So serious question since I’ve been called racist multiple times over this. Where was the outrage in 2012 when many of those “cages” were built?
Why only now is it wrong to use chain link and combo sinks? Remember in 2018 when those pictures came out and everyone was furious at Trump over the conditions….until they learned the pictures were from 2014? If you don’t complain in 2012, 2014, 2022 about the “cages” you are either disingenuous or uninformed about the facilities. And I don’t mean that as an insult, maybe people really don’t know they’ve been used by ice for over a decade and they’ve been in prisons since the 50s. I’ll say it again, I’m against the ice roundups. I’m against mass deportation. I’m against inhumane treatment of illegal immigrants. But these holding facilities have been around a long time and people are only now getting upset over the use of fencing and combo sinks.
But when you have a less than magnanimous commander in chief (one who seems to delight in making people he doesn't like miserable), theres certainly going to be more attention drawn to it and show in the light its cruelty. So I get why more and more people are waking up to it.
But you guys are still okay with this, aren’t you? Just normal stuff and it’s okay because he’s the “other, ‘other’ other, right? From Letter From An American:
Those numbers are unlikely to improve for the administration in light of yesterday’s ICE raids at two licensed cannabis farms in Southern California. Agents used less-lethal ammunition and tear gas in the raids. A number of people were injured, one critically. Agents arrested 200 people, including George Retes, a 25-year-old disabled veteran and U.S. citizen who worked at one of the farms as a security guard. Agents claimed Retes was a protester. His family has been unable to locate him, telling Josh Haskell of the local ABC affiliate that the local sheriff’s office and local police departments all said they do not know where he is.
I’ve said before I don’t agree with the ice raids. I think the increased ice budget is a waste of money. People who have an established life here should be allowed to stay. I disagree with a lot of what ice is doing. But my comment was specifically about the conditions of the holding cells, or more accurately reflecting on the comments about them. Why are they only called cages when it’s Trump? Why do people only have an issue with the plumbing when it’s Trump?
There is nothing wrong with using chain link or the type of sinks being used in itself. Going on camera about it in tears like AOC did only when the other side is in the White House is fake.
So you’re okay with “cages” and toilet/sink combos regardless of administration, correct?
In and of itself, sure. As long as the conditions remain humane and sanitary. Chain link fences and combo sinks alone don’t make it inhumane and unsanitary by themselves.
Inconsistent temperatures: One detainee
reported it being too cold inside the tent to sleep, but later that the
air conditioning stopped working, leading to hot temperatures.
Wildlife: Multiple detainees reported large bugs and swarms of mosquitoes inside the cells.
Unsanitary conditions: Reports indicated detainees were unable to flush toilets and weren't given access to showers for several days.
No secure lines: One
account said the state had yet to provide a secure phone line for
detainees to call their legal counsel. A lawyer for a detainee told the
Herald she's been unable to get in touch or confirm her client's
whereabouts.
Hospitalization: HCA Florida
confirmed to the Herald that a detainee from the facility arrived at the
hospital Monday for care. State officials called it "fake news" before
acknowledging an inmate arrived at the hospital but adding he wasn't
admitted.
Where are we supposed to put them? I don't know a good answer. And that is the unsolved problem. The person that solves it might make a billion. I am truly sorry your free space is not comfortable and you do not get free phones or a clean toilet.
First off, they should be given due process.
Secondly, if they are not charged with a crime, back to their families and work.
Thirdly, any that really are hardened criminals, back to #1 above.
Fourthly, most are not criminals, so there is no need for that inhumane caging.
NO ONE belongs in those swampy shit holes.
Thank you, that was the easiest billion I've ever made.
Who pays for that? You did not solve the matter. Hardened criminals? Just get them out. No due process. I agree the conditions are deplorable. But really, what is the solution dealing with thousands of people coming here illegally? Should we shake their hand and put them up at a Hampton Inn?
For clarification, what are you considering hardened criminals and what are the parameters? I'm not sure how someone can be designated as a hardened criminal with no due process. Or are you just referring to deportation and no due process for those who have been convicted of certain crimes?
For what it's worth, due process doesn't have to be complicated. It can be as simple as someone reviewing the case to confirm deportation is warranted and that they have the right person. There has to be some level of checks and balances, especially under the current ICE admin and their loose SOP for detainment and deportation.
Should not matter. It is not about complexity. We are not talking about parking tickets. Who pays for someone to review a case? How much do think that costs? There are no checks and balances if you are not a citizen. Maybe my view is skewed from global travel. You cannot just walk into many countries. You get a bed and a meal. Many places just say get out.
show me on the Constitution where it says that. then show the law that was upheld saying that if not in the Constitution .
SCOTUS HAS AFFIRMED RIGHTS AFFORDED TO NON-CITIZENS.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
But when you have a less than magnanimous commander in chief (one who seems to delight in making people he doesn't like miserable), theres certainly going to be more attention drawn to it and show in the light its cruelty. So I get why more and more people are waking up to it.
This is the difference...trump gets off on making people miserable, no other previous admin (except trump 1) has done this
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But you guys are still okay with this, aren’t you? Just normal stuff and it’s okay because he’s the “other, ‘other’ other, right? From Letter From An American:
Those numbers are unlikely to improve for the administration in light of yesterday’s ICE raids at two licensed cannabis farms in Southern California. Agents used less-lethal ammunition and tear gas in the raids. A number of people were injured, one critically. Agents arrested 200 people, including George Retes, a 25-year-old disabled veteran and U.S. citizen who worked at one of the farms as a security guard. Agents claimed Retes was a protester. His family has been unable to locate him, telling Josh Haskell of the local ABC affiliate that the local sheriff’s office and local police departments all said they do not know where he is.
I’ve said before I don’t agree with the ice raids. I think the increased ice budget is a waste of money. People who have an established life here should be allowed to stay. I disagree with a lot of what ice is doing. But my comment was specifically about the conditions of the holding cells, or more accurately reflecting on the comments about them. Why are they only called cages when it’s Trump? Why do people only have an issue with the plumbing when it’s Trump?
There is nothing wrong with using chain link or the type of sinks being used in itself. Going on camera about it in tears like AOC did only when the other side is in the White House is fake.
So you’re okay with “cages” and toilet/sink combos regardless of administration, correct?
In and of itself, sure. As long as the conditions remain humane and sanitary. Chain link fences and combo sinks alone don’t make it inhumane and unsanitary by themselves.
Inconsistent temperatures: One detainee
reported it being too cold inside the tent to sleep, but later that the
air conditioning stopped working, leading to hot temperatures.
Wildlife: Multiple detainees reported large bugs and swarms of mosquitoes inside the cells.
Unsanitary conditions: Reports indicated detainees were unable to flush toilets and weren't given access to showers for several days.
No secure lines: One
account said the state had yet to provide a secure phone line for
detainees to call their legal counsel. A lawyer for a detainee told the
Herald she's been unable to get in touch or confirm her client's
whereabouts.
Hospitalization: HCA Florida
confirmed to the Herald that a detainee from the facility arrived at the
hospital Monday for care. State officials called it "fake news" before
acknowledging an inmate arrived at the hospital but adding he wasn't
admitted.
Where are we supposed to put them? I don't know a good answer. And that is the unsolved problem. The person that solves it might make a billion. I am truly sorry your free space is not comfortable and you do not get free phones or a clean toilet.
First off, they should be given due process.
Secondly, if they are not charged with a crime, back to their families and work.
Thirdly, any that really are hardened criminals, back to #1 above.
Fourthly, most are not criminals, so there is no need for that inhumane caging.
NO ONE belongs in those swampy shit holes.
Thank you, that was the easiest billion I've ever made.
Who pays for that? You did not solve the matter. Hardened criminals? Just get them out. No due process. I agree the conditions are deplorable. But really, what is the solution dealing with thousands of people coming here illegally? Should we shake their hand and put them up at a Hampton Inn?
For clarification, what are you considering hardened criminals and what are the parameters? I'm not sure how someone can be designated as a hardened criminal with no due process. Or are you just referring to deportation and no due process for those who have been convicted of certain crimes?
For what it's worth, due process doesn't have to be complicated. It can be as simple as someone reviewing the case to confirm deportation is warranted and that they have the right person. There has to be some level of checks and balances, especially under the current ICE admin and their loose SOP for detainment and deportation.
Should not matter. It is not about complexity. We are not talking about parking tickets. Who pays for someone to review a case? How much do think that costs? There are no checks and balances if you are not a citizen. Maybe my view is skewed from global travel. You cannot just walk into many countries. You get a bed and a meal. Many places just say get out.
show me on the Constitution where it says that. then show the law that was upheld saying that if not in the Constitution .
SCOTUS HAS AFFIRMED RIGHTS AFFORDED TO NON-CITIZENS.
Yep they did. But there is a large gap between a judicial decision and the daily execution. Ask a CBP employee if they care about that decision. And we have a president who is not afraid of judges. Ever been stopped by a cop without Miranda rights being read? Actual citizens get hassled, many times bordering on unlawful, all the time. You can shout due process all you want from your jail cell. It will not get you out.
But you guys are still okay with this, aren’t you? Just normal stuff and it’s okay because he’s the “other, ‘other’ other, right? From Letter From An American:
Those numbers are unlikely to improve for the administration in light of yesterday’s ICE raids at two licensed cannabis farms in Southern California. Agents used less-lethal ammunition and tear gas in the raids. A number of people were injured, one critically. Agents arrested 200 people, including George Retes, a 25-year-old disabled veteran and U.S. citizen who worked at one of the farms as a security guard. Agents claimed Retes was a protester. His family has been unable to locate him, telling Josh Haskell of the local ABC affiliate that the local sheriff’s office and local police departments all said they do not know where he is.
I’ve said before I don’t agree with the ice raids. I think the increased ice budget is a waste of money. People who have an established life here should be allowed to stay. I disagree with a lot of what ice is doing. But my comment was specifically about the conditions of the holding cells, or more accurately reflecting on the comments about them. Why are they only called cages when it’s Trump? Why do people only have an issue with the plumbing when it’s Trump?
There is nothing wrong with using chain link or the type of sinks being used in itself. Going on camera about it in tears like AOC did only when the other side is in the White House is fake.
So you’re okay with “cages” and toilet/sink combos regardless of administration, correct?
In and of itself, sure. As long as the conditions remain humane and sanitary. Chain link fences and combo sinks alone don’t make it inhumane and unsanitary by themselves.
Inconsistent temperatures: One detainee
reported it being too cold inside the tent to sleep, but later that the
air conditioning stopped working, leading to hot temperatures.
Wildlife: Multiple detainees reported large bugs and swarms of mosquitoes inside the cells.
Unsanitary conditions: Reports indicated detainees were unable to flush toilets and weren't given access to showers for several days.
No secure lines: One
account said the state had yet to provide a secure phone line for
detainees to call their legal counsel. A lawyer for a detainee told the
Herald she's been unable to get in touch or confirm her client's
whereabouts.
Hospitalization: HCA Florida
confirmed to the Herald that a detainee from the facility arrived at the
hospital Monday for care. State officials called it "fake news" before
acknowledging an inmate arrived at the hospital but adding he wasn't
admitted.
Where are we supposed to put them? I don't know a good answer. And that is the unsolved problem. The person that solves it might make a billion. I am truly sorry your free space is not comfortable and you do not get free phones or a clean toilet.
First off, they should be given due process.
Secondly, if they are not charged with a crime, back to their families and work.
Thirdly, any that really are hardened criminals, back to #1 above.
Fourthly, most are not criminals, so there is no need for that inhumane caging.
NO ONE belongs in those swampy shit holes.
Thank you, that was the easiest billion I've ever made.
Who pays for that? You did not solve the matter. Hardened criminals? Just get them out. No due process. I agree the conditions are deplorable. But really, what is the solution dealing with thousands of people coming here illegally? Should we shake their hand and put them up at a Hampton Inn?
For clarification, what are you considering hardened criminals and what are the parameters? I'm not sure how someone can be designated as a hardened criminal with no due process. Or are you just referring to deportation and no due process for those who have been convicted of certain crimes?
For what it's worth, due process doesn't have to be complicated. It can be as simple as someone reviewing the case to confirm deportation is warranted and that they have the right person. There has to be some level of checks and balances, especially under the current ICE admin and their loose SOP for detainment and deportation.
Should not matter. It is not about complexity. We are not talking about parking tickets. Who pays for someone to review a case? How much do think that costs? There are no checks and balances if you are not a citizen. Maybe my view is skewed from global travel. You cannot just walk into many countries. You get a bed and a meal. Many places just say get out.
But we are talking about civil infractions that used to require due process. As for “hardened criminals” that’s what stupid was sold on to buy into the suspension of civil liberties. Taking it a step further, was there due process for those “hardened criminals” here, in which case, why are they here as they should have been deported upon finishing their sentence, of which I agree, get them out, with due process, or were/are the “hardened criminals” from wherever they came from, again, stupid sold on “they emptied their prisons and mental institutions”? Who determines that without due process? Or is a “hardened criminal” anyone who looks like an “other”, might have tattoos or calves the size of cantaloupes?
The logic around the practice versus the constitution doesn’t square and too many ‘Muricans are willingly giving up their rights in the process, either because of expense, their perception of white privilege and it can’t happen to them, the cruelty of it all because “somebody” has to pay, stupidity (there was a bi-partisan border bill but you know), or some combination of all these.
Not realistic. Too many people. It is simple in many countries, no visa no entry. The government may even put you on a flight that same day. There may even be worse conditions in Asia than those cages. You can have your due process from your home country. This is not the past. Showing up at Ellis Island is long gone.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,566
But you guys are still okay with this, aren’t you? Just normal stuff and it’s okay because he’s the “other, ‘other’ other, right? From Letter From An American:
Those numbers are unlikely to improve for the administration in light of yesterday’s ICE raids at two licensed cannabis farms in Southern California. Agents used less-lethal ammunition and tear gas in the raids. A number of people were injured, one critically. Agents arrested 200 people, including George Retes, a 25-year-old disabled veteran and U.S. citizen who worked at one of the farms as a security guard. Agents claimed Retes was a protester. His family has been unable to locate him, telling Josh Haskell of the local ABC affiliate that the local sheriff’s office and local police departments all said they do not know where he is.
I’ve said before I don’t agree with the ice raids. I think the increased ice budget is a waste of money. People who have an established life here should be allowed to stay. I disagree with a lot of what ice is doing. But my comment was specifically about the conditions of the holding cells, or more accurately reflecting on the comments about them. Why are they only called cages when it’s Trump? Why do people only have an issue with the plumbing when it’s Trump?
There is nothing wrong with using chain link or the type of sinks being used in itself. Going on camera about it in tears like AOC did only when the other side is in the White House is fake.
So you’re okay with “cages” and toilet/sink combos regardless of administration, correct?
In and of itself, sure. As long as the conditions remain humane and sanitary. Chain link fences and combo sinks alone don’t make it inhumane and unsanitary by themselves.
Inconsistent temperatures: One detainee
reported it being too cold inside the tent to sleep, but later that the
air conditioning stopped working, leading to hot temperatures.
Wildlife: Multiple detainees reported large bugs and swarms of mosquitoes inside the cells.
Unsanitary conditions: Reports indicated detainees were unable to flush toilets and weren't given access to showers for several days.
No secure lines: One
account said the state had yet to provide a secure phone line for
detainees to call their legal counsel. A lawyer for a detainee told the
Herald she's been unable to get in touch or confirm her client's
whereabouts.
Hospitalization: HCA Florida
confirmed to the Herald that a detainee from the facility arrived at the
hospital Monday for care. State officials called it "fake news" before
acknowledging an inmate arrived at the hospital but adding he wasn't
admitted.
Where are we supposed to put them? I don't know a good answer. And that is the unsolved problem. The person that solves it might make a billion. I am truly sorry your free space is not comfortable and you do not get free phones or a clean toilet.
First off, they should be given due process.
Secondly, if they are not charged with a crime, back to their families and work.
Thirdly, any that really are hardened criminals, back to #1 above.
Fourthly, most are not criminals, so there is no need for that inhumane caging.
NO ONE belongs in those swampy shit holes.
Thank you, that was the easiest billion I've ever made.
Who pays for that? You did not solve the matter. Hardened criminals? Just get them out. No due process. I agree the conditions are deplorable. But really, what is the solution dealing with thousands of people coming here illegally? Should we shake their hand and put them up at a Hampton Inn?
No due process? You might as well tell me "Fuck those people, hang them on the spot."
You and I are done here.
Adios.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"
-Roberto Benigni
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,566
Look folks, at this point, I have zero tolerance for inhumanity, and zero interest in discussing with people who make weak excuses for inhumane treatment. It's just in my nature to be this outspoken against cruelty, and I don't understand people who are not. If that's a problem for anyone, feel free to ignore me.
But no one was making excuses for inhumane treatment. Ive said many times, I don’t agree with the ice roundups. I don’t agree with mass deportation. I don’t agree with the ice budget. I don’t agree with over crowding facilities. Those with an established life here and have lead a crime-free life should stay. Those being detailed should have clean water and restrooms and adequate living conditions. All I’m saying is fences and combo sinks have been the standard for decades. Those combo sinks are not unsanitary like some people report. It’s not drinking out of the toilet.
Yes, there are still unsanitary conditions that I don’t like, but it’s not because of those two things that I keep seeing brought up over and over. Things that have been the standard for decades that people are only now complaining about.
These "detention centers" are more like gulags. I don't understand any argument about that at this point.
And when a president says things like "We're going to teach them how to run away from an alligator if they escape prison," and when
asked if the concept was for detainees to be eaten by alligators if they
tried to escape, Trump reportedly replied, "I guess that's the
concept". You can't honestly expect us to think this shit is "normal".
But you guys are still okay with this, aren’t you? Just normal stuff and it’s okay because he’s the “other, ‘other’ other, right? From Letter From An American:
Those numbers are unlikely to improve for the administration in light of yesterday’s ICE raids at two licensed cannabis farms in Southern California. Agents used less-lethal ammunition and tear gas in the raids. A number of people were injured, one critically. Agents arrested 200 people, including George Retes, a 25-year-old disabled veteran and U.S. citizen who worked at one of the farms as a security guard. Agents claimed Retes was a protester. His family has been unable to locate him, telling Josh Haskell of the local ABC affiliate that the local sheriff’s office and local police departments all said they do not know where he is.
I’ve said before I don’t agree with the ice raids. I think the increased ice budget is a waste of money. People who have an established life here should be allowed to stay. I disagree with a lot of what ice is doing. But my comment was specifically about the conditions of the holding cells, or more accurately reflecting on the comments about them. Why are they only called cages when it’s Trump? Why do people only have an issue with the plumbing when it’s Trump?
There is nothing wrong with using chain link or the type of sinks being used in itself. Going on camera about it in tears like AOC did only when the other side is in the White House is fake.
So you’re okay with “cages” and toilet/sink combos regardless of administration, correct?
In and of itself, sure. As long as the conditions remain humane and sanitary. Chain link fences and combo sinks alone don’t make it inhumane and unsanitary by themselves.
Inconsistent temperatures: One detainee
reported it being too cold inside the tent to sleep, but later that the
air conditioning stopped working, leading to hot temperatures.
Wildlife: Multiple detainees reported large bugs and swarms of mosquitoes inside the cells.
Unsanitary conditions: Reports indicated detainees were unable to flush toilets and weren't given access to showers for several days.
No secure lines: One
account said the state had yet to provide a secure phone line for
detainees to call their legal counsel. A lawyer for a detainee told the
Herald she's been unable to get in touch or confirm her client's
whereabouts.
Hospitalization: HCA Florida
confirmed to the Herald that a detainee from the facility arrived at the
hospital Monday for care. State officials called it "fake news" before
acknowledging an inmate arrived at the hospital but adding he wasn't
admitted.
Where are we supposed to put them? I don't know a good answer. And that is the unsolved problem. The person that solves it might make a billion. I am truly sorry your free space is not comfortable and you do not get free phones or a clean toilet.
First off, they should be given due process.
Secondly, if they are not charged with a crime, back to their families and work.
Thirdly, any that really are hardened criminals, back to #1 above.
Fourthly, most are not criminals, so there is no need for that inhumane caging.
NO ONE belongs in those swampy shit holes.
Thank you, that was the easiest billion I've ever made.
Who pays for that? You did not solve the matter. Hardened criminals? Just get them out. No due process. I agree the conditions are deplorable. But really, what is the solution dealing with thousands of people coming here illegally? Should we shake their hand and put them up at a Hampton Inn?
No due process? You might as well tell me "Fuck those people, hang them on the spot."
You and I are done here.
Adios.
Not here to battle, just stating my opinion. And I have done a huge amount of work with US government agencies. We could probably learn something from Canada.
Representative
Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL) said: “These detainees are living in
cages. The pictures you've seen don't do it justice. They are
essentially packed into cages. Wall to wall humans. Thirty-two detainees
per cage…. There are three tiny toilets that…have a sink attached to
it, so…they get their drinking water and they brush their teeth where
they poop, in the same unit." Nine hundred men are currently in the
facility.
The person whom wrote this has obviously never been to prison. The toilets and sink are always a combination unit. They must also have some crazy bathroom where the sink isn't next to their toilet...
But you guys are still okay with this, aren’t you? Just normal stuff and it’s okay because he’s the “other, ‘other’ other, right? From Letter From An American:
Those numbers are unlikely to improve for the administration in light of yesterday’s ICE raids at two licensed cannabis farms in Southern California. Agents used less-lethal ammunition and tear gas in the raids. A number of people were injured, one critically. Agents arrested 200 people, including George Retes, a 25-year-old disabled veteran and U.S. citizen who worked at one of the farms as a security guard. Agents claimed Retes was a protester. His family has been unable to locate him, telling Josh Haskell of the local ABC affiliate that the local sheriff’s office and local police departments all said they do not know where he is.
I’ve said before I don’t agree with the ice raids. I think the increased ice budget is a waste of money. People who have an established life here should be allowed to stay. I disagree with a lot of what ice is doing. But my comment was specifically about the conditions of the holding cells, or more accurately reflecting on the comments about them. Why are they only called cages when it’s Trump? Why do people only have an issue with the plumbing when it’s Trump?
There is nothing wrong with using chain link or the type of sinks being used in itself. Going on camera about it in tears like AOC did only when the other side is in the White House is fake.
So you’re okay with “cages” and toilet/sink combos regardless of administration, correct?
In and of itself, sure. As long as the conditions remain humane and sanitary. Chain link fences and combo sinks alone don’t make it inhumane and unsanitary by themselves.
Inconsistent temperatures: One detainee
reported it being too cold inside the tent to sleep, but later that the
air conditioning stopped working, leading to hot temperatures.
Wildlife: Multiple detainees reported large bugs and swarms of mosquitoes inside the cells.
Unsanitary conditions: Reports indicated detainees were unable to flush toilets and weren't given access to showers for several days.
No secure lines: One
account said the state had yet to provide a secure phone line for
detainees to call their legal counsel. A lawyer for a detainee told the
Herald she's been unable to get in touch or confirm her client's
whereabouts.
Hospitalization: HCA Florida
confirmed to the Herald that a detainee from the facility arrived at the
hospital Monday for care. State officials called it "fake news" before
acknowledging an inmate arrived at the hospital but adding he wasn't
admitted.
Where are we supposed to put them? I don't know a good answer. And that is the unsolved problem. The person that solves it might make a billion. I am truly sorry your free space is not comfortable and you do not get free phones or a clean toilet.
First off, they should be given due process.
Secondly, if they are not charged with a crime, back to their families and work.
Thirdly, any that really are hardened criminals, back to #1 above.
Fourthly, most are not criminals, so there is no need for that inhumane caging.
NO ONE belongs in those swampy shit holes.
Thank you, that was the easiest billion I've ever made.
Who pays for that? You did not solve the matter. Hardened criminals? Just get them out. No due process. I agree the conditions are deplorable. But really, what is the solution dealing with thousands of people coming here illegally? Should we shake their hand and put them up at a Hampton Inn?
For clarification, what are you considering hardened criminals and what are the parameters? I'm not sure how someone can be designated as a hardened criminal with no due process. Or are you just referring to deportation and no due process for those who have been convicted of certain crimes?
For what it's worth, due process doesn't have to be complicated. It can be as simple as someone reviewing the case to confirm deportation is warranted and that they have the right person. There has to be some level of checks and balances, especially under the current ICE admin and their loose SOP for detainment and deportation.
It might not be that difficult for an undocumented person to commit serious crimes. If they all get in a car and goto the ball game, whoever drives is committing a crime "domestic transportation of unauthorized aliens."
If someone allows an undocumented person to sleep in their basement it could be viewed as "conceal, harbor, or shield from detection” an undocumented person.
I don't support this in any way but people on the left need to realize that folks who came here illegally are all on the precipice of committing serious crimes based on the circumstances of them just being here. So they got a quick hearing it's not going to change much. And the Latinos and other Central American groups voted for this
Fifteen immigration judges learned they would be put on leave and their employment would terminate on July 22, according to two people familiar with the firings and confirmed by the International Federation of Professional and Technical Engineers, a union that represents immigration judges. The two people spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisals.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
But if it’s a need to keep score and the point is to say, "look Obama and Biden too", then fine. Obama and Biden too were wrong.
If it’s always wrong, is it wrong in jail, prisons and drunk tanks too? Because that’s been common use for about 75 years there. But I’ve yet to hear a single member of congress complain about someone in a drum tank washing their hands where they poop. One reason it seemed so out of place to play the race card and call me racist. I’m not saying immigrants deserve less, I’m saying it’s been common practice for a very long time. And only now, and only for ICE detention centers is anyone complaining about it. If it’s wrong and inhumane, then it’s wrong for everyone, right?
Now a lot of people took my comment on the sinks to say I’m normalizing everything Trump is doing. I’ll say it for about the 6th time, I’m not. I don’t agree with his rhetoric, the round ups, the mass deportation, the concept of alligator Alcatraz, etc. But when the main complaint I keep saying is calling them cages and saying they poop and brush their teeth in the same unit, when they haven’t said anything about it in the last 15 years, I can’t help but roll my eyes at those comments.
But if it’s a need to keep score and the point is to say, "look Obama and Biden too", then fine. Obama and Biden too were wrong.
If it’s always wrong, is it wrong in jail, prisons and drunk tanks too? Because that’s been common use for about 75 years there. But I’ve yet to hear a single member of congress complain about someone in a drum tank washing their hands where they poop. One reason it seemed so out of place to play the race card and call me racist. I’m not saying immigrants deserve less, I’m saying it’s been common practice for a very long time. And only now, and only for ICE detention centers is anyone complaining about it. If it’s wrong and inhumane, then it’s wrong for everyone, right?
Now a lot of people took my comment on the sinks to say I’m normalizing everything Trump is doing. I’ll say it for about the 6th time, I’m not. I don’t agree with his rhetoric, the round ups, the mass deportation, the concept of alligator Alcatraz, etc. But when the main complaint I keep saying is calling them cages and saying they poop and brush their teeth in the same unit, when they haven’t said anything about it in the last 15 years, I can’t help but roll my eyes at those comments.
By your logic when Obama & Biden were doing the same thing I ask why didn’t the GOP hierarchy cry foul? Like the Democrats are doing now? Could it be they don’t give a fuck how immigrants are treated so if they were it’s all good?
"I don't support this in any way but people on the left need to realize that folks who came here illegally are all on the precipice of committing serious crimes based on the circumstances of them just being here."
"I don't support this in any way but people on the left need to realize that folks who came here illegally are all on the precipice of committing serious crimes based on the circumstances of them just being here."
Representative
Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL) said: “These detainees are living in
cages. The pictures you've seen don't do it justice. They are
essentially packed into cages. Wall to wall humans. Thirty-two detainees
per cage…. There are three tiny toilets that…have a sink attached to
it, so…they get their drinking water and they brush their teeth where
they poop, in the same unit." Nine hundred men are currently in the
facility.
The person whom wrote this has obviously never been to prison. The toilets and sink are always a combination unit. They must also have some crazy bathroom where the sink isn't next to their toilet...
Did you watch her presser? Go ahead tell me how it makes sense for you to say this^^^^
You know what 🖕🏽🖕🏽🖕🏽🖕🏽this administration and anyone who supports this! Treatment of these HUMANS is plain and simple fucking vile now I’m onto the ignore feature!
Trump appointees insist they have a “mandate” to drive undocumented immigrants out of the U.S. and prevent new immigrants from coming in, and are launching a massive increase in Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers and detention facilities to do so. But a poll released Friday shows that only 35% of American adults approve of Trump’s handling of immigration, while 62% disapprove.
The poll shows a record 79% of adults saying immigration is good for the country, with only 17% seeing it as bad. Only 30% of American adults say immigration should be reduced.
The poll shows that 85% of American adults want laws to allow “immigrants, who were brought to the U.S. illegally as children, the chance to become U.S. citizens if they meet certain requirements over a period of time.” Seventy-eight percent of American adults want the law to allow “immigrants living in the U.S. illegally the chance to become U.S. citizens if they meet certain requirements over a period of time.” Only 38% want the government to deport “all immigrants who are living in the United States illegally back to their home country.”
The poll shows Americans eager to fix a problem that stems from a bipartisan 1965 law that reworked America's immigration laws.
In 1924, during a period of opposition to immigration that fueled the second rise of the Ku Klux Klan, Congress had passed the nation's first comprehensive immigration law. That law, known as the Johnson-Reed Act, limited immigration according to quotas assigned to each country. Those quotas were heavily weighted toward western Europe, virtually prohibiting immigration from Asia and Africa and dramatically curtailing it from southern Europe.
The Johnson-Reed Act simply taxed workers coming to the U.S. from Mexico, because from the time the current border was set in 1848 until the 1930s, people moved back and forth across it. Laborers in particular came from Mexico to work for the huge American agribusinesses that dominate the agricultural sector, especially after 1907 when the Japanese workers who had been taking over those jobs were unofficially kept out of the country by the so-called “Gentlemen’s Agreement.” Later, during World War I, the government encouraged immigration to help increase production.
The Depression, when the bottom fell out of the economy, coupled with the Dust Bowl, when the bottom fell out of the western plains, made destitute white Americans turn on Mexican migrants (as well as on their poor white neighbors, as John Steinbeck wrote about in The Grapes of Wrath). The government rounded up Mexicans and shipped them back over the border.
World War II created another shortage of laborers, and to regularize the system of migrant labor, the U.S. government in 1942 started a guest worker policy called the Bracero Program that ultimately brought more than 4 million Mexican workers to the U.S. The program was supposed to guarantee that migrant workers were well treated and adequately paid and housed. But it didn’t work out that way. Employers hired illegal as well as legal workers and treated them poorly. American workers complained about competition.
President Dwight D. Eisenhower returned about a million illegal workers in 1954 under "Operation Wetback," only to have officials readmit most of them as braceros. Under pressure both from labor and from reformers who recognized that the system was exploitative at the same time that mechanization began replacing workers, President John F. Kennedy initiated the process that ended the Bracero Program in 1964. In 1965 the government tried to replace migrant labor with American high school students, but the “A-TEAM” project—“Athletes in Temporary Employment as Agricultural Manpower”—failed.
The end of the Bracero program coincided with congressional reworking of the 1924 Johnson-Reed Act. In the midst of the Vietnam War and the Civil Rights Movement, Congress wanted to end the racial quota system of immigration and replace it with one that did not so obviously discriminate against Asia and Africa. In 1965, Congress passed the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, or the Hart-Celler Act. It opened immigration to all nations, setting a general cap on total immigration levels.
But southern congressmen, appalled at the idea of Black immigration, introduced a provision that privileged family migration, arguing that “family unification” should be the nation's top priority. They expected that old-stock immigrants from western Europe would use the provision to bring over their relatives, which would keep the effect of the 1924 law without the statute. But their provision had the opposite effect. It was new immigrants who wanted to bring their families, not old ones. So immigration began to skew heavily toward Asia and Latin America.
At the same time, Hart-Celler put a cap on immigrants from Mexico just as the guest worker program ended. The cap was low: 20,000, although 50,000 workers were coming annually at that point, and American agribusiness depended on migrant labor. Workers continued to come as they always had, and to be employed, as always. But now their presence was illegal.
In 1986, Congress tried to fix the problem of border security between the U.S. and Mexico by offering amnesty to 2.3 million Mexicans who were living in the United States and by cracking down on employers who hired undocumented workers. But rather than ending the problem of undocumented workers, the new law exacerbated it by beginning the process of guarding and militarizing the border. Until then, migrants into the United States had been offset by an equal number leaving at the end of the season. Once the border became heavily guarded, Mexican migrants refused to take the chance of leaving.
Since 1986, U.S. politicians have refused to deal with this disconnect, which grew in the 1990s when the North American Free Trade Agreement flooded Mexico with U.S. corn and drove Mexican farmers to find work, largely in the American Southeast. But by 2007, as Mexico’s economy stabilized and after U.S. border enforcement tightened significantly under President Bill Clinton, more Mexican immigrants were leaving the U.S. than coming.
Between 2007 and 2017, the U.S. saw a net loss of about 2 million Mexican immigrants. In 2017 about 5 million undocumented Mexicans lived in the United States; most of them—83%—were long-term residents, here more than ten years. Only 8% had lived in the U.S. for less than five years. Increasingly, undocumented immigrants were people from around the world who overstayed legal visas, making up more than 40% of the country's undocumented population by 2024.
In 2013 the Senate passed a comprehensive immigration reform measure by a bipartisan vote of 68 to 32. The measure provided a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants and increased border security. It also proposed to increase visas for immigrant workers. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimated the measure would reduce the federal deficit by $197 billion over 10 years and $700 billion over 20 years.
The measure had passed the Senate by a wide margin and was popular with the public. It was expected to pass the House. But then–House speaker John Boehner (R-OH) refused to bring the measure up before the chamber, saying it did not have the support of a majority of Republicans.
About that time, undocumented migration across the southern border was changing. By 2014, people were arriving at the U.S. border from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras, where violence that approached warfare—much of it caused by gangs whose members had been socialized into gang culture in the U.S.—and economic stress from that violence created refugees. These migrants were not coming over the border for economic opportunity; they were refugees applying for asylum—a legal process in the United States.
Before the 2014 midterm elections, Republicans highlighted the new migrants at the southern border, although immigration numbers remained relatively stable. They also highlighted the death from the Ebola virus of a Liberian visitor to the U.S. and the infection of two of his nurses. They attacked the Democratic administration of President Barack Obama for downplaying the danger of the disease to the U.S. public and suggested foreigners should be kept out of the U.S. (In fact, the only Americans who contracted the virus in the U.S. were the two nurses who treated the Liberian visitor.)
Despite his own history of using undocumented workers at his properties, Trump followed this practice of using immigration against the Democratic administration for political points, launching his presidential campaign in 2015 by claiming Mexico was sending “people that have lots of problems…. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.” He promised mass deportation and to build a wall across the southern border and make Mexico pay for it.
In fact, Trump’s administration deported significantly fewer undocumented immigrants than Obama’s had, at least in part because Immigration and Customs Enforcement under Obama focused on deporting those who had been convicted of crimes, a much easier deportation process than that for immigrants without convictions. But it was still legal to apply for asylum in the U.S., a fact MAGA Republicans opposed as they embraced the “Great Replacement” theory: the idea that immigration destroys a nation’s culture and identity.
The covid pandemic enabled the Trump administration in March 2020 to close the border and turn back asylum seekers under an emergency health authority known as Title 42, which can be invoked to keep out illness. Title 42 overrode the right to request asylum. But it also took away the legal consequences for trying to cross the border illegally, meaning migrants tried repeatedly, driving up the numbers of border encounters between U.S. agents and migrants and increasing the number of successful attempts from about 10,000–15,000 per month to a peak of more than 85,000.
Title 42 was still in effect in January 2021, when President Joe Biden took office. Immediately, Biden sent an immigration bill to Congress to modernize and fund immigration processes, including border enforcement and immigration courts—which had backlogs of more than 1.6 million people whose cases took an average of five years to get decided—and provide a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants.
His request got nowhere as MAGA Republicans demanded the continuation of Title 42 as a general immigration measure to keep out migrants and accused Biden of wanting “open borders.” But Title 42 is an emergency public health authority, and when the administration declared the covid emergency over in May 2023, the rule no longer applied.
In the meantime, migrants had surged to the border, driven from their home countries or countries to which they had previously moved by the slow economic recoveries of those countries after the worst of the pandemic. The booming U.S. economy pulled them north. To move desperately needed migrants into the U.S. workforce, Biden extended temporary protected status to about 472,000 Venezuelans who were in the U.S. before July 31, 2023. The Biden administration also expanded temporary humanitarian admissions for people from Cuba, Haiti, and Nicaragua.
Then, in October 2023, House speaker Mike Johnson (R-LA) injected the idea of an immigration bill back into the political discussion when he tried to stop the passage of a national security measure that would provide aid to Ukraine. He said the House would not consider the Senate’s measure unless it contained a border security package. Eager to pass a measure to aid Ukraine, the Senate took him at his word, and a bipartisan group of senators spent the next several months hammering out an immigration bill that was similar to Title 42.
The Senate passed the measure with a bipartisan vote, but under pressure from Trump, who wanted to preserve the issue of immigration for his 2024 campaign, Johnson declared it “dead on arrival” when it reached the House in February 2024. “Only a fool, or a Radical Left Democrat, would vote for this horrendous Border Bill,” Trump posted about the measure.
And then Trump hammered hard on the demonization of immigrants. He lied that Aurora, Colorado, was a “war zone” that had been taken over by Venezuelan gangs—Aurora’s Republican mayor and police chief said this wasn’t true—and that Haitian immigrants to Springfield, Ohio, were “eating the dogs. The people that came in, they are eating the cats. They’re eating—they are eating the pets of the people that live there.” A Gallup poll released Friday shows the MAGA attacks on immigration worked: in 2024, 55% of American adults wanted fewer immigrants in the country.
Trump was reelected in part because of his promise to strengthen border security, but now his administration is using attacks on immigrants to impose a police state. As Andrew Perez and Asawin Suebsaeng reported Saturday in Rolling Stone, the administration is fighting to impose its will on wrongly-deported Maryland man Kilmar Abrego Garcia, whom it rendered to a terrorist prison in El Salvador, because if they are forced to back down, “it could set a precedent that opens the floodgates to other legal challenges” to Trump’s other executive power grabs.
“The last thing you want to do here is contribute to a domino effect of decisions where suddenly you’re admitting you’re wrong about everything,” a close Trump advisor told the reporters. “That is why you gotta stand your ground on everything against the left, including on the [Abrego Garcia] situation.”
But it appears the American people simply want to fix a sixty-year-old mistake in the nation’s immigration laws.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
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0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,566
"I don't support this in any way but people on the left need to realize that folks who came here illegally are all on the precipice of committing serious crimes based on the circumstances of them just being here."
Wow.... just pathetic.... racism not even hiding
Whoever said that (I actually don't want to know) either doesn't have a clue what they are talking about, or is completely trolling here (I'm guessing the latter). Either way, "racist" very much sounds likely for someone who would say something like that.
"I don't support this in any way but people on the left need to realize that folks who came here illegally are all on the precipice of committing serious crimes based on the circumstances of them just being here."
Wow.... just pathetic.... racism not even hiding
Whoever said that (I actually don't want to know) either doesn't have a clue what they are talking about, or is completely trolling here (I'm guessing the latter). Either way, "racist" very much sounds likely for someone who would say something like that.
Copied from something Lerxst1992 wrote above..I just didn't copy/ paste whole thing. Just the part that stood out as awful.
Representative
Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL) said: “These detainees are living in
cages. The pictures you've seen don't do it justice. They are
essentially packed into cages. Wall to wall humans. Thirty-two detainees
per cage…. There are three tiny toilets that…have a sink attached to
it, so…they get their drinking water and they brush their teeth where
they poop, in the same unit." Nine hundred men are currently in the
facility.
The person whom wrote this has obviously never been to prison. The toilets and sink are always a combination unit. They must also have some crazy bathroom where the sink isn't next to their toilet...
Did you watch her presser? Go ahead tell me how it makes sense for you to say this^^^^
Jose I built prisons for 15 years. This isn't anything new or obscene. We installed these as common industry practice. Again, this congresswoman must have her sink in another room from her toilet. My toilets are next to my sinks as I'm sure yours are too. Jose I am used to this, nothing new to me. Below is a typical combi unit. This is the uproar. Below that is a toilet right next to a sink in a house that is typical for millions of people... Imagine people at home brushing their teeth where they poop... It's a bullshit uproar. I still think the administration is going to get sued to the teeth for how they are apprehending people. They did this in NY a few years back and the counties paid out millions.
Representative
Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL) said: “These detainees are living in
cages. The pictures you've seen don't do it justice. They are
essentially packed into cages. Wall to wall humans. Thirty-two detainees
per cage…. There are three tiny toilets that…have a sink attached to
it, so…they get their drinking water and they brush their teeth where
they poop, in the same unit." Nine hundred men are currently in the
facility.
The person whom wrote this has obviously never been to prison. The toilets and sink are always a combination unit. They must also have some crazy bathroom where the sink isn't next to their toilet...
Did you watch her presser? Go ahead tell me how it makes sense for you to say this^^^^
Jose I built prisons for 15 years. This isn't anything new or obscene. We installed these as common industry practice. Again, this congresswoman must have her sink in another room from her toilet. My toilets are next to my sinks as I'm sure yours are too. Jose I am used to this, nothing new to me. Below is a typical combi unit. This is the uproar. Below that is a toilet right next to a sink in a house that is typical for millions of people... Imagine people at home brushing their teeth where they poop... It's a bullshit uproar. I still think the administration is going to get sued to the teeth for how they are apprehending people. They did this in NY a few years back and the counties paid out millions.
prison cell holds no more than 2.
how many are in these chain link cells at one time? not to mention no walls at all for some modicum of privacy.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
But if it’s a need to keep score and the point is to say, "look Obama and Biden too", then fine. Obama and Biden too were wrong.
If it’s always wrong, is it wrong in jail, prisons and drunk tanks too? Because that’s been common use for about 75 years there. But I’ve yet to hear a single member of congress complain about someone in a drum tank washing their hands where they poop. One reason it seemed so out of place to play the race card and call me racist. I’m not saying immigrants deserve less, I’m saying it’s been common practice for a very long time. And only now, and only for ICE detention centers is anyone complaining about it. If it’s wrong and inhumane, then it’s wrong for everyone, right?
Now a lot of people took my comment on the sinks to say I’m normalizing everything Trump is doing. I’ll say it for about the 6th time, I’m not. I don’t agree with his rhetoric, the round ups, the mass deportation, the concept of alligator Alcatraz, etc. But when the main complaint I keep saying is calling them cages and saying they poop and brush their teeth in the same unit, when they haven’t said anything about it in the last 15 years, I can’t help but roll my eyes at those comments.
Dude I rolled my eyes at the comment of pooping where you brush your teeth too. See my above response.
Comments
Where was the outrage in 2012 when many of those “cages” were built?
Remember in 2018 when those pictures came out and everyone was furious at Trump over the conditions….until they learned the pictures were from 2014?
If you don’t complain in 2012, 2014, 2022 about the “cages” you are either disingenuous or uninformed about the facilities. And I don’t mean that as an insult, maybe people really don’t know they’ve been used by ice for over a decade and they’ve been in prisons since the 50s.
I’ll say it again, I’m against the ice roundups. I’m against mass deportation. I’m against inhumane treatment of illegal immigrants. But these holding facilities have been around a long time and people are only now getting upset over the use of fencing and combo sinks.
But when you have a less than magnanimous commander in chief (one who seems to delight in making people he doesn't like miserable), theres certainly going to be more attention drawn to it and show in the light its cruelty. So I get why more and more people are waking up to it.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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Yep they did. But there is a large gap between a judicial decision and the daily execution. Ask a CBP employee if they care about that decision. And we have a president who is not afraid of judges. Ever been stopped by a cop without Miranda rights being read? Actual citizens get hassled, many times bordering on unlawful, all the time. You can shout due process all you want from your jail cell. It will not get you out.
The logic around the practice versus the constitution doesn’t square and too many ‘Muricans are willingly giving up their rights in the process, either because of expense, their perception of white privilege and it can’t happen to them, the cruelty of it all because “somebody” has to pay, stupidity (there was a bi-partisan border bill but you know), or some combination of all these.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Not here to battle, just stating my opinion. And I have done a huge amount of work with US government agencies. We could probably learn something from Canada.
It might not be that difficult for an undocumented person to commit serious crimes. If they all get in a car and goto the ball game, whoever drives is committing a crime "domestic transportation of unauthorized aliens."
If someone allows an undocumented person to sleep in their basement it could be viewed as "conceal, harbor, or shield from detection” an undocumented person.
I don't support this in any way but people on the left need to realize that folks who came here illegally are all on the precipice of committing serious crimes based on the circumstances of them just being here. So they got a quick hearing it's not going to change much. And the Latinos and other Central American groups voted for this
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
One reason it seemed so out of place to play the race card and call me racist. I’m not saying immigrants deserve less, I’m saying it’s been common practice for a very long time. And only now, and only for ICE detention centers is anyone complaining about it. If it’s wrong and inhumane, then it’s wrong for everyone, right?
Now a lot of people took my comment on the sinks to say I’m normalizing everything Trump is doing. I’ll say it for about the 6th time, I’m not. I don’t agree with his rhetoric, the round ups, the mass deportation, the concept of alligator Alcatraz, etc. But when the main complaint I keep saying is calling them cages and saying they poop and brush their teeth in the same unit, when they haven’t said anything about it in the last 15 years, I can’t help but roll my eyes at those comments.
Wow.... just pathetic.... racism not even hiding
Trump appointees insist they have a “mandate” to drive undocumented immigrants out of the U.S. and prevent new immigrants from coming in, and are launching a massive increase in Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers and detention facilities to do so. But a poll released Friday shows that only 35% of American adults approve of Trump’s handling of immigration, while 62% disapprove.
The poll shows a record 79% of adults saying immigration is good for the country, with only 17% seeing it as bad. Only 30% of American adults say immigration should be reduced.
The poll shows that 85% of American adults want laws to allow “immigrants, who were brought to the U.S. illegally as children, the chance to become U.S. citizens if they meet certain requirements over a period of time.” Seventy-eight percent of American adults want the law to allow “immigrants living in the U.S. illegally the chance to become U.S. citizens if they meet certain requirements over a period of time.” Only 38% want the government to deport “all immigrants who are living in the United States illegally back to their home country.”
The poll shows Americans eager to fix a problem that stems from a bipartisan 1965 law that reworked America's immigration laws.
In 1924, during a period of opposition to immigration that fueled the second rise of the Ku Klux Klan, Congress had passed the nation's first comprehensive immigration law. That law, known as the Johnson-Reed Act, limited immigration according to quotas assigned to each country. Those quotas were heavily weighted toward western Europe, virtually prohibiting immigration from Asia and Africa and dramatically curtailing it from southern Europe.
The Johnson-Reed Act simply taxed workers coming to the U.S. from Mexico, because from the time the current border was set in 1848 until the 1930s, people moved back and forth across it. Laborers in particular came from Mexico to work for the huge American agribusinesses that dominate the agricultural sector, especially after 1907 when the Japanese workers who had been taking over those jobs were unofficially kept out of the country by the so-called “Gentlemen’s Agreement.” Later, during World War I, the government encouraged immigration to help increase production.
The Depression, when the bottom fell out of the economy, coupled with the Dust Bowl, when the bottom fell out of the western plains, made destitute white Americans turn on Mexican migrants (as well as on their poor white neighbors, as John Steinbeck wrote about in The Grapes of Wrath). The government rounded up Mexicans and shipped them back over the border.
World War II created another shortage of laborers, and to regularize the system of migrant labor, the U.S. government in 1942 started a guest worker policy called the Bracero Program that ultimately brought more than 4 million Mexican workers to the U.S. The program was supposed to guarantee that migrant workers were well treated and adequately paid and housed. But it didn’t work out that way. Employers hired illegal as well as legal workers and treated them poorly. American workers complained about competition.
President Dwight D. Eisenhower returned about a million illegal workers in 1954 under "Operation Wetback," only to have officials readmit most of them as braceros. Under pressure both from labor and from reformers who recognized that the system was exploitative at the same time that mechanization began replacing workers, President John F. Kennedy initiated the process that ended the Bracero Program in 1964. In 1965 the government tried to replace migrant labor with American high school students, but the “A-TEAM” project—“Athletes in Temporary Employment as Agricultural Manpower”—failed.
The end of the Bracero program coincided with congressional reworking of the 1924 Johnson-Reed Act. In the midst of the Vietnam War and the Civil Rights Movement, Congress wanted to end the racial quota system of immigration and replace it with one that did not so obviously discriminate against Asia and Africa. In 1965, Congress passed the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, or the Hart-Celler Act. It opened immigration to all nations, setting a general cap on total immigration levels.
But southern congressmen, appalled at the idea of Black immigration, introduced a provision that privileged family migration, arguing that “family unification” should be the nation's top priority. They expected that old-stock immigrants from western Europe would use the provision to bring over their relatives, which would keep the effect of the 1924 law without the statute. But their provision had the opposite effect. It was new immigrants who wanted to bring their families, not old ones. So immigration began to skew heavily toward Asia and Latin America.
At the same time, Hart-Celler put a cap on immigrants from Mexico just as the guest worker program ended. The cap was low: 20,000, although 50,000 workers were coming annually at that point, and American agribusiness depended on migrant labor. Workers continued to come as they always had, and to be employed, as always. But now their presence was illegal.
In 1986, Congress tried to fix the problem of border security between the U.S. and Mexico by offering amnesty to 2.3 million Mexicans who were living in the United States and by cracking down on employers who hired undocumented workers. But rather than ending the problem of undocumented workers, the new law exacerbated it by beginning the process of guarding and militarizing the border. Until then, migrants into the United States had been offset by an equal number leaving at the end of the season. Once the border became heavily guarded, Mexican migrants refused to take the chance of leaving.
Since 1986, U.S. politicians have refused to deal with this disconnect, which grew in the 1990s when the North American Free Trade Agreement flooded Mexico with U.S. corn and drove Mexican farmers to find work, largely in the American Southeast. But by 2007, as Mexico’s economy stabilized and after U.S. border enforcement tightened significantly under President Bill Clinton, more Mexican immigrants were leaving the U.S. than coming.
Between 2007 and 2017, the U.S. saw a net loss of about 2 million Mexican immigrants. In 2017 about 5 million undocumented Mexicans lived in the United States; most of them—83%—were long-term residents, here more than ten years. Only 8% had lived in the U.S. for less than five years. Increasingly, undocumented immigrants were people from around the world who overstayed legal visas, making up more than 40% of the country's undocumented population by 2024.
In 2013 the Senate passed a comprehensive immigration reform measure by a bipartisan vote of 68 to 32. The measure provided a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants and increased border security. It also proposed to increase visas for immigrant workers. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimated the measure would reduce the federal deficit by $197 billion over 10 years and $700 billion over 20 years.
The measure had passed the Senate by a wide margin and was popular with the public. It was expected to pass the House. But then–House speaker John Boehner (R-OH) refused to bring the measure up before the chamber, saying it did not have the support of a majority of Republicans.
About that time, undocumented migration across the southern border was changing. By 2014, people were arriving at the U.S. border from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras, where violence that approached warfare—much of it caused by gangs whose members had been socialized into gang culture in the U.S.—and economic stress from that violence created refugees. These migrants were not coming over the border for economic opportunity; they were refugees applying for asylum—a legal process in the United States.
Before the 2014 midterm elections, Republicans highlighted the new migrants at the southern border, although immigration numbers remained relatively stable. They also highlighted the death from the Ebola virus of a Liberian visitor to the U.S. and the infection of two of his nurses. They attacked the Democratic administration of President Barack Obama for downplaying the danger of the disease to the U.S. public and suggested foreigners should be kept out of the U.S. (In fact, the only Americans who contracted the virus in the U.S. were the two nurses who treated the Liberian visitor.)
Despite his own history of using undocumented workers at his properties, Trump followed this practice of using immigration against the Democratic administration for political points, launching his presidential campaign in 2015 by claiming Mexico was sending “people that have lots of problems…. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.” He promised mass deportation and to build a wall across the southern border and make Mexico pay for it.
In fact, Trump’s administration deported significantly fewer undocumented immigrants than Obama’s had, at least in part because Immigration and Customs Enforcement under Obama focused on deporting those who had been convicted of crimes, a much easier deportation process than that for immigrants without convictions. But it was still legal to apply for asylum in the U.S., a fact MAGA Republicans opposed as they embraced the “Great Replacement” theory: the idea that immigration destroys a nation’s culture and identity.
The covid pandemic enabled the Trump administration in March 2020 to close the border and turn back asylum seekers under an emergency health authority known as Title 42, which can be invoked to keep out illness. Title 42 overrode the right to request asylum. But it also took away the legal consequences for trying to cross the border illegally, meaning migrants tried repeatedly, driving up the numbers of border encounters between U.S. agents and migrants and increasing the number of successful attempts from about 10,000–15,000 per month to a peak of more than 85,000.
Title 42 was still in effect in January 2021, when President Joe Biden took office. Immediately, Biden sent an immigration bill to Congress to modernize and fund immigration processes, including border enforcement and immigration courts—which had backlogs of more than 1.6 million people whose cases took an average of five years to get decided—and provide a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants.
His request got nowhere as MAGA Republicans demanded the continuation of Title 42 as a general immigration measure to keep out migrants and accused Biden of wanting “open borders.” But Title 42 is an emergency public health authority, and when the administration declared the covid emergency over in May 2023, the rule no longer applied.
In the meantime, migrants had surged to the border, driven from their home countries or countries to which they had previously moved by the slow economic recoveries of those countries after the worst of the pandemic. The booming U.S. economy pulled them north. To move desperately needed migrants into the U.S. workforce, Biden extended temporary protected status to about 472,000 Venezuelans who were in the U.S. before July 31, 2023. The Biden administration also expanded temporary humanitarian admissions for people from Cuba, Haiti, and Nicaragua.
Then, in October 2023, House speaker Mike Johnson (R-LA) injected the idea of an immigration bill back into the political discussion when he tried to stop the passage of a national security measure that would provide aid to Ukraine. He said the House would not consider the Senate’s measure unless it contained a border security package. Eager to pass a measure to aid Ukraine, the Senate took him at his word, and a bipartisan group of senators spent the next several months hammering out an immigration bill that was similar to Title 42.
The Senate passed the measure with a bipartisan vote, but under pressure from Trump, who wanted to preserve the issue of immigration for his 2024 campaign, Johnson declared it “dead on arrival” when it reached the House in February 2024. “Only a fool, or a Radical Left Democrat, would vote for this horrendous Border Bill,” Trump posted about the measure.
And then Trump hammered hard on the demonization of immigrants. He lied that Aurora, Colorado, was a “war zone” that had been taken over by Venezuelan gangs—Aurora’s Republican mayor and police chief said this wasn’t true—and that Haitian immigrants to Springfield, Ohio, were “eating the dogs. The people that came in, they are eating the cats. They’re eating—they are eating the pets of the people that live there.” A Gallup poll released Friday shows the MAGA attacks on immigration worked: in 2024, 55% of American adults wanted fewer immigrants in the country.
Trump was reelected in part because of his promise to strengthen border security, but now his administration is using attacks on immigrants to impose a police state. As Andrew Perez and Asawin Suebsaeng reported Saturday in Rolling Stone, the administration is fighting to impose its will on wrongly-deported Maryland man Kilmar Abrego Garcia, whom it rendered to a terrorist prison in El Salvador, because if they are forced to back down, “it could set a precedent that opens the floodgates to other legal challenges” to Trump’s other executive power grabs.
“The last thing you want to do here is contribute to a domino effect of decisions where suddenly you’re admitting you’re wrong about everything,” a close Trump advisor told the reporters. “That is why you gotta stand your ground on everything against the left, including on the [Abrego Garcia] situation.”
But it appears the American people simply want to fix a sixty-year-old mistake in the nation’s immigration laws.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Jose I am used to this, nothing new to me. Below is a typical combi unit. This is the uproar. Below that is a toilet right next to a sink in a house that is typical for millions of people... Imagine people at home brushing their teeth where they poop...
It's a bullshit uproar.
I still think the administration is going to get sued to the teeth for how they are apprehending people. They did this in NY a few years back and the counties paid out millions.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14