Dave Abbruzzese Statement on The Drummer Situation
Comments
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what is your criteria for "brought to the table"? as a drummer who played on two albums, he brought just as much as Jack did. More than Dave K did. More than Matt Chamberlain did.Merkin Baller said:
I think the nostalgia for that time period clouds people's perception of what he brought to the table.HughFreakingDillon said:
for sure, I just think for people to question why he keeps getting brought up-well, I think it's pretty obvious-he drummed on the Ten tour, he played and helped create VS and Vitalogy, which is pretty heavy nostalgia for a lot of people (I'd say most fans say the first 3 records is their favourite period). MANY folks dropped off after Dave was fired, not because he was fired, but because they didn't like the change in style. Some people just prefer his drumming-totally subjective. I don't think No Code or Yield happen without Jack-Dave's style just wouldn't have suited that writing.Merkin Baller said:
Your point about Dave's contributions not being limited because of the timing works both ways... it shouldn't be overstated because of the timing either, The follow up albums to Ten were going to happen regardless of who was behind the kit. One can argue they may not have been as big as they were if they had a different drummer, but based on the success of Ten, we can assume at least VS still would have done pretty damn well.HughFreakingDillon said:
does this also then apply to Jack?Merkin Baller said:Dave A wrote a couple great songs for them, for sure. Despite that. his contribution to this band has been greatly over romanticized, and to sociopearljam's point, not even remotely relative to the amount of discussion or agita it's generated.
He's good, but I wouldn't call him a great drummer... he's certainly no better than the 4th best to have played for this band.
Dave actually was with them when they were still playing small clubs, as Gern pointed out. It's not super typical for a drummer to contribute to songwriting. I'm not one of "they should get dave back in the band" people, but his contributions shouldn't be limited just because of the time period he was in the band. I mean, people are also talking about Dave K, who was in the band an even shorter time and only drummed on 1 record.
Do No Code and Yield happen without Jack? Does PJ even continue as a band if he doesn't show up? There's a lot less certainty there, I think.
Regarding your last point, I'm not one of the people clamoring for Dave K (that has me scratching my head)... I'm not clamoring for ANY of their past drummers to return. I don't want sentimentality to factor into where they go next.
I don't think his contributions are overstated, honestly. I think people just talk about him the most because of the circumstances surrounding his departure and my points above.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
Reminds me of David Lee Roth.Sarava said:He keeps reminding me of Dave Mustaine - who also can't let go of Metallica firing him over 40 years ago.0 -
I know a few fans who chipped in and bought his old storage units. Don't think he's comfortableJK109224 said:I wouldn't be feeling sorry for Dave A in terms of finances. He'd do quite well from royalties alone. Does he have $10 million? No. But he would be very comfortable.0 -
He did not explicitly say he wants to come back. Quite the opposite, in fact.HughFreakingDillon said:
I follow him on facebook. I was absolutely FLOORED that he said he'd be willing to return, given all that he has said about the band literally a few days before. He keeps going on and on and on about how they aren't the same band, the band's output basically sucked since he left. Why would you want to drum with a band if you hate the majority of the catalogue?Sarava said:He keeps reminding me of Dave Mustaine - who also can't let go of Metallica firing him over 40 years ago.#Grievance20250 -
My criteria is a lot more than just the # of albums each guy played on.HughFreakingDillon said:
what is your criteria for "brought to the table"? as a drummer who played on two albums, he brought just as much as Jack did. More than Dave K did. More than Matt Chamberlain did.Merkin Baller said:
I think the nostalgia for that time period clouds people's perception of what he brought to the table.HughFreakingDillon said:
for sure, I just think for people to question why he keeps getting brought up-well, I think it's pretty obvious-he drummed on the Ten tour, he played and helped create VS and Vitalogy, which is pretty heavy nostalgia for a lot of people (I'd say most fans say the first 3 records is their favourite period). MANY folks dropped off after Dave was fired, not because he was fired, but because they didn't like the change in style. Some people just prefer his drumming-totally subjective. I don't think No Code or Yield happen without Jack-Dave's style just wouldn't have suited that writing.Merkin Baller said:
Your point about Dave's contributions not being limited because of the timing works both ways... it shouldn't be overstated because of the timing either, The follow up albums to Ten were going to happen regardless of who was behind the kit. One can argue they may not have been as big as they were if they had a different drummer, but based on the success of Ten, we can assume at least VS still would have done pretty damn well.HughFreakingDillon said:
does this also then apply to Jack?Merkin Baller said:Dave A wrote a couple great songs for them, for sure. Despite that. his contribution to this band has been greatly over romanticized, and to sociopearljam's point, not even remotely relative to the amount of discussion or agita it's generated.
He's good, but I wouldn't call him a great drummer... he's certainly no better than the 4th best to have played for this band.
Dave actually was with them when they were still playing small clubs, as Gern pointed out. It's not super typical for a drummer to contribute to songwriting. I'm not one of "they should get dave back in the band" people, but his contributions shouldn't be limited just because of the time period he was in the band. I mean, people are also talking about Dave K, who was in the band an even shorter time and only drummed on 1 record.
Do No Code and Yield happen without Jack? Does PJ even continue as a band if he doesn't show up? There's a lot less certainty there, I think.
Regarding your last point, I'm not one of the people clamoring for Dave K (that has me scratching my head)... I'm not clamoring for ANY of their past drummers to return. I don't want sentimentality to factor into where they go next.
I don't think his contributions are overstated, honestly. I think people just talk about him the most because of the circumstances surrounding his departure and my points above.
IDK how you can ignore the context of where the band was at when each drummer joined. As someone mentioned, Dave A got on a rocket ship as it was taking off. JI arguably saved them from breaking up and inspired them to a new sound and direction.
From that perspective, I would say JI brought way more to the table for PJ than Dave A.0 -
this says to me if he got the call he wouldn't hestitate:Shaindli1 said:
He did not explicitly say he wants to come back. Quite the opposite, in fact.HughFreakingDillon said:
I follow him on facebook. I was absolutely FLOORED that he said he'd be willing to return, given all that he has said about the band literally a few days before. He keeps going on and on and on about how they aren't the same band, the band's output basically sucked since he left. Why would you want to drum with a band if you hate the majority of the catalogue?Sarava said:He keeps reminding me of Dave Mustaine - who also can't let go of Metallica firing him over 40 years ago.
.I know I could and would have much to contribute if indeed the call came, but sadly, I don't see that happeningBy The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
And Jack took over FROM Dave A. They got to the verge of breakup with him in the band. Not saying it’s his fault but his presence wasn’t helping the way Jack’s did.Merkin Baller said:
My criteria is a lot more than just the # of albums each guy played on.HughFreakingDillon said:
what is your criteria for "brought to the table"? as a drummer who played on two albums, he brought just as much as Jack did. More than Dave K did. More than Matt Chamberlain did.Merkin Baller said:
I think the nostalgia for that time period clouds people's perception of what he brought to the table.HughFreakingDillon said:
for sure, I just think for people to question why he keeps getting brought up-well, I think it's pretty obvious-he drummed on the Ten tour, he played and helped create VS and Vitalogy, which is pretty heavy nostalgia for a lot of people (I'd say most fans say the first 3 records is their favourite period). MANY folks dropped off after Dave was fired, not because he was fired, but because they didn't like the change in style. Some people just prefer his drumming-totally subjective. I don't think No Code or Yield happen without Jack-Dave's style just wouldn't have suited that writing.Merkin Baller said:
Your point about Dave's contributions not being limited because of the timing works both ways... it shouldn't be overstated because of the timing either, The follow up albums to Ten were going to happen regardless of who was behind the kit. One can argue they may not have been as big as they were if they had a different drummer, but based on the success of Ten, we can assume at least VS still would have done pretty damn well.HughFreakingDillon said:
does this also then apply to Jack?Merkin Baller said:Dave A wrote a couple great songs for them, for sure. Despite that. his contribution to this band has been greatly over romanticized, and to sociopearljam's point, not even remotely relative to the amount of discussion or agita it's generated.
He's good, but I wouldn't call him a great drummer... he's certainly no better than the 4th best to have played for this band.
Dave actually was with them when they were still playing small clubs, as Gern pointed out. It's not super typical for a drummer to contribute to songwriting. I'm not one of "they should get dave back in the band" people, but his contributions shouldn't be limited just because of the time period he was in the band. I mean, people are also talking about Dave K, who was in the band an even shorter time and only drummed on 1 record.
Do No Code and Yield happen without Jack? Does PJ even continue as a band if he doesn't show up? There's a lot less certainty there, I think.
Regarding your last point, I'm not one of the people clamoring for Dave K (that has me scratching my head)... I'm not clamoring for ANY of their past drummers to return. I don't want sentimentality to factor into where they go next.
I don't think his contributions are overstated, honestly. I think people just talk about him the most because of the circumstances surrounding his departure and my points above.
IDK how you can ignore the context of where the band was at when each drummer joined. As someone mentioned, Dave A got on a rocket ship as it was taking off. JI arguably saved them from breaking up and inspired them to a new sound and direction.
From that perspective, I would say JI brought way more to the table for PJ than Dave A.0 -
it wasn't a rocketship when he joined. he joined before the band was known. it took nearly a full year for the band to blow up after Ten was released.Merkin Baller said:
My criteria is a lot more than just the # of albums each guy played on.HughFreakingDillon said:
what is your criteria for "brought to the table"? as a drummer who played on two albums, he brought just as much as Jack did. More than Dave K did. More than Matt Chamberlain did.Merkin Baller said:
I think the nostalgia for that time period clouds people's perception of what he brought to the table.HughFreakingDillon said:
for sure, I just think for people to question why he keeps getting brought up-well, I think it's pretty obvious-he drummed on the Ten tour, he played and helped create VS and Vitalogy, which is pretty heavy nostalgia for a lot of people (I'd say most fans say the first 3 records is their favourite period). MANY folks dropped off after Dave was fired, not because he was fired, but because they didn't like the change in style. Some people just prefer his drumming-totally subjective. I don't think No Code or Yield happen without Jack-Dave's style just wouldn't have suited that writing.Merkin Baller said:
Your point about Dave's contributions not being limited because of the timing works both ways... it shouldn't be overstated because of the timing either, The follow up albums to Ten were going to happen regardless of who was behind the kit. One can argue they may not have been as big as they were if they had a different drummer, but based on the success of Ten, we can assume at least VS still would have done pretty damn well.HughFreakingDillon said:
does this also then apply to Jack?Merkin Baller said:Dave A wrote a couple great songs for them, for sure. Despite that. his contribution to this band has been greatly over romanticized, and to sociopearljam's point, not even remotely relative to the amount of discussion or agita it's generated.
He's good, but I wouldn't call him a great drummer... he's certainly no better than the 4th best to have played for this band.
Dave actually was with them when they were still playing small clubs, as Gern pointed out. It's not super typical for a drummer to contribute to songwriting. I'm not one of "they should get dave back in the band" people, but his contributions shouldn't be limited just because of the time period he was in the band. I mean, people are also talking about Dave K, who was in the band an even shorter time and only drummed on 1 record.
Do No Code and Yield happen without Jack? Does PJ even continue as a band if he doesn't show up? There's a lot less certainty there, I think.
Regarding your last point, I'm not one of the people clamoring for Dave K (that has me scratching my head)... I'm not clamoring for ANY of their past drummers to return. I don't want sentimentality to factor into where they go next.
I don't think his contributions are overstated, honestly. I think people just talk about him the most because of the circumstances surrounding his departure and my points above.
IDK how you can ignore the context of where the band was at when each drummer joined. As someone mentioned, Dave A got on a rocket ship as it was taking off. JI arguably saved them from breaking up and inspired them to a new sound and direction.
From that perspective, I would say JI brought way more to the table for PJ than Dave A.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
It’s not just nostalgia, it’s arguably 2 of their best albums he was on. If there wasn’t a vs and vitalogy, there might not be a RRHOF. It was their most successful period.Merkin Baller said:
I think the nostalgia for that time period clouds people's perception of what he brought to the table.HughFreakingDillon said:
for sure, I just think for people to question why he keeps getting brought up-well, I think it's pretty obvious-he drummed on the Ten tour, he played and helped create VS and Vitalogy, which is pretty heavy nostalgia for a lot of people (I'd say most fans say the first 3 records is their favourite period). MANY folks dropped off after Dave was fired, not because he was fired, but because they didn't like the change in style. Some people just prefer his drumming-totally subjective. I don't think No Code or Yield happen without Jack-Dave's style just wouldn't have suited that writing.Merkin Baller said:
Your point about Dave's contributions not being limited because of the timing works both ways... it shouldn't be overstated because of the timing either, The follow up albums to Ten were going to happen regardless of who was behind the kit. One can argue they may not have been as big as they were if they had a different drummer, but based on the success of Ten, we can assume at least VS still would have done pretty damn well.HughFreakingDillon said:
does this also then apply to Jack?Merkin Baller said:Dave A wrote a couple great songs for them, for sure. Despite that. his contribution to this band has been greatly over romanticized, and to sociopearljam's point, not even remotely relative to the amount of discussion or agita it's generated.
He's good, but I wouldn't call him a great drummer... he's certainly no better than the 4th best to have played for this band.
Dave actually was with them when they were still playing small clubs, as Gern pointed out. It's not super typical for a drummer to contribute to songwriting. I'm not one of "they should get dave back in the band" people, but his contributions shouldn't be limited just because of the time period he was in the band. I mean, people are also talking about Dave K, who was in the band an even shorter time and only drummed on 1 record.
Do No Code and Yield happen without Jack? Does PJ even continue as a band if he doesn't show up? There's a lot less certainty there, I think.
Regarding your last point, I'm not one of the people clamoring for Dave K (that has me scratching my head)... I'm not clamoring for ANY of their past drummers to return. I don't want sentimentality to factor into where they go next.
I don't think his contributions are overstated, honestly. I think people just talk about him the most because of the circumstances surrounding his departure and my points above.
It’s hard to ignore the guy when he was partially responsible for their best and most successful period of music. I can see why he’s bitter about the HOF, I would be too.
That being said, if he was fired over personal conflicts and they haven’t been in touch for 30 years, no reason to think it’d be any better now. Seeing him back would be awesome, but only if the band feels that way too. Doubt they do.0 -
Serious question:
After PJ what was the best/well known band Dave A played in?0 -
Do you think Ten doesn’t take off the way it did if they don’t hire Dave A?HughFreakingDillon said:
it wasn't a rocketship when he joined. he joined before the band was known. it took nearly a full year for the band to blow up after Ten was released.Merkin Baller said:
My criteria is a lot more than just the # of albums each guy played on.HughFreakingDillon said:
what is your criteria for "brought to the table"? as a drummer who played on two albums, he brought just as much as Jack did. More than Dave K did. More than Matt Chamberlain did.Merkin Baller said:
I think the nostalgia for that time period clouds people's perception of what he brought to the table.HughFreakingDillon said:
for sure, I just think for people to question why he keeps getting brought up-well, I think it's pretty obvious-he drummed on the Ten tour, he played and helped create VS and Vitalogy, which is pretty heavy nostalgia for a lot of people (I'd say most fans say the first 3 records is their favourite period). MANY folks dropped off after Dave was fired, not because he was fired, but because they didn't like the change in style. Some people just prefer his drumming-totally subjective. I don't think No Code or Yield happen without Jack-Dave's style just wouldn't have suited that writing.Merkin Baller said:
Your point about Dave's contributions not being limited because of the timing works both ways... it shouldn't be overstated because of the timing either, The follow up albums to Ten were going to happen regardless of who was behind the kit. One can argue they may not have been as big as they were if they had a different drummer, but based on the success of Ten, we can assume at least VS still would have done pretty damn well.HughFreakingDillon said:
does this also then apply to Jack?Merkin Baller said:Dave A wrote a couple great songs for them, for sure. Despite that. his contribution to this band has been greatly over romanticized, and to sociopearljam's point, not even remotely relative to the amount of discussion or agita it's generated.
He's good, but I wouldn't call him a great drummer... he's certainly no better than the 4th best to have played for this band.
Dave actually was with them when they were still playing small clubs, as Gern pointed out. It's not super typical for a drummer to contribute to songwriting. I'm not one of "they should get dave back in the band" people, but his contributions shouldn't be limited just because of the time period he was in the band. I mean, people are also talking about Dave K, who was in the band an even shorter time and only drummed on 1 record.
Do No Code and Yield happen without Jack? Does PJ even continue as a band if he doesn't show up? There's a lot less certainty there, I think.
Regarding your last point, I'm not one of the people clamoring for Dave K (that has me scratching my head)... I'm not clamoring for ANY of their past drummers to return. I don't want sentimentality to factor into where they go next.
I don't think his contributions are overstated, honestly. I think people just talk about him the most because of the circumstances surrounding his departure and my points above.
IDK how you can ignore the context of where the band was at when each drummer joined. As someone mentioned, Dave A got on a rocket ship as it was taking off. JI arguably saved them from breaking up and inspired them to a new sound and direction.
From that perspective, I would say JI brought way more to the table for PJ than Dave A.
He’s a textbook example of right place / right time.0 -
Yeah… Two albums that would have happened regardless of who the drummer was.mace1229 said:
It’s not just nostalgia, it’s arguably 2 of their best albums he was on. If there wasn’t a vs and vitalogy, there might not be a RRHOF. It was their most successful period.Merkin Baller said:
I think the nostalgia for that time period clouds people's perception of what he brought to the table.HughFreakingDillon said:
for sure, I just think for people to question why he keeps getting brought up-well, I think it's pretty obvious-he drummed on the Ten tour, he played and helped create VS and Vitalogy, which is pretty heavy nostalgia for a lot of people (I'd say most fans say the first 3 records is their favourite period). MANY folks dropped off after Dave was fired, not because he was fired, but because they didn't like the change in style. Some people just prefer his drumming-totally subjective. I don't think No Code or Yield happen without Jack-Dave's style just wouldn't have suited that writing.Merkin Baller said:
Your point about Dave's contributions not being limited because of the timing works both ways... it shouldn't be overstated because of the timing either, The follow up albums to Ten were going to happen regardless of who was behind the kit. One can argue they may not have been as big as they were if they had a different drummer, but based on the success of Ten, we can assume at least VS still would have done pretty damn well.HughFreakingDillon said:
does this also then apply to Jack?Merkin Baller said:Dave A wrote a couple great songs for them, for sure. Despite that. his contribution to this band has been greatly over romanticized, and to sociopearljam's point, not even remotely relative to the amount of discussion or agita it's generated.
He's good, but I wouldn't call him a great drummer... he's certainly no better than the 4th best to have played for this band.
Dave actually was with them when they were still playing small clubs, as Gern pointed out. It's not super typical for a drummer to contribute to songwriting. I'm not one of "they should get dave back in the band" people, but his contributions shouldn't be limited just because of the time period he was in the band. I mean, people are also talking about Dave K, who was in the band an even shorter time and only drummed on 1 record.
Do No Code and Yield happen without Jack? Does PJ even continue as a band if he doesn't show up? There's a lot less certainty there, I think.
Regarding your last point, I'm not one of the people clamoring for Dave K (that has me scratching my head)... I'm not clamoring for ANY of their past drummers to return. I don't want sentimentality to factor into where they go next.
I don't think his contributions are overstated, honestly. I think people just talk about him the most because of the circumstances surrounding his departure and my points above.
It’s hard to ignore the guy when he was partially responsible for their best and most successful period of music. I can see why he’s bitter about the HOF, I would be too.
That being said, if he was fired over personal conflicts and they haven’t been in touch for 30 years, no reason to think it’d be any better now. Seeing him back would be awesome, but only if the band feels that way too. Doubt they do.Idk who’s ignoring the guy, I’m sure not… I just don’t think he was a lynchpin for their success, at least not enough to warrant so much fuss.0 -
now you're changing the argument. Yes, he was right place right time, no doubt. But people were claiming he wasn't "in the trenches with the band" that he joined when they were already famous. Not true. He played the small shitty clubs with them. Of course it still would have taken off, but to say he joined when the band were already famous is false.Merkin Baller said:
Do you think Ten doesn’t take off the way it did if they don’t hire Dave A?HughFreakingDillon said:
it wasn't a rocketship when he joined. he joined before the band was known. it took nearly a full year for the band to blow up after Ten was released.Merkin Baller said:
My criteria is a lot more than just the # of albums each guy played on.HughFreakingDillon said:
what is your criteria for "brought to the table"? as a drummer who played on two albums, he brought just as much as Jack did. More than Dave K did. More than Matt Chamberlain did.Merkin Baller said:
I think the nostalgia for that time period clouds people's perception of what he brought to the table.HughFreakingDillon said:
for sure, I just think for people to question why he keeps getting brought up-well, I think it's pretty obvious-he drummed on the Ten tour, he played and helped create VS and Vitalogy, which is pretty heavy nostalgia for a lot of people (I'd say most fans say the first 3 records is their favourite period). MANY folks dropped off after Dave was fired, not because he was fired, but because they didn't like the change in style. Some people just prefer his drumming-totally subjective. I don't think No Code or Yield happen without Jack-Dave's style just wouldn't have suited that writing.Merkin Baller said:
Your point about Dave's contributions not being limited because of the timing works both ways... it shouldn't be overstated because of the timing either, The follow up albums to Ten were going to happen regardless of who was behind the kit. One can argue they may not have been as big as they were if they had a different drummer, but based on the success of Ten, we can assume at least VS still would have done pretty damn well.HughFreakingDillon said:
does this also then apply to Jack?Merkin Baller said:Dave A wrote a couple great songs for them, for sure. Despite that. his contribution to this band has been greatly over romanticized, and to sociopearljam's point, not even remotely relative to the amount of discussion or agita it's generated.
He's good, but I wouldn't call him a great drummer... he's certainly no better than the 4th best to have played for this band.
Dave actually was with them when they were still playing small clubs, as Gern pointed out. It's not super typical for a drummer to contribute to songwriting. I'm not one of "they should get dave back in the band" people, but his contributions shouldn't be limited just because of the time period he was in the band. I mean, people are also talking about Dave K, who was in the band an even shorter time and only drummed on 1 record.
Do No Code and Yield happen without Jack? Does PJ even continue as a band if he doesn't show up? There's a lot less certainty there, I think.
Regarding your last point, I'm not one of the people clamoring for Dave K (that has me scratching my head)... I'm not clamoring for ANY of their past drummers to return. I don't want sentimentality to factor into where they go next.
I don't think his contributions are overstated, honestly. I think people just talk about him the most because of the circumstances surrounding his departure and my points above.
IDK how you can ignore the context of where the band was at when each drummer joined. As someone mentioned, Dave A got on a rocket ship as it was taking off. JI arguably saved them from breaking up and inspired them to a new sound and direction.
From that perspective, I would say JI brought way more to the table for PJ than Dave A.
He’s a textbook example of right place / right time.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
I think you could have replaced Dave a with any other drummer at the time and pearl
jam would have still gotten way famous. However if jack irons didn’t enter the picture then there is a great possibility pj could have broken up thirty years ago.I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
they would have gotten famous with Ten for SURE. But Dave's drumming on VS especially was significant and helped propel them to that next stage.
By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
HughFreakingDillon said:
now you're changing the argument. Yes, he was right place right time, no doubt. But people were claiming he wasn't "in the trenches with the band" that he joined when they were already famous. Not true. He played the small shitty clubs with them. Of course it still would have taken off, but to say he joined when the band were already famous is false.Merkin Baller said:
Do you think Ten doesn’t take off the way it did if they don’t hire Dave A?HughFreakingDillon said:
it wasn't a rocketship when he joined. he joined before the band was known. it took nearly a full year for the band to blow up after Ten was released.Merkin Baller said:
My criteria is a lot more than just the # of albums each guy played on.HughFreakingDillon said:
what is your criteria for "brought to the table"? as a drummer who played on two albums, he brought just as much as Jack did. More than Dave K did. More than Matt Chamberlain did.Merkin Baller said:
I think the nostalgia for that time period clouds people's perception of what he brought to the table.HughFreakingDillon said:
for sure, I just think for people to question why he keeps getting brought up-well, I think it's pretty obvious-he drummed on the Ten tour, he played and helped create VS and Vitalogy, which is pretty heavy nostalgia for a lot of people (I'd say most fans say the first 3 records is their favourite period). MANY folks dropped off after Dave was fired, not because he was fired, but because they didn't like the change in style. Some people just prefer his drumming-totally subjective. I don't think No Code or Yield happen without Jack-Dave's style just wouldn't have suited that writing.Merkin Baller said:
Your point about Dave's contributions not being limited because of the timing works both ways... it shouldn't be overstated because of the timing either, The follow up albums to Ten were going to happen regardless of who was behind the kit. One can argue they may not have been as big as they were if they had a different drummer, but based on the success of Ten, we can assume at least VS still would have done pretty damn well.HughFreakingDillon said:
does this also then apply to Jack?Merkin Baller said:Dave A wrote a couple great songs for them, for sure. Despite that. his contribution to this band has been greatly over romanticized, and to sociopearljam's point, not even remotely relative to the amount of discussion or agita it's generated.
He's good, but I wouldn't call him a great drummer... he's certainly no better than the 4th best to have played for this band.
Dave actually was with them when they were still playing small clubs, as Gern pointed out. It's not super typical for a drummer to contribute to songwriting. I'm not one of "they should get dave back in the band" people, but his contributions shouldn't be limited just because of the time period he was in the band. I mean, people are also talking about Dave K, who was in the band an even shorter time and only drummed on 1 record.
Do No Code and Yield happen without Jack? Does PJ even continue as a band if he doesn't show up? There's a lot less certainty there, I think.
Regarding your last point, I'm not one of the people clamoring for Dave K (that has me scratching my head)... I'm not clamoring for ANY of their past drummers to return. I don't want sentimentality to factor into where they go next.
I don't think his contributions are overstated, honestly. I think people just talk about him the most because of the circumstances surrounding his departure and my points above.
IDK how you can ignore the context of where the band was at when each drummer joined. As someone mentioned, Dave A got on a rocket ship as it was taking off. JI arguably saved them from breaking up and inspired them to a new sound and direction.
From that perspective, I would say JI brought way more to the table for PJ than Dave A.
He’s a textbook example of right place / right time.Whose argument am I changing?I agree, to suggest they were already famous when he joined is false… that’s not my argument.0 -
Disagree completely. This band got big primarily because of one person and that person is Ed.HughFreakingDillon said:they would have gotten famous with Ten for SURE. But Dave's drumming on VS especially was significant and helped propel them to that next stage.I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
But the music for Ten was primarily written by Stone and Jeff. It was never just about Ed, as talented, charismatic, pretty and wonderful lyricist he is.mcgruff10 said:
Disagree completely. This band got big primarily because of one person and that person is Ed.HughFreakingDillon said:they would have gotten famous with Ten for SURE. But Dave's drumming on VS especially was significant and helped propel them to that next stage.#Grievance20250 -
But it was his voice and looks that was the driving force.Shaindli1 said:
But the music for Ten was primarily written by Stone and Jeff. It was never just about Ed, as talented, charismatic, pretty and wonderful lyricist he is.mcgruff10 said:
Disagree completely. This band got big primarily because of one person and that person is Ed.HughFreakingDillon said:they would have gotten famous with Ten for SURE. But Dave's drumming on VS especially was significant and helped propel them to that next stage.I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
Singing the amazing songs Jeff and Stone wrote.mcgruff10 said:
But it was his voice and looks that was the driving force.Shaindli1 said:
But the music for Ten was primarily written by Stone and Jeff. It was never just about Ed, as talented, charismatic, pretty and wonderful lyricist he is.mcgruff10 said:
Disagree completely. This band got big primarily because of one person and that person is Ed.HughFreakingDillon said:they would have gotten famous with Ten for SURE. But Dave's drumming on VS especially was significant and helped propel them to that next stage.#Grievance20250
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