Should Pearl Jam use fan to fan again next tour in its current state?

PJNB · April 15

No

EH14457 said:

show previous quotes

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

For anyone voting yes how are you ok with being forced to sell your tickets to scalpers just so they can make a huge profit on your 10C seats?

I don't get how anyone can be ok with this system in its current state that has been following the ticket sales and where they end up after you sell them..

Isn't the whole point of f2f to cut scalpers out of the picture? I don't get what you're saying when they literally can't be sold for more than the original purchase price.

It's not a perfect system, but it's a hell of a lot better than the overall ticketmaster experience which allows scalpers.

Scalpers are buying up most of the tickets on fan
to fan before us humans are able to even see them on the map.

Have you been following fan to fan this tour?

I have not. They’re not touring anywhere near me.

whats different this tour? Did they remove the restrictions on pricing and allow tickets to be sold more than the purchase price?

No you still have to sell at what ever price you bought the ticket for on fan to fan.

Here are 3 pictures that tell you what the issue is right now.

Someone sells these tickets for face value on F2F. No one can cart these even though they are right on top of them when they show up for sale. They were scooped up by a bot before they even popped up on the map. No one has a chance at getting these.

Moments later on a secondary site

There are hundreds and hundreds of these tickets for sale right now for each show on these sites. All bought on F2F.

Well I hope people aren’t buying from other non Ticketmaster sites

how would that even work? Would this scalper give the login information for their TM account?

Regardless, your issue isn’t with fan to fan. It’s with bots and that’s an issue for any artists this day and age

It actually *is* with fan-to-fan. The scalper doesn't give the login to their TM account. Once they've purchased the ticket, they're able to use the data in the barcode to generate a totally valid, completely-indistinguishable-from-the-original barcode through another site/app. When someone buys through a 3rd party site, they're buying access to this barcode. And the only reason this loophole works (enabling scalpers to sell for thousands of dollars) is because TM is lazy. They took a lazy/obvious approach to implementing the rotating barcode tech in the first place, and despite someone having published the "barcode recipe" over a year ago, which is what opened the floodgates to scalpers on F2F, TM hasn't done anything to change the implementation and resecure the platform.

TM knows the exploit is out there; they have known for over a year. It's a choice to not do anything about it. So at this point, all F2F is really doing is preventing people who otherwise would actually get their unused tickets into the hands of other fans at face value from being able to do that.

And to add to that PJ knows the system is broke as well from the previous tours but still is using it in 2025.

I remember the days 10C would close threads because someone would ask for a poster or shirt to be thrown in with tickets for sale since it was above face. Now we are forced into a system to either share logins with strangers or sell on fan to fan to bots.

100 Pacer · April 15

EH14457 said:

show previous quotes

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

For anyone voting yes how are you ok with being forced to sell your tickets to scalpers just so they can make a huge profit on your 10C seats?

I don't get how anyone can be ok with this system in its current state that has been following the ticket sales and where they end up after you sell them..

Isn't the whole point of f2f to cut scalpers out of the picture? I don't get what you're saying when they literally can't be sold for more than the original purchase price.

It's not a perfect system, but it's a hell of a lot better than the overall ticketmaster experience which allows scalpers.

Scalpers are buying up most of the tickets on fan
to fan before us humans are able to even see them on the map.

Have you been following fan to fan this tour?

I have not. They’re not touring anywhere near me.

whats different this tour? Did they remove the restrictions on pricing and allow tickets to be sold more than the purchase price?

No you still have to sell at what ever price you bought the ticket for on fan to fan.

Here are 3 pictures that tell you what the issue is right now.

Someone sells these tickets for face value on F2F. No one can cart these even though they are right on top of them when they show up for sale. They were scooped up by a bot before they even popped up on the map. No one has a chance at getting these.

Moments later on a secondary site

There are hundreds and hundreds of these tickets for sale right now for each show on these sites. All bought on F2F.

Well I hope people aren’t buying from other non Ticketmaster sites

how would that even work? Would this scalper give the login information for their TM account?

Regardless, your issue isn’t with fan to fan. It’s with bots and that’s an issue for any artists this day and age

It actually *is* with fan-to-fan. The scalper doesn't give the login to their TM account. Once they've purchased the ticket, they're able to use the data in the barcode to generate a totally valid, completely-indistinguishable-from-the-original barcode through another site/app. When someone buys through a 3rd party site, they're buying access to this barcode. And the only reason this loophole works (enabling scalpers to sell for thousands of dollars) is because TM is lazy. They took a lazy/obvious approach to implementing the rotating barcode tech in the first place, and despite someone having published the "barcode recipe" over a year ago, which is what opened the floodgates to scalpers on F2F, TM hasn't done anything to change the implementation and resecure the platform.

TM knows the exploit is out there; they have known for over a year. It's a choice to not do anything about it. So at this point, all F2F is really doing is preventing people who otherwise would actually get their unused tickets into the hands of other fans at face value from being able to do that.

That’s not what’s happening. The scalpers don’t generate barcodes. What’s happening is the scalpers have engineered a VPN connection where buyers receive a URL link to pop up the network access which then mirrors for the buyer the ticket barcode that appears in the seller account. The buyer is accessing the barcode from the seller, the scalper, through the VPN connection without actually having access to the account details.

jlindgren2 · April 15

Yes

PJNB said:

show previous quotes

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

For anyone voting yes how are you ok with being forced to sell your tickets to scalpers just so they can make a huge profit on your 10C seats?

I don't get how anyone can be ok with this system in its current state that has been following the ticket sales and where they end up after you sell them..

Isn't the whole point of f2f to cut scalpers out of the picture? I don't get what you're saying when they literally can't be sold for more than the original purchase price.

It's not a perfect system, but it's a hell of a lot better than the overall ticketmaster experience which allows scalpers.

Scalpers are buying up most of the tickets on fan
to fan before us humans are able to even see them on the map.

Have you been following fan to fan this tour?

I have not. They’re not touring anywhere near me.

whats different this tour? Did they remove the restrictions on pricing and allow tickets to be sold more than the purchase price?

No you still have to sell at what ever price you bought the ticket for on fan to fan.

Here are 3 pictures that tell you what the issue is right now.

Someone sells these tickets for face value on F2F. No one can cart these even though they are right on top of them when they show up for sale. They were scooped up by a bot before they even popped up on the map. No one has a chance at getting these.

Moments later on a secondary site

There are hundreds and hundreds of these tickets for sale right now for each show on these sites. All bought on F2F.

Well I hope people aren’t buying from other non Ticketmaster sites

how would that even work? Would this scalper give the login information for their TM account?

Regardless, your issue isn’t with fan to fan. It’s with bots and that’s an issue for any artists this day and age

You hope? This is the 4th tour that they have been buying these tickets from the other sites.

My issue is with fan to fan. I am being forced to sell my tickets if I need to on their platform just so a bot can buy them and someone else can make a ton of money off my seats. Adding insult to injury this is what we get to read every time we go to an event page.

They say they want to give fans not scalpers the best chance to buy tickets. They have done the exact opposite and by forcing us into this system.

If someone stupidly wants to buy from another site and take the risk they’re fake and pay astronomical prices, that’s on the .

Ive never had an issue buying or selling tickets to PJ shows with f2f. Its been extremely easy

how would getting rid of f2f make the scalper issue better?

PJNB · April 15

No

jlindgren2 said:

show previous quotes

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

For anyone voting yes how are you ok with being forced to sell your tickets to scalpers just so they can make a huge profit on your 10C seats?

I don't get how anyone can be ok with this system in its current state that has been following the ticket sales and where they end up after you sell them..

Isn't the whole point of f2f to cut scalpers out of the picture? I don't get what you're saying when they literally can't be sold for more than the original purchase price.

It's not a perfect system, but it's a hell of a lot better than the overall ticketmaster experience which allows scalpers.

Scalpers are buying up most of the tickets on fan
to fan before us humans are able to even see them on the map.

Have you been following fan to fan this tour?

I have not. They’re not touring anywhere near me.

whats different this tour? Did they remove the restrictions on pricing and allow tickets to be sold more than the purchase price?

No you still have to sell at what ever price you bought the ticket for on fan to fan.

Here are 3 pictures that tell you what the issue is right now.

Someone sells these tickets for face value on F2F. No one can cart these even though they are right on top of them when they show up for sale. They were scooped up by a bot before they even popped up on the map. No one has a chance at getting these.

Moments later on a secondary site

There are hundreds and hundreds of these tickets for sale right now for each show on these sites. All bought on F2F.

Well I hope people aren’t buying from other non Ticketmaster sites

how would that even work? Would this scalper give the login information for their TM account?

Regardless, your issue isn’t with fan to fan. It’s with bots and that’s an issue for any artists this day and age

You hope? This is the 4th tour that they have been buying these tickets from the other sites.

My issue is with fan to fan. I am being forced to sell my tickets if I need to on their platform just so a bot can buy them and someone else can make a ton of money off my seats. Adding insult to injury this is what we get to read every time we go to an event page.

They say they want to give fans not scalpers the best chance to buy tickets. They have done the exact opposite and by forcing us into this system.

If someone stupidly wants to buy from another site and take the risk they’re fake and pay astronomical prices, that’s on the .

Ive never had an issue buying or selling tickets to PJ shows with f2f. Its been extremely easy

how would getting rid of f2f make the scalper issue better?

Its almost like you haven't been following this years fan to fan but have a lot of input on how easy it is to get tickets.

PJNB · April 15

No

100 Pacer said:

show previous quotes

EH14457 said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

For anyone voting yes how are you ok with being forced to sell your tickets to scalpers just so they can make a huge profit on your 10C seats?

I don't get how anyone can be ok with this system in its current state that has been following the ticket sales and where they end up after you sell them..

Isn't the whole point of f2f to cut scalpers out of the picture? I don't get what you're saying when they literally can't be sold for more than the original purchase price.

It's not a perfect system, but it's a hell of a lot better than the overall ticketmaster experience which allows scalpers.

Scalpers are buying up most of the tickets on fan
to fan before us humans are able to even see them on the map.

Have you been following fan to fan this tour?

I have not. They’re not touring anywhere near me.

whats different this tour? Did they remove the restrictions on pricing and allow tickets to be sold more than the purchase price?

No you still have to sell at what ever price you bought the ticket for on fan to fan.

Here are 3 pictures that tell you what the issue is right now.

Someone sells these tickets for face value on F2F. No one can cart these even though they are right on top of them when they show up for sale. They were scooped up by a bot before they even popped up on the map. No one has a chance at getting these.

Moments later on a secondary site

There are hundreds and hundreds of these tickets for sale right now for each show on these sites. All bought on F2F.

Well I hope people aren’t buying from other non Ticketmaster sites

how would that even work? Would this scalper give the login information for their TM account?

Regardless, your issue isn’t with fan to fan. It’s with bots and that’s an issue for any artists this day and age

It actually *is* with fan-to-fan. The scalper doesn't give the login to their TM account. Once they've purchased the ticket, they're able to use the data in the barcode to generate a totally valid, completely-indistinguishable-from-the-original barcode through another site/app. When someone buys through a 3rd party site, they're buying access to this barcode. And the only reason this loophole works (enabling scalpers to sell for thousands of dollars) is because TM is lazy. They took a lazy/obvious approach to implementing the rotating barcode tech in the first place, and despite someone having published the "barcode recipe" over a year ago, which is what opened the floodgates to scalpers on F2F, TM hasn't done anything to change the implementation and resecure the platform.

TM knows the exploit is out there; they have known for over a year. It's a choice to not do anything about it. So at this point, all F2F is really doing is preventing people who otherwise would actually get their unused tickets into the hands of other fans at face value from being able to do that.

That’s not what’s happening. The scalpers don’t generate barcodes. What’s happening is the scalpers have engineered a VPN connection where buyers receive a URL link to pop up the network access which then mirrors for the buyer the ticket barcode that appears in the seller account. The buyer is accessing the barcode from the seller, the scalper, through the VPN connection without actually having access to the account details.

Then how do you get barcodes when purchasing on these secondary sites months before TM gives us normal people access to one?

100 Pacer · April 15

PJNB said:

show previous quotes

100 Pacer said:

EH14457 said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

For anyone voting yes how are you ok with being forced to sell your tickets to scalpers just so they can make a huge profit on your 10C seats?

I don't get how anyone can be ok with this system in its current state that has been following the ticket sales and where they end up after you sell them..

Isn't the whole point of f2f to cut scalpers out of the picture? I don't get what you're saying when they literally can't be sold for more than the original purchase price.

It's not a perfect system, but it's a hell of a lot better than the overall ticketmaster experience which allows scalpers.

Scalpers are buying up most of the tickets on fan
to fan before us humans are able to even see them on the map.

Have you been following fan to fan this tour?

I have not. They’re not touring anywhere near me.

whats different this tour? Did they remove the restrictions on pricing and allow tickets to be sold more than the purchase price?

No you still have to sell at what ever price you bought the ticket for on fan to fan.

Here are 3 pictures that tell you what the issue is right now.

Someone sells these tickets for face value on F2F. No one can cart these even though they are right on top of them when they show up for sale. They were scooped up by a bot before they even popped up on the map. No one has a chance at getting these.

Moments later on a secondary site

There are hundreds and hundreds of these tickets for sale right now for each show on these sites. All bought on F2F.

Well I hope people aren’t buying from other non Ticketmaster sites

how would that even work? Would this scalper give the login information for their TM account?

Regardless, your issue isn’t with fan to fan. It’s with bots and that’s an issue for any artists this day and age

It actually *is* with fan-to-fan. The scalper doesn't give the login to their TM account. Once they've purchased the ticket, they're able to use the data in the barcode to generate a totally valid, completely-indistinguishable-from-the-original barcode through another site/app. When someone buys through a 3rd party site, they're buying access to this barcode. And the only reason this loophole works (enabling scalpers to sell for thousands of dollars) is because TM is lazy. They took a lazy/obvious approach to implementing the rotating barcode tech in the first place, and despite someone having published the "barcode recipe" over a year ago, which is what opened the floodgates to scalpers on F2F, TM hasn't done anything to change the implementation and resecure the platform.

TM knows the exploit is out there; they have known for over a year. It's a choice to not do anything about it. So at this point, all F2F is really doing is preventing people who otherwise would actually get their unused tickets into the hands of other fans at face value from being able to do that.

That’s not what’s happening. The scalpers don’t generate barcodes. What’s happening is the scalpers have engineered a VPN connection where buyers receive a URL link to pop up the network access which then mirrors for the buyer the ticket barcode that appears in the seller account. The buyer is accessing the barcode from the seller, the scalper, through the VPN connection without actually having access to the account details.

Then how do you get barcodes when purchasing on these secondary sites months before TM gives us normal people access to one?

For the upcoming leg? The barcodes for the 10C tickets I purchased in the lottery have been visible in my account for some time. On past legs they’d only be visible 2-3 days prior? The policy has changed.

PJNB · April 15

No

100 Pacer said:

show previous quotes

PJNB said:

100 Pacer said:

EH14457 said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

For anyone voting yes how are you ok with being forced to sell your tickets to scalpers just so they can make a huge profit on your 10C seats?

I don't get how anyone can be ok with this system in its current state that has been following the ticket sales and where they end up after you sell them..

Isn't the whole point of f2f to cut scalpers out of the picture? I don't get what you're saying when they literally can't be sold for more than the original purchase price.

It's not a perfect system, but it's a hell of a lot better than the overall ticketmaster experience which allows scalpers.

Scalpers are buying up most of the tickets on fan
to fan before us humans are able to even see them on the map.

Have you been following fan to fan this tour?

I have not. They’re not touring anywhere near me.

whats different this tour? Did they remove the restrictions on pricing and allow tickets to be sold more than the purchase price?

No you still have to sell at what ever price you bought the ticket for on fan to fan.

Here are 3 pictures that tell you what the issue is right now.

Someone sells these tickets for face value on F2F. No one can cart these even though they are right on top of them when they show up for sale. They were scooped up by a bot before they even popped up on the map. No one has a chance at getting these.

Moments later on a secondary site

There are hundreds and hundreds of these tickets for sale right now for each show on these sites. All bought on F2F.

Well I hope people aren’t buying from other non Ticketmaster sites

how would that even work? Would this scalper give the login information for their TM account?

Regardless, your issue isn’t with fan to fan. It’s with bots and that’s an issue for any artists this day and age

It actually *is* with fan-to-fan. The scalper doesn't give the login to their TM account. Once they've purchased the ticket, they're able to use the data in the barcode to generate a totally valid, completely-indistinguishable-from-the-original barcode through another site/app. When someone buys through a 3rd party site, they're buying access to this barcode. And the only reason this loophole works (enabling scalpers to sell for thousands of dollars) is because TM is lazy. They took a lazy/obvious approach to implementing the rotating barcode tech in the first place, and despite someone having published the "barcode recipe" over a year ago, which is what opened the floodgates to scalpers on F2F, TM hasn't done anything to change the implementation and resecure the platform.

TM knows the exploit is out there; they have known for over a year. It's a choice to not do anything about it. So at this point, all F2F is really doing is preventing people who otherwise would actually get their unused tickets into the hands of other fans at face value from being able to do that.

That’s not what’s happening. The scalpers don’t generate barcodes. What’s happening is the scalpers have engineered a VPN connection where buyers receive a URL link to pop up the network access which then mirrors for the buyer the ticket barcode that appears in the seller account. The buyer is accessing the barcode from the seller, the scalper, through the VPN connection without actually having access to the account details.

Then how do you get barcodes when purchasing on these secondary sites months before TM gives us normal people access to one?

For the upcoming leg? The barcodes for the 10C tickets I purchased in the lottery have been visible in my account for some time. On past legs they’d only be visible 2-3 days prior? The policy has changed.

No for the previous tours. Secondary site purchasers were reporting getting barcodes immediately after they purchased tickets. I saw one that was days after 10C had their draw last year. These are years we did not get our barcodes a couple of days before our shows.

100 Pacer · April 15

PJNB said:

show previous quotes

100 Pacer said:

PJNB said:

100 Pacer said:

EH14457 said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

For anyone voting yes how are you ok with being forced to sell your tickets to scalpers just so they can make a huge profit on your 10C seats?

I don't get how anyone can be ok with this system in its current state that has been following the ticket sales and where they end up after you sell them..

Isn't the whole point of f2f to cut scalpers out of the picture? I don't get what you're saying when they literally can't be sold for more than the original purchase price.

It's not a perfect system, but it's a hell of a lot better than the overall ticketmaster experience which allows scalpers.

Scalpers are buying up most of the tickets on fan
to fan before us humans are able to even see them on the map.

Have you been following fan to fan this tour?

I have not. They’re not touring anywhere near me.

whats different this tour? Did they remove the restrictions on pricing and allow tickets to be sold more than the purchase price?

No you still have to sell at what ever price you bought the ticket for on fan to fan.

Here are 3 pictures that tell you what the issue is right now.

Someone sells these tickets for face value on F2F. No one can cart these even though they are right on top of them when they show up for sale. They were scooped up by a bot before they even popped up on the map. No one has a chance at getting these.

Moments later on a secondary site

There are hundreds and hundreds of these tickets for sale right now for each show on these sites. All bought on F2F.

Well I hope people aren’t buying from other non Ticketmaster sites

how would that even work? Would this scalper give the login information for their TM account?

Regardless, your issue isn’t with fan to fan. It’s with bots and that’s an issue for any artists this day and age

It actually *is* with fan-to-fan. The scalper doesn't give the login to their TM account. Once they've purchased the ticket, they're able to use the data in the barcode to generate a totally valid, completely-indistinguishable-from-the-original barcode through another site/app. When someone buys through a 3rd party site, they're buying access to this barcode. And the only reason this loophole works (enabling scalpers to sell for thousands of dollars) is because TM is lazy. They took a lazy/obvious approach to implementing the rotating barcode tech in the first place, and despite someone having published the "barcode recipe" over a year ago, which is what opened the floodgates to scalpers on F2F, TM hasn't done anything to change the implementation and resecure the platform.

TM knows the exploit is out there; they have known for over a year. It's a choice to not do anything about it. So at this point, all F2F is really doing is preventing people who otherwise would actually get their unused tickets into the hands of other fans at face value from being able to do that.

That’s not what’s happening. The scalpers don’t generate barcodes. What’s happening is the scalpers have engineered a VPN connection where buyers receive a URL link to pop up the network access which then mirrors for the buyer the ticket barcode that appears in the seller account. The buyer is accessing the barcode from the seller, the scalper, through the VPN connection without actually having access to the account details.

Then how do you get barcodes when purchasing on these secondary sites months before TM gives us normal people access to one?

For the upcoming leg? The barcodes for the 10C tickets I purchased in the lottery have been visible in my account for some time. On past legs they’d only be visible 2-3 days prior? The policy has changed.

No for the previous tours. Secondary site purchasers were reporting getting barcodes immediately after they purchased tickets. I saw one that was days after 10C had their draw last year. These are years we did not get our barcodes a couple of days before our shows.

Ahh gotcha. Perhaps they were purchased by season ticket holders and tossed back into the pool? Wouldn’t have the same restrictions? It certainly lines up with the lottery timeline as season ticket holders would have purchased then.

PJNB · April 15

No

100 Pacer said:

show previous quotes

PJNB said:

100 Pacer said:

PJNB said:

100 Pacer said:

EH14457 said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

For anyone voting yes how are you ok with being forced to sell your tickets to scalpers just so they can make a huge profit on your 10C seats?

I don't get how anyone can be ok with this system in its current state that has been following the ticket sales and where they end up after you sell them..

Isn't the whole point of f2f to cut scalpers out of the picture? I don't get what you're saying when they literally can't be sold for more than the original purchase price.

It's not a perfect system, but it's a hell of a lot better than the overall ticketmaster experience which allows scalpers.

Scalpers are buying up most of the tickets on fan
to fan before us humans are able to even see them on the map.

Have you been following fan to fan this tour?

I have not. They’re not touring anywhere near me.

whats different this tour? Did they remove the restrictions on pricing and allow tickets to be sold more than the purchase price?

No you still have to sell at what ever price you bought the ticket for on fan to fan.

Here are 3 pictures that tell you what the issue is right now.

Someone sells these tickets for face value on F2F. No one can cart these even though they are right on top of them when they show up for sale. They were scooped up by a bot before they even popped up on the map. No one has a chance at getting these.

Moments later on a secondary site

There are hundreds and hundreds of these tickets for sale right now for each show on these sites. All bought on F2F.

Well I hope people aren’t buying from other non Ticketmaster sites

how would that even work? Would this scalper give the login information for their TM account?

Regardless, your issue isn’t with fan to fan. It’s with bots and that’s an issue for any artists this day and age

It actually *is* with fan-to-fan. The scalper doesn't give the login to their TM account. Once they've purchased the ticket, they're able to use the data in the barcode to generate a totally valid, completely-indistinguishable-from-the-original barcode through another site/app. When someone buys through a 3rd party site, they're buying access to this barcode. And the only reason this loophole works (enabling scalpers to sell for thousands of dollars) is because TM is lazy. They took a lazy/obvious approach to implementing the rotating barcode tech in the first place, and despite someone having published the "barcode recipe" over a year ago, which is what opened the floodgates to scalpers on F2F, TM hasn't done anything to change the implementation and resecure the platform.

TM knows the exploit is out there; they have known for over a year. It's a choice to not do anything about it. So at this point, all F2F is really doing is preventing people who otherwise would actually get their unused tickets into the hands of other fans at face value from being able to do that.

That’s not what’s happening. The scalpers don’t generate barcodes. What’s happening is the scalpers have engineered a VPN connection where buyers receive a URL link to pop up the network access which then mirrors for the buyer the ticket barcode that appears in the seller account. The buyer is accessing the barcode from the seller, the scalper, through the VPN connection without actually having access to the account details.

Then how do you get barcodes when purchasing on these secondary sites months before TM gives us normal people access to one?

For the upcoming leg? The barcodes for the 10C tickets I purchased in the lottery have been visible in my account for some time. On past legs they’d only be visible 2-3 days prior? The policy has changed.

No for the previous tours. Secondary site purchasers were reporting getting barcodes immediately after they purchased tickets. I saw one that was days after 10C had their draw last year. These are years we did not get our barcodes a couple of days before our shows.

Ahh gotcha. Perhaps they were purchased by season ticket holders and tossed back into the pool? Wouldn’t have the same restrictions? It certainly lines up with the lottery timeline as season ticket holders would have purchased then.

This is how its been going the past 3 years with links and barcodes for all tickets being available on these sites right when you make the purchase.

Go Animal · April 15

No

Go Animal said:

You guys know how I feel.

This ain't 1995. There are so many ways to tour & tour big without Ticketmaster. And we don't need to go to big arenas anymore. They can play ANYWHERE, and we'll go.

They can play sheds, amphitheaters, ball parks, football stadiums (NFL, or NCAA), hell... State Parks! Red Rocks & Doheny State Beach are both state parks, and Missoula is a college football stadium that doesn't always use TM.

Ticketmaster gets a GINORMOUS cut of these sales. Take all that money, and invest it in a 3rd party like AXS or Tkx, sprinkled in with analog will call, and go it alone. Or just hire a data company to build a ticket distribution system tied into our member information with 10C. ANYTHING is better than what we have now.

And they don't need TM for festivals. Bottle Rock had a great set. Sea Hear Now was cathartic, despite it's ring rust. NOLA Jazz Fest in 2016 was epic. Bourbon & Beyond. Telluride. And they all pay VERY well.

MSG can operate outside of Ticketmaster, but if TM gets too rough with them? Dump 'em. I've seen Barclays Center run without TM. Or go back to Randall's Island. Or play Arthur Ashe Stadium in Queens. Or Yankee Stadium. Or Citi Field.

Screw TM/Live Nation, Screw AEG, Screw the whole system.

Thank you for coming to my TEDtalk.

Zod · April 15

No

yah, I'm not sure I like the ability to transfer to specific people, it just opens it for more scalping and abuse.

I wish they'd go back to 2018 where you were stuck with the tickets. No getting mediocre seats because a bunch of people ahead of you put in and didn't use the tickets. I've missed 2 or 3 bigger shows in 30 years of going to concerts. I'll gladly eat a pair once a decade to make them not transferable/sellable again

Sarava · April 15

Yes

F2F has been ok for the most part. I think it's weaknesses have been highlighted by this short tour with very limited tickets. So we're not seeing lots of tickets show up yet like in past tours. But there's still time.

PJNB · April 15

No

Sarava said:

F2F has been ok for the most part. I think its weaknesses have been highlighted by this short tour with very limited tickets. So we're not seeing lots of tickets show up yet like in past tours. But there's still time.

It’s weakness is us fans have very little chance to buy the tickets since scalpers are buying them before we even have a chance to see them on the map.

The reason you think there are not a lot of tickets showing up yet is because they are being bought instantly from the brokers and not hanging around long enough to be bought by us. This is causing a huge false impression of demand for these shows and when the brokers can’t sell these tickets anymore the flood gates will finally open for a lot of the shows this tour and tickets will finally be available on fan to fan for us to buy. The damage will be done by that time though for a lot of people that either spent crazy prices on premium tickets or went to the secondary sites since that is the only real place that they can by resold tickets at the moment.

Take a look at how many tickets are on the secondary sites. The majority of those were bought on F2F.

D-Rod · April 15

No

I liked F2F back in 2022 but I hate what it has morphed into.

Major changes need to happen.

KJ228171 · April 15

No

100 Pacer said:

show previous quotes

EH14457 said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

For anyone voting yes how are you ok with being forced to sell your tickets to scalpers just so they can make a huge profit on your 10C seats?

I don't get how anyone can be ok with this system in its current state that has been following the ticket sales and where they end up after you sell them..

Isn't the whole point of f2f to cut scalpers out of the picture? I don't get what you're saying when they literally can't be sold for more than the original purchase price.

It's not a perfect system, but it's a hell of a lot better than the overall ticketmaster experience which allows scalpers.

Scalpers are buying up most of the tickets on fan
to fan before us humans are able to even see them on the map.

Have you been following fan to fan this tour?

I have not. They’re not touring anywhere near me.

whats different this tour? Did they remove the restrictions on pricing and allow tickets to be sold more than the purchase price?

No you still have to sell at what ever price you bought the ticket for on fan to fan.

Here are 3 pictures that tell you what the issue is right now.

Someone sells these tickets for face value on F2F. No one can cart these even though they are right on top of them when they show up for sale. They were scooped up by a bot before they even popped up on the map. No one has a chance at getting these.

Moments later on a secondary site

There are hundreds and hundreds of these tickets for sale right now for each show on these sites. All bought on F2F.

Well I hope people aren’t buying from other non Ticketmaster sites

how would that even work? Would this scalper give the login information for their TM account?

Regardless, your issue isn’t with fan to fan. It’s with bots and that’s an issue for any artists this day and age

It actually *is* with fan-to-fan. The scalper doesn't give the login to their TM account. Once they've purchased the ticket, they're able to use the data in the barcode to generate a totally valid, completely-indistinguishable-from-the-original barcode through another site/app. When someone buys through a 3rd party site, they're buying access to this barcode. And the only reason this loophole works (enabling scalpers to sell for thousands of dollars) is because TM is lazy. They took a lazy/obvious approach to implementing the rotating barcode tech in the first place, and despite someone having published the "barcode recipe" over a year ago, which is what opened the floodgates to scalpers on F2F, TM hasn't done anything to change the implementation and resecure the platform.

TM knows the exploit is out there; they have known for over a year. It's a choice to not do anything about it. So at this point, all F2F is really doing is preventing people who otherwise would actually get their unused tickets into the hands of other fans at face value from being able to do that.

That’s not what’s happening. The scalpers don’t generate barcodes. What’s happening is the scalpers have engineered a VPN connection where buyers receive a URL link to pop up the network access which then mirrors for the buyer the ticket barcode that appears in the seller account. The buyer is accessing the barcode from the seller, the scalper, through the VPN connection without actually having access to the account details.

I don't think that's how it's going down but maybe wrong.

https://www.netizen.net/news/post/4751/hackers-reverse-engineer-ticketmaster-bypassing-anti-scalping-measures-on-non-transferable-tickets

"Scalpers’ ability to generate tickets from metadata created by Ticketmaster is particularly concerning. A hacking group recently claimed to have dumped thousands of barcodes for Taylor Swift’s Eras Tour. Ticketmaster’s SafeTix technology, which uses rotating barcodes, is supposed to protect tickets, but this system’s vulnerabilities have been exposed.

404 Media discovered this broker infrastructure after fans of DJ Fred Again expressed concerns about resale tickets bought from Secure.Tickets. A lawsuit filed by AXS against Secure.Tickets and other scalper services accused them of copyright infringement and creating “counterfeit” tickets. The lawsuit alleges that these services misrepresent themselves as using AXS’s proprietary technology while actually circumventing it.

Security researchers Conduition and David Pokora have both confirmed that the process to generate these tickets is not highly sophisticated and can be replicated by financially motivated individuals. Conduition’s blog post detailed how Ticketmaster’s SafeTix technology works and how it can be bypassed. They built a proof-of-concept app called “TicketGimp” to demonstrate this capability."

BSully · April 15

Yes

I see why so many people voted no.
I say yes, but the system needs some major upgrades.

F2F is still better than a direct after market that isn't policed IMO.

on2legs · April 15

No

Ten Club needs to hold Ticketmaster accountable for fixing the loopholes that scalpers have exploited to the detriment of real fans.

PJNB · April 15

No

BSully said:

I see why so many people voted no.
I say yes, but the system needs some major upgrades.

F2F is still better than a direct after market that isn't policed IMO.

You say yes but then you say it needs upgrades which means no....

In its current state it is a broken mess that allows scalpers to buy up all of the tickets for months prior to a tour.

I really don't get how anyone that has knowledge of whats happening can say YES to this. Makes no sense to me.

mace1229 · April 15

I had no idea that reverse barcode technology was a thing.

But wouldn't just adding a captcha eliminate the bots? Why do I spend 5 minutes debating if that last picture has the last 1/16" of a motorcycle handlebar or not for a completely useless website if they can't do it on TM? Seems like a very easy fix.

danofun · April 15

Yes

PJNB said:

show previous quotes

BSully said:

I see why so many people voted no.
I say yes, but the system needs some major upgrades.

F2F is still better than a direct after market that isn't policed IMO.

You say yes but then you say it needs upgrades which means no....

In its current state it is a broken mess that allows scalpers to buy up all of the tickets for months prior to a tour.

I really don't get how anyone that has knowledge of whats happening can say YES to this. Makes no sense to me.

With all due respect, it's easy to vote "No" to the question as posed and recommend a TM process that currently does not exist. But that's simply not realistic. Artists have to play within the confines of their current options, which are F2F vs fully transferable tickets. I'd argue that the poll question is a misleading one. It should have read, "On their next tour, should Pearl Jam use Fan to Fan or allow fully transferable tickets?" Currently most individuals here, including yourself, are voting for option #3, varying ideas that would all require a completely new system none of which are currently in existence.

God willing, the boys will tour again soon and additional options will be available. But currently, many believe F2F remains a better option than the only other available option, fully transferable tickets. And making tickets fully transferable does not solve the secondary market issue. A quick look at VividSeats and the 5/16 Pittsburgh show has ~250 seats listed. Last fall, the MSG shows had at least 3x that a few weeks out. Pittsburgh tickets are non-transferable, the NYC shows were fully transferable.

Earlier today, @stevee1982 scored a GA ticket to FL1 on F2F at face value. That victory is not even a possibility without F2F. Just like the fall, there will be plenty of more success stories as we get closer to these shows.

Enough of this, the world's greatest rock band is only a couple of weeks from hitting the road. Now get out there and enjoy the shows!

Should Pearl Jam use fan to fan again next tour in its current state?

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