Question about Amps

StickmanJam · January 2007

I'm a beginner guitar player, and I bought a Fender Squier, pretty much the beginners guitar, and it comes with a pretty basic amps with a clean sound and distorted, but that's it.

I'm looking to buy a better one, so what effects should I look into to have that PJ sound? That classic sound, like Corduroy, Hail Hail, Life Wasted, stuff like that. I've been looking trough a lot online that feature lots of different effects, but was wondering if some guitar players on here could point me in the rigiht direction. Thanks a lot!

keeponrockin · January 2007

Well, how much are you willing to spend?

StickmanJam · January 2007

well right now Id like to keep it below $250

sennin · January 2007

If you're looking for a starter amp with some decent effect to play with, check out the Vox Valvetronix amps. A little 15w or 30w would be great, it sounds decent and has a bunch of "effects".

...But, I'm not sure you'll be able to recreate that definite "PJ sound" with it. I think you'd have to look for a higher quality amp....and get some effects pedals....and possibly a new guitar....which means more $$.

StickmanJam · January 2007

sennin wrote:

If you're looking for a starter amp with some decent effect to play with, check out the Vox Valvetronix amps. A little 15w or 30w would be great, it sounds decent and has a bunch of "effects".

...But, I'm not sure you'll be able to recreate that definite "PJ sound" with it. I think you'd have to look for a higher quality amp....and get some effects pedals....and possibly a new guitar....which means more $$.

thanks, do u know off hand how much that amps is? And does it also have a good "acoustic" channel as well, because I love playing in clean tone as well.

IDgotI · January 2007

Yeah, that's a tall order. The "Pearl Jam" sound is the sound of three guitar players with three different rigs, and three different sets of nearly bottomless pockets.

If you are just starting out I'd recommend you focus less on trying to get a 'specific' sound... and first learn more about what kinds of sounds are out there. Then start exploring those by trying things out at music stores... and then when you have an idea what general sounds you are after, start researching the best bang for buck examples that you can afford.

As a starter consider amps. There are several different basic designs. First off there are tube amps, and there are solid state amps. The pearl jam sound tends to involve tube amps... but then you want to find out what KIND of tube amps? Also, the general speaker / cabinet layout comes into play. A 1x12 means one 12" wide speaker in a cabinet. A 4x10 means four drivers that are 10" wide each.

As far as effects are concerned, again, there are loads and loads of options, and saying you want the pearl jam sound is too vague since mike, stone, and ed all have their own effects.

Not only that but the effects can varry from album to album. The Ludwig Univibe is a big staple on 'Binaural', not so much on the other albums.

Personally I think the main ingerdient to the pearl jam guitar sound, is the sound of three guys who LOVE the sounds they are getting. So if you manage to build a rig, where you love YOUR sound, I think you will be much farther along then if you buy lots of pedals and gear you don't know how to use, but which were highly recommended by other people.

Take time, start reading, and try things out at stores without necessarily planning to buy anything for a while. Take notes, remember what you liked, and then go back and try those things out again to see if they hold up after a few weeks.

Take your time, esspecially if your funds are limited. Remember EVERY guitar player has gone down this path. Half the fun is in the journey. Take time to discover what sounds are out there, and don't be in too much of a rush to just copy anyone else's rig. Take time to learn how to build your own.

Them's my two cents... others will have different ideas. But best of luck to you however you go.

sennin · January 2007

StickmanJam wrote:

thanks, do u know off hand how much that amps is? And does it also have a good "acoustic" channel as well, because I love playing in clean tone as well.

Here's a link to a site that has all kinds of user settings for those amps.

http://www.valvetronix.net/valvetronix/DA15/AD15-30-50-100/model_1_date_1.html

Check this link out for prices......

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Vox-Valvetronix-AD15VT-15W-Guitar-Combo?sku=481958&src=3SOSWXXA

StickmanJam · January 2007

IDgotI wrote:

Yeah, that's a tall order. The "Pearl Jam" sound is the sound of three guitar players with three different rigs, and three different sets of nearly bottomless pockets.

If you are just starting out I'd recommend you focus less on trying to get a 'specific' sound... and first learn more about what kinds of sounds are out there. Then start exploring those by trying things out at music stores... and then when you have an idea what general sounds you are after, start researching the best bang for buck examples that you can afford.

As a starter consider amps. There are several different basic designs. First off there are tube amps, and there are solid state amps. The pearl jam sound tends to involve tube amps... but then you want to find out what KIND of tube amps? Also, the general speaker / cabinet layout comes into play. A 1x12 means one 12" wide speaker in a cabinet. A 4x10 means four drivers that are 10" wide each.

As far as effects are concerned, again, there are loads and loads of options, and saying you want the pearl jam sound is too vague since mike, stone, and ed all have their own effects.

Not only that but the effects can varry from album to album. The Ludwig Univibe is a big staple on 'Binaural', not so much on the other albums.

Personally I think the main ingerdient to the pearl jam guitar sound, is the sound of three guys who LOVE the sounds they are getting. So if you manage to build a rig, where you love YOUR sound, I think you will be much farther along then if you buy lots of pedals and gear you don't know how to use, but which were highly recommended by other people.

Take time, start reading, and try things out at stores without necessarily planning to buy anything for a while. Take notes, remember what you liked, and then go back and try those things out again to see if they hold up after a few weeks.

Take your time, esspecially if your funds are limited. Remember EVERY guitar player has gone down this path. Half the fun is in the journey. Take time to discover what sounds are out there, and don't be in too much of a rush to just copy anyone else's rig. Take time to learn how to build your own.

Them's my two cents... others will have different ideas. But best of luck to you however you go.

thanks a lot. I was checking out an amps on Sam Ash's website, and maybe you could let me know how you feel about it.

http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?ItemPos=5&TempID=6&DepartmentID=1&STRID=105758&CategorySubID=132&CategoryID=132&BrandID=1349&CategorySubPriceRangeID=0&pagesize=10&Method=3&PriceRangeID=0&SortMethod=&SearchPhrase=&Contains=&Search_Type=Department&GroupCode=&categorysubsearch=true

Seems to have a lot of effects, seem like a good start?

sennin · January 2007

StickmanJam wrote:

thanks a lot. I was checking out an amps on Sam Ash's website, and maybe you could let me know how you feel about it.

http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?ItemPos=5&TempID=6&DepartmentID=1&STRID=105758&CategorySubID=132&CategoryID=132&BrandID=1349&CategorySubPriceRangeID=0&pagesize=10&Method=3&PriceRangeID=0&SortMethod=&SearchPhrase=&Contains=&Search_Type=Department&GroupCode=&categorysubsearch=true

Seems to have a lot of effects, seem like a good start?

That's a nice amp....but it's also $1200.

IDgotI · January 2007

I don't know that amp specifically. I'm sure it's ... *ok*.

But why settle for *ok*?

Remember, an amp is really and truly HALF of the guitar sound... actually... maybe it's more like 60% with the the guitar counting for 20% and the effects for 20%...

Eeek. I'm going to get my but kicked on the thread for trying to break it out into percentages. >>>"IDgotI is CRAZY!!! it 22.5% effects... 19.18% guitar..."

Anyway... The amp is a massive part of the sound.

I really think the best thing you can do now is go TRY that amp... then TRY every other amp in the store that you think you might be able to afford... and then try your neighbor's amp... and your friends'.

For now you have the amp that came with your squire as a beat around amp right?

So you have something to go home to as you learn.

Take some time and find out what amp clicks w. YOU.

That amp might be the thing that makes me drop my jaw, and come alive as a player... but it might leave you uninspired... or vice versa.

Here... I have two main amps. I use a roland JC 120 *NOT* a Pearl Jam amp btw... and a Crate VC 30. I love them. The Roland is a pretty established *famous* amp. The Crate not so much. But they both just do something for me.

The trick is to find an amp that does something for you.

Marshal stacks do it for some people. Fender Princetons do it for other people.

The trick isn't to try to match yourself up with a piece of gear... it's to find a piece of gear that matches YOU... and inspires you and your playing.

Try stuff out. Don't just bring something home that gets great reviews from other people. It might not be the right thing for you. Remember a lot of guitarists out there make amps, or effects famous that no one else was using at the time. Then everyone runs out to buy them, but can't make anything memorable with them.

The trick is for a player to be inspired by his gear. You can't look in a catalogue and decide what will inspire you... and try as you might... you aren't going to be inspired by how something LOOKS for more than a day or two.

You need to hear things... and compare. Take time. The squire amp will be there while you save your money, and do your research.

IDgotI · January 2007

Here... more for you to consider.

That amp is a 1x12.

1x12's are great for recording and micing. Neil Young's main amp is a vintage Fender Deluxe 1x12. It's also only about 12 Watts. He mic's it and runs it through the house system. The advantage of it being 12 Watts is that it's easy to get it to distort. Distortion happens when you push the amp to it's power limit.

The amp you provided the link for is a 60 Watt amp. That means it will play clean and loud in almost any room, or mid sized room situation. If you want it to distort in a crazy rock and roll (Neil Young) sort of way though, you will need to push it to the point where the amp is at it's power limit.

Now... to add to all of this... there is a statistic called "Driver efficiency"... or how effectively the speaker uses the amp power. If you have a really low "Driver efficency" rating on one 25 watt amp, and a really high "Driver efficency" rating on another 25 watt amp, the low rated one will sound a LOT quieter than the other. So there is another measurement here to consider.

But in most cases a 60 watt amp will get loud enough to fill a small club before it starts to distort.... which means if you are looking for rock god distortion... and you are planning to play in an appartment or crowded neighborhood, you are more likely to meet your local police officer with this amp before you meet the tone of Mike or Stone.

So, anyway, to sum up... there are just WAY to many factors to consider to figure this out online, or by reading a catalogue. Fortunately your ears and common sense will probably put all of this together for you if you try things out.

Turn the amp up to a volume you think you will be able to get away with in your normal practice space... and then see if it works for you.

If you are lucky, and have a great rehearsal space, then this Fender might be perfect for you. If you share your living space with others, though, and you want a killer tube distorted sound, you might actually WANT a weaker amp.

exhausted · January 2007

we're dealing with a $250 budget here.

http://www.music123.com/VOX-AD30VT-Guitar-Combo-Amp-i126913.music

http://www.music123.com/Epiphone-Valve-Special-Guitar-Combo-Amp-i156943.music

keeponrockin · January 2007

Look for a used Blues Junior and grab a DS-1 or Tubescreamer to drive it.

Pacomc79 · January 2007

in the 250 dollar range, I don't know that there is an amp on the market right now that sounds much better than the vox valvetronix stuff. They did very well on the models and the closed back helps the bass response a bit. It's also got a power reduction feature and headphone jack, which is nice for being at home and not annoying people.

In the budget tube amp range Fender Pro Jr, Ampeg Jet, Peavy Delta Blues (2x10) etc are all nice amps, but you have to try before you buy and even 15 watts can be too loud at times especially if they have a very efficient speaker. Just take your time, play everything and enjoy yourself doing it, once you figure out what different technologies and circuits and speakers do you start to learn how to get that sound in your head out of whatever rig you manage to have. There are a lot of ways to achieve happiness.

If I haven't done so already welcome to IDgotI, I'm really enjoying reading your advice man it's spot on.

sennin · January 2007

I own a Valvetronix AD15VT. It's a great little practice amp.

My only problem with it is changing the effects. It takes a long time to switch to a different "sound". You'll play a song, then want to play something else, and you have to fiddle with the amp for 5 minutes, becuase there's only so many songs I know that are massively distorted.

That's the main reason why I bought a Hotrod Deluxe. It gave me a tube drive sound I liked, broke up well....but now I think it's a little too much amp for me....too damm loud for my living space! Altough I have a large space that I can practice at if I wanted.

Maybe I should have gone with a Blues Jr.

edpearson · January 2007

keeponrockin wrote:

Look for a used Blues Junior and grab a DS-1 or Tubescreamer to drive it.

I was going to suggest the same thing. A nice alternative to the Blues Jr. is a Traynor YCV-20 which I picked up off of Craigslist for about $250. Neither of these amps comes with built-in effects (the Traynor does have an effects loop, however). I'd start out slow on the effects path. The Boss DS-1 (distortion) is very affordable and then there's the Ibanez Tubescreamer (TS-808 or TS-9). Have fun doing the research on the Tubescreamer as it's one of the most hyped pedals. SRV actually used two of these on stage and McCready also uses one. Just get the TS-9 as it's more affordable and some say it's even better than the TS-808. All of these pedals are popular for being "modded" to really make them special by the way. When you get more cash, look into a wah pedal (less than $75 used), a Vibe pedal (McCready has used several so do your research on this one, too as they aren't exactly cheap -- about $200 used???), and a delay (McCready uses a Line 6 DL-4 which is turning into one of the most popular delay stompboxes out there -- about $175 used).

The fun is just beginning! And welcome to the wonderful world of guitars! Next to collecting automobiles, it's probably the most expensive hobby I can think of.

keeponrockin · January 2007

I forgot about the Traynor (and I play the YCV80!), ya, I would reccomend the Traynor, as the distortion channel is great as well.

lucylespian · January 2007

edpearson wrote:

The fun is just beginning! And welcome to the wonderful world of guitars! Next to collecting automobiles, it's probably the most expensive hobby I can think of.

Holy shit man, you've never owned a horse then have you, or gone racing ANYTHING !!
The best thing about collecting guitars is they are really very cheap to own once you have them. Zero running cost !! They just sit around looking beautiful and universal fittings means that everything works together. None of that "oh, this doesn't fit with that cos they changed the wingnut size", just 1/4" jacks all round.
And no govt charges every year !!
I've had pretty much every hobby there is and guitars are the cheapest of them all, they last decades, never go out of style unless they are total crap and can be handed down to your kids.
It is truly a wonderful world !!

run_into_the_rain · January 2007

I really like vox gear. I got a vox tonelab se and it makes all kinds of sounds. I know your looking for an amp but anyways, if you try this out in a shop you might be frusterated by how hard it is to figure out. Once you get it home it starts to come to you. It still takes a week to figure it all out but it is amazing. By the way it feels like a tube amp because it is. The tonelab series uses a 12ax7 preamp. The SE version is about $500

Novawind · January 2007

sennin wrote:

That's the main reason why I bought a Hotrod Deluxe. It gave me a tube drive sound I liked, broke up well....but now I think it's a little too much amp for me....too damm loud for my living space! Altough I have a large space that I can practice at if I wanted.

Maybe I should have gone with a Blues Jr.

I hear you. I've already gotten a couple noise complaints on my Traynor. We should both probably look at picking up an attenuator (have you checked out a Weber MiniMass? It's like $100 for a box that handles up to 50W, way cheaper than THD or Gibson).

sennin · January 2007

Novawind wrote:

I hear you. I've already gotten a couple noise complaints on my Traynor. We should both probably look at picking up an attenuator (have you checked out a Weber MiniMass? It's like $100 for a box that handles up to 50W, way cheaper than THD or Gibson).

I just ordered a Minimass....should be here next week. My neighbors will be happy!

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