Silly Question about earplugs

celluloid_love · January 2005

I play in a band (have for over 2 years now), and my parents encourage me to wear earplugs whenever we rehearse (I actually have a pair of $50 high quality plugs), and I'm not sure if it's necessary to wear them. The only reason I wouldn't wear them is because it sort of detracts from the fun of it all.

Anyway, the reason I am asking this question, is because you see all these bands today, and people like the Rolling Stones, who have been playing for many many many years, and they can still hear.

I want to know if (a) I or my parents are too paranoid about the hearing loss thing or (b) I should wear them whenever we rehearse.

Thanks for your help in advance.

exhausted · January 2005

wear them.

bohemianutopist · January 2005

pete townshend is going deaf in one ear...

i agree with exhausted. especially if you practice often and/or play really loud.

who's_pearljam? · January 2005

exhausted wrote:

wear them.

I've been a guitar player all my life and I know a lot of others with hearing loss and tinnitus (Constant ear ringing and headaches)

Every musician that's been playing for a long time wears them now.

Every musician that's been playing for a long time wishes they were wearing them a long time ago, when they didn't think they them.

It doesn't seem like you need them when you're young, but it does catch up.
I wear them to concerts, too.

Actually even classical musicians are aware of this, too, as the high frequencies are what you lose first. So, for instance, violinists with that violin right at ear level can suffer from hearing loss, too!

iluvcats · January 2005

i wear them at concerts....i wish i would have worn them 20 years ago when i used to go to a college bar with bands several times a week. the noises in my ears/head were so bad, i could hardly go to sleep at night.

mccreadyisgod · January 2005

Here's a good guide:

At 85 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 8 hours.
At 88 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 4 hours.
At 91 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 2 hours.
At 94 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 1 hour.
At 97 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 30 minutes.
At 100 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 15 minutes.
At 103 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 7.5 minutes.
At 106 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 4 minutes.
At 109 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 2 minutes.
At 112 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 1 minute.

For reference, a typical rock concert (like a Pearl Jam show) will run between 110 and 130 dB. A club show will run about 100-120 dB. Your band practices are likely at around 80-100 dB.

So, if you go to a Pearl Jam concert and wear 30 dB of hearing protection, you will extend your safe listening time from less than a minute to about 2 hours (if they average 120 dB). You can extend your band's practice time from 30 minutes to as long as you want. I always have a pair of 28 dB plugs in my pocket, so if I'm ever in a place that has loud, lasting noise (usually a club or bar band) I'm ready.

There are two other advantages to wearing earplugs... 1) It helps clear up the sound. Because your ears aren't being overwhelmed by painful noises, they are better able to listen and pick out detail. If you're ever at a concert, try listening to the first song or two without earplugs, then put your plugs in, and see if you can hear the difference. I do this anyways, because it really is a little cooler to hear it full-volume, just not for the whole show. 2) It can really help a singer hear him/herself, because the sound of your voice will travel through the bones of your skull into your ear, and that sound isn't being overridden by external noise (this is the reason your voice sounds different on a recording compared to how you think you sound).

Ultimately, it's up to you how much you want to protect your ears. I'm a sound engineer for both live sound and recording, so my ears are the single most important thing I have. It is VERY important for me to keep my hearing as undamaged as possible. So, when I jam with other musicians, or go to a concert, I'm wearing my earplugs.

One final note: in-ear-monitors (IEM's) provide a lot of advantages, and hearing protection is one of them. They also help eliminate feedback, and provide a much clearer monitor mix compared to floor wedges. They're expensive ($400 for a decent set, and they go way up from there) but they're worth the investment. If you're serious about a career as a performing musician, they're not a bad way to go. Just something to keep in mind for the future.

celluloid_love · January 2005

thank you very very much Mccreadyisgod.

Your responses are always detailed and extremely helpful

I will make sure I wear the plugs whenever we play

one more question

is a rehearsal once a week "often"?

justam · January 2005

It's not a silly question.

I like MIG's response.

OfTheGirl · January 2005

I went to a club show (Muse) that was really, really loud and forgot my earplugs. I don't usually wear them, but I do usually have them, just in case. Anyhoo, I literally could not hear out of my left ear for 3 days, and my right ear for the better part of 24 hours. And I had the tinnitus thing going on where the ringing in my ears was so loud that it kept me awake for 2 nights. I was terrified. As a serious music fan, I started to feel like there was nothing left to live for, since I couldn't hear anything.

I was so relieved when I could finally hear again and I will NEVER let that happen again. I even wore earplugs to the 3 PJ shows I attended in 2004. I don't like it, really, but I think it's worth it.

Just my 2 cents.

P.S. Almost any music biz person you see at shows is wearing them- so you know all the cool people are wearing them

who's_pearljam? · January 2005

A couple of things on the subject, too.

Get the right earplugs. If you get the cheap disposable earplugs, you won't enjoy the music as much. If you love going to shows, go to a music store and get a set of musician's plugs. They cost more, $15 - 150 bucks, but they are reusable. They filter out the sound more evenly, so you can actually hear the music, but at a more tolerable level. I can hear people talking better in a noisy club with my earplugs on!

Watch out when you crank up your walkman/ portable music/ ipod headphones. Especially if your in a loud environment, and the phones are cranked up. That can be as damaging as a rock show, but more so if you have them on for a long time.

A quick and dirty test.
Put your car radio on a talk show and turn it down to the lowest volume that you can understand words on. Go rock out at the show. Get back in your car and try to hear the words on the radio.

:eek:

You can't can you!

Your hearing will recover,,, but a little less each time. You only get so many times you can do that, as it's progressive.

Glaswegian · January 2005

mccreadyisgod wrote:

At 85 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 8 hours.
At 88 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 4 hours.
At 91 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 2 hours.
At 94 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 1 hour.
At 97 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 30 minutes.
At 100 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 15 minutes.
At 103 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 7.5 minutes.
At 106 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 4 minutes.
At 109 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 2 minutes.
At 112 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 1 minute.

Goodness that's a bit of an eye opener. I'd never thought about it before but I suppose I really should. So the majority of bands we see on stage are fecking up their hearing every single time they play? Nasty. I love nothing more than being in a wee room and playing at rediculous volumes as well..

mccreadyisgod · January 2005

Glaswegian wrote:

So the majority of bands we see on stage are fecking up their hearing every single time they play? Nasty.

The worst part is, all those musicians who've been on really loud stages need it to be louder and louder as the years go by, so they just keep adding more and more damage...

The smart ones are switching to IEM's. They kinda suck for a musician the same way earplugs suck for people in the audience, but if your hearing is important, you'll get by.

Like who's_pearljam? said, there are better earplugs out there. I usually carry around cheapies, because I have a tendancy to lose them... but if you care to spend a little more and take good care of them, you can get a nice set of plugs that will filter the noise more evenly (cheap plugs tend to work more in the high-range frequencies, so they make things sound muffled, not just quieter).

An interesting side-note: I read an article in an audio engineering magazine that showed that people who listen to really loud noises for an extended period of time will experience an endorphin rush. The reason is, your body reacts to the damage to your ears by releasing endorphins... so when you go to a really loud concert, and when you leave you feel great, some of that is a function of your body reacting to the damage in your ears. You're riding on a wave of painkillers.

I'd rather keep my ears safe, and have a beer.

All Those Yesterdays · January 2005

Just wear them its not worth it. I have problems sleeping at night or even get woke up in the middle of the night because of ringing. And there is nothign I can do about it because I was too hard headed 10 years ago! Now I regret it.

samick · January 2005

bohemianutopist wrote:

pete townshend is going deaf in one ear...

i agree with exhausted. especially if you practice often and/or play really loud.

Wasn't that due to an exploding kick drum that exploded at point blank range.............either way def wear them...............

overstand · January 2005

mccreadyisgod wrote:

Here's a good guide:

At 85 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 8 hours.
At 88 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 4 hours.
At 91 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 2 hours.
At 94 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 1 hour.
At 97 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 30 minutes.
At 100 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 15 minutes.
At 103 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 7.5 minutes.
At 106 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 4 minutes.
At 109 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 2 minutes.
At 112 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 1 minute.

For reference, a typical rock concert (like a Pearl Jam show) will run between 110 and 130 dB. A club show will run about 100-120 dB. Your band practices are likely at around 80-100 dB.

So, if you go to a Pearl Jam concert and wear 30 dB of hearing protection, you will extend your safe listening time from less than a minute to about 2 hours (if they average 120 dB). You can extend your band's practice time from 30 minutes to as long as you want. I always have a pair of 28 dB plugs in my pocket, so if I'm ever in a place that has loud, lasting noise (usually a club or bar band) I'm ready.

There are two other advantages to wearing earplugs... 1) It helps clear up the sound. Because your ears aren't being overwhelmed by painful noises, they are better able to listen and pick out detail. If you're ever at a concert, try listening to the first song or two without earplugs, then put your plugs in, and see if you can hear the difference. I do this anyways, because it really is a little cooler to hear it full-volume, just not for the whole show. 2) It can really help a singer hear him/herself, because the sound of your voice will travel through the bones of your skull into your ear, and that sound isn't being overridden by external noise (this is the reason your voice sounds different on a recording compared to how you think you sound).

Ultimately, it's up to you how much you want to protect your ears. I'm a sound engineer for both live sound and recording, so my ears are the single most important thing I have. It is VERY important for me to keep my hearing as undamaged as possible. So, when I jam with other musicians, or go to a concert, I'm wearing my earplugs.

One final note: in-ear-monitors (IEM's) provide a lot of advantages, and hearing protection is one of them. They also help eliminate feedback, and provide a much clearer monitor mix compared to floor wedges. They're expensive ($400 for a decent set, and they go way up from there) but they're worth the investment. If you're serious about a career as a performing musician, they're not a bad way to go. Just something to keep in mind for the future.

This is a well put together post with lot's of information. I have some slightly differing data, but they are from a somewhat dated publication (1997). The point is obvious however.

The point is yes, make every effort to wear some hearing protection to preserve your hearing in the years to come.

In short, as mccreadyisgod shows us vividly, there are two ingredients in effect that make noises toxic 1. the decible level (volume) and 2. the amount of time you are exposed.

Notes: Be aware that any noise over 85dB HL for more than 15 minutes can be potentially toxic. Also, most earplugs that are over the counter can only attenuate 20 to 30 dB.....ideally. So some noise is going to be so loud that even earplugs won't help for very long.

M. Clarke, MS, CCC/A (Audiologist)

nick1977 · January 2005

If you only play or go to concerts only occasionally, it is probalby not necessary. However, if you are in a band that rehearses alot and play alot of shows, or if you go to alot of concerts, wear them. Extended exposure to loud noises causes severe damage to the ear over time.

My father in law was a farmer, and can no longer hear because of exposure to the constant sound of a tractor or combine engine. If that does damage to the ear, loud music at concerts and rehearsals can only do more damage.

It will catch up with you in the long run. So, wear them. You will be glad when you are 40 or 50 years old.

gerst31 · January 2005

So do the members of Pearl Jam wear ear plugs, I've never noticed before? If not they must be killing their ears with the amount of shows they do.

The last show I went to, Reading, killed my ears, I'll never go to a show without earplugs again. It was way too loud, uneccesary in my eyes. Kind of pissed me off.

nick1977 · January 2005

http://store.yahoo.com/earplugstore/profmusearpl.html

These types of earplugs do not reduce sound quality, but just volume...Ideal for concerts and musicians.

who's_pearljam? · January 2005

gerst31 wrote:

So do the members of Pearl Jam wear ear plugs, I've never noticed before? If not they must be killing their ears with the amount of shows they do.

The last show I went to, Reading, killed my ears, I'll never go to a show without earplugs again. It was way too loud, uneccesary in my eyes. Kind of pissed me off.

I was at the Reading show, and you're right. It was way loud. Maybe because it was a small venue, but it was really shrill sounding to me.
(At least I can STILL hear some of the high notes!

)

Concerts aren't a loud as they used to be, though, because the sound systems are better and clearer sounding.
Old Who, Stones, Zeppelin concerts, ,,,,,Whew!
The loudest I think I remember is Jefferson Airplane. The crowd was standing with their hands over their ears most of the show. The band was standing in front of these glass like booths to deflect the stage sound.

Nowadays, too, the stage volume isn't as loud as it used to be, because monitors are better, and the PA is in front of the band, but it's still loud.

I don't know if PJ wears earplugs or not. The Grateful Dead used to play 290 shows a year, though. That must have been an eardrum rippler!

mccreadyisgod · January 2005

gerst31 wrote:

So do the members of Pearl Jam wear ear plugs, I've never noticed before? If not they must be killing their ears with the amount of shows they do.

The last show I went to, Reading, killed my ears, I'll never go to a show without earplugs again. It was way too loud, uneccesary in my eyes. Kind of pissed me off.

Their show here in Missoula was louder than fuck, too... I had my 28 dB plugs in, and it was still too loud! The show I was at in Denver wasn't nearly as bad. I think they just rock the smaller rooms a little harder, for some reason.

As far as the guys in PJ, I don't think the stage volume is too terribly bad... Just because it's loud in the audience doesn't mean it's that bad on stage. I have a feeling that Eddie gets blasted a bit, though... have you SEEN how many monitors he has in front and back of him? What a nightmare...

celluloid_love · January 2005

nick,

those are the ones I have

they're very effective, I recommend them to anyone

Silly Question about earplugs

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