Should Pearl Jam use fan to fan again next tour in its current state?

danofun · April 14

Yes

PJNB said:

Again all of the yeses are ok with bots scooping up the majority of the tickets on fan to fan? That is what a yes is implying in its current state.

I am a bit baffled that anyone would vote yes to be honest especially those that have seen it happen in real time with secondary sites minutes later posting the seats.

Calls for will-call, release to 10C only, etc. are calls for a completely different, currently unimplemented TM system. That simply is not realistic. Realistic options are zero transfer restrictions or the currently implemented F2F. Currently, we at least have a chance of scoring face value tickets! Be careful what you wish for...

I think many high number 10C members put in for more shows than they plan to attend with the hopes of scoring GA. If they don’t, they try and use those seats as trade bait knowing they can release them to F2F is they don’t have any luck. I get the move, but it’s ultimately feeding the secondary market.

Most of PJs ticket control is during the original 10C sale. And they do a phenomenal job of getting tickets in the REAL fans hands! We’re the one who mess it up. Restoring priority show selection and re-adding a GA only option are realistic hopes and would go a long way in keeping fans from feeding the secondary market.

drfox · April 14

No

I much preferred the old call at the box office to collect method

gotthebottle · April 14

No

N. O.

Chrrie · April 14

No

Remove transfer restriction. Then actual demand and market value for the majority of tickets won't be obfuscated behind a "sold out" map on Ticketmaster, PJ Premium ticket prices, and/or insane prices on resale sites. And we can trade and sell amongst each other. Also gives people the opportunity to sell less desirable tickets below face value that they otherwise might have to eat the cost of entirely.
Enforce not selling Ten Club tickets above face value. Create a Ticket Exchange section on this forum and advertise it to people who wouldn't otherwise come here other than to buy/sell/trade tickets. It's not intuitive to people who don't participate that the "Given to Fly" section is often used for this and is one of the reasons why Facebook has a much wider audience despite the fact that the vast majority of legit users over there are also Ten Club members. Mention it in the newsletters during tour season. The Ten Club should also have the authority to enforce their own policy by being able to verify that a particular subset of tickets were from the fan club lottery and then if they find them on Vivid/TickPick/Stubhub you cancel or will call them, and terminate memberships. Members should self-police as well.

Lost In Ohio · April 14

JojoRice said:

I like F2F but it needs some major tweaks....
-Allow the selling of tickets below face value if desired by the seller
-When trying to coordinate a drop/re-sell tickets to a specific fan, let the sell link between the seller and buyer have about a 5 minute buffer before the tickets are available to everyone else.

They'd never allow that second one, as it opens up to scalpers.

What'd might be worth looking at: Allow ticket transfers via NFC. If the other person's phone is in close proximity, shouldn't they be allowed the ticket?

EH14457 · April 14

No

F2F tickets being flippable (and transferable with the right tech) is 100% a preventable problem for TM. They just don't care. If they refactored their barcode generation to actually make the tickets non-reproducible, it would cut out the brokers and we'd be good. If they did that I'd be for F2F all day everyday; the system actually worked to keep the best seats in the hands of fans without markup for a couple of tours. In it's current form, we'd all be better off if it didn't exist. The competition for tickets is basically the same as it was before F2F (brokers try to buy as much as they can as quickly as they can), except people who want to get their tickets into the hands of other fans at face value (via transfer) just can't. It's a broken system.

jlindgren2 · April 14

Yes

PJNB said:

For anyone voting yes how are you ok with being forced to sell your tickets to scalpers just so they can make a huge profit on your 10C seats?

I don't get how anyone can be ok with this system in its current state that has been following the ticket sales and where they end up after you sell them..

Isn't the whole point of f2f to cut scalpers out of the picture? I don't get what you're saying when they literally can't be sold for more than the original purchase price.

It's not a perfect system, but it's a hell of a lot better than the overall ticketmaster experience which allows scalpers.

PJNB · April 14

No

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

For anyone voting yes how are you ok with being forced to sell your tickets to scalpers just so they can make a huge profit on your 10C seats?

I don't get how anyone can be ok with this system in its current state that has been following the ticket sales and where they end up after you sell them..

Isn't the whole point of f2f to cut scalpers out of the picture? I don't get what you're saying when they literally can't be sold for more than the original purchase price.

It's not a perfect system, but it's a hell of a lot better than the overall ticketmaster experience which allows scalpers.

Scalpers are buying up most of the tickets on fan
to fan before us humans are able to even see them on the map.

Have you been following fan to fan this tour?

Hurls15 · April 14

No

"In it's current state" are the operative words. Sadly, this iteration of fan to fan is almost useless. The addition of link sharing has promise, but even that has not worked as intended. Fan to fan worked very well for the 2022 and 2023 tours. 2024 saw it begin to slide but nowhere close to the problem it is now.

Definitely some good suggestions here on how to improve it. Any fix needs multiple changes to happen. There isn't a silver bullet (despite the joy I would get seeing all fan club tix listed on resale sites cancelled and resold to members with no ability to resell). That also means looking at fan club member behaviour too, and not just the ticket resellers who have memberships and pose as fans. These short tours have created an opportunity for members (especially those with average to low fan club numbers) to put in for all shows and then hold those tickets like they are in a card game, trying to trade for the shows they actually intend on attending. I honestly wonder how many tickets are being held right now by fan club members who already have tix to a show or have no intention of attending that particular show. Or those reselling a pair or two at marked up prices in order to pay for the shows they do plan to attend.

There is a lot of blame to go around here, with the ticket bots being far and away the biggest problem.

The good news is that for those with patience, there are likely ticket options on the day of.

PJNB · April 14

No

Hurls15 said:

"In it's current state" are the operative words. Sadly, this iteration of fan to fan is almost useless. The addition of link sharing has promise, but even that has not worked as intended. Fan to fan worked very well for the 2022 and 2023 tours. 2024 saw it begin to slide but nowhere close to the problem it is now.

Definitely some good suggestions here on how to improve it. Any fix needs multiple changes to happen. There isn't a silver bullet (despite the joy I would get seeing all fan club tix listed on resale sites cancelled and resold to members with no ability to resell). That also means looking at fan club member behaviour too, and not just the ticket resellers who have memberships and pose as fans. These short tours have created an opportunity for members (especially those with average to low fan club numbers) to put in for all shows and then hold those tickets like they are in a card game, trying to trade for the shows they actually intend on attending. I honestly wonder how many tickets are being held right now by fan club members who already have tix to a show or have no intention of attending that particular show. Or those reselling a pair or two at marked up prices in order to pay for the shows they do plan to attend.

There is a lot of blame to go around here, with the ticket bots being far and away the biggest problem.

The good news is that for those with patience, there are likely ticket options on the day of.

Thats the good news for those with patience for sure.

The bad news is the casuals that are just going to a TM event page and seeing whats available all they see is Premiums up and pay the inflated price. TM and PJ win with F2F being scooped up right away.

Go Animal · April 14

No

You guys know how I feel.

john.riedlz · April 14

No

I want the F2F of 22 and 23. This year sucks.

PJNB · April 14

No

john.riedlz said:

I want the F2F of 22 and 23. This year sucks.

2024 was brutal too. Not this bad but pretty close.

jlindgren2 · April 14

Yes

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

For anyone voting yes how are you ok with being forced to sell your tickets to scalpers just so they can make a huge profit on your 10C seats?

I don't get how anyone can be ok with this system in its current state that has been following the ticket sales and where they end up after you sell them..

Isn't the whole point of f2f to cut scalpers out of the picture? I don't get what you're saying when they literally can't be sold for more than the original purchase price.

It's not a perfect system, but it's a hell of a lot better than the overall ticketmaster experience which allows scalpers.

Scalpers are buying up most of the tickets on fan
to fan before us humans are able to even see them on the map.

Have you been following fan to fan this tour?

I have not. They’re not touring anywhere near me.

whats different this tour? Did they remove the restrictions on pricing and allow tickets to be sold more than the purchase price?

john.riedlz · April 14

No

PJNB said:

john.riedlz said:

I want the F2F of 22 and 23. This year sucks.

2024 was brutal too. Not this bad but pretty close.

True, but I’d take last year over the full-on F2B system we’ve got going now.

JimmyV · April 14

No

Nice idea but its time has passed. I don't know what the best alternative is, though.

PJNB · April 14

No

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

For anyone voting yes how are you ok with being forced to sell your tickets to scalpers just so they can make a huge profit on your 10C seats?

I don't get how anyone can be ok with this system in its current state that has been following the ticket sales and where they end up after you sell them..

Isn't the whole point of f2f to cut scalpers out of the picture? I don't get what you're saying when they literally can't be sold for more than the original purchase price.

It's not a perfect system, but it's a hell of a lot better than the overall ticketmaster experience which allows scalpers.

Scalpers are buying up most of the tickets on fan
to fan before us humans are able to even see them on the map.

Have you been following fan to fan this tour?

I have not. They’re not touring anywhere near me.

whats different this tour? Did they remove the restrictions on pricing and allow tickets to be sold more than the purchase price?

No you still have to sell at what ever price you bought the ticket for on fan to fan.

Here are 3 pictures that tell you what the issue is right now.

Someone sells these tickets for face value on F2F. No one can cart these even though they are right on top of them when they show up for sale. They were scooped up by a bot before they even popped up on the map. No one has a chance at getting these.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021252/uploads/editor/7j/k8q40dxy4xcb.png

Moments later on a secondary site

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021252/uploads/editor/88/nb5l5u918rqd.png

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021252/uploads/editor/1q/d9eldyxzbgek.png

There are hundreds and hundreds of these tickets for sale right now for each show on these sites. All bought on F2F.

jlindgren2 · April 15

Yes

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

For anyone voting yes how are you ok with being forced to sell your tickets to scalpers just so they can make a huge profit on your 10C seats?

I don't get how anyone can be ok with this system in its current state that has been following the ticket sales and where they end up after you sell them..

Isn't the whole point of f2f to cut scalpers out of the picture? I don't get what you're saying when they literally can't be sold for more than the original purchase price.

It's not a perfect system, but it's a hell of a lot better than the overall ticketmaster experience which allows scalpers.

Scalpers are buying up most of the tickets on fan
to fan before us humans are able to even see them on the map.

Have you been following fan to fan this tour?

I have not. They’re not touring anywhere near me.

whats different this tour? Did they remove the restrictions on pricing and allow tickets to be sold more than the purchase price?

No you still have to sell at what ever price you bought the ticket for on fan to fan.

Here are 3 pictures that tell you what the issue is right now.

Someone sells these tickets for face value on F2F. No one can cart these even though they are right on top of them when they show up for sale. They were scooped up by a bot before they even popped up on the map. No one has a chance at getting these.

Moments later on a secondary site

There are hundreds and hundreds of these tickets for sale right now for each show on these sites. All bought on F2F.

Well I hope people aren’t buying from other non Ticketmaster sites

how would that even work? Would this scalper give the login information for their TM account?

Regardless, your issue isn’t with fan to fan. It’s with bots and that’s an issue for any artists this day and age. Getting rid of f2f would
make this issue even worse

PJNB · April 15

No

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

For anyone voting yes how are you ok with being forced to sell your tickets to scalpers just so they can make a huge profit on your 10C seats?

I don't get how anyone can be ok with this system in its current state that has been following the ticket sales and where they end up after you sell them..

Isn't the whole point of f2f to cut scalpers out of the picture? I don't get what you're saying when they literally can't be sold for more than the original purchase price.

It's not a perfect system, but it's a hell of a lot better than the overall ticketmaster experience which allows scalpers.

Scalpers are buying up most of the tickets on fan
to fan before us humans are able to even see them on the map.

Have you been following fan to fan this tour?

I have not. They’re not touring anywhere near me.

whats different this tour? Did they remove the restrictions on pricing and allow tickets to be sold more than the purchase price?

No you still have to sell at what ever price you bought the ticket for on fan to fan.

Here are 3 pictures that tell you what the issue is right now.

Someone sells these tickets for face value on F2F. No one can cart these even though they are right on top of them when they show up for sale. They were scooped up by a bot before they even popped up on the map. No one has a chance at getting these.

Moments later on a secondary site

There are hundreds and hundreds of these tickets for sale right now for each show on these sites. All bought on F2F.

Well I hope people aren’t buying from other non Ticketmaster sites

how would that even work? Would this scalper give the login information for their TM account?

Regardless, your issue isn’t with fan to fan. It’s with bots and that’s an issue for any artists this day and age

You hope? This is the 4th tour that they have been buying these tickets from the other sites.

My issue is with fan to fan. I am being forced to sell my tickets if I need to on their platform just so a bot can buy them and someone else can make a ton of money off my seats. Adding insult to injury this is what we get to read every time we go to an event page.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021252/uploads/editor/b5/lux47kfzpsty.png

They say they want to give fans not scalpers the best chance to buy tickets. They have done the exact opposite and by forcing us into this system.

EH14457 · April 15

No

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

jlindgren2 said:

PJNB said:

For anyone voting yes how are you ok with being forced to sell your tickets to scalpers just so they can make a huge profit on your 10C seats?

I don't get how anyone can be ok with this system in its current state that has been following the ticket sales and where they end up after you sell them..

Isn't the whole point of f2f to cut scalpers out of the picture? I don't get what you're saying when they literally can't be sold for more than the original purchase price.

It's not a perfect system, but it's a hell of a lot better than the overall ticketmaster experience which allows scalpers.

Scalpers are buying up most of the tickets on fan
to fan before us humans are able to even see them on the map.

Have you been following fan to fan this tour?

I have not. They’re not touring anywhere near me.

whats different this tour? Did they remove the restrictions on pricing and allow tickets to be sold more than the purchase price?

No you still have to sell at what ever price you bought the ticket for on fan to fan.

Here are 3 pictures that tell you what the issue is right now.

Someone sells these tickets for face value on F2F. No one can cart these even though they are right on top of them when they show up for sale. They were scooped up by a bot before they even popped up on the map. No one has a chance at getting these.

Moments later on a secondary site

There are hundreds and hundreds of these tickets for sale right now for each show on these sites. All bought on F2F.

Well I hope people aren’t buying from other non Ticketmaster sites

how would that even work? Would this scalper give the login information for their TM account?

Regardless, your issue isn’t with fan to fan. It’s with bots and that’s an issue for any artists this day and age

It actually *is* with fan-to-fan. The scalper doesn't give the login to their TM account. Once they've purchased the ticket, they're able to use the data in the barcode to generate a totally valid, completely-indistinguishable-from-the-original barcode through another site/app. When someone buys through a 3rd party site, they're buying access to this barcode. And the only reason this loophole works (enabling scalpers to sell for thousands of dollars) is because TM is lazy. They took a lazy/obvious approach to implementing the rotating barcode tech in the first place, and despite someone having published the "barcode recipe" over a year ago, which is what opened the floodgates to scalpers on F2F, TM hasn't done anything to change the implementation and resecure the platform.

TM knows the exploit is out there; they have known for over a year. It's a choice to not do anything about it. So at this point, all F2F is really doing is preventing people who otherwise would actually get their unused tickets into the hands of other fans at face value from being able to do that.

Should Pearl Jam use fan to fan again next tour in its current state?

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