Here's the problem I see with the current ticketing process - it encourages people to apply for many/all shows, even if they don't have plans to go. I have put in requests for pit tickets for many shows, just to see if I get them. If so, I'll try to make travel plans. If not, well, that what FTF is for. The problem is that this keeps other people from getting tix in the lottery and forces them to compete on TicketBastard. There should be a change to dis-incentivise poeple from requesting too many shows.
Here's the problem I see with the current ticketing process - it encourages people to apply for many/all shows, even if they don't have plans to go. I have put in requests for pit tickets for many shows, just to see if I get them. If so, I'll try to make travel plans. If not, well, that what FTF is for. The problem is that this keeps other people from getting tix in the lottery and forces them to compete on TicketBastard. There should be a change to dis-incentivise poeple from requesting too many shows.
👆
Agreed but TM and PJ have to love the fact that 10C tickets sell out now even in cities like Raleigh and St Paul with 2 nights booked.
That never would have happened pre 2020. I think it was a huge pain in the past when 10C did not sell out their reserved allotment and they had to go back to the public sale to be sold.
Allowing transfers would enable the scalping you want them to prevent
How so? Transfers with face value transfers only (for states where that is legal).
There is no $ associated with transfers. "face value transfers" cannot be enforced or facilitated.
I think it would be possible especially with all the convenience fees
there is NO way to associate $ with ticketmaster transfers. Have you never transferred tix before?
I'm 100% with you on your other points. Allowing transfers opens the floodgates to scalping. There is no way to enforce transferring someone a ticket (via transfer) and charging them thousands of dollars via paypal venmo cast etc
Friend, those floodgates are WIIIIIDE open!
There would be zero drops. Zero. Everyone who has scored a post-lottery, face value ticket this tour would not have had that opportunity.
More people here would have scored via transfers. There haven't been many (bunch of) real victories for the Pitt shows. There absolutely would have been more victories if transfers were an option.
"A smart monkey doesn't monkey around with another monkey's monkey" - Darwin's Theory
Allowing transfers would enable the scalping you want them to prevent
How so? Transfers with face value transfers only (for states where that is legal).
There is no $ associated with transfers. "face value transfers" cannot be enforced or facilitated.
I think it would be possible especially with all the convenience fees
there is NO way to associate $ with ticketmaster transfers. Have you never transferred tix before?
I'm 100% with you on your other points. Allowing transfers opens the floodgates to scalping. There is no way to enforce transferring someone a ticket (via transfer) and charging them thousands of dollars via paypal venmo cast etc
Friend, those floodgates are WIIIIIDE open!
There would be zero drops. Zero. Everyone who has scored a post-lottery, face value ticket this tour would not have had that opportunity.
More people here would have scored via transfers. There haven't been many (bunch of) real victories for the Pitt shows. There absolutely would have been more victories if transfers were an option.
There definitely would be
There also would be 10C members flipping tickets for a profit just like we saw in MSG and Denver.
Denver is a great example of a decent market that still had plenty of people selling for face value on here and facebook.
Here's the problem I see with the current ticketing process - it encourages people to apply for many/all shows, even if they don't have plans to go. I have put in requests for pit tickets for many shows, just to see if I get them. If so, I'll try to make travel plans. If not, well, that what FTF is for. The problem is that this keeps other people from getting tix in the lottery and forces them to compete on TicketBastard. There should be a change to dis-incentivise poeple from requesting too many shows.
This is about as restrictive an electronic ticketing system as you can pull off. The only way to tighten things up more is to go back to in-person pickup of physical tickets with an ID.
Otherwise, at this point, I say tear down all these guardrails that create a bunch of unintended consequences. It will probably increase demand for 10C tickets even more (especially in their hotter markets) but on balance I think it will ultimately make it easier to get a ticket at a reasonable price.
Here's the problem I see with the current ticketing process - it encourages people to apply for many/all shows, even if they don't have plans to go. I have put in requests for pit tickets for many shows, just to see if I get them. If so, I'll try to make travel plans. If not, well, that what FTF is for. The problem is that this keeps other people from getting tix in the lottery and forces them to compete on TicketBastard. There should be a change to dis-incentivise poeple from requesting too many shows.
It seems the ticket sales system is really a downer.
1) Ticket sales strictly TM only. Elimination of all ways to sell a TM ticket on any other platform = tickets bought on other platforms are invalid. Everyone can read about this restriction on the TM site. 2) TM ticket resale limited to 1. If someone has bought a ticket via the TM resale option, this ticket is sold out of the market. No way to sell it again.
Ticket mania shrinked.
It’s not up to TM to enforce #1 its up to the venue and the band though.
Also #2 was happening for months due to brokers taking all the tickets and they would never come back to fan to fan. Back in 2020 and 2022 people would upgrade and return their worse off seats to fan to fan and another fan would get them and benefit from the resale. Now we rarely see that even with direct links.
+1000
so
#1
is doable by the band/venue/TM together - and there’s no / should be no reason to ignore it.
+ Announcement / WARNING on venue site and PJ Home plus a technic-solution to detect invalid tickets by the entry-scan on show day.
#1.1 or even prevent a ticket’s online move to another sales market. No idea how this further step would work technically - could be impossible or not worth any action because actually there’s no need for that.
Because selling invalid tickets is not a big business.
# 2
Limited to 1 resale works strictly on the TM site now and only *face value resale tickets* are possible there.
Therefore no profit in $ for brokers/resellers/scalpers is possible.
>> only #1 and #2 together would shrink the ticket mania and can reduce ticket scalping vastly
No one has generated a solution, no matter what, there will be a loophole. Whether it is fans signing up for multiple fanclub accounts, scalpers signing up multiple fanclub accounts, live nation screwing with the F2F ticket drops.
The only reasonable solution and it most certainly could be done, is that if a ticket goes back into the F2F drop, not talking pj premium nonsense, but regular priced fanclub and general face tickets, those tickets should be "locked" into access by fanclub members only. You get verified as an active fanclub member prior to the on-sale, it would be easy to do this. You set up a portal where F2F requires your fanclub login. If the tickets do not sell after 30 or 60 days, they go back into the general pool. It is not perfect but it would alleviate some of the live nation buyback and resell garbage.
TM ticket resale price lower than *face value* should be possible/allowed.
Given that Ticketmaster rakes fees on all resales it's interesting that they don't allow this. Their data must show that people will buy something either way and they're still making more without the incremental sales from price cuts.
No one has generated a solution, no matter what, there will be a loophole. Whether it is fans signing up for multiple fanclub accounts, scalpers signing up multiple fanclub accounts, live nation screwing with the F2F ticket drops.
The only reasonable solution and it most certainly could be done, is that if a ticket goes back into the F2F drop, not talking pj premium nonsense, but regular priced fanclub and general face tickets, those tickets should be "locked" into access by fanclub members only. You get verified as an active fanclub member prior to the on-sale, it would be easy to do this. You set up a portal where F2F requires your fanclub login. If the tickets do not sell after 30 or 60 days, they go back into the general pool. It is not perfect but it would alleviate some of the live nation buyback and resell garbage.
Why would Ticketmaster bother to deal with any of this? Much larger administrative lift with zero payoff.
My problem is, while the idea of F2F sounds like a good compromise to get back with Ticketmaster, the reality appears to be, you put tickets up and they are instantly snatched by bots.
I put in for both Hollywood shows, but could only do one. I didn't expect to get them both, but did. Once that happened, I confirmed the better date with my party and sold back the other pair (I have good reason, being wheelchair bound and doing physical therapy daily - I have to be sparing with my time off). They were gone before I could even tab over to my email.
2008 Tampa - 2013 Buffalo - 2016 Tampa - 2016 Fenway II Audioslave 2005 MSG
You are basically asking the band to remove most of the restrictions that TM has put in place. PJ has agreed to those terms in exchange for the 10C allotment at each show, which is already being diminished by providing members with seats that are farther back than in the past. I think people underestimate TM's influence and the terms that the band has agreed to. Yes, they have the power to change the terms, but they would probably be leaving money on the table. And that is not how this band operates in 2025. They play and collect checks. I doubt they have much involvement in the process these days. They have a management team that seeks to obtain the highest possible revenue without alienating fans. It's been that way for sometime.
The solution is one show per 10C member. Or maybe a limit of two. No transfers, period. You cannot go, you eat the tickets. Period. Or you give them to someone you trust with your login information. Like the old days. This would put more tickets in the hands of local members and eliminate all of this F2F and transfer nonsense. 10C tickets should not be transferred or resold IMHO. TM is not your friend. They want your money and will screw you every chance they get.
Anyone with a idea how bots/ticket scalpers/re$ellers could bypass the ticketing process (fantasy status;) mentioned above?
> Selling TM order numbers / TM’s original email after ticket purchase: Invalid because there is no entry with the email.
lead to: There’s no way to upload such a posted/given order number into the TM app to „create the ticket“ there.
Left over tickets available in person at the box office on show day: > only available on paper and the tickets are printed with the ticket holder’s name on it.
> you need the ID-Card again at the venue entry because paper tickets are checked by staff and the name must match.
No one has generated a solution, no matter what, there will be a loophole. Whether it is fans signing up for multiple fanclub accounts, scalpers signing up multiple fanclub accounts, live nation screwing with the F2F ticket drops.
The only reasonable solution and it most certainly could be done, is that if a ticket goes back into the F2F drop, not talking pj premium nonsense, but regular priced fanclub and general face tickets, those tickets should be "locked" into access by fanclub members only. You get verified as an active fanclub member prior to the on-sale, it would be easy to do this. You set up a portal where F2F requires your fanclub login. If the tickets do not sell after 30 or 60 days, they go back into the general pool. It is not perfect but it would alleviate some of the live nation buyback and resell garbage.
Why would Ticketmaster bother to deal with any of this? Much larger administrative lift with zero payoff.
Exactly. Anything that increases the amount of work TM will have to do without a positive return is not viable.
No one has generated a solution, no matter what, there will be a loophole. Whether it is fans signing up for multiple fanclub accounts, scalpers signing up multiple fanclub accounts, live nation screwing with the F2F ticket drops.
The only reasonable solution and it most certainly could be done, is that if a ticket goes back into the F2F drop, not talking pj premium nonsense, but regular priced fanclub and general face tickets, those tickets should be "locked" into access by fanclub members only. You get verified as an active fanclub member prior to the on-sale, it would be easy to do this. You set up a portal where F2F requires your fanclub login. If the tickets do not sell after 30 or 60 days, they go back into the general pool. It is not perfect but it would alleviate some of the live nation buyback and resell garbage.
Why would Ticketmaster bother to deal with any of this? Much larger administrative lift with zero payoff.
Exactly. Anything that increases the amount of work TM will have to do without a positive return is not viable.
They're listing 15-20 shows a year max with them. How much leverage could they possibly have?
Just make tickets non transferable. Put in for as many shows as you want but you’re stuck with them. Including closing all the scalper barcode loopholes.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2025: Raleigh
Just make tickets non transferable. Put in for as many shows as you want but you’re stuck with them. Including closing all the scalper barcode loopholes.
Have they been turning transfers on within a day or two of the show this tour?
A simple fix for direct 10C F2F transfers not getting gamed en masse would be to require the seller be a member for at least a year. 10C's existing policy that you can only enter ticket drawings if your account was created by $date already creates a barrier for mass flippers, I'd say.
Will people still scalp? Of course. Will it be done by bots in industrialized fashion? Not so much.
2008 Tampa - 2013 Buffalo - 2016 Tampa - 2016 Fenway II Audioslave 2005 MSG
No one has generated a solution, no matter what, there will be a loophole. Whether it is fans signing up for multiple fanclub accounts, scalpers signing up multiple fanclub accounts, live nation screwing with the F2F ticket drops.
The only reasonable solution and it most certainly could be done, is that if a ticket goes back into the F2F drop, not talking pj premium nonsense, but regular priced fanclub and general face tickets, those tickets should be "locked" into access by fanclub members only. You get verified as an active fanclub member prior to the on-sale, it would be easy to do this. You set up a portal where F2F requires your fanclub login. If the tickets do not sell after 30 or 60 days, they go back into the general pool. It is not perfect but it would alleviate some of the live nation buyback and resell garbage.
Why would Ticketmaster bother to deal with any of this? Much larger administrative lift with zero payoff.
Exactly. Anything that increases the amount of work TM will have to do without a positive return is not viable.
They're listing 15-20 shows a year max with them. How much leverage could they possibly have?
Exactly. That is why the 10C tix have not been as good. Anyone that does not think the band is fully on board with TM's business plan is kidding themselves.
Just make tickets non transferable. Put in for as many shows as you want but you’re stuck with them. Including closing all the scalper barcode loopholes.
Yup. That would end all this transfer and F2F nonsense, as well as limiting people buying 10C tix on spec without knowing if they can actually go.
A simple fix for direct 10C F2F transfers not getting gamed en masse would be to require the seller be a member for at least a year. 10C's existing policy that you can only enter ticket drawings if your account was created by $date already creates a barrier for mass flippers, I'd say.
Will people still scalp? Of course. Will it be done by bots in industrialized fashion? Not so much.
If 10c tickets could only be transferred/resold to 10c members who lost in the lotto then it solves a bunch of problems at once (bots, upgraders, etc.). TM conducts the lotto so it already has all the data needed to enforce this. In fact, it could just be a "rolling lotto" where losers in the initial draw are put into a pool and each time 10c tickets are put up for resale a name is drawn from the loser pool and offered to them first. If they decline, they are then removed from the pool and this goes on until the tickets are sold.
If 10c tickets could only be transferred/resold to 10c members who lost in the lotto then it solves a bunch of problems at once (bots, upgraders, etc.). TM conducts the lotto so it already has all the data needed to enforce this. In fact, it could just be a "rolling lotto" where losers in the initial draw are put into a pool and each time 10c tickets are put up for resale a name is drawn from the loser pool and offered to them first. If they decline, they are then removed from the pool and this goes on until the tickets are sold.
Yes, I like this idea. It can be done without creating a secondhand marketplace.
2008 Tampa - 2013 Buffalo - 2016 Tampa - 2016 Fenway II Audioslave 2005 MSG
No one has generated a solution, no matter what, there will be a loophole. Whether it is fans signing up for multiple fanclub accounts, scalpers signing up multiple fanclub accounts, live nation screwing with the F2F ticket drops.
The only reasonable solution and it most certainly could be done, is that if a ticket goes back into the F2F drop, not talking pj premium nonsense, but regular priced fanclub and general face tickets, those tickets should be "locked" into access by fanclub members only. You get verified as an active fanclub member prior to the on-sale, it would be easy to do this. You set up a portal where F2F requires your fanclub login. If the tickets do not sell after 30 or 60 days, they go back into the general pool. It is not perfect but it would alleviate some of the live nation buyback and resell garbage.
Why would Ticketmaster bother to deal with any of this? Much larger administrative lift with zero payoff.
Exactly. Anything that increases the amount of work TM will have to do without a positive return is not viable.
This is correct. Spending resources on developing and implementing a solution that hurts the bottom line of all parties (TM, PJ, management, etc.) is simply a horrific business decision. And it's 2025 so we're never going back to will call and/or paper tickets. F2F certainly has its issues but it's better than a free for all and the only other in-place system. The real solution is to disassociate ticketing from venues.
A simple fix for direct 10C F2F transfers not getting gamed en masse would be to require the seller be a member for at least a year. 10C's existing policy that you can only enter ticket drawings if your account was created by $date already creates a barrier for mass flippers, I'd say.
Will people still scalp? Of course. Will it be done by bots in industrialized fashion? Not so much.
You could be on to something here but it would be more for the initial 10C lottery vs. F2F. Have the first lotto run for anyone who has been an active member at least a year. Then there's a second draw of leftovers for anyone who joined within a year. Or set that slider back a little further if they're feeling spicy. It's just running two separate presales.
Here's the problem I see with the current ticketing process - it encourages people to apply for many/all shows, even if they don't have plans to go. I have put in requests for pit tickets for many shows, just to see if I get them. If so, I'll try to make travel plans. If not, well, that what FTF is for. The problem is that this keeps other people from getting tix in the lottery and forces them to compete on TicketBastard. There should be a change to dis-incentivise poeple from requesting too many shows.
This is about as restrictive an electronic ticketing system as you can pull off. The only way to tighten things up more is to go back to in-person pickup of physical tickets with an ID.
Otherwise, at this point, I say tear down all these guardrails that create a bunch of unintended consequences. It will probably increase demand for 10C tickets even more (especially in their hotter markets) but on balance I think it will ultimately make it easier to get a ticket at a reasonable price.
So here is a thought - link thru your 10C account into TicketBastard in order to buy FTF. Wait what? They already have something in place to REQUEST tickets this way. Why not just do the FTF sales similarly? All public and Premium tickets would still be on the public site, but FTF would require a 10C account to access.
Here's the problem I see with the current ticketing process - it encourages people to apply for many/all shows, even if they don't have plans to go. I have put in requests for pit tickets for many shows, just to see if I get them. If so, I'll try to make travel plans. If not, well, that what FTF is for. The problem is that this keeps other people from getting tix in the lottery and forces them to compete on TicketBastard. There should be a change to dis-incentivise poeple from requesting too many shows.
This is about as restrictive an electronic ticketing system as you can pull off. The only way to tighten things up more is to go back to in-person pickup of physical tickets with an ID.
Otherwise, at this point, I say tear down all these guardrails that create a bunch of unintended consequences. It will probably increase demand for 10C tickets even more (especially in their hotter markets) but on balance I think it will ultimately make it easier to get a ticket at a reasonable price.
So here is a thought - link thru your 10C account into TicketBastard in order to buy FTF. Wait what? They already have something in place to REQUEST tickets this way. Why not just do the FTF sales similarly? All public and Premium tickets would still be on the public site, but FTF would require a 10C account to access.
This doesn’t account for people putting in for a dozen shows and then throwing back any seats that aren’t GA. Also… scalpers have ten club memberships. They would have access to the tickets as well.
I’m all in for zero tolerance transfer policy. You break it, you bought it.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2025: Raleigh
Here's the problem I see with the current ticketing process - it encourages people to apply for many/all shows, even if they don't have plans to go. I have put in requests for pit tickets for many shows, just to see if I get them. If so, I'll try to make travel plans. If not, well, that what FTF is for. The problem is that this keeps other people from getting tix in the lottery and forces them to compete on TicketBastard. There should be a change to dis-incentivise poeple from requesting too many shows.
This is about as restrictive an electronic ticketing system as you can pull off. The only way to tighten things up more is to go back to in-person pickup of physical tickets with an ID.
Otherwise, at this point, I say tear down all these guardrails that create a bunch of unintended consequences. It will probably increase demand for 10C tickets even more (especially in their hotter markets) but on balance I think it will ultimately make it easier to get a ticket at a reasonable price.
So here is a thought - link thru your 10C account into TicketBastard in order to buy FTF. Wait what? They already have something in place to REQUEST tickets this way. Why not just do the FTF sales similarly? All public and Premium tickets would still be on the public site, but FTF would require a 10C account to access.
But why would they do that? It's against their interest to have a smaller pool of buyers.
I’ve thought that having a 10C second chance lottery might help. No F2F until after. About 30 days before a show, all the 10C ticket holders who can’t go can list their tickets and only 10C fans could buy. Do that for 24 hours, then open it up.
I also think they need to limit entries into the lottery to 4 shows per tour.
Now, all that being said, the band appears to be losing a bit of momentum as both ATL and Nash had plenty of empty seats in the top levels. Getting into a show isn’t going to be a problem if they continue the 2 shows per city thing in NBA or NHL arenas.
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Comments
That never would have happened pre 2020. I think it was a huge pain in the past when 10C did not sell out their reserved allotment and they had to go back to the public sale to be sold.
There also would be 10C members flipping tickets for a profit just like we saw in MSG and Denver.
Denver is a great example of a decent market that still had plenty of people selling for face value on here and facebook.
MSG on the other hand was a bloodbath lol
Otherwise, at this point, I say tear down all these guardrails that create a bunch of unintended consequences. It will probably increase demand for 10C tickets even more (especially in their hotter markets) but on balance I think it will ultimately make it easier to get a ticket at a reasonable price.
so
#1
is doable by the band/venue/TM together - and there’s no / should be no reason to ignore it.
+ Announcement / WARNING on venue site and PJ Home plus a technic-solution to detect invalid tickets by the entry-scan on show day.
#1.1 or even prevent a ticket’s online move to another sales market. No idea how this further step would work technically - could be impossible or not worth any action because actually there’s no need for that.
Because selling invalid tickets is not a big business.
# 2
Limited to 1 resale works strictly on the TM site now and only *face value resale tickets* are possible there.
Therefore no profit in $ for brokers/resellers/scalpers is possible.
>> only #1 and #2 together would shrink the ticket mania and can reduce ticket scalping vastly
The only reasonable solution and it most certainly could be done, is that if a ticket goes back into the F2F drop, not talking pj premium nonsense, but regular priced fanclub and general face tickets, those tickets should be "locked" into access by fanclub members only. You get verified as an active fanclub member prior to the on-sale, it would be easy to do this. You set up a portal where F2F requires your fanclub login. If the tickets do not sell after 30 or 60 days, they go back into the general pool. It is not perfect but it would alleviate some of the live nation buyback and resell garbage.
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2008 Tampa - 2013 Buffalo - 2016 Tampa - 2016 Fenway II
Audioslave 2005 MSG
The solution is one show per 10C member. Or maybe a limit of two. No transfers, period. You cannot go, you eat the tickets. Period. Or you give them to someone you trust with your login information. Like the old days. This would put more tickets in the hands of local members and eliminate all of this F2F and transfer nonsense. 10C tickets should not be transferred or resold IMHO. TM is not your friend. They want your money and will screw you every chance they get.
> Selling TM order numbers / TM’s original email
after ticket purchase:
Invalid because there is no entry with the email.
lead to:
There’s no way to upload such a posted/given order number into the TM app to „create the ticket“ there.
> only available on paper and the tickets are printed with the ticket holder’s name on it.
Exactly. Anything that increases the amount of work TM will have to do without a positive return is not viable.
2008 Tampa - 2013 Buffalo - 2016 Tampa - 2016 Fenway II
Audioslave 2005 MSG
Exactly. That is why the 10C tix have not been as good. Anyone that does not think the band is fully on board with TM's business plan is kidding themselves.
Yup. That would end all this transfer and F2F nonsense, as well as limiting people buying 10C tix on spec without knowing if they can actually go.
2008 Tampa - 2013 Buffalo - 2016 Tampa - 2016 Fenway II
Audioslave 2005 MSG
So here is a thought - link thru your 10C account into TicketBastard in order to buy FTF. Wait what? They already have something in place to REQUEST tickets this way. Why not just do the FTF sales similarly? All public and Premium tickets would still be on the public site, but FTF would require a 10C account to access.
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