Silly Question about earplugs
celluloid_love
Posts: 62
I play in a band (have for over 2 years now), and my parents encourage me to wear earplugs whenever we rehearse (I actually have a pair of $50 high quality plugs), and I'm not sure if it's necessary to wear them. The only reason I wouldn't wear them is because it sort of detracts from the fun of it all.
Anyway, the reason I am asking this question, is because you see all these bands today, and people like the Rolling Stones, who have been playing for many many many years, and they can still hear.
I want to know if (a) I or my parents are too paranoid about the hearing loss thing or (b) I should wear them whenever we rehearse.
Thanks for your help in advance.
Anyway, the reason I am asking this question, is because you see all these bands today, and people like the Rolling Stones, who have been playing for many many many years, and they can still hear.
I want to know if (a) I or my parents are too paranoid about the hearing loss thing or (b) I should wear them whenever we rehearse.
Thanks for your help in advance.
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i agree with exhausted. especially if you practice often and/or play really loud.
I've been a guitar player all my life and I know a lot of others with hearing loss and tinnitus (Constant ear ringing and headaches)
Every musician that's been playing for a long time wears them now.
Every musician that's been playing for a long time wishes they were wearing them a long time ago, when they didn't think they them.
It doesn't seem like you need them when you're young, but it does catch up.
I wear them to concerts, too.
Actually even classical musicians are aware of this, too, as the high frequencies are what you lose first. So, for instance, violinists with that violin right at ear level can suffer from hearing loss, too!
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At 85 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 8 hours.
At 88 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 4 hours.
At 91 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 2 hours.
At 94 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 1 hour.
At 97 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 30 minutes.
At 100 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 15 minutes.
At 103 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 7.5 minutes.
At 106 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 4 minutes.
At 109 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 2 minutes.
At 112 dB, you will begin to experience damage after 1 minute.
For reference, a typical rock concert (like a Pearl Jam show) will run between 110 and 130 dB. A club show will run about 100-120 dB. Your band practices are likely at around 80-100 dB.
So, if you go to a Pearl Jam concert and wear 30 dB of hearing protection, you will extend your safe listening time from less than a minute to about 2 hours (if they average 120 dB). You can extend your band's practice time from 30 minutes to as long as you want. I always have a pair of 28 dB plugs in my pocket, so if I'm ever in a place that has loud, lasting noise (usually a club or bar band) I'm ready.
There are two other advantages to wearing earplugs... 1) It helps clear up the sound. Because your ears aren't being overwhelmed by painful noises, they are better able to listen and pick out detail. If you're ever at a concert, try listening to the first song or two without earplugs, then put your plugs in, and see if you can hear the difference. I do this anyways, because it really is a little cooler to hear it full-volume, just not for the whole show. 2) It can really help a singer hear him/herself, because the sound of your voice will travel through the bones of your skull into your ear, and that sound isn't being overridden by external noise (this is the reason your voice sounds different on a recording compared to how you think you sound).
Ultimately, it's up to you how much you want to protect your ears. I'm a sound engineer for both live sound and recording, so my ears are the single most important thing I have. It is VERY important for me to keep my hearing as undamaged as possible. So, when I jam with other musicians, or go to a concert, I'm wearing my earplugs.
One final note: in-ear-monitors (IEM's) provide a lot of advantages, and hearing protection is one of them. They also help eliminate feedback, and provide a much clearer monitor mix compared to floor wedges. They're expensive ($400 for a decent set, and they go way up from there) but they're worth the investment. If you're serious about a career as a performing musician, they're not a bad way to go. Just something to keep in mind for the future.
Your responses are always detailed and extremely helpful
I will make sure I wear the plugs whenever we play
one more question
is a rehearsal once a week "often"?
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I like MIG's response.
I was so relieved when I could finally hear again and I will NEVER let that happen again. I even wore earplugs to the 3 PJ shows I attended in 2004. I don't like it, really, but I think it's worth it.
Just my 2 cents.
P.S. Almost any music biz person you see at shows is wearing them- so you know all the cool people are wearing them
Get the right earplugs. If you get the cheap disposable earplugs, you won't enjoy the music as much. If you love going to shows, go to a music store and get a set of musician's plugs. They cost more, $15 - 150 bucks, but they are reusable. They filter out the sound more evenly, so you can actually hear the music, but at a more tolerable level. I can hear people talking better in a noisy club with my earplugs on!
Watch out when you crank up your walkman/ portable music/ ipod headphones. Especially if your in a loud environment, and the phones are cranked up. That can be as damaging as a rock show, but more so if you have them on for a long time.
A quick and dirty test.
Put your car radio on a talk show and turn it down to the lowest volume that you can understand words on. Go rock out at the show. Get back in your car and try to hear the words on the radio.
:eek:
You can't can you!
Your hearing will recover,,, but a little less each time. You only get so many times you can do that, as it's progressive.
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Goodness that's a bit of an eye opener. I'd never thought about it before but I suppose I really should. So the majority of bands we see on stage are fecking up their hearing every single time they play? Nasty. I love nothing more than being in a wee room and playing at rediculous volumes as well..
The worst part is, all those musicians who've been on really loud stages need it to be louder and louder as the years go by, so they just keep adding more and more damage...
The smart ones are switching to IEM's. They kinda suck for a musician the same way earplugs suck for people in the audience, but if your hearing is important, you'll get by.
Like who's_pearljam? said, there are better earplugs out there. I usually carry around cheapies, because I have a tendancy to lose them... but if you care to spend a little more and take good care of them, you can get a nice set of plugs that will filter the noise more evenly (cheap plugs tend to work more in the high-range frequencies, so they make things sound muffled, not just quieter).
An interesting side-note: I read an article in an audio engineering magazine that showed that people who listen to really loud noises for an extended period of time will experience an endorphin rush. The reason is, your body reacts to the damage to your ears by releasing endorphins... so when you go to a really loud concert, and when you leave you feel great, some of that is a function of your body reacting to the damage in your ears. You're riding on a wave of painkillers.
I'd rather keep my ears safe, and have a beer.
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Wasn't that due to an exploding kick drum that exploded at point blank range.............either way def wear them...............
This is a well put together post with lot's of information. I have some slightly differing data, but they are from a somewhat dated publication (1997). The point is obvious however.
The point is yes, make every effort to wear some hearing protection to preserve your hearing in the years to come.
In short, as mccreadyisgod shows us vividly, there are two ingredients in effect that make noises toxic 1. the decible level (volume) and 2. the amount of time you are exposed.
Notes: Be aware that any noise over 85dB HL for more than 15 minutes can be potentially toxic. Also, most earplugs that are over the counter can only attenuate 20 to 30 dB.....ideally. So some noise is going to be so loud that even earplugs won't help for very long.
M. Clarke, MS, CCC/A (Audiologist)
My father in law was a farmer, and can no longer hear because of exposure to the constant sound of a tractor or combine engine. If that does damage to the ear, loud music at concerts and rehearsals can only do more damage.
It will catch up with you in the long run. So, wear them. You will be glad when you are 40 or 50 years old.
The last show I went to, Reading, killed my ears, I'll never go to a show without earplugs again. It was way too loud, uneccesary in my eyes. Kind of pissed me off.
These types of earplugs do not reduce sound quality, but just volume...Ideal for concerts and musicians.
I was at the Reading show, and you're right. It was way loud. Maybe because it was a small venue, but it was really shrill sounding to me.
(At least I can STILL hear some of the high notes!
Concerts aren't a loud as they used to be, though, because the sound systems are better and clearer sounding.
Old Who, Stones, Zeppelin concerts, ,,,,,Whew!
The loudest I think I remember is Jefferson Airplane. The crowd was standing with their hands over their ears most of the show. The band was standing in front of these glass like booths to deflect the stage sound.
Nowadays, too, the stage volume isn't as loud as it used to be, because monitors are better, and the PA is in front of the band, but it's still loud.
I don't know if PJ wears earplugs or not. The Grateful Dead used to play 290 shows a year, though. That must have been an eardrum rippler!
Don't be mankind. ~Captain Beefheart
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Their show here in Missoula was louder than fuck, too... I had my 28 dB plugs in, and it was still too loud! The show I was at in Denver wasn't nearly as bad. I think they just rock the smaller rooms a little harder, for some reason.
As far as the guys in PJ, I don't think the stage volume is too terribly bad... Just because it's loud in the audience doesn't mean it's that bad on stage. I have a feeling that Eddie gets blasted a bit, though... have you SEEN how many monitors he has in front and back of him? What a nightmare...
those are the ones I have
they're very effective, I recommend them to anyone
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I played drums for about 4 months without them, while listening to music at full blast all the time, and I already have a little bit of a harder time hearing people.
personally, I wear old headphone things used for shooting off guns. I've never worn them at a show, but next one my band plays at I will be...
those numbers for how long it takes to damage your ears are pretty interesting... I'm not sure how acurate htey are; I've always though it basically had to be about 15 minutes before you started to damage your ears... definately makes me worry and want to look into it, though.
btw, does anybody know why it's always ear plugs not headset things?
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his floor monitors probably aren't cranked TOO loud - just enough so he can hear over the din of the crowd & amps/drums behind him. I think everyone on stage gets an equal amount of noise up there, though. but the amps, drums and vox are mic'd out for the audience and cranked out of the PA speakers so those closer to the stage get it worse than the band...right?
the massive array of monitors are because Eddie roams too much and won't use an In ear. remember, the stuff posted earlier from the rat sound page about hiding monitors in a chandelier or something because he would roam all over and not stay infront of his monitors?
In ears have to be a god send for monitor engineers.
by the way Velvet Revolver besides being remarkably average and almost boring, is ungodly loud. between that and Anti Flag at a RATM show I attended those are the loudest shows I've ever heard. I shant attend anymore without plugs.
I think he's probably not using the full volume available... those monitors have to be capable of 140 dB. Like Paco said, coverage area is probably the bigger issue... that's why they use side-fill monitors, as well.
As far as it goes, in-ear-monitors are an audio engineer's best friend. The monitor tech doesn't have to worry about roaming singer/guitarists, no feedback, and the front-of-house engineer doesn't have to fight the stage volume to get a decent mix. And for an artist, they provide a constant, consistent mix no matter where you are on stage, they provide better vocal intelligability, no feedback, and less overall volume. A lot of bands are putting a couple audience mics out front, and running them into the IEM's so they can still hear the crowd.
As far as distance from the stage, sound acts logrithmically... so every time you double your distance from the stage, you cut the overall sound pressure by 5 dB. And decibels are logrithmic, so every ten dB is either twice or half as loud. So, if the volume 10 feet from the stage is 130 dB, you'd have to move to 40 feet away to get down to 120 dB, and at the back of an arena (160 ft.) you'd still be looking at around 110 dB.
The numbers are OSHA numbers... so maybe a little overzealous, but legally employers have to comply with them. But shoot a .357 Magnum 6 times in 5 seconds right next to your ears (about 140-145 dB) and see if you don't have damage.
Earplugs are low-profile, headsets are painfully obvious.
Are those ones from the earplug superstore really good?
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