus merchandise = $$$). A lot of it goes to pay the bills, but a lot also goes to the band (it's almost half & half). Why do you think a band does a World Tour - to make money. It's HARD, and most aren't doing it for their fans - it's how they make a living (plus they get off being on stage).

lucylespian · December 2008

exhausted wrote:

what about supporting oneself as an independent artist? i'm just curious having read so many interesting stories of debt etc. etc. associated with major labels deals etc. Jennifer Trynin's book etc.

I think that's the tricky bit. Also there is the probability effect to negotiate, ie, only a small percentage of potentials will actually "make it". The rest make up the other 99.9999999999% of the bell curve, inevitably.
Or these days you can be offered a "360 degree deal", which I think is industry code for getting screwed on tours and merch as well as album sales.

exhausted · December 2008

so, to put in it in other terms perhaps, what is success? is it the exposure or the ability to eat.

for instance, can one be an independent, perhaps not making a "top notch" album production wise, or a world tour with roadies etc. etc., but using the internet for exposure, not biting off more than you can chew etc. can one make a living without being a rock star?

i understand that's not "making it" in the context we're discussing but it's interesting to wonder about. but i suppose the vast majority of people in that category still have conventional jobs as well.

oh well, when i get laid off here this week i'm going to make it big as an elvis costello impersonator.

lucylespian · December 2008

exhausted wrote:

so, to put in it in other terms perhaps, what is success? is it the exposure or the ability to eat.

for instance, can one be an independent, perhaps not making a "top notch" album production wise, or a world tour with roadies etc. etc., but using the internet for exposure, not biting off more than you can chew etc. can one make a living without being a rock star?

i understand that's not "making it" in the context we're discussing but it's interesting to wonder about. but i suppose the vast majority of people in that category still have conventional jobs as well.

oh well, when i get laid off here this week i'm going to make it big as an elvis costello impersonator.

Good question !
I think teh whole cocept of "rock-star" is incredibly harmful to the whole music scene. It funnels so much money into one act, and away frrom everyone else. It polarises the effort of the big labels onto backing a minute number of artists, and also takes a lot of varitey away. Everyone is so obsessed with finding or being the next Britney or Robbie, that no-one is really looking at quality or diversity. You also get producers producuing formula bands like the Pussy Cat Dolls etc, and even fewer fine artists get a go at the cherry. There is also no longevity to super fame. So, yeah, tortoise over the hare in this race, I think.

who's_pearljam? · December 2008

exhausted wrote:

so, to put in it in other terms perhaps, what is success? is it the exposure or the ability to eat.

for instance, can one be an independent, perhaps not making a "top notch" album production wise, or a world tour with roadies etc. etc., but using the internet for exposure, not biting off more than you can chew etc. can one make a living without being a rock star?

i understand that's not "making it" in the context we're discussing but it's interesting to wonder about. but i suppose the vast majority of people in that category still have conventional jobs as well.

oh well, when i get laid off here this week i'm going to make it big as an elvis costello impersonator.

Haha, well, someone just told me I look like Jan Michael Vincent. I have to look that one up to see what the hell that means. Maybe we could do a tour! Nobody's buying houses for me to inspect, might as well go for the buck! You've got the Tele for Elvis. Do you have a black suit?

The question you ask is a major subject for another thread, too! What constitutes success?

I think the last few years are a turning point in the world of music. The independent musician DOES have the capacity to make a good sounding CD and make a living without a record company, but they need the creativity and business acumen to figure out a way to do it.
I spent my years in the biz playing guitar on the road with some pretty major, and some pretty crappy bands, having a record contract with big labels who provided a living wage to do that, but at the same time had people hand out barbiturates to sleep on the bus, and amphetamines to wake up for the show. This was back in the 70's and went into the 80's and may well still go on. I think for the most part, the major labels never were HUGELY interested in the music, but more making a profit from it. I don't begrudge them that because that's what business is, but there is a nostalgic memory that record companies were this nurturing entity to help out bands in the old days.

I have a friend who's this huge 7 foot scary looking dude who used to travel with Led Zeppelin in the 70's. He carried a gun and spent his time looking scary to collect the money for the gigs. Gigs like Madison Square Garden, where the promotors tried to rip off the bands. I mean, really, Led Zeppelin had to battle a gig like MSG for their pay. Same as the local band that has to wait till 3:00 am for their pay in a club!

I think that the indie musician has to use to use the same creativity that they use to make music to make a living if that's what they want to do.
You CAN do it yourself. Whoever figures out a way to harness the internet to work their art is at a great advantage.

corduroid · December 2008

lucylespian wrote:

I only ever did one audition. The band was still kinda forming, and I asked then for a list of songs to prepare, which they could not give me, so I didn't really have enough to offer. I did not have the skills to wing solos, so nothing happened. They actually asked me back the next week, but when I turned up the drummer and the singer had bailed, but no-one bothered to tell me, so I wasted a Saturday afternoon. I think that's about standard for musos.
I have learnt since that having a list of songs to prepare is a crucial test of organization of both the band and the auditionee. In future, I would not bother to turn up for an audition that badly organized.

I had totally similar experience last month ~ showing up and it was really just one guy who had a lot of ideas, "knew a drummer and an awesome bass player" but in reality just had a handful of original lyrics that he sang to me, one after the other

We didn't connect, it didn't go well, and I bailed :(

At first I was bummed because we didn't 'click', there wasn't that magical musical nirvana going on ... but in hindsight, it's actually made me feel better about myself as a musician. I learned a bit about my comfort level and what I have the courage to try, I loved the rhythms I threw out there, and it wasn't me so much as there was just very little there.

Good luck to ya, we keep on growing

Django · December 2008

ianvomsaal wrote:

IThere are just too many people that would rather focus on other people's expression and creativity than make their own - be them gutless, afraid, lazy, or just un-creative themselves (a poser in disguise)

So what is that track on your myspace?

Very well play by the way, but.....

In your trial with bands......

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